Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Texas says don't give dropouts a job.

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
RB TexLa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 10:52 AM
Original message
Texas says don't give dropouts a job.


By TERRENCE STUTZ / The Dallas Morning

AUSTIN Texas' education chief, stung by criticism of his agency's system for reporting how many students drop out of school, called on the state's leading business group Thursday to help launch a voluntary statewide ban on the hiring of high school dropouts by Texas employers.

State Education Commissioner Robert Scott said businesses in Texas should quit hiring school-age dropouts to force those teenagers to either remain in school or continue their education elsewhere, such as through an online program.

"We need a commitment from businesses in this state to not hire kids who have dropped out of school," the commissioner said, contending that such an employment ban would go a long way in curbing the state's high dropout rate.


http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestne...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
1. THE. BEST. GANG. RECRUITMENT. TOOL. EVER.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. No shit. I'll bet they're still for letting them join the military though.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #1
13. Another giant wet kiss to the prisons for profit industries.
One of the few growth sectors in the US economy.

:puke:


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #13
24. No kidding. And the benefit -add is MSNBC STILL won't have to come up with
new shit for the weekends.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
29. Yep. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
38. Well, if they're black dropouts, then getting to join a violent gang where they're likely to be shot
might simply be an (intended) side effect.

But, I really don't want to believe that people are that evil.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
69. They are recruiting into gangs at age 10 where I teach
By the time kids drop out at age 16 they have already been in a gang for several years.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sharesunited Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
2. Very unfair. School is not for everybody.
And you can be successful with knowledge not taught there.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
30. School is for everybody
University is not.

"Successful". Having an educated populace is about more than just making money.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WolverineDG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #2
42. They need to bring back vocational education
Yes, it was used in the past to funnel minority students away from the academic track, but for some kids, that's what they want to do. We had an excellent Voc-Ed program at my school, kids got training in various trades, graduated with a high school diploma, & opened up their own shops or got decent paying jobs the day after graduation.

In my own family, we had so many problems getting my younger brother to school & it was a miracle he even graduated. Then he went into the Army & excelled there. When he got out, he went to a technical college, learned a trade, & graduated near the top of his class. I asked him why & he said school bored him to tears, just sitting around all day in the class room doing nothing.

dg
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sharesunited Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #42
79. I like this story! And you can learn a trade at the side of a tradesman.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WolverineDG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #79
99. You could at least start on your electrian's or plumber's license,
auto mechanics, or cosmetology. I know there were more trades offered, but I can't remember them now. Anyway, I do know that the girls who went the cosmetology route tested for their license BEFORE graduation, so if they passed they literally could open up their own beauty shop the next day. I don't know if the kids in the electrician or plumber's fields were masters or tested out to be journeymen, though, but I think when they graduated, they could hire on with a master & go from there.


dg
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Blue_Roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #42
110. well said!
Edited on Mon Aug-03-09 08:25 AM by Blue_Roses
I teach Special Education and the break-down in understanding the curriculum for some is a fact. We have IEP's to help with modification, but I agree, find out what they are interested in and let them excel in that. There has got to be another way than to just let them fall through the cracks!
:thumbsup:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #2
47. school is for everybody
when people are dropping out, something's wrong with the school system, not the the idea of school.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #2
71. Not really
Lifetime earnings for high school dropouts is much lower. They are also at greater risk for addiction and criminal behavior. In case you hadn't noticed GED programs are booming in our prisons.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
armyowalgreens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
75. An education is for everybody. A major university might not be...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DollyM Donating Member (837 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #2
105. public school is not for everyone . . .
Our "square peg kid" was suffering in public school. We took him out and home schooled him and he blossomed with talents and overcame several disabilities. (I laughed when I took out an old IEP of his from public school that said he was mentally retarded. My MR son taught himself to play guitar and could play better than some people who had played for years. But that doesn't count in the public school system.) We need to realize that that not everyone is going to "fit" into the public education system (remember that the present age graded system has only been around since the industrial revolution)and it is time we come up with alternatives in education. I vote for vocational programs as well as interest based programs and REAL world experience.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Blue_Roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #105
111. I agree...
I am a social worker, working on my certification to teach Special Ed and you are so right! An IEP that doesn't address the REAL problem works against the child. I've noticed in our "new" curriculum (alternative teaching certificate classes) that emphasis is being placed on teaching to the student's "strengths" and not their weaknesses. For example, if an ADHD student has trouble sitting for long periods of time, let them stand at the bookcase and write their assignment. There are alot of new modifications that we are implementing to make sure no more children fall through the cracks.

I have a dyscalculia, which is a math "commputation" disability and I didn't know I had it until my daughter showed signs of it. I took a test for it and sure enough, bingo! No wonder I struggled with Math in school. Now, I am dedicated to making sure NO OTHER CHILD goes through what I went through trying and failing at Math. I've started with my daughter (working with her directly on math homework) and I will continue with other children that I find struggling as well.

I'm finding that new and old teachers have a hard time understanding learning disabilities--especially ADHD. By the way, the terminology "mentally retarded" is not allowed to be used anymore! :) Small steps...

You sound like you've done a great job with your son!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DollyM Donating Member (837 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #111
115. politically correct words change over the years . . .
This was only three years ago so I think the school was just reverting to old familiar terms. Our son died May 30th in a car wreck. We are so glad we had the time that we did in home schooling him. We didn't go through the typical teenager problems that many people do because he spent a great deal of time with us and learned our values rather than those of his peers. We never believed he was MR, he just didn't fit any other label they could apply so it was easy to slap that one on him. I believe he was mildly autistic more than anything. He got over stimulated easily and the school system is not made for reduced stimuli. So being at home where it was calm and relaxed helped him learn better. One of his friends was over the other day and he talked about how Kevan knew prices better than anyone he knew. He could tell you who had the cheapest gas in town, who had the best prices on soda, who had what on sale, and so forth. I am pretty frugal but I don't even have all that memorized or pay that close of attention. He was an amazing, wonderful kid who touched a lot of people's lives with his sweet spirit. He may have not had an average IQ but his intelligence in the areas that counted was off the chart.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LostInAnomie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
3. God damn! Do they do everything fucked up and backwards in Texas?
That is fucking idiotic on so many levels.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Wapsie B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
5. This is just as fucked up as trying to fix the illegal immigration problem by erecting a fence.
Why not get to the heart of the issue and try to understand why people leave school (or Mexico) in the first place? Simplistic solutions for the simple-minded.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
6. They want to increase the welfare rolls?
:wtf:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Texasgal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
7. How about paying teachers a decent f'in salary
That's the damed problem you idiot!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. actually, parental involvement is by far the biggest factor in a kid's education.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. How do parents get more involved working several jobs to cut a living? n/t
Single parent? Impossible.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #15
26. facts are facts- parental involvement is THE most important factor in a child's education.
no matter how inconvenient that may be for some people.

obviously some people have absolutely no business having children.

as to the situation you described- the solution is simple and straight-forward. the parent works one less job, gets by with less, and spends more time with their child.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #26
33. Um, you mean one "fewer" job. If you must blame
the victims, the least you could do is use proper grammar.

Jeesh.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #33
45. the only "victim" in that situation is the child of an irresponsible parent.
and 'parent' may even be too strong a word.

the parent should work one less job, and learn to get by with less 'stuff' but more time with their kid(s).

someone has to act like a parent in that situation.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #45
58. Sometimes that is not an option
It is fairly naive to just assume it to be that simple. When most people don't make a living wage as it is, that extra job might not be optional.

I do agree that parents need to start acting like parents. It is your obligation to educate your children. The public school system is only one step in meeting that obligation.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #58
61. educating and caring for your children is not optional.
it may mean having roomates, or moving in with family to save money- but if it's a choice between parenting your child or working that extra job- it's the job that's ALWAYS optional. if it isn't- the person is not a parent, and needs to consider finding a better home for the child.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. A great deal of Naivete shown
For many people, what you suggest is simply not an option. You can't get blood from a stone.


You seem to keep riding this assertion that impoverished people with two jobs have one optional. As if they could just quit the "extra" job and suffer no serious financial setbacks. Like the poor are just getting "Extra" jobs to buy candy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #62
83. ultimately- the responsibility for the child's education belongs with the parents.
i just get entirely sick of people blaming the schools or the teachers or anyhting EXCEPT the parents who refuse to be parents.
once someone chooses to be a parent- if the child's education ends up lacking- the parent has absolutely nobody to blame but themselves- unfortunately, it's the child that ends up paying the price for the parent's choices.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #83
104. It is obvious that parents are the keystone in the process
However, you are being irrational when you claim it to be as simple as just quitting an extra job.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 01:52 AM
Response to Reply #104
107. ultimately- it IS just as simple as that.
but some people just aren't parent material.

unfortunately, too many make the choice to become them anyway.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #107
113. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about
Heath Care
Rent
Electricity
Water
Gas
Car expenses
Medical Care


Why don't you explain to me how one person working a low paying job is going to pay for all those for themselves and a child?

Do you believe that only the rich are "parent material"?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tsuki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #45
65. "Less stuff." Is that like dental and health care? Food and shelter?
I see desperate people in desperate situations all the time, and judgmental holier-than-thous with their nose in the air.

As one said to me last month, I tried to everything right and live by the rules, how did it come to this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #65
85. a lot of people probably had parents that were just as crappy...
it tends to be a self-repeating/sustaining cycle.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mrs_p Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #45
96. maybe that parent is being
responsible by working to pay the rent and put food on the table, and it takes several jobs to do it. those are first priorities as a parent, are they not?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #96
100. not to the child.
if it takes several jobs, then the parent needs to look at lowering costs by having roomates, getting food stamps, etc...parents have to spend time WITH their children, teaching and nurturing them. the intangibles in childhood ars a much bigger factor than the 'stuff;.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #26
44. self-delete
Edited on Sat Aug-01-09 03:50 PM by dysfunctional press
wrong place
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DollyM Donating Member (837 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #26
116. I quit my job, stayed home and home schooled our son.
We down sized our lifestyle and I started a home based business. I will never regret it. We had a great kid who was kind, loving, stable and who excelled in his talents and abilities. I don't buy the "I can't afford to spend more time on my child" story. It is always a matter of priorities. Our son heard "we can't afford it" alot and he learned to be happy on much less. The dollar menu at McDonalds was a treat, going to the lake was a treat, being with his family and friends was more important than how much he spent or what they did. We need to return to a more simplistic lifestyle where families work and play together. I saw a story recently about mother's who were laid off and the changes in their lifestyle and how much happier their kids were that they were home. The kids didnt care that they didn't have the latest video game, they had Mom home after school and didn't come home to an empty house. What is that statistic, the highest time for juvenile crime is between the hours of 3 and 5 pm, duh, out of school and before a parent gets home.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pharlo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #11
25. That is SO true.
I wanted to drop out of school at sixteen. However, I encountered one insurmountable object - My mother. I wound up with a college degree.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #25
37. I was almost kicked out at 16
My insurmountable objects (both parents)were not having that. I've gotten my associates degree and should very soon have a bachelor's degree.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #11
98. Yup. That's why politicians have it wrong when they place blame squarely on the teachers.
Oh, there can be bad teachers - no question there. But, like I responded elsewhere, they are not the crux of the issue. Nor should they be scapegoated as such.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
surrealAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #7
23. That's one of the problems. Another one is ...
... families who are poor enough to really need the salary a high school drop-out can earn.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
8. They had a real opportunity and they blew it
I like the European system when kids get the general diploma at 16 but have the opportunity of continuing until they're 18 or 19, university to follow.

Not all kids are academically talented or interested. Instead of forcing them into a one size only fits half education, why not recognize that?

Dumb ole Texas could have been a leader. Now they're just dumb ole Texas and I hope they like the explosion in gangs.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
47of74 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
9. WHAT. A. FUCKING. IDIOT.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PA Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
10. YEAH! That'll teach them!
Seriously, this is the most f'ed up idea I've heard in a long time. I guess there are not enough people in prison already in Texas.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
notesdev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
12. Maybe the dropouts can
do the job of State Education Commissar.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FSogol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #12
17. They'd be overqualified. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WestSeattle2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
14. God I miss Molly Ivins
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mrs_p Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #14
97. i'm from west seattle!
is it still hot there?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
16. Dropout rate for Texas is over 20%
http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/cats/education/e...

Don't educate 'em; don't give 'em a job. What's left?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gmoney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #16
46. What's left? Move away and become someone ELSE'S problem, that's what.
Clear message: "You're not wanted here."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
18. Dropouts are clearly insufficiently indoctrinated..
And would invariably make poor employees.

:eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
iamjoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
19. Why Not Change The Labor Laws
I mean, really - why not just change the labor laws so people under 18 can't work? Or can't work during school hours? Why not pass laws raising the age for mandatory schooling?

Oh no, that would be government involving itself in business, playing nanny government, etc.

Whether enacting laws or using the bully pulpit does nothing to look at why kids are dropping out of school. Drop outs are a symptom of a deeper issue.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mariana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #19
49. Texas already has mandatory school attendence until age 18.
This jerk wants to punish ADULTS, not kids.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Uben Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
20. You don't want to hire those people anyway
One of my best friends dropped out of school in the eighth grade. He landed a job with a guy who owned a printing press. He learned the profession quite well and eventually quit and bought his own press. HE is now a retired multi-millionaire!

You only need an education if your not smart enough to make it without one. A lot of millionaires running around never finished school and even more never went to college. Yet they still succeeded. Some people are just hardwired to be successful through their own hard work and drive.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #20
31. Do you really think that is representative of what happens to most drop outs? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Uben Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #31
91. No, it's not...
...but it is representative of one who did! I personally know several people in this category...drop-out millionaires. I would never advocate a child to drop out of school, but I would also never tell them they can't achieve anything they want with determination. Being "book smart" does not make one successful in life. I know a lot more people with college degrees that are barely getting by these days. If you do not have the determination to succeed, you will not, no matter what kind of education you have.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jkid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
21. What if the student has no choice but to dropout, if they have to support a family.
By getting a job? What about that. Welfare helps little.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tikki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #21
28. How many self-made millionaires have told their....
story of quitting school to help their family when a tragedy hit
and then went on to make grand amounts of money!!?

Isn't it FAMILY, only, who is supposed to take care of each other
during hard times!!!?

Tikki
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cresent City Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #21
32. In Texas, no kids no welfare
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mariana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #21
43. Too bad. The family can starve.
It's more important that the state's dropout stats look good.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
22. Does that include dropouts from Mexican schools?
Just sayin.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
27. How typically Texan.
:eyes:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
angelshare2 Donating Member (20 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
34. Drop out.
I rember those drop out commercials from the 80's about how horrible your life will be if you drop out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
35. What an asshole
n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
36. Yeah be a damn shame if someone in Texas didn't get the proper education
How can you hold a job if you don't believe in "Creationism". :rofl:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WolverineDG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
39. Just when I thought the Rs couldn't get any stupider in my state
Edited on Sat Aug-01-09 03:34 PM by WolverineDG
:heavy sigh:

And this really pisses me off because TEA labels migrant students (as well as any student who changes school in the middle of the year) as "drop outs."

:grr: :grr: :grr:

dg
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mariana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #39
55. When did that start?
It used to be the other way around.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WolverineDG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #55
63. When I was teaching in the 1990's
my school district always got "warnings" from TEA about the "high" number of drop outs. Yes, a lot of kids did really & truly drop out, but TEA also insisted that we count all the migrant students who left school early as "drop outs" as well, even if they re-enrolled in another school district to finish out the school year. To make this rule less blatantly racist, TEA determined that any child who withdrew from any school for any reason was a "drop out." Of course, this rule impacted Hispanics more than anyone else.

dg
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WolverineDG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #55
64. delete dupe nt
Edited on Sat Aug-01-09 07:05 PM by WolverineDG
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
csziggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
40. Why not work with employers to help dropouts get their GEDs as they work?
Some kids have to work to help support their families, but if they had incentive to finish their high school diploma, they probably would. So why not work with the employers to hire the kids with the provision that they work towards that diploma? They can get the job, but they have to show that they are making an effort?

That would be a win-win for the state and for the employers - increase the number of kids with diplomas and increase the education level of employees.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mariana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #40
56. GED's probably don't count against the dropout rate.
You didn't imagine this was really about the welfare of the former students, did you?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
csziggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #56
59. Of course they don't really care about the students who drop out
What I can't figure is what their agenda really is. How does it benefit anyone if young people can't get jobs? They must want the drop outs to fail, but all that does is to cost the rest of the community more money.

I've known several young people who dropped out, were working, and got their GED. A couple even went on to attend vocational school or community college since once they developed the habit of studying, they understood how more education could help them to get better jobs. Without being able to get low level jobs in the first place, they would not have had that incentive or opportunity.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mariana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #59
66. He probably supposes that if they can't work
they'll go back to school, or won't quit in the first place. He may also bear them some personal animosity for making him and his school system look bad. I would hope that's not the case, but he does sound like he's pretty angry at them and does, indeed, want them to fail.

Something to remember: in Texas, mandatory school attendence is until age 18, so he's not talking about kids really, he's talking about young adults of legal age who've chosen to leave school for whatever reason. He has no business trying to penalize adults for not doing what HE thinks they should be doing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
varelse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
41. It's more likely to send a powerful message to young people to leave Texas
in search of employment. Or find "alternative" methods of employment such as enrolling in the military, selling controlled substances, or running numbers.

Wouldn't education chief act more effectively by searching for and addressing the root causes of the high dropout rate? Somehow, I doubt that it is attributable to the irresistable allure of a minimum wage retail or fast food job.

:shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
48. Rah Rah Rah for pro-life
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
onestepforward Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
50. For those of you who might want to email this dip shit
Here is his email:

commissioner@tea.state.tx.us
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
51. Texas: a national laboratory for Bad Government
~Molly Ivins.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mariana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
52. The dropouts who are working are the ones most likely
to want to go back to school or get a GED later on to improve their prospects.

This is idiotic.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #52
54. Or...it's been known that in poor economic times kids drop out
to find any employment they can to help the family's income.

I am not a native of Texas...been here less than three years and I know already that this commissioner's edict will fit right in! This state is......there are no words.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
53. Yes, that way they'll break the law and will work as slaves in prison for some megacorporation
on the cheap.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
1handclapn Donating Member (61 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
57. NCLB was their F'n idea..
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #57
76. And a myopic program it is too
Pinning performance solely on the instructor doesn't work if the children don't want to learn. Nor can instructors discipline children because the worthless parents would be more inclined to sue and try to get some easy money than to do their job of raising their child (an admittedly uneasy task, especially when a child's peers help drag down the children taught by responsible parents, and I know of one such person... our school systems have BIG problems, like I didn't know that 20 years ago, but that was 20 years ago... they're far worse now.)

And, no, this response is not sarcastic.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #57
77. And a myopic program it is too
Pinning performance solely on the instructor doesn't work if the children don't want to learn. Nor can instructors discipline children because the worthless parents would be more inclined to sue and try to get some easy money than to do their job of raising their child (an admittedly uneasy task, especially when a child's peers help drag down the children taught by responsible parents, and I know of one such person... our school systems have BIG problems, like I didn't know that 20 years ago, but that was 20 years ago... they're far worse now.)

And, no, this response is not sarcastic.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
60. Sigh.... That's my state.......
They say it's gonna turn blue soon. Can't be soon enough for me. :cry:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 08:26 PM
Response to Original message
67. An easier solution would be to make them stay in school till they are 18
Why do we let kids drop out??

I'll probably get flames but I have no problem with not giving them jobs. We need to do something to make them stay in school and graduate.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RB TexLa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #67
68. There are people who are not smart enought to graduate from high school.
Edited on Sat Aug-01-09 08:40 PM by RB TexLa
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #68
73. I strongly disagree
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RB TexLa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #73
78. You disagree that there are people who are not smart enough to graduate high school?

Really? I've met many of them. I probably should have said not smart enough instead of stupid in the other post. I'm not trying to say anything bad about these people. But the fact is there are smart people and not as smart people. Do you just not accept that as fact?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #78
80. I teach in an urban public school
I have high expectations of all of my students, as do all good teachers. If I thought any of my students wasn't smart enough to finish high school I would find another line of work.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mariana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #67
81. Texas already has mandatory school attendence until age 18. nt.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #81
82. That's wonderful
How are kids not earning diplomas then?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mariana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #82
86. They get a year or two behind.
as a result of failing some classes and having to repeat them, and quit on their 18th birthday. I can imagine that the prospect of staying in high school until you're 20 or 21 would be extremely discouraging.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #86
90. The state should offer them GED classes or alternative Ed programs
But I still don't disagree with no diploma = no job. It's best for these kids in the long run.

And kudos to Texas for raising the dropout age. I have been lobbying for that here as long as I have been teaching.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mariana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #90
101. I believe a student who quits high school and gets a GED
still counts as a "dropout" in the calculations of the dropout rate. This shouldn't be so, of course.

In another state that I lived in, I knew some kids (16 was the age in that state) who quit school, promptly got GED's and started taking college classes at the local community college. These kids were still counted against the public school district as "dropouts". This is very stupid. If a kid can pass the GED at 16, the schools have obviously done a fine job of educating him. That kid is a success story for the school, not a failure!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #101
102. That is stupid
I think that's how it works here too. A couple years ago the state came up with a new tracking system so when a kid transfers to a new district, he isn't counted as a dropout in the district he left. Dropout rate in a couple districts went from 40% to less that 20%.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TwixVoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
70. BAHAHAHAHAAHA
So what will low wage employers do? Only hire college grads?

This is BS. Employers LOVE high school drop outs because they get away with paying them shit. They will never stop hiring them for that very reason.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #70
74. That makes sense.
Regrettable, especially with out President encouraging people to go back for more education and all...

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
72. I agree. Even on my facebook page, having mentioned going back for higher schooling,
I was belittled by a friend of a friend.

That's his damn problem, but that's not the point: I've observed enough to know more and more Americans are apathetic.

Now, it's the chicken and the egg: Apathy because of rabid, blind offshoring? Or the other way around? Or both, perhaps?

How might you convince people to give a damn about education? I know what I would do, but I'll let you answer first.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Naturyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 01:09 AM
Response to Original message
84. Meh... I'm of two minds.
thinking conventionally, it's obviously an utterly dumb idea.

Thinking unconventionally, however, it might have positive "unintended consequences" in the form of opening a lot more people's eyes to the form and process of cultural indoctrination. Dropouts are among the few who actually have a chance to make a habit of thinking for themselves. Once you have 4 years of college, 50k in debt, and a "good job," there's not much chance of ever seriously questioning the mainstream.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 01:22 AM
Response to Original message
87. Are you kidding me? And what are the dropouts supposed to do,
starve to death?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mariana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 01:45 AM
Response to Reply #87
89. They're supposed to go back to school, no matter what.
Texas has mandatory attendance until age 18, so he is talking about ADULTS here. If underage students are dropping out, the answer is to send truant officers after them, not play bullshit games trying to get employers not to hire them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 01:28 AM
Response to Original message
88. What happens to kids who are expelled?
They are kept out of schools - and not allowed to work for several years?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GA_ArmyVet Donating Member (304 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 08:26 AM
Response to Original message
92. That is gutless, and cowardly legislation in my
Edited on Sun Aug-02-09 08:27 AM by GA_ArmyVet
opinion.

If they want to force the kids to stay in school, then legislate a new requirement which mandates Graduation from High School instead of the current rules that allow 16 years olds to decide if they want to go or not.

But to force this on the businesses to punish someone for an honest and legal decision about their own lives is a cowardly display of legislators shirking their duties and a disturbing lack of conviction of their own principals.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mariana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #92
103. Texas already has mandatory school attendence until age 18. nt.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Stevenmarc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
93. The motto on the Tx license plate should read, The Cannon Fodder State
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lightningandsnow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
94. Stupidest idea ever.
Like someone upthread said, it's a perfect gang recruitment tool.

Plus, not everyone drops out due to lack of motivation. I know a young woman who dropped out because she was being mercilessly bullied.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Serial Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
95. Incite CRIME??
Add people to criminal system costs, add people to welfare, add people to non-insured and increase health care cost?

:wtf:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
106. Why not just make school mandatory until graduation or age 18? eom
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MrsBrady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 01:54 AM
Response to Original message
108. you've got to be freaking kidding me
I knew we had it bad here already, but this is beyond stupid.

What is beyond stupid?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 01:58 AM
Response to Original message
109. questions, questions, questions
question #1: who the fuck made robert scot "State Education Commissioner?"

question #2: is he on drugs?

question #3: what is *wrong* with this asshole?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DailyGrind51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
112. Limbaugh dropped out of college, does that count?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kjackson227 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
114. This is my perspective only, and I can only speak by way of living in Dallas, so...
I firmly believe that parental responsibility is the number one issue, but it is very hard being there for the child when parents have to work more than one job. It's harder to parent here in Texas because government assistance isn't available as readily as it is in other states, public transportation is almost non-existent (try getting the child to and from school AND make it on time to your job WITHOUT decent transportation- it's almost IMPOSSIBLE, so a car is absolutely necessary here), in addition to the fact that our children are at the bottom of the list for health care (sick kids mean days off from WORK, and school). The educational system is also a disappointment (at least here in Dallas), and throwing more money into the system is not the answer either (not when the system is CORRUPT). There's plenty of blame to go around, but asking companies not to hire these kids is a BIG MISTAKE.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Aug 21st 2014, 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC