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Are_grits_groceries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 06:42 PM
Original message
Breaking: Violence at Tampa health care forum
Edited on Thu Aug-06-09 06:45 PM by Are_grits_groceries
Tampa, Florida - Angry protesters and strong supporters are clashing inside and all around a health care reform town hall meeting in Downtown Tampa. The meeting which was scheduled to begin at 6:00 at the Children's Board of Hillsborough County drew hundreds of people who quickly began to overwhelm staff and event organizers at the front entrance.

As the building filled to capacity, angry protesters stuck outside began to scream, yell, and chant. At one point, those trying to get inside began banging on windows as Tampa Police officers quickly spread out guarding all entrances.

10 Connects photojournalist Kevin Carlson, currently inside the meeting reports at least one fist fight breaking out inside. Some other journalists remain outside.

Democratic Congresswoman Kathy Castor and State Representative Betty Reed were hosting the event.

UPDATE 7:13pm

Police on bullhorns are trying to break-up the crowd outside the building on 1002 E. Palm Ave.

Many in the crowd are refusing to go.

UPDATE 7:26pm

The health care forum has ended before it started. People inside are being told to go home.

http://www.wtsp.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=11108...

Somebody better get a handle on things now! Ending these is just as good as the hollering for the RW.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
1. I'm so proud of my local idiots.
*sniff* I'm just beaming over here.
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Xenotime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #1
94. These wingnuts need to be contained.
Why wasn't there some sort of protection so those trying to sabotage the meeting would be kept away?!?
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
2. This will be touted as a "victory" by the Hooters.
Just watch.
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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
3. Inevitable. Awful, but inevitable. These people are nuts. Frightening.
Thanks for the post. Following up for more info.
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Sen. Walter Sobchak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
4. Simple then, prosecute for inciting a riot.
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man4allcats Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #4
38. Much as I regret to say it,
unless as you suggest the authorities step in and start arresting these people for such obvious disturbances, fighting fire with fire will very soon become the only option. I've never been one to favor busting heads, but if someone punches me in the nose they better damn well make sure they knock me out. If I get up, I won't be the only one bleeding.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 06:41 AM
Response to Reply #38
84. Let me tell you how California Assembly member Lori Saldaa handled the Minutemen in March
Edited on Fri Aug-07-09 06:42 AM by slackmaster
At an open house meeting she held at her downtown San Diego office, which I attended.

She knew the Minutemen were going to show up with protest signs, intent on disrupting her meeting.

Lori arrived escorted by five California Highway Patrol cars and ten uniformed, armed CHP officers.

The CHP officers simply did not allow the dozen or so protesters who showed up to enter the building. They were free to hold their protest on the sidewalk outside. They hung around for about 30 minutes, got bored because they weren't getting any attention, and left.



No disruption, no arrests, no violence, no problem.
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stlsaxman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 07:39 AM
Response to Reply #84
87. Sounds like a plan! and it might have worked last year...
but these mobs today will stay and scream and shout and bang on windows until the media shows up.

now that "Dick Army Corp." is endorsing and funding it all, we're in a different age of political discourse- an age of "no discourse".

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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #38
93. Just heard on news: 6 arrested.
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #38
105. So true ~ Love your last sentence. nt
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Ron Green Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
5. Florida again. I'm keepin' track.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #5
16. Do let us know the results of your study
And remember that there are still some sane people in Florida, many DUers among them.
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
6. This is the state of political discourse in America.
These right wingers are so degenerate that they'd rather resort to violence because they can't make a good case against extending health care coverage to more Americans.
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zanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #6
126. We have to find a way to neuter them without using their methods.
Once we start acting like them, we lose our claim on civility. For people like me, it would be very hard not to yell back. Let's start gathering up all the level-headed, patient people we know and send them to these town hall meetings!
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Kievan Rus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
7. Why don't the cops arrest these assholes?
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. If those were liberals doing that to republicans, they would have been
Edited on Thu Aug-06-09 06:48 PM by fascisthunter
this is a perfect example of how far to the right America has gone.
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zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 06:53 PM
Original message
It would be Chicago 1968 all over again ...
as it is now, the only video from the "news" outlets would be the liberal/dem hitting back ... not the Repuke throwing the first, second, third, fourth, fifth, etc. punches ...
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liberalmuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #12
36. We're not far right at all. It's just that...
Edited on Thu Aug-06-09 07:09 PM by liberalmuse
Right wing degenerates are attracted to authoritarian positions. They love power, which explains why there are so many asshole cops running about (I'm not saying all cops are assholes, but a good number of them are). They will not taze or hit those who share their ideals. I can't say that I've met very many people in positions of power and/or wealth who love President Obama, most especially cops. The truth is, there are more Americans on our side, but it seems that the fascists get front-and-center stage in this game.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #36
41. better said... I was way too general
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #36
74. Agreed. Very well said. nt
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Patiod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #12
92. deleed post
Edited on Fri Aug-07-09 09:00 AM by Patiod
Liberal muse made my point better and earlier.....
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
8. Sickening..
Kathy Castor is so calm and nice. This really angers me.

Someone needs to send this to Rachel's show.
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dgibby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #8
37. Already done, Keith and Big Eddie, too. n/t
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
9. it's time these thugs get arrested
Edited on Thu Aug-06-09 06:48 PM by fascisthunter
they are disrupting and denying dialogue. Those who were there to speak their minds and to listen are being denied those rights. And we know how these crowds of disrupters is being organized...
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #9
66. I agree that anyone who violates a law should be arrested
Edited on Thu Aug-06-09 09:22 PM by slackmaster
I believe it is possible to keep meetings orderly by setting strict ground rules and enforcing them. Someone has to have the authority to order someone to leave a venue for violating the ground rules. If a person refuses to comply with a lawful order to leave, then call the cops.

And we know how these crowds of disrupters is being organized...

Yes, legally.

ETA I go to public meetings pretty often. Ones that are run well are able to maintain order. Unfortunately a lot of people don't understand the rules of order or how to enforce them.

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Xenotime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #9
95. 100% agree.
They have no right to sabotage the democratic process.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
10. Recommending to call attention to it.
Not because I approve of the violence.

It needs to be seen.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. I agree.
Recommended.
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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Me, too.
My daughter lives in the Tampa area. And she is a progressive. These people would kill her if they had the chance, and they are being whipped into a frenzy.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Good idea. Done.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. Yes
Spread the news far and wide.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #10
20. ok
Wow! It's the Revolt of the Dumbasses. What do they hope to gain from it?
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Jester Messiah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #20
34. Here's hoping it snaps the Blue Dogs out of their haze...
A strong message needs to be sent that Democratic legislators will not be intimidated by mobs.
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Xicano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
13. We need 100 counter protesters with bull horns shouting "You Lost Get Over It!"
n/t
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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. That won't stop them from violence.
There will be blood. This is outrageous. Somebody tell Rush and Fox to stop it, now. This is out of hand.
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Xicano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Violence will only work against them.
n/t
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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #21
27. Yes, seems to me we had some of that lesson in the '60s.
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Xenotime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #21
96. It might be time to start tazering those who are disruptive.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #13
65. An organized counter-disruption would be an appropriate response to an organized disruption
As long as nobody violates any laws.
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #13
69. or start shouting YES WE CAN YES WE CAN.
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dana_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #69
117. USA! USA! USA!
Mike Malloy suggested that one.
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Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
17. I hope some teabaggers got their ass kicked
..... they are thugs sent there by the insurance companies. This is not about free speech but
the stopping of speech that the right does not approve of.


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marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
22. These people make it a little easier to see how Germany descended into Naziism.
n/t
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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #22
76. Mike Malloy read frm a reporter's book on when he covered the 1992
RNC Convention in Houston. They had young people doing this shit back then, at both the convention and outside nearby where the DNC had leaders gathered to comment on the RNC;s convention. The US reporters didn't have the nerve to stand up to them. The European reporters were not amused by what they saw. Apparently, they knew their history very well and in detail.

The reporter's name was Steven something. I'll look for it on the MM thread or website.
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johnfunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
23. Teabaggers shut down our institutions of democracy. I hope activists took photos of the stooges.
These people need to be outed by name.
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lpbk2713 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
24. Related thread ...



Link: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


They targeted this event for disruption and apparently it went as they planned.


Fuck these idiots.


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AndrewJacksonFaction Donating Member (471 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #24
77. Thank you for the link.
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lpbk2713 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #77
78. I knew when I saw it earlier there would be trouble.



I checked their links and it led to others. The local Tampa news at eleven still didn't know or didn't
want to admit these agitators were bussed in with the single purpose to disrupt the entire event.


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AndrewJacksonFaction Donating Member (471 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #78
80. Gotta be careful saying they were bused, unless we have good evidence.
I kew there was going to be trouble as well, that is why I posted the notice of it. It also appears LimpBalls made a mention of it as well, though I don't know if that was a driving factor, or if it was just the internet AstroTurf.
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Salviati Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
25. It would be a good idea to go and post constructively in the articles comments section
or at least reccomend the posts that are worthy. One can reccomend comments at the linked article without needing to log in to thier site.
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mikelgb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
26. jeez, what took so long?
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
28. rw scum you just woke up OUR BASE ..LOL
Edited on Thu Aug-06-09 08:18 PM by proud patriot
I'm so looking forward to our healthcare forum
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
29. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Jester Messiah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
30. This thing is gonna get out of control.
Strike that, it is getting out of control. Law enforcement, both state and federal, needs to start applying the brakes, or it's going to get bloody.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
31. Apparently Rush Limbaugh was encouraging folks to go to that rally.
"Posted Aug 6, 2009 2:44 PM
Julia
Rush just talked about this Kathy Castor event tonight on his show!! Evidently they hired some union types as security to surround her I believe. I only caught part of it. I'm trying to cancel my obligation for tonight so I can attend. The more the better. I do know the Tampa Tea party is also attending."

http://www.meetup.com/S-Pinellas-9-12-Patriots/calendar... /
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Xenotime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #31
97. Then he needs to be charged.
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BlueIdaho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
32. Anarchy
brought to you by the republican party and the health insurance industry.
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #32
125. The Health Insurance Industry loves the bill. Thet helped write it, after all.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
33. Is there any way we can prevent "them"....
...from enjoying ANY of the benefits of the proposed reforms? :shrug:
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moonbatmax Donating Member (290 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 03:17 AM
Response to Reply #33
81. No, that would be a BIG mistake!
I know it seems the natural thing to punish these people
by denying them the benefits they're trying so hard to kill,
but consider: how better to show them the error of their ways,
than to let them enjoy those selfsame benefits, and realize
that maybe they weren't such a bad idea after all?

I know, I know, we're going to have a LOT of those Joe Wingnuts out
there who drink clean water because of some bureaucrat, etc. etc.
and never make the connection. Even so, better to let them enjoy
those benefits, and maybe change their own minds, than give them
one more excuse to oppose them.
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T Wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #81
103. They do not have the mental capacity to reason, so they cannot change their "mind." Better
to save money by cutting them off from any benefits that may come out of any weak reform that occurs.

Leave them with their insurance company plans and let them die when they are denied care in the name of corporate profits.

That is a win-win.
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arenar Donating Member (25 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
35. Friend of mine was there and tweeted about it...
twitter.com/johnhummel

Something has got to be done about this and soon.
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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. mostly wingnut twitter responses. what's with that?
are those people his friends? riffraff off the ethereal street?

don't know how it works, this twitter of which you speak
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #35
46. yes.
Edited on Thu Aug-06-09 07:37 PM by Doctor_J
A big pile of teabagger casualties being taken to the hospital would slow it down. Anything else will not.
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #46
102. A big pile of teabagger casualties being taken to the hospital would slow it down.
I hope they have insurance!!!!!
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #102
110. No --- definitely not .... that's right-wing thinking . . .
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csziggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
39. Get news to Olbermann - Jonathan Alter just said "They are right on the edge of violence"
Edited on Thu Aug-06-09 07:14 PM by csziggy
They need to know that that ARE VIOLENT!

Just emailed link to story.
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #39
49. we already knew that. Who's going to do anything about it?
:shrug:
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csziggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #49
55. Rachel Maddow is doing a good job of detailing what is going on
But she won't be seen by the people who need to see it.

I sent out an email to my friends the other day about the mob mentality - but I don't know if it will do any good.
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Native Donating Member (885 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
42. Geez. I almost went & was even thinking about bringing the older kids.
My guess is things will only continue to escalate. Very scary.
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MagickMuffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
43. How long before a pistol packing thug decides to take real action???

Rep. Pete Sessions (R-TX) has said that the time for polite town halls is over,

I guess he should bear the blame for the violence taking place!


:cry:


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krabigirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. Yep. It will happen soon, IMO. Very sick.
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #43
47. Hopefully it will be one of OUR 2nd amendment absolutists
Edited on Thu Aug-06-09 07:35 PM by Doctor_J
they're always talking about how the 2nd amendment helps preserve the others. Well, let's see it,
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #47
54. Please clarify your statement
Do you want someone who is conducting or speaking at a meeting to shoot a disruptor, or would you rather see a disruptor shoot a meeting organizer or presenter?

Either way, I think your thinking is flawed.

:nuke:
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #54
57. you first
These terrorists are preventing free speech and peaceable assembly. The gun culture insists that the 2nd amendment will protect the others, especially the 1st. When? How?
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #57
58. I hate to have to play Devil's Advocate here, but from their perspective they are practicing...
Edited on Thu Aug-06-09 08:23 PM by slackmaster
...free speech and peaceable assembly.

The gun culture insists that the 2nd amendment will protect the others, especially the 1st. When? How?

I don't know who you are referring to, what they actually said, or in what context.

People making a bunch of noise does not qualify as violence.

BTW - YOU are the one who is on record as "hoping" that someone gets shot. Not me.
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #58
61. The GOP gets more and more like the Nazis every day
these riots are exactly like the beer hall putsches of the early 1930s. They are not practicing free speech, they are rioting, attempting (successfully) to revoke the citizens' right to peaceably assemble. Once again, they have physically assaulted and made death threats against elected Democratic representatives.

Every time a gun thread gets past about 20 replies, someone from the pro-gun side chimes in with "the second amendment is necessary to protect the others". I have seen such a post at least 10 times in threads that pop up after the latest shooting rampage.

I repeat my question. What does this mean? Why aren't the current town hall meetings being protected by armed guards? How far toward Naziism will we have to get before we fight back? If all the Town Hall's are cancelled (meaning another win for the fascists), what protection has our gun proliferation afforded us?
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. Please point out where I have ever said the 2A is necessary to protect the others
Edited on Thu Aug-06-09 09:01 PM by slackmaster
Or where I have ever said that I hoped someone would be shot.

Why aren't the current town hall meetings being protected by armed guards?

When you advocate armed guards to suppress dissenting opinions, I think you are on thin ice. It's not at all reasonable for you to demand that I defend vague statements that others have made in unknown contexts.
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Xenotime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #58
98. They are disruptive and sabotaging the democratic process.
This can not be allowed.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #98
107. Then enforce Robert's Rules of Order, eject people who speak out of turn
And declare anyone who does not comply a trespasser, then have them arrested.

Due process. It works.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #98
111. That's what fascism is all about . . . killing democracy --
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #58
104. YOU are the one who is on record as "hoping" that someone gets shot.
Where did he say that? Talk about putting words in people's mouths!

What I saw was an ironic statement about the gun nut mentality. And an illustration of its stupidity.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #104
108. He said so in reply #47
RIF

I have NEVER done anything like that in my life.
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Native Donating Member (885 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 07:29 PM
Response to Original message
45. from the end of the article . . .
Anticipating problems at health care forums, Florida Democratic Party Chair Karen Thurman released the following statement today:

"Throughout the summer, we have been reaching out to Floridians to engage in an important debate on the future our health care system. We have heard story after story from people who are struggling to get the care they need. "Recently, their thoughtful discussions are being interrupted by angry mobs - well funded and organized by Washington special interests - attempting to drown out the voices of the hard-working Floridians who are desperate for health insurance reform. These groups are not concerned about Americans' access to quality heath care, but are extreme ideologues, only interested in 'breaking' the President and thwarting the change Americans voted for last November."
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Maru Kitteh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
48. Every applicable charge should be pressed against the knuckle-draggers.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 06:51 AM
Response to Reply #48
86. The simplest thing to do is charge them with trespassing after they refuse to leave
But for that to happen, the meeting has to be conducted properly and not allowed to get out of control.
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Maru Kitteh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #86
122. You've piqued my curiosity. If they are disrupting the meeting from without and within
can they not be asked to leave and then charged if they refuse?
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BlueIdaho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
50. Point the camera at these brownshirts.
America needs to look at the faces of hate and intolerance. We need to see the the red-faced vein popping anger of these bigots. We need to choose. Are we a nation of laws or a violent mob determined to rule by brute force and intimidation?

How many of these hillbillies will show up at the church door on Sunday freshly washed and filled with the spirit of Jesus - singing hymns and ignoring the fact that they act more like the people that cheered as he was crucified.
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. Big Media won't show anything negative about the nazis
they're as compliant as the German press was in 1935
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Native Donating Member (885 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
51. Pic

Opponents try to push into town hall meeting.
Bitter divisions over reforming America's health care system exploded Thursday night in Tampa amid cat calls, jeering and shoving at a town hall meeting. "Tyranny! Tyranny! Tyranny!" dozens of people shouted as U.S. Rep. Kathy Castor struggled to talk about health insurance reforms under consideration in Washington, D.C.
full article @ http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/article1025529.ec...
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
53. This WILL get worse. Do the Dems have the stomach to fight?
I have grave doubts. We've been getting pushed around, insulted, threatened, assaulted, killed, and terrorized for 30 years and haven't lifted a finger in retaliation.
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FLAprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
56. FALSE COMMENT ALERT....they're already lying through their teeth!
"User Image
HossInTampa wrote:
From what I gather - EXTENDED:

SEIU & Castor (whose contributors are predominantly unions http://www.opensecrets.org/races/contrib.php?cycle=2008... ) organize (pay to play) a townhall and announce it at the last minute as to reduce opposition voices.

Never the less, the word gets out at the last minute to citizen-led, unfunded grassroots organizations like 9-12 meetup group. Citizens opposed to government-run healthcare gather at the last minute to have their voices heard. Exactly what Castor and SEIU did not want.

Inside, the townhall seated are mostly union members/supporters/people - yet seats remain empty. Hundreds of citizens outside. And yet public is not allowed in.

Castor makes speech turns it over to panel. Soon leaves.

People were prevented access inside to the meeting. Because of this apparent denial of free speech and bias -- and the seemingly blatant sham of a 'townhall' -- many began to shout, some banged windows & doors.

This is what I am surmising / what I am gathering from updates via Twitter.
8/6/2009 9:07 PM EDT on wtsp.com "

on the comments below...report them for lying.
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
59. DailyKos Has More Details:
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
60. at what point does this become blatant incitement?
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #60
63. I believe that is clearly defined in most or all state laws
Incitement (as to riot, commit insurrection, etc.) is a crime everywhere in the USA.
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Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
64. Its going to get worse, it will take something really violent for the bigger Rethugs to step in
and start trying to tone it down as its looking worse and worse for their party. These people look like nuts, not like average people with legitimate worries or complaints. JUST PLAIN NUTS. McLame already commented that he doesn't like it, we shall see what other idiot Rethugs start jumping ship.
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bevoette Donating Member (609 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
67. VIDEO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbBgjc56Mxk

at least it's labeled that way...

she's persistent :)
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #67
68. I don't see anything there that resembles a meeting in any way
At least not an orderly one. Whoever was moderating it failed to maintain control.
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
70. they are trying to stop free assembly of the people to discuss
the healthcare issues. Repigs hate these town halls because they are discussing the issues with the American people, they want to shut it down, we need to shut them down or scream out YES WE CAN.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 09:58 PM
Response to Original message
71. Sounds like organized crime. RICO?
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
72. And the terrorism continues...
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
73. These are obviously not only planned, but paid for by insurance lobbyists
they're willing to cause riots and even deaths to keep their profits (hell, they've killed hundreds of thousands already by denying coverage and care-what would a few more be)? We just need a whistleblower from the inside to step out and expose this crap for what it is.
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young_at_heart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
75. Why didn't we see this intense outrage for the Iraq war?
What kind of Americans are these people---they want "their" America back----the one full of hatred and killing? Get out of my America, you cowards!!
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kevinbgoode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 11:45 PM
Response to Original message
79. They are blaming it on the "union thugs" now. . .
n/t
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nvme Donating Member (486 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 03:58 AM
Response to Original message
82. The same crowd that opposed integration
Had we listened to their ilk we would not have President Obama. The more they realize that they are out of power the more we should expect their extreme action to increase in intensity. I will not be surprised when it is reported that someone is seriously hurt or killed as a result of their actions. did we not receive reports from Homeland security about these right-wing antagonizers? the writing is on the wall.

These insurance companies are going pump enough money to encourage sedition. I really think moneyed-interests are gaining far too much ground. They are pushing in ways that are far more dangerous than "socialized medicine". In fact, in the coming years a congressional investigation should be conducted into the donors to these so called policy groups who oppose current legislation on health-care. I am sure you will see money changing hands over these disruptions. They stand to loose too much. Perhaps they could be hit with RICO statutes.
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 06:11 AM
Response to Original message
83. Just stop all the town halls and forums and write a Democratic only ...
health care bill. Nothing is being learned form these things. If the GOP is so hell bent on disrupting things then cut them out of the process entirely. Look at it this way, Democrats will either get all the blame or all the acclaim depending on how successful this bill is. So take any input we've gotten from the GOP and shelve it. Pass the bill that the Democrats want and let the public decide once the plans are implemented whether it's a success or not.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 06:49 AM
Response to Reply #83
85. The meetings can go on, but order must be maintained
Edited on Fri Aug-07-09 06:53 AM by slackmaster
Here's the bottom line:

I've seen about a half dozen videos of meetings that were already completely out of control. A properly run meeting will never get to that state.

At any public meeting, someone is accountable for the use of the venue. That person has to be in charge and have absolute authority - A chairperson or moderator or whatever you want to call that position, but there has to be a dictator who has the authority to stop the meeting and to tell any person to leave. Having someone in that position is essential for safety as well as the orderly conduct of business.

A competent person chairing or moderating a meeting won't allow it to be taken over by disruptive people. The rules are always the same - One person speaks at a time, and nobody speaks until being recognized by the chairperson or moderator. People who speak out of turn get a warning or two, and if they persist the meeting is shut down until order is restored. The chairperson or moderator sets clear ground rules at the start of the meeting. Guest speakers make their presentations within a set time. Questions and comments are taken after the prepared presentation, one person at a time.

An individual who has been directed to leave and refuses to do so becomes a trespasser, and is subject to arrest.

If you KNOW in advance that disruptors are coming to your meeting, you make arrangements with law enforcement people in advance so they are ready to come on short notice, if they aren't already present at the start of the event.
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PVnRT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 07:46 AM
Response to Original message
88. While the bad part of my brain wants to see some skulls thumped
Doing so would only feed into the martyr complex that these extremists have and embolden them.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 08:25 AM
Response to Original message
89. Here's a video of the event......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbBgjc56Mxk

I'm posting it in videos too.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #89
90. Looks like a fire code violation from the get-go
Edited on Fri Aug-07-09 08:37 AM by slackmaster
I can't be sure without knowing the posted capacity of that room and the actual number of people present, but it looks a little too packed to me.

And who is running the meeting? I can't tell from the video.
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annm4peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
91. Local news should report the Corporations behind the protests
they should be showing the clips from Rachel Maddow and Keith Olberman's show.
Put the documents and facts right in front of their faces over and over.

and the newspapers should also be putting it on the front page.

I hold the local media responsible for violence also, if they aren't reporting this.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #91
114. Your corporate press isn't stupid . . . it's complicit in all of this . . .
from vote stealing to right wing propaganda 24/7 --

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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
99. Better organization and security could stop this. n/t
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Are_grits_groceries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
100. Identify them.
Take pictures and try to find out who they are. If they are being disruptive or violent, catch them in the act. Try to find out who they are and name them. It will have to be a collaborative effort in order to post photos and find identities.

It reminds me of something I learned when I was substitute teaching. The kids counted on not being known. They could be very disruptive. Classes could become impossible. I learned to remember their names after one good look at them. I had to work at that skill. When they did something and I called them out on it by name, it startled them and stopped them cold. All but the most recalcitrant would respond, and those few I could send to the office. They also thought I had magical powers because I could recognize them so quickly.

Remember the mob scene in "To Kill a Mockingbird?" A mob was coming confront Atticus and harm Tom Robinson. It is very tense, and then Scout steps out and calls Mr. Cunningham by name. She reminds him about his son. I believe part of the reason the mob left was because it turned them into individuals.

I am not so naive to believe this will solve the problem. However, it is a good tool to use.
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GinaMaria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #100
118. I think you are absolutely right to do this
a lot of people have cameras on their cell phones. One of these disrupter's starts and click. Every time. They can be video captured too. Then the pics and vids need to be collected on the web. With a large virtual community researching who these peeps are and calling them out, we can accomplish this quickly.
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newspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
101. and, who's really responsible of fomenting violence?
You've got hate spewing neo con wackos claiming that the government is going to euthanize old people, that their medicare is going to sink, that the government is going to know every little medical secret (It's not that * invaded anyone's privacy with wiretapping and all). The hate spewers are telling those with insurance (and some are paying an arm and a leg for) that your going to lose the "fine quality insurance" you've got there. Doesn't matter as more and more people are losing their "decent" jobs, many Americans can't afford health insurance, or are taking the minimum benefit just so they can afford it. But, those who still got their benefits don't give a damn about nobody else, because hey, they're Amerikkans-at this point I believe, selfish, ignorant and easily led.

What really bothers me, is for the past twenty years, MSM seems to have recruited these hate spewing knuckledraggers. They wanted these mouthpieces-they hired these mouthpieces. So, why? MSM is run by corporations, so what's their agenda? Instilling fear, hate and violence in their audience--propping up certain politicians (mainly Republicans) and tearing down others, especially before an election. Sweeping some pretty heavy corruption under the rug, then allowing more access to fabricated BS, like the swift boat liars and the birther stories. It's not because it just sells-they have an agenda and I'm beginning to wonder if it's to keep us divided and keep catapulting the fear and hate.
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Evoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
106. Geez, I've never seen people work so hard to get LESS from their government.
Damn the states is ass-backward. How do people get so propagandized that they are willing to give up MORE rather than get something for their tax money.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
109. Organized fascism . . . organized stupidity . . .
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progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
112. those protestors looked to be one yell away from a fatal heart attack...
.. if I looked as unhealthy as those people, I'd refrain from popping veins on my neck while shilling for billionaire insurance honchos. The funny thing? Most of those assholes don't even have insurance....
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Mopar151 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #112
128. These are the chumps who
run up 250K in bill on "charity care", 'cuz they waited till they was half past dead 'fore Roscoe took 'em over to the Clinic.
The trailer is in Aunt Eula's name anyway, and they got nuthin' you'd sieze - less'n you own a flea market.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
113. There's a parallel here with the violence used to shut down women's clinics . . ..
we have to insist that government enforce the peace --

If there is going to be disorderly conduct then we need police enforcement --

something we didn't get when the GOP sponsored the fascist "rally" to stop the

vote counting in Miami-Dade County in 2000 --

and something we still haven't gotten re women's clinics -- Dr. Tiller!!!

The right-wing has traditionally used violence -- stolen elections -- to get its

way . . . this is just another step along the way!

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GinaMaria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
115. Maybe we need to have virtual townhalls
people type in their questions from their computers and questions are answered one at a time. It's more orderly, easier to access and keeps townhalls going rather than shutting them down. :shrug:
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GinaMaria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #115
120. or issue tickets to constituents eom
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
116. Florida. Douchebaggers. Disgusting, as usual. nt
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Tx4obama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
119. Protesters say that Glenn Beck was partially behind this !!!
Protesters Say They Had Been Spurred On By Conservative Activist Group, Fox News Host (Glenn Beck)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/06/tampa-town-hal...
Excerpt:
Many of the hundreds of protesters said that they had been inspired by a conservative activist group promoted by Fox News host Glenn Beck and some received emails from the county Republican party, according to the St. Petersburg Times.
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Ghost013 Donating Member (15 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
121. Sad day
Wonder what happened to America as it used to be.....
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zanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
123. My senator held a teleconference-style town hall meeting last night.
HUGELY succesful. There were 15, 160 callers. The questioners were mostly pro-healthcare reform. http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Thousa...

Senator Shaheen did a great job.
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Vila Restal Donating Member (7 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
124. Question
How many of you have actually read entire health care bill?

I am asking because just because your political party is in power does not mean we should let our guard down and
accept in blind faith. Remember how the right blindly accepted the war in Iraq and the Patriot Act and look at the consequences. Remember how upset the liberals were when the right wing establishment let out the attack dogs on Iraq War Protesters, saying they should be silenced and arrested. Now I hear the left wing establishment spewing out the same crap about opponents of Obamacare. Don't you get that powers that be want to divide us. Because only a true "United" States would be able to make the changes we want.

This country was founded on dissent, just imagine the original colonist yelling and screaming at the British Lords.

I've heard from various sources that people from all different political flavors are protesting the health care bill. The media is saying it's all "right wing" is a bunch of propaganda.
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rvablue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #124
127. Nice try, but why do you bother. Do you think your Malkin/Beck inspired drivel will have any impact
on DU?

Oh, and by the way, despite what your dear leaders have told you, there isn't a health care bill to read yet.

You wrote this: "Don't you get that powers that be want to divide us. "

Obviously, you don't get it. The likes of Beck and Malkin and Limbaugh, et al, want to divide us so that corporate insurance hogs can still get their record paydays.

You might have good health insurance.....but you're still getting played, pal!
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wial Donating Member (362 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
129. I'm getting why they are bussed in
because it would be such a teachable moment for them were they to get back to their cars and find them in need of costly repairs not covered by their corporate insurance plans, such as slashed tires and key scratches, with little stickers explaining to them how corporate insurance won't help them and how this applies to the health insurance debate. I suppose being bussed wouldn't help much were the bus to have a staging area which was not heavily guarded. Hopefully the PR goons running these shows will get smart and invest in the security needed to protect their cars and the cars of their willing shills. If not, they might lose some supporters as they finally get object lessons clear enough to understand, and/or lose the financial ability to attend rallies. It's a real hole in their plan because such actions would be non-violent and not off limits to those trying to save our country from them.

I've seen some interesting tactics with butyric acid on that Whale Wars show too. It's non-harmful but extremely smelly. It would be bad if someone were to tag one of those corporate buses with butyric acid or to release some among the protesters. For one thing, the media might even make the association, and I doubt the PR folks running these protests at the behest of their corporate masters would like being associated with Japanese whalers. I hope they've got some countermeasures in place to protect themselves, because a lot of people have good cause to raise their games at this point, and there's plenty folks could do out of direct action playbooks that would not raise the violence level yet would make life extremely miserable for the goons and their stooges.

I do hope they're ready.

More effective though and what I'd actually recommend because it worked for us once vis a vis the KKK, is to threaten to dress as clowns (the Klue Klutz Klowns if I recall correctly) and dance around them giving them flowers. On that occasion the KKK hastily canceled their visit, after our plan leaked to the media.

Hey, maybe just dress as KKK and join them, shouting Borat-style over-the-top slogans until even they are embarrassed to silence. (Although as supporters of Glen Beck, maybe that would just lather them up). And bring butyric acid, but lose grip of the bottle accidentally and theatrically spill it everywhere while trying to stop the leak.

There has to be a way.
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