We started out cheering as we dreamed of single payer. Then we happily accepted the public option.

[Stinky The Clown]

Now it seems we will be getting stuck with some bullshit that goes nowhere .... except to increase the wealth disparity and provide an illusion of universal coverage.

And we're all supposed to be grateful for this.

Yeah .........

[Tangerine LaBamba]

1. You hear Dr. Dean on Rachel a little while ago?

The party's over.

The lobbyists have made their points, the compromise has been reached, the bullshit will flow, and we're exactly where we were yesterday.

K&R, as usual...........

[Eric J in MN]

3. Is Dr. Dean pessimistic that we'll get a bill which will do any good? NT

NT

[madfloridian]

11. He was highly critical of the Senate and of Dems who were selling out.

Which is really ironic considering he is a target of the left now.

[madfloridian]

13. Here is a quote from Dean on Rachel's show tonight. "fake public option."

"Democrats on the Finance Committee meet Tuesday morning, but already talk of a deal along these lines drew fire from one prominent Democrat – former national party chairman Howard Dean. If the co-op plan and free rider provision make it into the bipartisan compromise, "I fear for the future of health care reform because that is not health care reform," Dean said Monday on MSNBC's Rachel Maddow Show.

Instead, he called it “health insurance reform.”

As for the co-op plan, Dean said, "That is what I call the fake public option. And that is a shame."

"This compromise does nothing except reform insurance. It is not worthless because it makes it fair, but it is not health care reform," Dean said.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0709/25505.html#ix...

But then he's being called a liar, so what the heck does he know.

[Eric J in MN]

35. Who is calling Howard Dean a liar? NT

NT

[redqueen]

77. Some single payer advocates. (nt)

[John Q. Citizen]

150. Here's the thread

with a link at the thread OP to the original story
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

And below is another thread with a great piece written by Kip Sullivan who worked for years at COACT (in Minneapolis) and now is on the steering committee of the Minnesota chapter of Physicians for a National Health Program. PNHP are a nationwide group with chapters in many cities across the country. One of our posters is convinced their (the natiuonal organization and all the chapters) whole reason d'etra is to smear Howard Dean. However, if you read the link you will see that Kip Sullivan never even mentions Howard Dean. That doesn't stop out intrepid Dean obsesser from throwing a major tantrum.

Bait and Switch: How the "public option" was sold
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[Deep13]

122. Dean hasn't lied to us yet...

...and that's a pretty rare statement for politicians.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

15. He sounded simply pissed - and

he said that what these compromises have done is to effectively remove health care from the reach of the uninsured.

In short, nothing will change for the uninsured.

I couldn't get any read on how he personally felt about it, but he seemed angry.

He's going to be hosting "Countdown" on Tuesday and Wednesday evenings this week, sitting in for KO. THAT should be terrific............................

[dixiegrrrrl]

64. So, mandatory insurance is NOT on the table?

[Tangerine LaBamba]

76. That's what I got,

but it was all pretty vague - and, to tell you the truth, I was doing something else, and only half-listening - so I can't be sure, sorry.

Watching "Countdown" tonight and tomorrow seems mandatory, though, don't you think? With Dr. Dean hosting?

[dixiegrrrrl]

87. Yes, and thanks for the reminder.

I seldom watch the tv but will set the alarm clock or something tonight.

[Kalyke]

128. If not, what has changed?

No public option.

No mandates.

It's smoke and mirrors.

[voc]

38. Kick n/t

[Mira]

132. Could be at best "Insurance Company reform" . I'm revolted N/T

[dflprincess]

2. Battered voter syndrome

we were so abused during the Bush years that now we'll be grateful for any crumb we're told is being thrown to us (whether the crumb is actually being thrown or not).

[FormerDittoHead]

48. We didn't have the 80 Seat majority in the Senate to do what 75% of the people WANT... n/t

[bobbolink]

70. EXACTLY. And, somehow, that must be our fault.

We're going nowhere until we get corporations out of government!

[dixiegrrrrl]

61. I do like that phrase.

and I think you are right.
ANY teensy gain after the massive losses of rights and powers of the last 20 years WILL seem like
progress.
And in a few years, no one will be alive to remember that once, we did have affordable health care,
low infant mortality, and good education.
Because we do not have good education now, many people have no clue that TPTB are using an historical playbook, that history is repeating itself.

[Grinchie]

106. They would like to burn the History books...

But they really don't have to, because Johnny can't/won't read, and they can blast any message they want out of the boob tube they want, and nobody will call them out for it.

[Old Codger]

119. Not thrown

to us, thrown AT us

[dflprincess]

133. A fine distinction

but a very important one. You are correct.

[Faryn Balyncd]

4. K & R

[HCE SuiGeneris]

5. Damnit-to-hell

Keeping one's chin up is getting to be near impossible.

[Hydra]

6. The Dems weren't supposed to cave

Once we gave them everything they asked for.

The cynic in me says, "What? You knew the score- this isn't our gov't, after all..."

[dflprincess]

8. They really didn't cave this time

they just decided that insurance company campaign contributions were more important than our votes.

Except for Wellstone's campaigns (and McGovern), I have a lot of regrets over all the time and money I've wasted on the Democratic party and its candidates the last 37 years.

[Hydra]

9. You are correct, but...

When they "cave," that means they didn't disapprove of the Republican stuff. It's just playing us while they get what they want.

Which is what happened here.

"We didn't have the numbers to prevent you all from getting screwed by the insurance companies!" *takes money on the side*

[PassingFair]

25. You win an appearance of my favorite cartoon:

We have GOT to CLEAN HOUSE!

[pleah]

57. You get five thumbs up.

Right on the money with that toon. Saddly.

[Blue_Tires]

59. brilliant

[dixiegrrrrl]

62. House cleaning opportunity 2010, they are all up for vote.

36 Senators are up for vote, 34 of them up for six-year terms.
Of the seats expected to be up for election in 2010,
18 are held by Democrats and 18 by REpublicans.

But...not only do we have to defeat the Republicans, we have to replace the
DINOs.

[PassingFair]

63. Get crackin on those Blue Dogs of yours, Dixie!!

I'll take on the "New Dems" up here.

Let's meet up somewhere in the middle!

[dixiegrrrrl]

67. Ala. has 2 Blue Dogs, none in my district. Where are yours?

[PassingFair]

69. I have one reliable Dem and one that is on loan from the DLC.

She votes well most times, but when
she is needed to tip the scales in
the corpo's favor, they call in their
chits.

Meet Debbie Stabenow (D) Michigan

http://stabenow.senate.gov /

She voted for the ruinous bankruptcy laws.

[dixiegrrrrl]

88. "one that is on loan from the DLC."

[truedelphi]

142. I'll add there are fine Dem candidates LOCALLY.

But I won't vote for anyone that is a Tool in the future. Which might require writing my own damn name in.

Gawd I miss Wellstone. They knew what they were doing when they took him out.

Evil bastards.

[Grinchie]

107. Welcome to reality.

[slipslidingaway]

7. knr nt

[Birthmark]

10. I don't even know *what* to say.

I mean, I figured that this would be the way it turned out. But I hoped for better. I'm not sure what to do now.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

16. Do what I'm doing -

feeling sad, feeling used, like the girl who gets asked to the prom, buys the dress, gets her hair done, is all dressed up and ready to go, her parents have the camera loaded, and the boy never shows up.

That's how it seems.

I've watched this too many fucking times in my lifetime. I thought, with the Democratic majority in Congress, that we really had a shot this time. That Obama, like LBJ, would know how to get in there and twist arms, make deals, get it done - the way LBJ got us Medicare and Medicaid. The last time anyone in America got a break on health care.

I can only imagine how Senator Kennedy feels watching all this - his life's work dashed, as he lays dying.....................

[Stinky The Clown]

17. Oh man ...... now ya did it .......

My fervent dream had been that the country could give a meaningful gift to Ted Kennedy:

THE EDWARD M KENNEDY HEALTH CARE ACT OF 2009

Now, as you say, he simply lays there dying ......... what a tragedy. No do-overs. It really makes me terribly sad.





And LBJ. That was a man who knew haw to get shit done in Congress.

[CTyankee]

52. In all fairness, Stinky, LBJ had a unique window of opportunity that Obama does NOT have.

LBJ rammed through Civil Rights and Medicare/Medicaid at a time when the country was in too much grief over JFK's assassination to muster much opposition. And there were also moderate Republicans in those days. Not taking away LBJ's negotiating skills, they were enormous. But the country was not in any shape to go up against him. A few, like my late father, were opposed to it but he quickly learned how wonderful it was when he reached 65. My Democratic mother gave him a hard time when he took Medicare, saying "I thought you were AGAINST Medicare!"

[dixiegrrrrl]

89. Also, LBJ was Senate Leader for years, very very politically savvy.

Great bio of him by Robert Caro, 3 vol.
"Master of the Senate" is one vol. and really eye opening.
I recommend it highly.

Many of the so called Dems who are betraying us are smart politicians who know the system and how to work it.
They are choosing NOT to work it for us, they expect they will always re-elected, so F*** the voters.
There is NO excuse for how they have voted against our interests over the years, and I AM counting the Bushwha era, too.
NO EXCUSES.

[Grinchie]

109. To bad LBJ Sold his Soul to the Military Industrial Complex as well.

This is the same old shit we've seen since the 7 days war, Vietnam and the Gulf of Tonkin.

We are so fucked.

[regnaD kciN]

19. Oh, you'll feel a LOT worse...

...when this bill passes, and you're suddenly required by law to buy a $500-$1000+/month private insurance policy out of your own pocket (since employers won't be forced to cover their employees, none will in a few years) or face a surcharge of 2.5% or more of your gross income for the "privilege" of having no health care.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

21. I'm covered on two fronts -

through two professional organizations to which I belong, and it's great family coverage - the Virginia Bar Association and the Authors Guild.

It's pricey, but we are very lucky to be able to afford it.

The bill stinks.

I am old, and I honestly cannot believe I'm watching this bullshit. Making things even worse................

[dixiegrrrrl]

91. Sure flushes the 60's/70's down the toilet, don't it?

and all those who came before us who worked so hard to get fair laws passed.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

95. I remember when health insurance

just came with the job. All the jobs.

And it was GREAT coverage. Everything was taken care of.

I remember having physicals when I started new jobs, just to qualify for the coverage. That was as much as I needed to do, and then I was insured.

Now, I don't recognize the system. I'm a patient, and I have to ask questions every step of the way. And I'm not stupid. It's just so incredibly convoluted, repetitive, and random.

dixiegrrrrl, I'm glad I'm old.......................

[dixiegrrrrl]

123. I gotta change my name to dixie-decrepit. Medicare eligible in 2 years.

but seriously wondering if the system will be intact by then.
Just my luck.

[Horse with no Name]

97. Mine simply won't cover us once they don't HAVE to

Nobody will--this is what their $1.5 million bucks per day has purchased. Freedom for them.

[FormerDittoHead]

49. But seriously - WHAT GOOD IS THIS 'SYSTEM' WE HAVE FOR *US*?

If the system doesn't want want the vast majority of THE PEOPLE want, and what it ACTUALLY DELIVERS is for the very, very FEW, then why the HELL should *I* give a shit?

If the system is only going to 'give' me what IT wants to give me, then DON'T ASK ME TO GIVE A SHIT ANYMORE.

edit: typo

[RufusTFirefly]

12. We do the same frickin' thing time and time again

We stupidly compromise, ignoring the fact that the Rethugs think we're weak and act accordingly.

We should've gone for single payer and stood our ground. It would've galvanized the nation and made America a better, more compassionate country.

Instead we surrender before the fight even begins and have to spend our time refuting utterly ridiculous claims that the media has a liberal bias or that Obama is a socialist. Republicans think we're easy to bully. And they're right.

Pathetic. The Democrats of today are the Republicans of my youth. And today's Republicans? They're just shameless whackjobs who keep managing to get their way.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

23. I hate to say this,

but we never had a chance. Neither did single payer.

The legislators are in thrall to the lobbyists who dispense their clients' cash, and that is what determines the votes.

You're absolutely right about how the Democrats have devolved. Not a backbone among them, and they're not even ashamed of it.

What I cannot quite come to terms with is that Obama is letting this happen. I honestly thought he'd take a clue from LBJ, call them into the Oval Office, and twist arms. Instead, he was passive, making some speeches, and then comfortably settling in and letting it all belong to the lobbyists.........................

[kiva]

65. LBJ knew how to use the power he had,

he learned from his years in the Senate. Obama has popular support from Americans, but his lack of experience in Congress hurts him in the political arena and that's what we needed for health care reform.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

80. I agree -

LBJ was a pro, Obama is a neophyte, and now it shows. And we pay the price.

I'm rather crushed about this. I had hope this time, I really did.

I'm a fool...............................

[kiva]

92. No more of a fool than I...

I also hoped.

[JDPriestly]

113. To how many people have you actually sent via e-mail or otherwise

a copy of H.R. 676? Do you table for this healthcare plan? What have DUers, you included done about healthcare other than march in parades that don't get reported, watch TV shows about it, write posts about it (to each other). My question in short is, what have you done to persuade five of your family and friends that H.R. 676 or at least the public option will help them?

[JDPriestly]

115. That was my problem with Obama all along . He just does not have

the experience or the relationships. Biden has both but does not have the charisma. Same for Dodd plus Dodd is too dependent on certain business interests. Clinton was too hated by the Republicans to attract swing voters. So, I supported Edwards. I liked Kucinich best but don't think he has the necessary charisma either.

Obama is doing the best he can considering his lack of experience and political power.

I question whether some of Obama's aides are as dedicated to the public option as we believe Obama to be and as he claims to be. Peter Orzag is a question mark, as is Rahm Emmanuel. These are key people in the health care team of the White House, and I question their commitment to the public option. They are the Trojan horses in the Obama administration in my opinion.

[Grinchie]

110. Wouldn't it be wonderful if everyone just scrapped their TV's and read books?

Then all this money hungry media apparatus would have no outlet, and die on the vine.

Just a dream, but it sure does clear the head to be able to turn off the steady stream of Infotainment that does nothing to educate or inform.

[dixiegrrrrl]

127. Bingo!

Computers are at least interactive plus a source of alternative news.

I am so in line with your idea, Grinchie.


I put this quote on another thread, but relevant to what you said:

Many years ago, the population would have marched on Washington, dragged the perpetrators out of their lairs, and strung them up from the nearest lamp posts, but this is not considered possible these days, even if the majority do realize it, because after many years sitting on comfy sofas watching the television, people just don't have the stomach for it.
That might change, however, if the sofa and TV set suddenly vanish.

[Grinchie]

111. DUPE - Forum Error

[zalinda]

121. I don't understand about your disappointment

with Obama. Didn't you read his history? He NEVER lead in any of his political positions. Why would any one think that he would suddenly change his spots? He was mister smooth, NEVER making any waves.

I never could imagine him EVER getting his hands dirty. LBJ, you knew he could and would get his hands dirty. He built a very good legacy. Unfortunately, Obama looks like his ONLY legacy will be "First Black President", and maybe that's enough for him.

zalinda

[GreenPartyVoter]

46. But it's _so_ necessary that the Dems in Congress keep their powder dry. You know, for the important

fights.

[Naturyl]

14. And in the end, we'll just grumble and suck it up.

Because that's what we always do.

Where is the march on Washington for single-payer? I must have missed the invitation...

[Tangerine LaBamba]

18. And let us NEVER forget how Fuckface

misled Teddy on the Medicare supplemental bill, which turned out simply to cost seniors more and increase drug companies' profits.

I won't forget that one, and I know you won't.

Teddy went with the "President" on good faith, and got stabbed in the back. Big surprise, but it was a vile, low move, even by the admittedly non-existent standards of Fuckface.................................

[Jakes Progress]

124. Same thing with Teddy's drive for education.

He signed on to and supported what became NCLB - the neocon's wet dream of a program to produce worker drones and privatize education.

Teddy always had good intentions, but he is the perfect example of what happens when men of good will try to work with the forces of evil. You can't compromise with the devil.

[Stand and Fight]

129. This fight has nothing to do with George W. Bush.

This failure, this "stab in the back" is tragic because ultimately it's not only Senator Kennedy getting stuck, but also millions upon millions of Americans.

[Hannah Bell]

20. as soon as we get a dem majority in the new world gov't, things will turn around.

so go out there & get out the vote, suckers!

[dysfunctional press]

22. when do we start considering candidates for 2012...?

if WHEN we get fucked-over on healthcare, there's NO WAY i'll vote for obama again.

[SammyWinstonJack]

47. I really regret my vote for him.

[redqueen]

78. Even though it's Congress doing it, and he has said over and over he wants a strong public option?

Yeah, that makes sense.

[dysfunctional press]

81. did you listen to his speech the other night...?

in his 8-minute speech outlining what he expected the healthcare bill to include- he never once even hinted at a public option. the only time it was mentioned was when the reporter from the cleveland newspaper brought it up.

when obama starts talking more like bill maher on the subject of healthcare, and less like newt gingrich- i'll start to begin to have an iota of respect for him on the topic.

[redqueen]

82. Yes, and it was bitterly disappointing.

However, that doesn't make it logical to shift the focus entirely onto him.

[dysfunctional press]

84. yes it does- he's supposed to be the LEADER, not the capitulator.

[redqueen]

86. Can't argue with that.

I did expect him to get more passionate about getting a good bill... he seemed to be heading in that direction until the example you cited.

I don't know what happened... but it is disheartening to say the least.

[dysfunctional press]

98. i expected more too...but it's looking more and more like that isn't going to happen...

maybe obama is hoping that people will give their representatives all sorts of hell back home during their august recess...?
he does know a few things about motivating people in the community, after all.

[dysfunctional press]

101. just to add- the town hall going on right now on cnn is fairly encouraging

[Jakes Progress]

125. The best I can do

is think that he is a good man who can't pick good advisors. Over and over he seems to listen to advice from the wrong people about what to do.

[redqueen]

134. Yeah... I don't know why, either. Perhaps DLC influence. (nt)

[glinda]

85. We could have a Repug in office though. We do need someone really strong and

we need more progressives and real Dems in office.

[dysfunctional press]

90. i'd RATHER have a rethug in office than another pretend democrat to string us along...

like my signature line says- "you never catch the dragon"
the 'dragon' in this case being decent healthcare from a democratic administration- they'll keep stringing us along with promises, and 20 years from now we'll still be where we are today.

if we get another heartless soulless rethug in there- they could screw things up even worse in another 4 years and get people pissed off enough to actually revolt.

and it's looking like a revolution is what it's going to ultimately take.

[glinda]

94. Sorry. No Rethugs for me at all. They are just as bad. If not some worse.

[dysfunctional press]

99. i'm more focused on getting society to move in the direction i'd prefer...

and if the faster and more effective way to motivate more people is with another repug administration- so be it.

[BlueMTexpat]

116. No way ... when the choice was between Mr Bomb-Bomb-Everyone

and Ms Vindictive Grifter Quitter.
So I'll not regret my vote last November.
Not. At. All.

**************
I still have hope for the Dems in the House.
And we ALL need to keep hounding those in the Senate.
The Blue Dogs are Done For, so far as I am concerned.
I'll be contributing to their Dem primary opponents. But if they win their primaries and it turns out that the Republican opponent is someone who has an IQ above double-digits, doesn't froth at the mouth and is pro-choice, I may consider contributing to the Republican.
Based on the current representation, however, a Republican candidate who meets those qualifications is a rare individual indeed. But the Blue Dogs don't rank much higher, IMO. Sigh.

[dysfunctional press]

131. i stand by my reasoning.

if they aren't going to give us what we want/deserve/need, then i'd rather have the populace motivated to TAKE it.
and there's no evidence so far that our elected democrats are going to do what we elected and expected them to.

[Seldona]

117. Don't forget the blue dogs in 2010.

Right now that is an even more pressing matter. If we leave these corporate Democrats in office, we will have capitulated. I hope progressive candidates are stepping up to attempt to fill the void. If even 30% of blue dogs lose their seats to progressives, they just might get the message.

They need to understand who they should be working for.

[dysfunctional press]

130. i have no say in the elections of the blue dogs...

although- obama's old senate seat does have a good chance of flipping back to an R in 2010...ESPECIALLY if healthcare gets fucked up.

[AuntPatsy]

24. Your not supposed to be grateful, you are supposed to be outraged enough

that perhaps finally, enough citizens will get together and make their voices loud enough to be heard that when they demanded changed they meant it, what I think is going on is that people are forgetting President Obama's run for the presidency, they are forgetting though no fault of their own being used to it, that it is time to realize if you want something done, you are going to have to do it yourself,

Do not count on one man, because one man cannot fight alone regardless of the foolery of some to believe such is possible...

Did anyone honestly think that President Obama could just waltz alone into that hot bed of criminal mastery which is the center of our own government and just dismantle what years of behind the scene traitorous behaviors has amassed in terms of who gets what?

I cannot count the times that I have heard our president tell us that "we" have to do this, "we" not "he"....he never once said he could fight them alone, not once...

The question is not "are we supposed to be grateful once again for nothing" the question should be.

What are "we" going to do to ensure we get the something.....

[Stinky The Clown]

26. Think about what you just said .......

...... that means there's a need for leadership ....... and pretty much none has been forthcoming.

What ***specifically*** do you propose we do to "get something"?

I've always seen that "we need to push him to get what we want" as the ultimate cop out. Leaders lead. They don't need a push.

[AuntPatsy]

30. I have thought about what I wrote before I wrote it....but this is a different time...

we need leadership? To an extent yes but in looking to one leader, what do you really accomplish? All I see such doing is ensuring that far too many remain followers....

You forget where that man lives....you have absolutely no idea, nor do I about whom honestly is in charge, do I believe one person? No, I do not, I think there are many behind the scene players in washington...powerful players, if the last twenty years of this country's existence has not woken you up to the fact that this is not going to be an easy win then your not paying attention.....not where it counts...


I believe that the last few days should be somewhat of an eye opener about how easy it is too abuse power, how "easy" it is to ensure one's downfall...in this day age, more than easy.....extremely easy......and we as citizens prove every day to the powers that be how easy it is to manipulate and lead...the problem we all have here at this very moment is being unsure of "who" is leading who..


So with that I leave you with this...you want a leader you can trust. think, who can you honestly trust the most in this world?

[whathehell]

45. I agree...He seemed to work a hell of a lot harder on his campaign

than he is on his campaign promises -- at least this one.

[redqueen]

79. THANK YOU! The answer is not bash Obama... it's CHANGE CONGRESS.

Until we do, this will just keep happening.

It's not Obama writing and voting on these bills... it's sold-out Dems and their Repuke buddies in Congress.

[BlueMTexpat]

118. +1!!! And thanks! n/t

[bvar22]

27. There are still clowns selling the "Public Option" on DU,

...and quoting Press Releases written by the For Profit Health Insurance Industry.

K&R

[lumberjack_jeff]

28. You're goddamn right I am.

Undoubtedly, the bill that will pass the House will have a good public option.

The Senate finance committee bill will still have to be reconciled with the HELP bill, and then with the House bill. Aside from the finance committee, there is strong support for a public option.

I still give 60:40 odds that the public option will be in the final bill.

If not, Obama should do what he promised and veto it.

[bvar22]

29. The Bill in the House (HR 3200) contains something....

...labeled a "Public Option".
It is not.

An overwhelming MAJORITY of Americans WILL be Locked Out of the so called "Public Option".

The 72% of Americans who support a "Public Option" are going to be very disappointed when they discover they are NOT allowed to "choose" the "Public Option.".

HR 3200 would be better named "The Health Insurance Industry Profit Protection Bill"

According to the Congressional Budget Office (One of the few credible sources in our government):


*ONLY 10 Million Americans will be covered by the Public Plan by 2019.
Big Insurance should be very happy.
With the MANDATE and only 10 Million in the Public Plan after 10 years, they will be raking in the money.
Billions of it will be YOUR Tax Money buying Resorts and Yachts for the Big Insurance CEOs.

If the Public Plan only enrolls 3% of Americans, will they have any negotiating power to drive down Health Care Costs?

"Most importantly, the CBO coverage tables undermine the conservative claim that a public option would eliminate private insurance and erode employer-sponsored coverage. The House bill actually increases the number of people who receive coverage through their employer by 2 million (in 2019) and shifts most of the uninsured into private coverage. By 2019, 30 million individuals would also purchase coverage from the Exchange, but only 9-10 million Americans would enroll in the public option, the rest would enroll in private coverage."

http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2009/07/14/house-bill... /

*Health Insurance will be mandated for all Americans, but Providers will be able to refuse Public Plan Participants.

Provider participation is voluntary – Medicare providers are presumed to be participating unless they opt out."

*The Public Option "should" be about 10% cheaper than Private Insurance.
I guess that is something, but a Publicly Owned Government Administered Plan that is open to ALL Americans could cut costs by at least 25%. (Difference between Medicare and Private Insurance administration).



*Many that are receiving Employer Based Insurance will be locked out of the "Exchange" and forced to keep their more expensive insurance.

"Under the main health bills being debated in Congress, many people with job-based insurance could find it difficult to impossible to switch to health plans on a new insurance exchange, even if the plans there were cheaper or offered better coverage. The restrictions extend to any government-run plan, which would be offered on the exchange.

<snip>

But critics argue that the rules run counter to suggestions from health care reform advocates that an overhaul could provide people with a broader choice of insurance options. The rules, they say, could be especially unfair to some lower-income workers who are enrolled in costly job-based insurance. Also, they argue, the restrictions would hurt the proposed public plan by limiting enrollment."

http://www.newjerseynewsroom.com/healthquest/for-many-w...

There are many other details that need to be examined, but the one MOST glaring is the prediction that ONLY 10 Million will be enrolled in the Public Option by 2019. That is minuscule compared to what America is demanding.

Do you believe that the 72% of Americans who are calling for a "Public Option" will be satisfied with this?

[lumberjack_jeff]

34. The public will be more dissatisfied with your preferred status quo

Many of them won't survive it, and I abso-fucking-lutely know that our Democratic majority won't. I know y'all have short attention spans, but 6 months is less than I had anticipated for control of Washington DC.

The reason that only 1/4 of the uninsured will choose the public option is because of the way the subsidy is set up. For households under $80,000, there is no incentive to choose the least expensive among otherwise identical plans. To guarantee healthcare to the uninsured, the subsidy should pay the lion's share of the cheapest option.

Once the (best of the bunch) plan is in place, there will be plenty of opportunity to tweak the things that need tweaking for the public plan to gain market share, including Wyden's insurance voucher, Kucinich's state by state single payer and changing the subsidy formula.

Those in private employer-provided insurance will benefit from the protections built into the bill, including the new minimum standards of coverage, the cap on out of pocket costs and the requirement that employers provide 65% of the cost.

The people initially "locked out" of the exchange are those already insured, like you undoubtedly are.

This ain't a game. People are dying here while you purists engage in your circle-jerk.

HR3200
*guarantees a minimum standard of coverage.
*ends "preexisting condition exclusions"
*ends recission, where an insurer can simply cancel your policy because you're not profitable.
*establishes a public option which will compete with private insurance
*caps out of pocket expenses, ending the phenomenon of medical bankruptcy
*essentially eliminates the uninsured
*gives free coverage to the poor.
*establishes affordable coverage to those in the middle income with subsidies paid for by
*a tax on the rich.

[Romulox]

68. You've already been forced to admit that most will not be eligible for the "Public Option"

even if they wish to sign up.

[lumberjack_jeff]

71. I haven't been "forced to admit" anything.

The bill says what it says. We all want instant gratification, but as a starting point, it makes a lot of sense to focus on the uninsured first.

It would be a great shame (not to mention unlikely) if the exchange were not incrementally opened up to large employers and their employees.

Do you think Wal-Mart is going to tolerate being cut off from the cheaper insurance available from the exchange for very long?

[Romulox]

72. Spin the word "forced" as you will; you've admitted it, and it undermines your entire argument.

There is no cost savings via competition with a "public option" open only to a few million.

[lumberjack_jeff]

73. "A few"=100? YMMV

Everyone who is uninsured, unemployed, self employed or works for a small employer is eligible to buy the public option from the exchange, usually at a steep discount. You might consider 100 million people a trivial number (half of whom are currently uninsured) but you are wrong.

The CBO predicts that a modest percentage of those will choose the public option. Other estimates vary.

With small cost-saving tweaks to the subsidy formula, the public option would own the market.

The exchange will make a dramatic difference in the lives of 80% of the 50 million uninsured, and the public plan will keep everyone honest.

Is semantic pedantry a good field of study?

[Romulox]

74. We were speaking of the "Public Option". Nice attempt to change the subject, though. nt

[lumberjack_jeff]

75. No, you were speaking of "eligible".

Want me to play back the tape?

[Romulox]

103. Here's a video that you might enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAzi2GQOGnA

[John Q. Citizen]

152. As currently writen, you are correct the public option in HR 3200 is lame. However;

that is still open to amendments from the floor (if it gets past energy and commerce) and it could be substantially strengthened in committee.

So while the public option assuredly looks useless right now, there is the possibility for something better.

At the very least, it currently has the amendment to allow states to start their own single payer systems, and that's a good thing.

[truedelphi]

143. Thanks bvar. Thorough and rather inclusive report.

I am glad to have this all in one place where it can be referenced.

[Jakes Progress]

126. It will give cover.

It will have something labeled Public Option. But you won't want what they mean when they say it. But it will allow scardey-crats to vote for it and campaign that they voted for Public Option, even though what they call public option is just tax-revenue guaranteed profits for the insurance industry.

That pointy thing sticking out of ou chest is the evidence that we have been screwed from behind.

[autorank]

31. Doesn't take a gratitude meeting to figure that one out.

They's just as soon see us die.

[riderinthestorm]

32. You can look at my post history and see I predicted this.

The best deal makers know you start out with your farthest extreme desire, and grudgingly (in the eyes of your "opponent") WORK to compromise "down".

With single payer off the table to start with, we started out with nothing.

And we'll end up with nothing.

This deal was cooked from day one with single payer off the table, and I blame Obama entirely. This deal was too important to fuck up. And it's fucked up now.

I'm a horse trader by profession and I can smell horse shit from a mile away. Obama fucked this deal up by not starting out demanding single payer. It's possible he could have gotten it if he'd arm-twisted. He'd have been an FDR in history. Akin to Teddy Roosevelt of environmental heroism if he'd stepped up and been brave.

[tomp]

39. agreed, obama is responsible. nt

[Grinchie]

112. Anybody with 1/10th of a working Brain saw this as Screwed from the get go.

But Rainbow dust is very good at obscuring the true perception of reality, and that is of the complete, utter takeover of this Administration by the DLC, and a return to power of the same people that brought us Clinton and Dubya.

Frankly, the DLC should be a distinct Corporate political party, and those who cater to it are both Republican and Democrat alike.

[kirby]

33. Kucinich/Gravel dropped out early...

Not sure why you thought any of the candidates, who all said they opposed single payer, were going to change their mind and push it.

I still think there will be a public option.

[redqueen]

93. Some people still hold out hope that reason will win out over profits...

I'll never give up that hope... but I realize the odds are not in our favor.

[kirby]

105. I would love to see CBO score the single payer option...

Then put that number in the debate on that table for comparison.

[redqueen]

108. Hah, yes... can you imagine?

That's why the CBO will never do that study.

[kevinbgoode]

36. *sigh*..by the time the Dems are done making concessions to the GOP

about the only "public option" we'll have is being forced to go to some wingnut faith healer before being allowed to see a real medical professional.

I'm still waiting for the Benny Hinn Amendment - or the GOP's idea of universal health care.

[Skittles]

37. starting to get it now, Stinky?

[Stinky The Clown]

42. You say that as if Stinky never got it before.

Stinky has "gotten it" long before the primaries were over. LONG before.

[Missy Vixen]

66. Thank you

>Stinky has "gotten it" long before the primaries were over. LONG before.<

And those of us who "got it" were told we were just a) bitter, b) didn't know what we were talking about, c) just weren't willing to get with the program.

And one more time for the cheap seats -- my candidate was Edwards. I never supported HRC. To say that I am disgusted with politics and politicians is the understatement of my lifetime.

[DefenseLawyer]

40. I don't know anyone who seriously believed we were getting single payer.

Dreamed is the appropriate word. I guess I have been more cynical all along. I never thought they would pass serious health care reform. My only hope is they don't actually make things worse.

[Stinky The Clown]

43. Some of us were hopeful back in the days when George Bush was still in power .....

..... and it appeared that a Democrat - then unknown - would succeed in gaining the white house, and that it appeared we could control both houses of congress. By 2006, many of us had real hope.

But then .......

[dgibby]

56. We had reason to be hopeful then,

especially since Obama was FOR single payer before he was AGAINST it. Talk about bait and switch!

[glitch]

96. "My only hope is they don't actually make things worse." that's where I'm at. :( nt

[Warren Stupidity]

41. Our leaders negotiate the terms of their surrender.

They do not even try to win.

[GCP]

44. I feel like I've had a bucket of hot slime thrown in my face

If the dems throw us over on this one - going against the 70% of the population who want a public option - I'm going Green from now on. I'll never vote democratic again. And I've been a lefty my whole life - Labour when I lived in England, Dem here.
I'm seriously considering moving back to the UK because honestly, I think this country is ultimately not interested in its citizens welfare.

[Laelth]

54. My wife and I are considering Canada. I know how you feel. n/t

-Laelth

[KharmaTrain]

50. We?

Believe it or not there are some of us here who weren't head-over-heals about Single Payer. I am just as suspicious of a full government run program as I am of a corporate one. It's trading one gatekeeper for another. A real public option has always offered true competition...enabling those who need coverage to get it while allowing those who want to control their own health incurance the option to do so.

[newtothegame]

51. At least we got to make history last November...I mean that kinda seemed to be the point...n/t

[Laelth]

53. I never accepted "public option" insurance.

I would be completely happy with "public option" health care, like the U.K.'s NHS.

On balance, however, I agree with your sentiment. I am not happy with what's currently being considered in Congress.



-Laelth

[RufusTFirefly]

Even the name "public option" should've told us we were screwed

This would've forced the government to compete on private insurance's terms, which is profits, not care.

The option part should've been private, supplemental care for things like cosmetic surgery. Public should've been the standard for the kind of care that all Americans should be receiving.

[WeDidIt]

55. I'll never vote Dem again if we don't get a public option

Co-Ops = No deal.

[pleah]

58. K&R #50

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

60. The Democrats were given a mandate by the people to enact real healthcare reform

not bandaid health insurance reform. They're not up to it apparently. It's kind of like when Norma Desmond says "It's the pictures that got small" in Sunset Avenue. Our current politicians have no sweep, vision, strength, courage, ethics, etc. to make the BIG changes that are needed and not just the small, self-serving tweaks on the periphery that preserve their personal gravy trains.

[Better Believe It]

102. And it looks like they blew it. Is anyone really surprised?

[Autumn]

153. No not surprised at all. n/t

[PHIMG]

83. Video : Single Payer teach in

Covers the Public Option, and direct action strategies.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[Spider Jerusalem]

100. As far as healthcare goes, I'm grateful that I'm moving to the UK.

[bkkyosemite]

104. I never happily accepted the public option and it is not over till the fat lady sings

HR 676 SINGLE PAYER NOW

[winyanstaz]

114. I am not grateful..and I am not laughing..and I am not happy about this mess!

Once again..we are getting screwed by the polititians on BOTH sides.

[bullsnarfle]

120. UHC

Long time reader, first time poster...

I have given up on there ever being Universal Health Care in
my lifetime.  There are too many, both corporate and
bureaucratic, making way too much money to ever let that
trough get pulled out from under their snouts.  And there
isn't a god damn thing we can do about it.  UHC will not
happen until after the revolution, IMO.

I honestly hope they just end up killing this mess of a
"health care" bill.  By the time