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Mortos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 04:14 AM
Original message
2 Deputies die in the line of duty
Since so many people here revel in slamming the cops every chance they get, I thought I would post something which shows what officers face every day they come to work. They don't know if the call they are going on will be the last thing they ever do. If they will see their families and children again or if they will be sued or fired for making a mistake in a split second decision.

I am not asking anyone to forgive corrupt or illegal behavior, I am just saying police officers are human beings that make mistakes, have egos, do stupid things but most of the time, they are men and women who do a job many people wouldn't for relatively low amounts of pay. They deal with and see the worst of humanity and occasionally the best. Most try to help deserving folks as much as they can and catch the bad guys and take them to jail knowing many will be back out on the streets before they finalize their reports.

The deputies who were killed worked for a small county east of Oklahoma City. They probably didn't make more than $30,000 a year. The younger officer, at 23, had been a deputy for a little over a year. They got a call to serve a warrant on a 23 year old domestic violence offender and went. They were both shot to death at the front door of a house in response to that routine call.

http://newsok.com/deputiesdieddoingwhat-they-loved-sher...

SEMINOLE, Oklahoma -- Prosecutors are seeking the death penalty against an Oklahoma man charged with first degree murder for the shooting deaths of two Seminole County deputies.

Ezekiel Holbert, 26, was charged Monday for the shooting deaths of deputies Robbie Chase Whitebird and Marvin Williams.

Most cops and deputies aren't evil fascist intent on doing you harm or violating your civil rights. Most are men and women trying to do a very difficult job to the best of their ability. Most would give their lives defending someone they don't know. For every story of corrupt officers, there are hundreds if not thousands of stories of bravery and sacrifice, kindness and service. Those stories just don't get covered or talked about much outside law enforcement communities.

The deaths of Williams and Whitebird makes 6 law enforcement officers killed in the line of duty nationwide in the last 8 days, 73 this year.

http://www.odmp.org /

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vadawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 04:16 AM
Response to Original message
1. amen
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paulsby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 04:19 AM
Response to Original message
2. i had many of the prejudices and misconception about law enforcement
that many here have, when i was younger. i went on a couple of police ridealongs, and they COMPLETELY changed my viewpoint. it was a "click" moment.

i challenge people to this all the time. how many have actually gone along on a ride along and see what cops do and deal with firsthand? i would suggest next to none.

it's not frigging difficult, assuming a local agency of yours allows them. mine does. we also run a citizen's academy.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 04:25 AM
Response to Original message
3. It's a dangerous job
Edited on Wed Jul-29-09 04:25 AM by depakid
Made moreso due to the proliferation of guns and hate radio in the United States.
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vadawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 04:33 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. not sure of the correlation of the hate radio thing
unless in my case you mean fuck tha police rap, as that seems to be the mindset of the bangers i deal with.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 05:07 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. You must not recall the shootings in Pennsylvania
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vadawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 05:13 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. you must not realise that i am more likely to be shot or shot at by someone
who buys into the gangsta lifestyle and lives the gangsta music than someone who listens to rush limbaugh, so im surprised that you think that conservative radio makes it more dangerous for cops. I still cant see your reasoning, its not like conservative radio is saying go shoot cops...
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 05:40 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Maybe a link would refresh your memory
A gunman wearing a bulletproof vest and "lying in wait" opened fire on officers responding to a domestic disturbance call Saturday, killing three of them and turning a quiet Pittsburgh street into a battlefield, police said.

Police Chief Nate Harper said the motive for the shooting isn't clear, but friends said the gunman recently had been upset about losing his job and feared the Obama administration was poised to ban guns.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/04/police-several...
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Mortos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 07:44 AM
Response to Reply #11
27. Actually G. Gordon Liddy did just that
He said to shoot federal law enforcement officers or "jack booted thugs" in the crotch and then double tap them in the head.

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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #11
36. Do you have any stats to prove that?
And what type of radio did McVeigh listen to I wonder.

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madmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #3
39. The 10 most dangerous jobs in America
Loggers and fishermen faced the most daunting odds of dying at work in 2002, but the highways remained the most dangerous place for American workers.

http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/invest/extra/P63405...

Policing does not make the top 10. Are these two death tragic? Sure, but anyone who watches "Cops" knows they love the adrenaline rush and they wouldn't want to do anything else. Highway workers know it is dangerous but get up and go to work anyway without the adrenaline rush rewards.
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Cid_B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 04:52 AM
Response to Original message
5. Well surprise surprise surprise...
Guess which threads get 200+ replies and which ones get 4...
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Mortos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 05:10 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. I don't understand your response
would you care to elaborate?
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Cid_B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 06:10 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. I'll be more specific
The average thread on DU over the last few days has been filled with post after post bashing cops. Yes, there have been those who have "defended" them, to include myself. (The idea that they need defending is silly at best but that is another topic)

However, a thread clearly pointing out the threats and dangers and sacrifices that the law enforcement community deals with every day gets a whopping 4 replies ( at the time of my initial post )

I say that it shows the general mindset of this forum. It is a mindset of victimization, whining and blatant obtuseness. In other words it is the reaction when reality doesn't mesh with preconcieved notions and biases and the result is page after page of rationaliztion and whining.

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Cid_B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 04:52 AM
Response to Original message
6. Well surprise surprise surprise...
Guess which threads get 200+ replies and which ones get 4...
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 05:00 AM
Response to Original message
7. If ninety nine cops are good, and one is bad, does mentioning the good cop excuse the bad?
that seems to be your logic, here.

try applying the same thing to citizens. If ninety nine citizens are good, and one is a criminal, do the cops NOT arrest the criminal because of the ninety nine law abiding citizens?


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Mortos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 05:09 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. No 99 good cops don't excuse the behavior of one bad cop
Edited on Wed Jul-29-09 05:21 AM by Mortos
but neither does 1 bad cop make 99 good ones bad and that is the attitude of many here. Cops are fascists!!! Cops are criminals!!! Cops are liars!!! There is no distinction between good and bad just ignorant generalizations that, if applied to a race, gender or sexual preference would not be tolerated.

I believe I stated I wasn't trying to excuse bad or criminal behavior.

Your question doesn't make sense nor does the rabid anti-police attitude exhibited by many members of DU.

The point of my post was to recognize 2 officers who died in the line of duty and point out that officers face the possibility of death every day.

Thanks for failing to acknowledge the fact that two people were killed who happened to be police officers. Their families will have to somehow make it through their grief without your condolences because your distrust and hate of police runs so deep, you weren't able to express a simple human kindness before you went on the attack to prove a political point.
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newfie11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 05:55 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. Thank you for posting this
Edited on Wed Jul-29-09 06:00 AM by newfie11
I agree about the "attitude" on DU regarding police. As far as I am concerned these men and women that risk their lives everyday are underpaid and deserve more respect. Lots of people hate cops until they need one!
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 06:03 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. And how do you characterize your use of these two deaths to prove a political point?


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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 06:14 AM
Response to Reply #9
17. point of my post was to recognize 2 officers who died in the line of duty . no
Edited on Wed Jul-29-09 06:36 AM by seabeyond
no. it wasnt. and shame on you. your point was to use these police officers death to continue a fight, argument on this board.

i dont know when i last was so disgusted with a poster op
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Mortos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #17
24. Well, I will just have to somehow struggle through knowing you are disgusted with me
Edited on Wed Jul-29-09 07:34 AM by Mortos
I could really care less what you think of me and, yes my point of the post was to make a statement to counter those here who seem to hate all cops and lump all cops together. There are plenty of posters who write, "fuck the police" and "cops are fascist". They don't distinguish between good and bad.

The tone and wording of your post is indicative of the emotional overreaction this topic causes. You have never been more disgusted by a post? Really? Never. My defense of police officers and recognizing two killed in the line of duty is the MOST disgusting thing you have ever read on this website? You are either being overly dramatic or dishonest.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 07:44 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. emotional overreaction?
Edited on Wed Jul-29-09 07:47 AM by seabeyond
two people died and i am emotionally over reacting?

let me say that all your post does it shut people up, turn away from the post, do the exact opposite of what you say your goal is. so you fail

yes there are people that say fuck cops ect.... and there are reasons they feel that way, generally cause of experience with police that have led them to feel that way. you dismissing there feeling do nothing productive. i personally dont like the fuck the cops post. but i dont like the fuck the christian, fuck the repug, fuck the.... anything posts. without communication, acknowledgment of issues we will solve nothing. we will never heal. it will fester and grow bigger

you say you do this cause of support of police. i say your post is most damaging to the police that you claim you support.

there are legitimate concerns what is going on in our police force. to ignore and deny do nothing to help the police. to pretend the abuses arent there does nothing to help the police. to allow it to continue and blindly support causes the police more harm than the "fuck police" group. i state that my position is in more support of the police than your op ever could. my goal is for an environment where all areas are winners. civilians, community, police.

and i am being neither, overly dramatic or dishonest.

i feel a dishonesty thru out your post.... hence my disgust that you would do that using these officers deaths. it is exactly this situation that the police need the community behind and with them, .... and yet they dont. why? cause there is nationwide anger that you demand ignored
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Mortos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 07:57 AM
Response to Reply #26
29. What is dishonest in my post?
Please enlighten me. Show where I said bad or illegal behavior should be ignored. In fact, if you read my op, I clearly state that there is no defense for illegal behavior by police officers.

The community is squarely behind these officers and their families as are the surrounding agencies and departments and that won't be changed by anything I type.

I think you give too much power to my post and this site to sway public opinion. The cop haters will still hate cops no matter what you or I say here.

I just wanted to recognize these deputies' sacrifice in a forum not known for celebrating law enforcement. If that offends you, that is your problem not mine. The rational people took the post for what it was meant to be and responded appropriately. The haters did exactly what they do on every post involving police...overreact and attack.

Guess which category you fall into?
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. no different than the "fuck the cops" post
you exactly made my point for me. you didnt respond or think about what i posted. you ignored it all. and merely preached your same old tired

"you hate the cop" crap

in that, you dont have to address a single issue that may cause you discomfort or effort in resolving issues. the lazy man.

respond, dont.... i will respectfully leave this thread alone. we are talking about two people who lost their lives. i can feel empathy for the loss. and no desire to mess that up or this thread.

i thought maybe... a little balance could be a good thing. productive thing. i can only try, put it out there, and then what is, is.

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TorchTheWitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 06:23 AM
Response to Reply #9
19. +1
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 06:26 AM
Response to Reply #9
21. in your OP you referred to the posts critical of other Police Officers, you ddin't just post this
for the purpose of recognizing their officers in itself.

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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #9
33. stop trying to demonize me and put words in my mouth I never said
doesn't help your argument.
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Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #9
35. I find your use of the two dead cops in order to make some point about the opinion of those who
don't share your opinion on the worship of the police as an institution revolting. This entire OP is offensive on every level.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 06:12 AM
Response to Original message
16. people are slamming officers for the wrongs they do
Edited on Wed Jul-29-09 06:15 AM by JI7
what you posted doesn't change anything. is anyone calling for doing away with all police officers ?
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Cid_B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 06:16 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. No problem but I expect a long list of all the good deeds as well...
I think DU will have to increase its storage capabilities...
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 06:23 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. they should do their jobs , just as waiters, teachers, doctors etc
are expected to do .

usually when people don't do their jobs as they should there are stories about it and people are critical.

this story doesn't change the problems with many police officers.
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Cid_B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 06:49 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. Again.. go nuts if it makes you happy...
But its the same for cops as it is for waiters, teachers, doctors...

Thats a pretty shitty way to treat people if all you do is focus on the 1% bad and ignore the good that is done every day all day.

Do a DU google for the word police and I just wonder what the ratio of celebration of meritorious achievement is as compared to complaints about how they operate. I'm going to take a wild guess here and say that it won't be the aforemention 99-1 ratio.

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Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #18
37. Why? I don't go about making long lists of all the instances people in other
profession do their job competently. No do I pat my nephew on the head every time refrains from hitting his sister. Why? Because that's what the hell they're supposed to do! Are the already over-stroked egos of the police so fragile that they need a cookie every time they do what they're supposed to do?
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Mortos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 07:59 AM
Response to Reply #16
30. Yes, some are
I have read posts where people write things like "fuck all the police" and "all cops are fascists" some advocate getting rid of all police.
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4lbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 06:34 AM
Response to Original message
22. 99% of cops are good and decent, doing their jobs well. However, that 1% really screw things up.
Edited on Wed Jul-29-09 06:38 AM by 4lbs
Bashing a cop in the bad 1% doesn't mean we are bashing the 99% that are good.

At least I'm not. That's why my 'bashing' has been directed at just one officer, Crowley, instead of police in general.

Heck, when I was 5 years old, I got lost in a shopping mall and it was a police officer (a white male!) who noticed and stayed with me until my parents arrived. He even bought me an ice cream cone.

So, I realize that the vast majority of police do their jobs as best they can under dangerous situations. However, I also realize that there will always be that 1% that screw things up badly.


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JohnnyLib2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 07:43 AM
Response to Original message
25. Thanks for posting this.

It's the reality that every family with law enforcement personnel lives with daily.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 07:49 AM
Response to Original message
28. Domestic violence are the ones that are the most dangerous.
Was the case with the professor a call to inspect a domestic violence situation?
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Ikonoklast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 08:04 AM
Response to Original message
31. It looks like they may not have used enough caution, based on this guy's history.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...

They must have known his arrest history, violent tendencies, and using a weapon during the commission of a crime.

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Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
34. You assume we don't know what they go through.
The problem was and still is we also know what they do. The whole premise on which you post this otherwise tragic story is specious.
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
38. Fishermen have a higher casualty rate.
Police are not even in the top ten.
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
40. You know what bugs me?
Posts about Limbaugh's drug use get 200+ replies. But if you post a thread about a conservative talk show host not being addicted to drugs, it gets almost no replies at all.

;)
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