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Looks like the progressive caucus is going to let us down......

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FLAprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-04-09 04:29 PM
Original message
Looks like the progressive caucus is going to let us down......
Edited on Tue Aug-04-09 04:33 PM by FLAprogressive
http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/08/04/letter-f... /

Here's the kicker in this letter from a CPC staffer:

"i don't think progressive are willing to vote against an imperfect bill if said bill reduces the number of uninsured. additionally, politically speaking we have limited leverage, because we know if the president loses this one, we lose and any hope of meaningful progressive legislation will be thwarted for the rest of this term."

DEAR PROGRESSIVE CAUCUS: YOU SHOULD BE LOYAL TO THE **PEOPLE** FIRST, NOT THE PRESIDENT.

Read more about this stupid staffer's letter of capitulation above. The CPC can pound their chests all they want....but they haven't been able to deliver on anything yet because of this stupid concept of "loyalty" (see the war supplemental bills).
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Dawgs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-04-09 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
1. Sounds like they are willing to pass something now to make sure they can tweak it later.
But, that's just a guess.
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-04-09 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
2. Staffer is right.
If we lose everything on health care, the rest of the agenda is meaningless. That actually IS being loyal to the people, unless "the people" are one-issue voters.
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FLAprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-04-09 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Who wins when a crappy healthcare plan with no public option passes?
The insurance companies.

And that's exactly what will happen. Any healthcare plan without a public option WILL fail anyway....and there will be no more discussion of health care reform because we will have "tried" to "reform" health care and failed.
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-04-09 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Though I agree with what you said about the public option, that's really not my point.
Are you willing to trade-in everything else on the progressive agenda for health care, essentially making yourself a single-issue voter? If that's your choice, that's fine, but not every progressive is willing to do that. Thus, for an organization, it would be suicidal to do that.
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FLAprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-04-09 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. OK, hope you're happy with Romneycare.
If there's no public option...that's what it's gonna be. And it's failing miserably in Massachusetts.
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-04-09 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. You're being intentionally obtuse.
That is NOT what I'm saying at all and you know it.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-04-09 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #15
26. You are saying to forget we have a good majority. No more.
There is no excuse for not getting a decent health care reform. The progressives are being pressured, I would imagine.
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Kermitt Gribble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-04-09 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #7
21. Health care reform encompasses more than just health care.
Not only would it affect health care, it would affect jobs and the economy, as well. Health insurance is one of the main factors for our poor economy, draining the funds from businesses and bankrupting individuals. Supporting health care reform is far from being a 'single issue voter'.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-04-09 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Americans can dutifully be counted upon to accept it with passive obedience.
Servitude is the chief characteristic of our citizenry.
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ieoeja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-04-09 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. Predictions? What issue(s) on the agenda succeeds after we capitulate on healthcare? n/t
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-04-09 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. Go ahead and pick from this list.
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ieoeja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-04-09 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Gotcha. You predict every one of those will pass.

You sure got guts, I'll grant you that.


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FLAprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-04-09 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. They'll only pass if we pass the insurance company sweetheart bill according to these people.
If we don't pass the shitty health care "reform" bill nothing else will pass.

Maybe we deserve it for capitulating so much to the lobbyists and Republicans.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-04-09 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
3. Getting more health care to more people IS loyal to the people
And thank goodness more of them put that ahead of loyalty to a nonexistent utopia.
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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-04-09 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
4. Rolling over and exposing their soft underbellies to conservatives
Im not surprised by anything these spineless not so progressives do anymore.
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masuki bance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-04-09 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
6. That's probably why Pelosi breaks into laughter talking about them.
Edited on Tue Aug-04-09 04:40 PM by masuki bance
"...Despite threats from almost 60 progressive House Democrats -- who outnumber the Blue Dogs -- Pelosi defended the compromise, saying it was similar to one backed by Sen. Edward M. Kennedy. Pelosi predicted that the liberal wing would fall in line because the legislation is so important to them.

"Are you asking me, 'Are the progressives going to take down universal, quality, affordable health care for all Americans?' I don't think so," Pelosi told reporters Friday, breaking into laughter at the question.

California Rep. Lynn Woolsey, who co-chairs the caucus, told The Hill newspaper she was outraged at the thought of Pelosi laughing at the progressives..."

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/notepad/2009/08/progressive...

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MzNov Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-04-09 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #6
35. FDL's link from yesterday....

http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/08/03/pelosi-l... /

I had my hopes so high for the progressives, I spent hours calling them. Then I read this and got totally bummed.
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-04-09 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
9. I would support them if they killed a bad bill
if they thought no bill was better than a bad one, I'd be ok with that.

I also trust them if they decide that preventing a huge defeat for Obama is better for progressives.

Then again, this isn't over and that was just one staffer anyway.
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zipplewrath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-04-09 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
10. It's been a tough call for me
This legislation is roughly the "lowest common denominator" kinda stuff. If it passes, we get about the absolute minimum a progressive could think of. One has to believe it creates the "framework" for future improvements, and that the "public option" will become like medicare, something that can't be touched. One can even imagine it becoming so competetive that small business loves it and the GOP can't get rid of it anymore than SS, medicare, or cash for clunkers. My concern is that it will do something quite the opposite. It will leave the impression that "it's all taken care of" and we'll move on, leaving this to the healthcare industry to slowly erode until everyone starts claiming it's this huge failure because they sucked the life out of any meaningful change.

The administration knows they have progressives over a barrel, and I suspect they love it.
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FLAprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-04-09 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. problem is it reeks of Romneycare....under Romneycare nearly everyone is required to have private
insurance....and Romneycare is failing in Mass.

If there is no public option....this will be just like Romneycare.
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zipplewrath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-04-09 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #14
27. Even with it
Without the right public option, it may not be worth it. If it limits the public option in ways that will undermine it, progressives should hold out for a better deal.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-04-09 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. Progressives *grandchildren*, perhaps. n/t
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-04-09 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #10
29. No. It fundamentally re-establishes the idea that healthcare IS the public's business.
If it passes, it enables us, little by little, to create a humane and affordable system.
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zipplewrath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-04-09 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. Or for them to permanently undermine it
As I have said before, the concern is we get some sort of NCLB type bill that looks good but in the end doesn't live up to the hype and the result is that folks decide it was all a mistake.
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FLAprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-04-09 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #31
36. which shuts the door on future health care reform.
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OHdem10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-04-09 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
12. This is the difference between Progressive and Conservative Caucus
Guess who wins when Progressives cave.
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ieoeja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-04-09 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
17. So we are going to pass a bill (HR3200) written by the Republicans.

But since it is such a horrible bill (mandates and small business penalty), the Republicans will blame it on us. And rightfully so. It won't matter that they wrote the fucking thing, if we are the ones who vote for it while they vote against the bill they wrote.

I see the state of the Republic party today. I see them campaign and think, "boy are those guys stupid."

Then I see our party passing a law the Republics wrote to be hated and wonder, "you mean we're even stupider than they are?"


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FLAprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-04-09 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. +1
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tritsofme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-04-09 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #17
33. HR3200 was written by the Republicans? What in the world are you talking about?
I can't wait to hear the story of how Republicans managed to write Obama's signature piece of legislation in a House of Representatives that is completely dominated by the Democratic Party...

This is a strange one.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-04-09 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor!!!! NO! n/t
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ieoeja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-05-09 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #33
37. Blue Dogs and Republicans outnumber Democrats.

The Republican message on this is that the Democrats want to put government between you and your doctor. Yet the rules and limits being put on doctors are being inserted to "cut costs" and thereby placate the Blue Dogs and their Republican allies.

If there were no Republicans in Congress, or if half the Blue Dogs were Liberal Democrats, then HR3200 would put the doctors in charge of healthcare. And it'd be single-payer, for that matter.

All the negative stuff in HR3200, all the stuff the Republicans are going to use to beat up the Democrats in 2010, was written by the fucking Republicans and their Blue Dog bitches! Health care reform as written is going to KILL us in 2010. Republicans voting against the bill must be secretly praying for its passage so they can hammer us with it.

From a purely political standpoint, we would be much better off letting the Republicans and Blue Dogs kill real healthcare reform. Then we could use THAT to hammer THEM.


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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-04-09 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
19. No matter what even with a public option it's not going to be a perfect bill.
Anybody who thinks we are going to get a perfect bill is pie in the sky.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-04-09 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
20. Did they go into any detail about in what way the bill might be imperfect?
I fail to see how engaging in wild speculation helps... unless these ranting screeds are being sent to your Representative, Senators, and the WH.
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Kermitt Gribble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-04-09 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
23. Our last bastion of hope :(
I'm going to start planning my move to Cuba when they lift the ban on travel - maybe I can become a resident there and get some decent health care. I guess I should start learning to speak spanish now...
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-04-09 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
25. Revolting. I hope that staffer is wrong. n/t
:dem:

-Laelth
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-04-09 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
28. He's absolutely right.
Edited on Tue Aug-04-09 07:51 PM by lumberjack_jeff
These guys didn't become elected officials by being idiots.

Voting against a reform bill which;
a) creates a public plan
b) creates a health insurance exchange
c) establishes a system of affordability credits which makes coverage affordable
d) eliminates preexisting condition exclusions and recission.

... is fundamentally stupid. There is no door #2.
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tritsofme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-04-09 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
32. It was fairly obvious that their rhetoric was empty.
I don't think anyone believed they would vote against the bill.
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