Lucia Whalen was the one person who got it right

[Enrique]

What her lawyer says here really struck me. Listening to the tape of the call, I thought wow she's very good, better than we would expect a 911 caller to be.

She was very careful in what she said, and there was no element of ass-covering because she wouldn't expect it to get the kid of scrutiny it got. She was careful because she's a responsible citizen who wants to be fair to people.

As she said, "I tried to be careful and honest with my words, it never occurred to me that the way I reported what I saw be analyzed by an entire nation."

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/jul/29/us-obama-harvard-scholar-072909/?politics&zIndex=140468

(...)

Her attorney, Wendy Murphy, said the three men overreacted, while Whalen was the only one who remained cool.

"The three highly trained guys who reacted badly are getting together for a beer," Murphy said. "The one person whose actions have been exemplary will be at work tomorrow in Cambridge. I don't know – maybe it's a guy thing. She doesn't like beer anyway."

(...)

[tekisui]

1. She is completely faultless. She did exactly what she should have

done. Reported a suspicious activity as a possible break in.

[seabeyond]

2. all the questions i had with crowley report on her was answered by 911 call.

anything that did not make sense.... was because crowley fabricated a report

[Enrique]

3. unfortunately it doesn't answer some important questions

since some questions depend on what happened at the scene, of course the 911 call can't answer those.

[seabeyond]

6. i really am not getting what you are saying. that her later statement saying she didnt have

"conversation" is questioned? or what actually happened in the house

i think, what is clear, is crowley lied on his report ergo, his entire report is now in question. blatant fabrication leads a person to not be able to believe this man. before i was just going off his report, knowing there was he said she said. now, crowley doesnt deserve that consideration. what happens with liars

[Enrique]

8. yes, in fact they did speak at the scene

At first, it appeared that the conversation was fabricated, but it is now known that a conversation did take place.

[seabeyond]

11. i am the one who called. stay here. is not a conversation. but... if that is the defense

so very weak, so be it. he fabricated what was in the satement, the is made it up. lied. as you well know. yet still you insist on defending a liar in official capacity. not to mention irresponsible and just plain childish, how foolish it is and destructive not only to civilians, and the communities, but to the very police force you defend

[Enrique]

13. first of all, the 911 tape addresses none of this

which was my original point. You said that the 911 tape answered all of your questions, but some things happened at the scene and so the 911 call can say almost nothing about those events.

By the way, Whalen defended the Cambridge police as well. With her and Obama, I feel like I'm in good company in being fair. Or as Whalen put it, "careful and honest."

That said, I think it's entirely possible that the Cambridge police end up paying Gates, and maybe even Whalen, for harm they did to those individuals. Who knows what will be found out in the future?

[seabeyond]

16. firstly... seriously you should have asked what questions it answered

instead of pretending you had a clue or not even caring what that might before making your statement. my questions where, why she didnt know it was luggage and why seeing them carry them in she didnt think probably their house

those were answered in the 911 call

next, why the crap was in crowleys report if per her 911 call

next, crowley made that up int he report.

i dont care about gates making money off this. not what it is about.

actually being honest in this country, actually owning up to a wrong someone does is a damn good first step for me.

[Enrique]

21. I agree about owning up to a wrong

totally agree.

I also agree in trying not to do wrong. An example of wrong is accusing someone without knowing it's true. You don't know Crowley fabricated that report.

This could end a number of ways. It could turn out that he fabricated the report. That wouldn't make me wrong for defending him, because I have no way of knowing it. It could also turn out that he didn't fabricate the report but in that case I believe that WOULD make you wrong for accusing him of it.

[seabeyond]

23. yes it would make me wrong. he wrote whalen said.... whalen did not say. unless she is the liar

but i think she has way more credibility than the police. i think her 911 call certainly supports she did not say two blacks with backpacks.

besides having film alwyas to show exactly what happens, evidence could not be more clear.

yet

some rather pretend otherwise to give an out.

i find that shameful

[Enrique]

27. do you find it shameful for Lucia Whalen to say she respects the police?

do you find it shameful for Obama to praise Crowley?

I feel I'm in good company with those two.

[seabeyond]

28. no. i find it shameful that once again, we will let a lie stand. n/t

[Enrique]

32. you think there won't be further investigations?

seems unlikely to me.

[seabeyond]

33. sadly, i see too many people trying to justify, excuse, really dont care officer of law broke

the law.

i dont have faith

that, we will have to see

[Enrique]

35. now you're being unfair to me

I'm not doing any of those things.

[seabeyond]

36. i really am not. lol. actually i have mellowed on your posts. i was think as a whole

not talking about you specifically.

i just became disillusioned talking to you, lol

kinda looking at what has happened in our world.

[Solomon]

47. yes you are.

You guys just refuse to see it for what it is.

How come nobody is getting pissed at the cop for lying on Whalen. He's the one who caused her trouble by lying about her in his report.

You guys kill me. There are none so blind as those who will not see.

Why do you keep asking what else happened at the residence? The cop's report is all you need to know.

Do you think that if Gates had threatened the cop with a weapon it would NOT be in a policeman's report? What more do you need? Gates did nothing to justify his arrest, yet you people just keep going on and on about how it's HIS fault.

Is there some particular word that you think Gates said that would justify and arrest at his own home. Listen to the police tape. The fucking cop clearly called for backup after Gates showed him his ID. Why did he do that? Did Gates threaten him? If he did, why isn't it in the report. And by the way, I heard no "screaming and yelling" from Gates on that tape.

You guys need to just quit.

Obama was not only right in calling it stupid, but he was giving the cop a break when he called it stupid instead of something else.

[Enrique]

51. I never said it was Gates fault

I don't think it was his fault.

You're confusing me with someone else.

[Spazito]

15. No, she was very clear in her statement during the press conference...

"At first it appeared that the conversation was fabricated, but it is now known a conversation did take place." Really? Let's take a look:


From the press conference:

Reporter: Lucia, did you ever talk to Sgt. Crowley?

Ms. Whalen: As I said the only words I exchanged were, "I was the 911 caller" and he pointed to me and said, "Stay right there".

Reporter: Nothing more?

Ms. Whalen: Nothing more than that.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/32206208#32204844

Contrast that with what Sgt. Crowley filed in his OFFICIAL police report:

"When I arrived at (blacked out house number) Ware Street I radioed ECC and ask that they have the caller meet me at the front door to this residence. I was told the caller was already outside. As I was getting this information, I climbed the porch stairs toward the front door. As I reached the door, a female voice called out to me. I turned and looked in the direction of the voice and observed a white female later identified as Lucia Whalen. Whalen, who was standing on the sidewalk in front of the residence, held a wireless telephone in her hand and told me it was she who called."

This is where it is fabricated:

"She went on to tell me that she observed what appeared to be two black males with backpacks on the porch of (blacked out house number) Ware Street. She told me that her suspicions were aroused when she observed one of the men wedging his shoulder into the door as if to force entry. Since I was the only police officer on location and had my back to the front door as I spoke with her, I asked that she wait for other responding officers while I investigated further."

http://www.samefacts.com/archives/Police%20report%20on%20Gates%20arrest.PDF

[Enrique]

19. it might be fabricated

or there might be another explanation.

At one point it was not known that Whalen spoke to Crowley at all. At that point, it really appeared that the conversation was fabricated, meaning made up out of thin air.

Now that it is known that they did speak, other explanations become possible, such as a misunderstanding of some kind.

[Spazito]

20. What 'misunderstanding"?

What "other explanations"? We have both their 'statements'.

[Enrique]

22. maybe he went back and spoke with another woman

and confused her with Whalen.

Or maybe he misheard what Whalen said.

Or maybe Whalen forgot what she said.

Before we knew they spoke, none of these would have been feasible. How could there be a misunderstanding about a conversation that didn't take place?

[Spazito]

26. You really are having to stretch beyond belief in order to

defend Sgt. Crowley, it is quite sad. What is ON record is clear. The woman Sgt. Crowley names in his report is Ms. Whalen. Neither he NOR Officer Figuerao make reference to any other woman on scene and both name Ms. Whalen as the woman who made the 911 call AND the woman to whom they spoke.

[seabeyond]

29. further, with this lie exposed, do you really think police or crowley would let stand for three days

if an explainable "excuse" existed.

there is no way they can do anything to validate the lie. hence the silence

oh, and crowley now needing his union rep and attorney with him to have a beer

disgusting

[Spazito]

34. Yes, if there had been another woman on scene that was interviewed...

by Sgt. Crowley and/or Officer Figuerao that would have been revealed by now.

[DeSwiss]

78. The PIG Lied. n/t

[sabrina 1]

64. Neither Whalen nor her attorney

ever said she did not speak to Crowley. The attorney said she had never spoken the words attributed to her by Crowley in the police report to 'any police officer'.

The second police officer's report backs up Whalen's version of the story.

http://www.amnation.com/vfr/Police%20report%20on%20Gates%20arrest.PDF

"I stepped out to gather information from the reporting person, WHALEN, LUCIA. Ms Whalen stated to me that she saw a man wedging his shoulder into the front door as to pry the door open. As I returned to the residence a group of onlookers were now on the scene."

If people took the lawyer's statement to mean that she never spoke to Crowley that was their mistake. Her focus was always on the words in Crowley's police report.

[godai]

4. But then she hired Wendy Murphy.

Hardly the lawyer to use if you really want to avoid controversy. Otherwise, I admire Whalen for her conduct. I just think she sees $$$ for her at the end of the day.

http://www.newshounds.us/2009/03/26/who_is_wendy_murphy_and_why_does_she_hate_oreilly_protestors.php


(Murphy) “Stop with the presumption of innocence. It doesn’t apply to Duke . . . When they make administrative decisions about student behavior they don’t owe them any due process.” “I’m really tired of people suggesting that you’re somehow un-American if you don’t respect the presumption of innocence, because you know what that sounds like to a victim? Presumption you’re a liar.” “How about the defense attorneys shutting up.”

For those who don’t know, Wendy Murphy made quite a name for herself during the Duke rape case, trumpeting far and wide that of course the Duke three were guilty as hell of raping Crystal Magnum. According to KC Johnson, professor of history at Brooklyn College and the CUNY Graduate Center (teaching 20th century US political, constitutional, and diplomatic history), his Lexis/Nexis search of her case-related appearances turned up at least 18 occasions in nine months where Murphy made demonstrably untrue statements as well as engaging in “a pattern of wholly unfounded speculation and … routinely denigrated due process.” Even Foxnews.com got in on the act, harshly criticizing Murphy for defaming, and continuing to defame, the Duke lacrosse players even weeks after the charges were dropped, in defense of what the author called the “paradigm of victimhood” by which Murphy earns her living.

"A lot of people don't get convicted and they're guilty” . “I think Hitler was never convicted either. How innocent was he?" ... 'Innocent until proven guilty' is a presumption in a rule of law that is applied in a courtroom. It doesn't really work in the real world. We, in the real world, are allowed to think what we want. I'm allowed to think that Hitler is guilty.. that OJ is guilty and I'm allowed to think Michael Jackson... "
then made the outrageous statement that Jackson's multi-million dollar settlement in 1993 - which was entirely legal - not only made her think he's guilty, "I call that obstruction of justice."

[Jennicut]

7. Terrible choice for a lawyer. I like Whalen but Murphy came off as

a bit nutty. Thanks for the background info.

[John Q. Citizen]

10. Your guilt by association smear is a stretch. Which lawyer do you suggest she should have retained?

And why do you get to choose her lawyer for her?

Why do you even care?

What's your agenda?

[godai]

14. Just suggesting we not crown her St. Lucia.

Why do you care what my opinion is and over react to a simple post describing facts about her lawyer?

Why do you post such illogical questions?

[John Q. Citizen]

17. I haven't been following the story that closely. However, I wouldn't presume to

suggest or attribute motivations to someone I don't know and have no knowledge about.

Personally, I could care less if somebody crowned her St. Lucia, and conversely, I could care less if someone didn't crown her St. Lucia.

That is why I asked you what your agenda is; Because I don't know what it is. But it's obvious that you don't want anyone crowning her St. Lucia, and I'm wondering why you care?

If you don't like the questions, you of course are under no obligation to answer them.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

38. Has it occurred to you that REAL attorneys are expensive?

I dislike Wendy Murphy as much as anyone but I don't blame Whalen, a private individual of limited means, for taking free legal representation offered in a time when her name is dragged through the mud, her career is threatened and her life is threatened.

Frankly, I wouldn't blame her one bit if she went after some bloggers for some of the vile shit they said and/or did.

[godai]

41. Yes, but there are probably thousands of attorneys willing to take this case pro bono.

She chose Wendy Murphy, high profile and controversial.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

44. I doubt she had a thousand knocks on her door.

Murphy, Geragos, Allred et. al. are vultures that prey on people like her.

Furthermore, has it occurred to you she might not live in the enlightened world of DU and cable tee vees and Faux News?

I bet if I asked 10 of my friends about Wendy Murphy 7 would have a blank stare.

Honestly, I forgot all about Murphy - probably because I stopped watching Faux News for entertainment - I guess Gloria Allred was busy.

[Romulox]

31. She's not acting like someone who *doesn't want publicity*

Her muckraker attorney is a media relations specialist, not a litigation specialist, that's for sure.

[quiller4]

53. Media is not her attorney's speciality. The attorney is a board member

for the non-profit magazine where she works. That is how the two know each other.

[Romulox]

54. That's funny. From the site hawking Ms. Murphy's book:

Wendy has worked as a legal analyst for CBS News, CNN, Fox News and MSNBC. She appears regularly on cable and network news programs to provide commentary on legal news stories.

http://andjusticeforsome.com/Home_Page.html

She's well known to me from her many cable TV appearances.

[rvablue]

66. Maybe she didn't "hire" her. Whalen is a fundraiser, not the highest paying gig in town.

Maybe this lawyer offered her services and since she does seem to be such a media hound, which frankly is what Whalen largely needed help with, Whalen accepted her servies pro bono.

[fascisthunter]

5. she did nothing wrong....

[justiceischeap]

9. Funny, two guys who could be said did the wrong thing get to meet the President

The one person who does the right thing doesn't. Not only that, she gets vilified by the left (until the 911 tape came out).

No wonder there's such a stench of corruption everywhere there is some type of authority. The good guy gets ignored while the bad guy(s) gets a beer...

[Fire1]

12. That's one person's opinion. I don't think the President acted

badly. I think he acted as honestly as Ms. Whalen.

[BonnieJW]

18. If my neighbors saw my house possible being burglarized,

I would hope they would call the police. I would do the same for them.

[ieoeja]

24. She did one thing wrong. Her description of possible intruders was lacking.

When I saw a middle-aged, long-brown-haired, White male following and shouting abusive language at two Black teenagers, one male the other female, I didn't skip the racial part of the description because I was afraid of offending someone. It may not be important that the perp was White and the victims Black, but those facts were sure as fuck important in identifying the people involved. Same with the age, gender, and hair color and length.

When I saw three teenage, possibly Hispanic, males with short, black hair, one wearing a blue hoodie with the hood down and another wearing a shirt with broad horizontal red and white stripes spray-painting a dumpster, I identified them as such. Again, what they looked like or were wearing has nothing to do with the crime, but it's pretty damned important in locating and identifying them.

So I fault her for NOT describing the possible intruders as dark-skinned. Giving an accurate description isn't offensive, labelling, whatever. It is merely a description.

[Enrique]

25. and if she isn't sure, she should say she isn't sure

which is what she did.

[Romulox]

30. Where does the "one may be hispanic" fit into that then?

She was both incorrect and unsure about that detail...

[opihimoimoi]

37. ...she did say "maybe"...and seems like she just wanted to describe what she was seeing accruately

[Romulox]

39. Right. But she wasn't accurate. So she wasn't nearly as "careful" as is being made out

She identified one of the subjects by "race"; but it was the wrong one.

Now she tries to paint herself as someone who wouldn't identify the subjects by race. It's not consistent.

[opihimoimoi]

42. She did not ID by race....she was not definitive....she said ..."Maybe"...

It was Crowley who is not consistent when he filed a report now looked at with a jaundiced eye

[Romulox]

50. That's a distinction with little difference. If she HAD been certain, then she would have

apparently had no qualms about identifying the race of Professor Gates and his driver...

[opihimoimoi]

55. The Lady is a Hero in my mind...she did exactly what many of us would

[Romulox]

58. I've called 911 before. I'm no hero.

Not really criticizing Ms. Whalen, but I don't see where she is coming from. She claims she "never said two black men", but she DID say "maybe hispanic". So presumably, if she had gotten a good look at the two men, she would have identified them as black. Which is what any reasonable person would do--give as accurate a description of the "suspects" (albeit persons incorrectly suspected) as possible.

But she came out swinging saying that she "never said two black men" as if it would have been wrong for her to identify them as black if she had gotten a good look. Very odd, considering she identified one of the "suspects" by race (though incorrectly) in the 911 tape.

In summary, this person is neither a hero nor a villian. She's a person who dialed 911 and did her best to communicate to an operator who came off as less than professional. Kudos, etc. But if she shows up in one more news cycle, my suspicion that she hired Wendy Murphy to work the media will be piqued.


:shrug:

[opihimoimoi]

62. Here is a Lady clearly upset by many hateful calls and e mails...she just wanted to clear the air

Its Crowley who needs examining...look for the Nits on him...it now is apparent he fucked up the official report with distortions, errors.

This is why he is bringing in a lawyer to the beer fest....now no longer a Fest...more like damage control...Crowley seems to be a BULLY infected with NPD

[polmaven]

70. And do you find fault with that?

n/t

[Romulox]

77. Not in the least. I took Whalen's impassioned denials to mean that SHE felt there was

some fault there. Her hiring an attorney to assert the same message only tended to reinforce this inference...

[polmaven]

69. I cannot BELIEVE

people here are still going after this poor woman. We do have some really mean spirited people around here lately, don't we?

I completely agree with you that Ms. Whalen did exactly the right thing. I don't understand why so many are still attacking her so viciously.

[opihimoimoi]

82. Bullyism at its worst.....instilling FEAR CARD, CONTROL CARD, and DENIGRATION CARD

[Romulox]

87. Are you talking about *me*? I thought I was just talking about this on the internets

Is that not allowed? :shrug:

[opihimoimoi]

89. Wasn't refering to you....Crowley and Bully Crowd

[Hassin Bin Sober]

40. The 911 operator pressed her twice for the race.

Has anyone seen the driver yet? IIRC, he is Moroccan - possibly "Hispanic looking"???

[TorchTheWitch]

84. Gates said his driver is a light skinned black man

certainly a light skinned black man could be misidentified as possibly being Hispanic.

[seabeyond]

45. maybe from afar he didnt look black so witness was hesitant, could not be sure. per gates

My driver is a large black man. But from afar you and I would not have seen he was black. He has black hair and was dressed in a two-piece black suit,

http://www.theroot.com/views/skip-gates-speaks

[Romulox]

49. I'm not quibbling with her accuracy. I'm quibbling with her "carefulness"

and her alleged unwillingness to identify suspects by race.

[seabeyond]

59. omfuckinG... lol lol. you have a "quibble" with the fact she didnt have an answer to give, so????

what, you wanted her to "make one up"

this one is new

whateVAH

[Romulox]

76. I'm just pointing out that Whalen DID identify the race of one of the suspects.

She just got it wrong.

[seabeyond]

80. .

[polmaven]

72. That unwillingness is

being "alleged" only by you...and maybe one or two others.

[Romulox]

75. Nonsense. She implied that she would not have identified Gates and his driver by race

if she could, with the "I never said two black men" comments.

[polmaven]

79. She said

"I never said two black men", because she never said "two black men", and yet people have been calling her all sorts of nasty names, including "racist". Hell, she has even been threatened. Her intention was to point out to those jerks that she is NOT a racist. There was no implication that she would not have identified the race if she knew the race.

She hired a lawyer because she was probably expecting to have to defend herself legally against a civil rights lawsuit.

[TorchTheWitch]

86. It was Murphy who made it more than implied

Murphy said that Whalen would never identify anyone by race because she is "olive-skinned" and therefore personally sensative about such things. Interestingly, Whalen appears as white as her husband and her attorney. It was this statement by Murphy that the cop haters pointed to as proof that Crowley lied about having a conversation at all with Whalen because he identified her as a white woman. Except it turns out that Whalen does indeed look white.

[seabeyond]

46. btw... looks like gates confirms that witness even did THIS right. nt

[EFerrari]

43. That's ridiculous. She coulsn't see that from her vantage point behind them.

She didn't say she wouldn't give a race, she said she couldn't.

[TexasObserver]

48. Her choice of an attorney was bad, but Ms. Whalen seems OK.

But other than that, Ms. Whalen seems fine.

Wendy Murphy is a "law professor" at one of the most pathetic law schools in the nation. She does love to yap it up on TV news every time she gets a chance. She's usually on Fox News or Nancy Grace, saying incredibly stupid things, but she's got a decent client this time.

Kudos to Ms. Whalen, but she could have picked a better attorney by throwing a dart at the Yellow Pages.

[burning rain]

52. Her presser was a truly pitiful display.

Something for South Park. OH GOD OH GOD AMERICA PLEASE PLEASE I'M NOT A RACIST OH GOD OH GOD DON'T HATE ME. And she saw the need to lawyer up, even. God bless America.

[Spazito]

56. Your post is beyond pathetic...

but, sadly, not surprising.

:puke:

[burning rain]

60. Hey, it gives you an opportunity to posture, so it's good for something.

'

[opihimoimoi]

57. Guess who is briging in a lawyer to the beer fest? It ain't the Lady..its Crowley

WTF is wrong with him? Is it FEAR?

[burning rain]

65. That's sad, too.

In a saner alternate reality one might hope that Crowley would just man up -- without lawyering up -- and take whatever (probably mild) sanction he'd get for having made what was pretty clearly an illegitimate arrest.

[polmaven]

74. Maybe he thinks he needs

protection from bogus lawsuits stemming from the meeting?

[seabeyond]

61. just a thought. could the lawyering up be as much cause she is contradicting a police and police

report?

i would be more concerned contradiciting a cop than say OH GOD OH GOD AMERICA PLEASE PLEASE I'M NOT A RACIST OH GOD OH GOD DON'T HATE ME.

but then, what the hell to logic when defending the cops

[burning rain]

73. I've made made it clear in numerous posts that I find Crowley's arrest of Gates illegitimate.

'

[rvablue]

67. You are a pitiful display. This woman called in what she thought might be a crime in progress

and has suffered national scrutiny over her very innocent and quite noble (in this day and age when people don't look out for their fellow man) action.

[burning rain]

68. I think she acted properly in calling 911.

But I find it extremely distasteful to see someone grovel in public, as she did at her presser. People ought to respect themselves more.

[mamaleah]

81. She should instead tell all those that are calling her a racist to go

piss off, because they are morons.

[TheKentuckian]

63. Ahh...more contortions to excuse Crowley

People are fucking stupid. Why demand a police state?

[Enrique]

71. demanding a police state

at first reading that seems like a foolish thing to write, but maybe I'm wrong.

So explain if you care to, who is demanding a police state?

[TheKentuckian]

85. Not the OP

but I feel if you find ways to excuse police overstepping their bounds or sympathize with arresting citizens for voicing their opinions to shut them up then you are by your actions demanding a police state, purposefully or not.

[ColbertWatcher]

83. The Screeching Attention Whore gets the grease ... wait ... something's not right ... n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

88. Obama should have invited her for a beer.

Her and the mysterious anonymous hispanic guy she saw breaking into the house.