"Treasury Plans to Sell Record $75 Billion in Debt next Week" (8-5-09 AP via CNBC)

[bobthedrummer]

http://www.cnbc.com/id/32299360

Speaks quite distinctly, the subjectline alone. Let's talk about this, DU.

[notadmblnd]

1. maybe Goldman Sach will buy it?

They seem to have a lot of money on hand.:shrug:

[rfranklin]

2. Are they going to sell it to themselves again?

It's getting a bit ridiculous.

[A HERETIC I AM]

4. The US Treasury does not sell bonds to itself. n/t

[BluePup]

5. No, but they loan money to the Fed. Reserve....

Who then buy the bonds.

It's like fixing your household finances, avoiding bankruptcy, with the wife taking money out of her account and 'loaning' it to her husband, who deposits it in his account.

There, you just doubled your money!

I don't understand why they just don't keep doing this, paying out to every citizen $200K in 'stimulus'.... .that would work, right?

[abumbyanyothername]

6. It actually would.

Money is nothing but an illusion to begin with.

Why we choose to make it an illusion where the few control the many is way beyond my amateur study of psychology. If money is just made up to start with, why don't we make up a system where everyone gets a more or less equal piece of the pie?

I mean, here we are with way too much overcapacity in our economy so what possible purpose would encouraging work and productivity serve at this point? Just give people money and allow them to soak up the excess, meanwhile enjoying a higher standard of living.

[BluePup]

10. That has been tried and it failed

Money is not wealth, it is a medium of exchange. When you produce something and make a profit, you have surplus capital that you can invest or 'spend'. Communism is merely, IMHO, another form of Capitalism... where a central authority controls that surplus capital. With Communism: all that is, is matter. With Capitalism: all that matters is matter. 2 sides of the same coin. Both can be diabolical.

Beyond that, though, Marxism makes a number of key assumptions about human nature that are, frankly, wrong.

Namely, self-interest is bad in and of itself.

Take the old 'professor' analogy:

You have a professor that believes, not in socialism, but communism.

Everyone in the class will be giving the 'average' of the grades earned. Everyone will have equal outcomes.

The first test is given and you have a few A's, more B's, and a D.

The average grade is B for everyone.

The next test, the people who got A's (who worked hard), work less hard and get B's. The other students did the same and the average went to a C. Everyone got a C.

By the 9th exam, everyone is failing.

[abumbyanyothername]

12. sigh

Why do you assume that people will only work hard if they get an external reward?

As a student I was trying to learn, I did not care one whit what grade I got. I was pretty much fine with who I was regardless of the professor's opinion. When taking a test, I wanted to win, just as I wanted to win if we lined up for an impromptu 50 yard dash. I wasn't looking for the medals.

So I guess I am not human.

[BluePup]

13. Because I have hired people

It is called 'work' for a reason. If people really liked what they are doing, in and of itself, it would be called a 'hobby'.

The student life is a good one. You are intentionally freed from many aspects of survival (earning a living, etc) but someone is paying the bill. You get 'rewarded' through the joy of enriching your mind, etcc.... I assume there is a goal to your studies. Perhaps you will teach someday at a university. These are all good things, but they don't exist in a vacuum.

[abumbyanyothername]

14. If your people are only capable of being motivated by money

either they are bad employees, you are a bad manager, or both.

In fact, it is far more difficult to motivate people with money than with many other means. People are most motivated by self-realization, and self-development, self-expression.

There is a manager's handbook titled "Why People Work" that may be out of print by now that you might find interesting.

[BluePup]

15. They are not ONLY motivated by money

But I believe in paying people what they are worth. We run a small micro-farm and we sell at a local farmers market. I pay $15 an hour. The workers can take cash or goods in payment. Almost always, they take plants and produce. These are not 'real' jobs... we only need help for a few weeks every year.

[abumbyanyothername]

16. Uh . . .

isn't this typically a busy season on the farm?

[BluePup]

17. We sell vegetable starts, flowers, hanging baskets, etc.

This is the end of the season. Sure, we could go year round but it does not make business sense. If we only have $30 in sales a day, why stay open?

We may open up this fall again for landscaping plants sales.

Perhaps we may buy some punkins for Halloween, some tree's and wreaths for Christmas.

This is a VERY small opperation (we have two, 24 x 48 foot green houses).

[Daylight]

18. If someone that does less makes as much as you the motivation to continue to work harder goes away.

Why bother to work hard if it doesn't get you more than someone who is a lazy bum?

[abumbyanyothername]

19. Well . . . .

#1) You're right. Why bother? As a people we work way too hard to begin with.

#2) What if the work we are doing is saving people dying of cancer? Or alcoholism? Or rescuing children or animals from abuse? Or, for that matter, saving souls for Jesus? Wouldn't we be willing to do that kind of work regardless of how much the lazy bum next to us was making? (btw -- given my moniker, maybe "bum" is not as negative as you had hoped)

#3) Do we really want people to be doing things that they otherwise would not do, but only do because they get the money? How many immoral, vile and disgusting acts are justified by "I did it to feed my family"?

[BluePup]

20. deleted

[Daylight]

21. Someone has to collect the Garbage.

Not everyone can work on the cure for cancer.
Someone has to make the window blinds, bathroom fixtures, etc.
Why should those in real jobs bother to work hard, cost efficient, at their best, if they won't make more than the ones who work just hard enough to keep their job?

[abumbyanyothername]

23. Well

maybe someone is motivated to collect the garbage -- I would be especially if I knew I were doing it in an environmentally sound and creative way.

Some people are really into designing and building home furnishings and fixtures.

Again, if people won't do it unless motivated by money we should be asking ourselves is it really worth having done?

Money is simply a device, or more precisely a convention, by which one person may obtain power over another. The reason it retains it's popularity, especially in America, is because everyone can see how they are able to control others with money, while no one seems to see how they are controlled by money.

[Daylight]

26. yuch

So not having piles of garbage on your curb is not really worth having done if people won't do it for free?
I guess we'll have to get used to going to the bathroom in outhouses since nobody will be making bathroom fixtures or maintaining our sewage system.

I would hate to live in this world you have envisioned.

[abumbyanyothername]

27. I know

you prefer to have your slaves.

Even at the cost of being enslaved yourself.

[abumbyanyothername]

29. By the way

Welcome to DU.

:hi:

[abumbyanyothername]

7. Oh by the way

Welcome to DU.

I just wanted to say it while I had the chance.

:hi:

[BluePup]

8. Hey there!

Thanks! :toast:

[A HERETIC I AM]

9. Nonsense. That's not how it works.

Welcome to DU, by the way.

[BluePup]

11. Thanks.

I just got a new laptop yesterday ($298 for a full sized Compaq!).

I have been sitting on the side lines and felt the need to post. I want to encourage polite converation.

Sometimes I post the opposite point of view, just to spur discussion....... ;)


Anyhow... that is how I understand it works. Educate me. This issue is confusing, to say the least.

[bobthedrummer]

3. Think about the paradox: selling debt!

:crazy:

[Canuckistanian]

22. Hey, I'd like to get in on the ground floor of this "debt" thing

It may be the new IBM or Apple.

Where is it listed?

[SoCalDem]

24. The last two "sales" went pretty poorly.

Maybe the would-be buyers are resisting buying more of our debt..

[abumbyanyothername]

25. I sold my bonds after reading this headline

earlier today. I just don't see it going well.

[Expedite Trucker]

28. I wanna sell my debt-anyone buying?