Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

My sister is trying to convince me that Obama wants to force end of life on people...

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 11:40 AM
Original message
My sister is trying to convince me that Obama wants to force end of life on people...
Edited on Sat Aug-08-09 11:54 AM by cynatnite
A bit of background...Our Dad died from cancer. Since he had no will his family challenged us in court over everything. They tried to take everything they could and the heartache they caused us can't be measured. Had he gotten this kind of counseling beforehand, it would have prevented much of what they did to us.

Here is what I emailed her...

From pages 425 and 426...

Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), the
22 term advance care planning consultation means a con23
sultation between the individual and a practitioner
de24
scribed in paragraph (2) regarding advance care planning,
25 if, subject to paragraph (3), the individual involved has
1 not had such a consultation within the last 5 years. Such
2 consultation shall include the following:
3 (A) An explanation by the practitioner of ad4
vance care planning, including key questions and
5 considerations, important steps, and suggested peo6
ple to talk to.
7 (B) An explanation by the practitioner of ad8
vance directives, including living wills and durable
9 powers of attorney, and their uses.

10 (C) An explanation by the practitioner of the
11 role and responsibilities of a health care proxy.
12 (D) The provision by the practitioner of a list
13 of national and State-specific resources to assist con14
sumers and their families with advance care plan15
ning
, including the national toll-free hotline, the ad16
vance care planning clearinghouses, and State legal
17 service organizations (including those funded
18 through the Older Americans Act of 1965).
19 (E) An explanation by the practitioner of the
20 continuum of end-of-life services and supports avail21
able, including palliative care and hospice, and bene22
fits for such services and supports that are available
23 under this title.


1 (F)(i) 2 orders regarding life sustaining treatment or similar
3 orders, which shall include
4 (I) the reasons why the development of
5 such an order is beneficial to the individual and
6 the individuals family and the reasons why
7 such an order should be updated periodically as
8 the health of the individual changes;
9 (II) the information needed for an indi10
vidual or legal surrogate to make informed deci11
sions regarding the completion of such an
12 order; and
13 (III) the identification of resources that
14 an individual may use to determine the require15
ments of the State in which such individual re16
sides so that the treatment wishes of that indi17
vidual will be carried out
if the individual is un18
able to communicate those wishes, including re19
quirements regarding the designation of a sur20
rogate decisionmaker (also known as a health
21 care proxy).

****

Now, this is what that says about end of life arrangements. This is what Dad should have had before he died. It would have saved us all the heartache that the Dad's family caused us and Mom. This is about helping families make sure that their loved ones wishes are carried out. Its about living wills and hospices. The radical right called hospices concentration camps when Terri Schiavo was alive and they were fighting against her wishes.

Nowhere does it say that people are going to be forced into anything. Anyone who says this is either a liar or has not read this particular bill.

Now, Sandy, I always thought you were a reasonable person who didnt buy into everything she reads and hears. This is one time youve got to stop and think. No one is going to go around killing off the old and infirmed. Its insane and ill-informed to think so.

This is just about making sure that families get the counseling and help they need when it comes to end of life decisions. There is no forcing anyone into anything.

Now, please, dont fall for the fear mongering and the tactics designed to keep you and your family from having some kind of affordable coverage. The health insurance companies want you to believe this bullshit and the politicians in their pockets will keep on spewing this garbage to keep you afraid. Dont let them win.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
ingac70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
1. You sister is stupid.
Tell her we are going after the stupid first. :evilgrin:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kevinbgoode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
2. You might explain to her that CONSERVATIVES made many of those things
necessary - and put it on full public display with their Terri Schiavo demands.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
3. Karen Ann Quinlen
This proposal is in place to ensure that you control the way you die, not government bureaucrats (well, hospital administrators and judges)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
billyoc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
4. Just tell her that a Republican put that stuff in the bill.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
5. All this does is order Medicare to pay doctors for these consultations
Nobody is required to have a consultation, and nobody is required to sign anything. But if you want to have a discussion about this with your doctor, Medicare will pay her for her time.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/8/7/763196/-This-is-... ;-This-is-a-Health-Care-Proxy



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Thanks for the link! n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
notadmblnd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
6. Tell her to go back to oiling her gun and watching Fox News.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Inspired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
8. I've heard the same shit from people too. I had to walk away because I thought I would explode!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
9. Where are people hearing this? Several of my "senior" friends have reported it.
They mention Hannity, when asked. Where's Rupert getting the idea? The same people who can afford to advertise on Hannity -- Viagra, etc?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ejpoeta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #9
22. they are hearing it from faux news and limbaugh etc....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
10. Snopes.com: "FALSE"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
11. (shrug) Then your sister is either a liar or an idiot....
You're in a better person to judge than I am.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
customerserviceguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
12. I've seen people fight over an estate
That should have been your cue to have NOTHING to do with her for the rest of your life. By continuing in a relationship with such an irrational person, you are enabling her to continue to act like an idiot.

At some point, you are responsible for people driving you crazy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. Her and I were not fighting over our Dad's estate...
It was his family that came after our mom and us.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ima_sinnic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
13. somebody (Obama?) should be out in force explaining these things
the same way Obama's campaign had the rumor-squelching team ready very quickly.
I can't believe that he and other Democrats are just leaving these stupid rumors and misrepresentations unanswered. If "the people" don't go for their plan, that might be the reason why. They aren't explaining its provisions adequately but letting the rumors build and grow like a cancer that will kill it. The more they let them fester and grow, the more disgusted I become.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cleverusername Donating Member (93 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
14. Unfounded fear
Living wills and medical power of attorney have no effect on disposition of property after death. Those documents are for making decisions for an incapacitated person (without going to court). You can get forms for these documents online or from your health care providers.

To prevent the heartache that your family suffered, a written will with a no contest clause is necessary. Laws vary by state. Consult an attorney in your jurisdiction. You mother should execute a will to avoid problems between you, your sister and other family members.

Your sister's fears are unfounded. If she doesn't want to sign a medical power of attorney or living will, then she doesn't have to sign one. Her children will have to get court approval to make medical decisions for her. The documents are to avoid court.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. I know that, but if a conversation had taken place...
a will, among other things, would have been done. I truly believe that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #14
23. Living Wills are a GOOD THING!!!
These documents ALLOW AMERICANS to answer the question, "Whose Life Is It Anyway?" ;-) Avoidance of death is deeply entrenched in the American psyche, despite its inevitability. A bit of prodding is necessary to foster these uncomfortable discussions. They can save a world of hurt. ALL OF MY NEAR AND DEAR ONES have been listeners as I've ranted about the "What Ifs" of end of life decisions. Discussion and documentation are KEY in preventing EXPLOITATION. I must tell you, watching this train wreck from afar... (((FACEPALM)))

:crazy: :wow: :freak: :wow: :crazy:


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
holiday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
17. there is a rachael maddow video clip
talking about this and she points out this legislation has been brought up before by 2 republicans lol
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
18. This is ALL ABOUT FORCING
insuranace companies to cover these consulatations.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. Actually, it's about ensuring that MEDICARE pays for them
The provision does not affect insurance companies.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
zoff Donating Member (302 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
19. Does she even have any health insurance?
But she is going to believe what she wants. Some of the most seemingly kind and reasonable people are just wired that way. Hoping this reform stuff happens, you will have your "I told you so" moment.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
20. You're in a very difficult position...
after the trauma you and your sister went through in your father's last months, she has somehow latched on to this meme. Instead of realizing that this provision would have helped avoid the problems, she seems to believe it would have encouraged euthanization, and it will be very difficult to get her to realize the truth.

She's not entirely to blame for thinking this way-- our brains are wired to accept some weird ideas when under stress.

Not being a trained counselor, or knowing anything more about the situation than you've written here, I'd suggest you go slow and not be too hard on her for now. Just gently keep alive the idea that the provision would have helped, not hurt, and let her work her way through it.

It's frustrating and painful, but this too shall pass.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CoffinEd Donating Member (248 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
21. Choice?
Interesting how many of the anti-health care reform protesters are always screaming about the government taking away their right to choose, but when choice is offered to them as in the case of a public option or making available *optional* end of life consultations as part of the coverage, they choose to demonize these things as yet another attempt by the evil Obama administration to impose its will on them.

And yes, I am aware that actual health care reform doesn't have anything to do with why they are protesting. Still, their unruly behavior and determination to remain willfully uninformed is both silly and sad at the same time.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dorkulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
25. Send her the Politifact debunking
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009... /

And then prepare for her to tell you how they're liberal, biased and "in the tank" etc.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
abumbyanyothername Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
26. Killing the old and the infirm
. . . No one is going to go around killing off the old and infirmed. . . .


Actually the Republic "pay to play" plan is designed to do exactly that to the POOR old and infirmed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tulio Donating Member (51 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
27. Honestly, the idea is so preposterous that to even consider
it as a valid point of discussion is unreasonable. No reasonable person would actually entertain this notion. It is the worst kind of rumor mongering. Nonsense!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Jul 25th 2014, 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC