I'd like to apologize, right here, to Lucia Whalen

[Ken Burch]

I admit I thought the worst of her. I now realize, due to this story

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/27/gates.arrest/index.htm...

(which is the subject of its own thread)that Ms. Whalen herself was the victim of Sgt. Crowley's lies, and that I was one of too many people who believed those lied.

Ms. Whalen was not to blame for what Sgt. Crowley did, and I shouldn't have let myself believe that she was. I was wrong.

She should be, as another poster suggested, invited to the Gates-Crowley beer party(if only to pour a beer over Crowley's lying racist head).

[Gwendolyn]

1. She wasn't the "victim" of anyone except all those who went onto message boards...

... and shot their mouths off knowing nothing of what really happened. If you were one of those people, then shame on you.

[MUAD_DIB]

5. But it is still going on.

What comedy I see at DU.

[Gwendolyn]

7. Villagers with pitchforks are easily led.

And then there are those who are cunning enough to lead villagers in any direction they like.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

33. The onion keeps getting peeled,

and more and more "facts" emerge.

They're "facts" until new "facts" are revealed.

And it does go on.

I got my theories, but I'm keeping them to myself.

It's great entertainment, though.............

[yodermon]

37. Don't keep 'em to yourself! c'mon! this is a messageboard

don't toy with us tangerine

[Tangerine LaBamba]

38. It's right in front of everyone's nose -

I have no special information or connection to this matter.

But the obvious is right out there, and I'm enjoying everyone overlooking it.

Especially since there was a hint dropped about it in another thread on this same matter last evening.

Just retrace the known events and consider possibilities. That's the only hint I'm going to give.

I love this.

You're just going to have to consider yourself tickled, my dear...........

[EFerrari]

47. Your gratuitous self-congratulations aren't working out very well so far.

Maybe the rest of your night will be better.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

49. You're hung up on me -

that's so cute.

Like a little puppy, scampering along behind me on those cute, stubby little legs.

I like that......................

[EFerrari]

51. No, actually I'm still nursing the headache I got from your bs on this thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[Tangerine LaBamba]

52. You love me -

admit it - you love me and you follow me around like an adoring little angel.

It's so cute.

You are my darling little flower.....................

[EFerrari]

54. Projection in its purest form.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

64. Come to me, mah leetle flower -

and we shall do the Dance Of The Internet Love..................

[Chulanowa]

10. Sort of

She wouldn't be having mouth-shot fired at her if Crowley hadn't lied about her in the first place.

[Gwendolyn]

19. Not at all. She reported a potential break-in.

Break-ins occur a million times a day, by all sorts of people from different ethnic or racial back rounds. Even if she had specified a skin color, all she did was report a potential burglary in progress. That's it. Perhaps no one should ever report on a potential crime unless if it's being potentially being perpetrated by someone of the caucasian persuasion. In the US, I sure wouldn't after this debacle.

Face it. Nobody ever wants to take responsibility for their shit behavior. So, even though a bunch of people mouthed off without knowing the facts, it wasn't "their" fault. Typical. I'm sure the mobs that lynched people in the past had the same excuse.

[Chulanowa]

84. Oh, it's certainly their own fault

I'm just saying Crowley deserves a big share of the blame, since his false report is hte sole reason for anyone even wanting to put scorn on this woman. Same way with other situations of similar note - the people doing the attacking are certainly responsible for their own mouths (fingers, whatever) but the biggest share goes to the one who made the story up to start with.

[EFerrari]

14. No, that's as wrong as possible. She was JIm Crowley's victim

the man who framed this as a race incident and tried to shift the blame on her.

[LisaL]

22. That's nonsense.

There is nothing in the report to suggest any of the sort.

[EFerrari]

29. LOL. Except his fabrication about her report that went all over the press.

He'll be very lucky if she doesn't sue him.

[Ken Burch]

79. She should be able to get his badge for this.

Crowley used her as a human media shield.

[EFerrari]

82. He did. That's just disgusting. I guess Cambridge needs a new sensitivity guy.

LOL

[Tangerine LaBamba]

34. Also,

everyone is overlooking that there was another witness involved in this matter.

No one noticed that?

Interesting...........................

[EFerrari]

44. You were also wrong as possible and harangued everyone else into the bargain.

We were all knee jerk liberals, a confused mob of irrational people



But nice try at distracting, again.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

48. Shhhh........

Easy does it.

You keep trying to make it personal. That's not good.

You have your opinions, I have mine.

That seems to agitate you.

Terribly sad...............

[ohheckyeah]

55. I believe there was a neighbor who asked Ms. Whalen

to call 911. I think I read it was an elderly neighbor.

[AuntPatsy]

66. the driver,. what is going on with him? have heard no word at all.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

68. He departed after the door was opened -

after, I think, Gates went to the back door and let himself in, and shoved the front door open.

So, the kerfuffle took place after the driver left.......................

[AuntPatsy]

76. So then you must be talking about the officer that the female caller spoke with?

Even with the few facts available from day one, it was more than obvious what had occurred, in the ensuing days, listening and reading and dissecting all that has been revealed, my first initial reaction remains...


Crowley abused his authority period...and with that, I can only hope that such will not become yesterdays news..

[Tangerine LaBamba]

77. I have no idea who that is -

there are contradictory versions. That the caller never spoke with Crowley, and that she did, just to identify herself and for him to say something like "Wait right there." Or some variation thereof.

No, I'm not thinking of an officer.

Some people make up their minds before all the facts are in and are comfortable with that.

Some just keep watching and seeing things unfold and realize that it doesn't matter what they decide.

The one thing I do know is that, if there are two people involved, there will be three versions of the truth: person one, person two, and the reality of what actually happened.

I just love a good story, and watching this one change daily is fascinating......................

[bbinacan]

2. I tip my hat to you.

Too many here will not apoligize when they are wrong. I respect you.

[LisaL]

3. Yea, blame Crowley for this. When in fact

the only thing you had to go on is that she might have said the men were black. Which she disputes.
But even if she did say the men were black (both Dr. Gates and the driver were black after all), how would that make her guilty of racial profiling?

[Maru Kitteh]

23. They played the tape. She said nothing about race until prompted and then said "I don't know" that

one of them looked "maybe kind of Hispanic" but that she didn't really know. She said that she did not get a good look at the second one.

[LisaL]

28. And so?

If she did get a better look (both Dr. Gates and the driver were in fact black), that would have made her guilty of racial profiling?

[Maru Kitteh]

40. No, it wouldn't necessarily mean she was profiling. If I had meant that I would have said it.

I was merely providing information.

[Ken Burch]

105. The point is, the tape proves that Crowley was lying about what she said

why would anyone trust a cop on this?

[MUAD_DIB]

4. Do you ever feel that you and others are being played by CNN, etc.?

Do you believe that they may even be doing it right now to fan the flames and keep the story airborne?

It's great titillation, but it hurts in the long run by taking our eye off of the health care debate.

[EFerrari]

12. Racism in America is not a distraction if it happens to you.

[Hydra]

6. You didn't know

But perhaps you can take from this a useful lesson- distrust authority. It's hard to go wrong doing that.

And I think Lucia Whalen appreciates that her efforts to keep her name clean are acknowledged and accepted.

[LisaL]

8. How about taking a lesson from it of not accusing people of

being racist at a drop of a hat?

[Hydra]

13. I'm not sure of what you're referring to

Crowley apparently does have some sort of race issue in this, or he was just being an asshole. If the OP came to Crowley's defense at the expense of Whalen due to assuming no wrongdoing on his part(because he's a cop), then it's just a matter of misplacing the appropriate blame.

[LisaL]

18. Too all the people on DU who claimed this woman engaged in

racial profiling.
Based on nothing. There is nothing in the police report to suggest she engaged in racial profiling, even if she did tell Crowley the men appeared black (which she disputes).

[Hydra]

25. She never talked to Crowley

And the 911 tape doesn't mention it.

*laughs* I'm actually surprised that there haven't been comments about Whalen for suggesting that one of them might have been Hispanic.

[LisaL]

26. She did talk to Crowley.

She denies saying the men appeared black, but she did talk to him.

[Hydra]

53. Incorrect

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Attorney Wendy Murphy, who represents Whalen, also categorically rejected part of the police report that said Whalen talked with Sgt. James Crowley, the arresting officer, at the scene.

"Let me be clear: She never had a conversation with Sgt. Crowley at the scene," Murphy told CNN by phone. "And she never said to any police officer or to anybody 'two black men.' She never used the word 'black.' Period."

Crowley spun a story out of whole cloth.

[LisaL]

57. They did talk, according to the same Murphy's quote published by NYT.

“She didn’t speak to Sergeant Crowley at the scene except to say, ‘I’m the one who called,’ ” said the lawyer, Wendy J. Murphy. “And he said, ‘Wait right there,’ and walked into the house. She never used the word black and never said the word backpacks to anyone.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/28/us/28gates.html?hp

[Hydra]

63. Possible I suppose

The quotes are contradictory, but the first opens the possibility that she did indeed speak with Crowley.

*Shrugs* Either way, none of it supports Crowley's position in the least.

[EFerrari]

21. You mean, like not accusing the racist cop that dragged race into his report

to justify his bad arrest? You mean, like that?

No ma'am.

[LisaL]

24. More like accusing a person of racial profiling because she called in a

possible break in. More like that.

[EFerrari]

31. You mean, because Jim Crowley made it look as if she called in a report

about two black men?

Yeah, more like that.

What a coward he is.

[LisaL]

32. Crowley's report says nothing regarding what she told 911.

[EFerrari]

42. And that's the spin his people tried to put on it last night, isn't it?

[Mythsaje]

9. Distrust authority...

Good advice. Too bad a majority here on DU don't seem to know that as well as we do.

[Hydra]

20. Why would they?

That would require them to consider that society isn't as safe as they were taught it was. It's a scary thought, really.

[Mythsaje]

41. Well, it certainly wasn't ever anything I was taught... n/t

[Gwendolyn]

11. Distrust mob mentality goes a long way too. n/t

[EFerrari]

15. When you're ready to give it up, let us know. n/t

[Gwendolyn]

45. What do you mean? I respect you and am interested to know.

[Hydra]

16. Quite true

Nothing is worse than a group who "knows something" despite all evidence. The evidence was not favorable to Crowley to begin with, and it's just looking worse for him as we go. Too bad Obama stepped back from his blunt(and well deserved) honesty in this matter.

[Bjorn Against]

17. What does this have to do with mob mentality?

[Gwendolyn]

30. It has to do with mob mentality in the sense that people came onto message boards...

... and FLAYED this woman alive, although in the verbal sense. Not knowing what the circumstances were, di nada, rien, nichts. They did a huge pile on, and in days past, there was no internet for people to just sort of sit around their living rooms and post on the internet. In days gone by, people actually pulled others out of their homes, tortured and killed them because they were accidently caught up in something that flew out of proportion.

[Bjorn Against]

39. Sorry I misunderstood your previous post...

This woman did get piled on unfairly, the police got the criticism they deserved but there was never any evidence this woman ever did anything wrong. I am glad to say that I have never said a negative word against her.

[Gwendolyn]

43. Me too. I'm glad I didn't either.

Herd mentality, or mob mentality, is a terrible thing, and it works in many different ways.

Today, it's ruin someone's reputation over the internet, yesterday it was kill people physically. But the sentiment is the same.

[Stephanie]

27. Thank you!

That was me that suggested she be invited to the WH for beers, and I truly hope she is! K&R!

[blogslut]

35. I accused her of being a Gladys Kravitz

And now, after having listened to her 911 call and reading her statement that she barely spoke to Crowley and never mentioned black men or backpacks, I was wrong to call her that.

At this point, it looks like Crowley may have embellished his police report in order to justify a bad arrest.

[EFerrari]

46. She looked like that because that's how Jim Crowley framed her in his report.

What a hero.

[Gwendolyn]

56. No she didn't.

What Crowley conveyed actually, was that he was not able to handle the "I'm someone and you're not" classism thing. If you believe the report that Gates called immediately to get someone to find out why this peon was in his house. I do, because mostly all rich, educated people behave that way. And he does know the prez. And sometimes cops just don't care. Although mostly I suppose they do. All you have to do is watch the Sopranos reruns to know that.

[jmondine]

36. I also owe her the same apology

Ms. Whalen, I'm sorry I jumped to the conclusion that your call was in any way racially motivated.

[seabeyond]

50. the only thing i said about her was how could she say they were backpacks when 3 suitcases....

well hell.... cop lied. she did say luggage.

i wondered... just question, why she watched them carry suitcases in to home and not tell cop

hey.... she did tell that might be their home cause they carried in luggage. cop ignored.

[Gwendolyn]

60. No he didn't ignore.

When I was house sitting in NYC for a dog, I fucked up the alarm and it was tripped...in the bedlam of trying to shut it off, amazingly the cops arrived. I was asked for my ID and also asked to step outside in my skimpy jammies. I'm white. I was happy to "comply" even though I knew it was my fault. Why? Because although I knew it was prob my fault, ya never know. I wanted it to be resolved, not be a fight. You are always on threads that talk about how disgusting men are, and then when those guys actually protect the community, you go all into the opposite direction.

[seabeyond]

65. he lied gwen. that is what this op is about, the witness. he lied about the statement

he lied.

i have never made a comment about the police officer going to the door to verify who was in the residence. that is his job. he did it.

he lied on his report. so all the other stuff on the report can not be believed. that is what happens when a person lies. either gender gwen.

[Gwendolyn]

81. Okay, as you wish. That's how you see it;

next time you make a comment about men and their disgustingness I'll be there.

[seabeyond]

102. of course you will

i have over 37k posts. go into various and a variety of subjects. most all will be where one is taking advantage, abusing, having power over another. and yes at times it is thread with men. either abuse or the male privilige attitude. and you are always there defending that male. hey, like now, a cop that abuses his power. or date rape, justifying having 12 yr old strippers, rape simulation computer games of little girls. you are there to defend the mans privilige. though

i will also be in the threads where the men are being abused, or where the female privilige is in play and equally defend the male. that male though doesnt interest you. you arent in those threads, or any of the various other subjects i am interested in

my motive is clear, defend the underdog. your motive with so few post and only one interest, not so clear. but telling.

[Enrique]

58. maybe you're wrong about Crowley too

or was your mistake about Whalen the last mistake you will ever make?

[Ken Burch]

90. I fully expect to make mistakes about many things in my life

(as will you and everyone else). This latest information, however, strongly supports the case that I and most other people were right about Crowley.

[johnaries]

59. I owe her the same apology. Thank you for this opportunity. nt

[MellowDem]

61. Wouldn't that make you...

as racist as Crowley potentially is? Shouldn't you be there getting beer poured over your head?




Edit to add: Seriously though, you are brave to come out and apologize and very mature for doing so, but you still betray your continuing bias in the process.

[EFerrari]

62. No, that would make Ken Burch honest unlike Sergeant Jim Crow

who is still standing by his actions.

[MellowDem]

72. "Sgt. Jim Crow"

Well, you have been convinced that Crowley is a racist for a while now, I certainly hope you are right for your sake.

But just remember that when you assume things about a person because of their race, profession, etc. before all the facts are in, you are already prejudiced and bigoted, regardless of how the case turns out. Unfortunately, some have to be proven wrong, as in this case, before coming out and saying they were assuming. And of course, they were assuming based on their previous experiences and prejudices.

If Crowley really did arrest Gates for being black, uppity, living in a house, you name it... if he arrested him because of his own prejudices and bigoted thoughts, then how is that line of thinking any different than your own has been on this case?

The sad thing is that the OP apologizes for one assumption after being "proven" wrong on it, but then goes on with another assumption of Crowley being bigoted.

It's one thing to have an opinion on the case and allow that not all the facts are known and quite another to say that it is just one way or another, no questions asked, that's just the way it is. Charges of racism and bigotry are pretty heavy stuff and shouldn't be made wihtout all the facts, but they often are on here.

[EFerrari]

75. Wow. How pathetic is that. Unfortunately, racists and bigots

are not invisible. Their actions leave tracks. And like Skip Gates, there are a lot of posters here, including myself, who are experts at reading those tracks.

And I'm totally unimpressed that you don't know the difference between a bigot and someone who recognizes a bigot. That must be terrible for you.

[Gwendolyn]

80. You're a bigot too...even tho you don't want to say so.

[EFerrari]

85. It's not bigotry to call out racism, Gwen, although it probably is to defend it. n/t

[MellowDem]

83. Pathetic indeed.

You're an expert on accusing others of being racist without any facts, that's for sure, just "intution" (ie: prejudices and bigoted assumptions). What are your expert skills of reading those tracks? If it's a white police officer, he's a racist? Your critical thinking skills must be off the charts.

If you call someone a bigot because you yourself are bigoted, that makes you a bigot. That must be terrible for you.

[EFerrari]

86. You have access to the many posts that I put up going through the material.

From soup to nuts. You on the other hand have personal attacks such as the one you just posted.

[MellowDem]

88. My post was not meant as such...

I was only referring to this case presently, not any other posts you have.

It's just that you are SO sure that Crowley is a racist with not a whole lot of information that bothers me, even going so far as to call him "Sgt. Jim Crow". I think it's quite possible, though not likely, he is a racist, but to just come out and say, for sure, he is (or is not), requires one to make a lot of assumptions, expert or not.

A true expert could state their opinion that Crowley sure seems like a racist from their vast past experiences and awesome deduction abilites about race, but would still allow that they need all the information before they know for sure. And they certainly wouldn't be calling Crowley "Sgt. Jim Crow". That would be an amateur.

[EFerrari]

89. You haven't read all of my posts. You haven't read all the comments

I made on all the reports as they came out, or the material I found on my own and posted or the ideas I developed with others.

Yet, you feel free to say I've made assumptions and jumped to oonclusions and even went so far as to call me a bigot.

I think you need to find yourself a mirror.

[MellowDem]

91. None of your posts I've read on this...

have allowed for the possibility that he's not a racist. To expect me to go wading through all your posts is pretty unrealistic. I'm guessing you would've said otherwise by now if it was not true anyways. If it's not true, say something, don't expect me to go through the history of all your posts, I haven't seen them all. And I've never called you a bigot, just defined what a bigot is.

I don't know you, maybe you don't even actually believe what you type. It's quite possible you are not a bigot, just stubborn, or someone who likes to get a rise out of others, or who knows.

[EFerrari]

96. The thing is, DU is big and we really don't do everything at the same time

although we do overlap and it looks like we're all swarming.

I started sifting through this material the same hour the first report came out because Skip Gates is someone that is important to me. So, it could be that by the time you got to it, I was pretty far along the road of sorting fact and rumor and what-all into piles.

And no, I don't think that slinging around terms like "racist" is something that should be done lightly. What that amounts to is disrespect for the victims of racism, isn't it?

But, it was pretty clear early on that Gates was arrested for contempt of cop, that the only thing Crowley could cite was Gates' "tone" aka "angry black man" and the union rep was saying loudly and all over the Boston media to keep race out of it. And I could go down the list of indicators but, you probably know them yourself. The NAACP issued a press release calling for a review at Cambridge PD and denouncing racial profiling. President Obama brought it up and he's the most careful public speaker I've ever heard. And the reports of previous racial profiling incidents in Cambridge started bubbling up on the net.

So, it was no surprise at all to me today to hear that Crowley invented two black men and made his witness a white woman into the bargain. He was trying to cover for embarrassing his department, not to mention, for making an arrest that was going to be thrown out. He took his shot and the way he took it tells you more than anything else.

That's a thumbnail. There's other things, too, like Skip Gates being clean of any incident like this. But, that's the process. Looking for facts that stack up. It's not a matter of deciding to call someone ugly names at all. Do I think this man is a racist? Sure, I do. But that's not really even the worst of it.

This cop put Gates and also this lady, Lucia, through a world of hurt because he wasn't in charge of himself. And it's probable that he's now damaged his career and that's a shame because he's a young guy with a young family. Especially in this economy, I don't wish that on a young father.

I hear that the beer-a-thon has been set for Thursday. And even thinking this guy is a liar and a racist, not to mention, a self-serving @ss for getting his whole network out there defending him when he knew he was lying, I hope that meeting goes well. Because it will be good for the country and it will be especially good for Jim Crowley.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

78. A vision of clarity

and fairness.

Thanks for this post.......................

[EFerrari]

87. Oh, yeah. A vision of clarity that still denies that introducing two fictional black men

into an incident report is racist.

Brilliant and very clear.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

92. There you are again, mah leeetle sweetheart -

you cannot resist me, it's clear.

You love me, you really, really love me!!!

You are mah leeeetle Internet secret sweetiepie...................

[EFerrari]

93. And when confronted with an argument, you reply with gibberish.

Cool.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

94. I speak to you the language of Internet(s) tubes love,

what you seek as you prance behind me, relishing my every word, holding them close to you, cherishing them, wishing them to be part of you.

Love. It's a beautiful thing. A leetle Internet(s) tubes crush, what you have on me.

It is SO cute, and so are you ..............................

[Ken Burch]

95. Get a chat room, you two....

[EFerrari]

97. I'll pass, thanks.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

98. Nudge, nudge, wink, wink..............

Someone - I'm not gonna name any names, understand, but someone - is carrying a torch for LaBamba

[AuntPatsy]

67. I never once thought of her in any way other than the lady who called

simply because she was worried that something was not right....all my anger goes to crowley and his insane band of followers...and that will never change regardless of how many book deals he will eventually get through his new foxy friends...

[4lbs]

69. I apologize to her too. In threads last week, I questioned her call to the police, and asked how

somebody could mistaken Gates for two young black men.

It seems that she didn't even identify the race of the men she saw, saying they could have even been Hispanic, but wasn't sure.

So, she did good.

[LisaL]

71. It really is amazing.

She did good, according to you, because she misidentified one of the men as possibly Hispanic?
If she got a better look and identified them as black (which they were) she would have done bad, I presume?

[4lbs]

73. No, when the police dispatch asked her, she said she couldn't identify the race.

When continued to be pressed, she said because they were in the shade of the porch, the men could be white, black, or even Hispanic for all she knew.

[LisaL]

74. And that makes it good? But if she could identify the race, that

would make it bad? Pardon me if I always thought a good witness can give as good a description as possible. It's the other way around.

[4lbs]

101. No, my "she did good" was because she wasn't thinking through race-colored lenses when she made the

call. She didn't say to the 911 operator "well, there's two black men there on that porch near the door, and you know what that means!"

All she saw was two men on her neighbor's porch, who she knew was gone on an overseas trip.

But, I'm sure you'll continued to be outraged and overly sensitive. Go right ahead.

[TexasObserver]

70. Yes, and Jim Crow-ley was the reason she was mischaracterized.

She said one thing. He claimed she said something else.

[TheKentuckian]

99. I never really understood what she was getting slammed for anyway.

If I thought I saw two _____ guys breaking in the house, I'd probably say as much to describe the situation.

I want to report a potential break in.

Did you see anyone?

Yes, I saw an Asian guy and a white dude./Yeah, it a couple of black guys/It looked like a Latino and a Native kat.


It is kind of a good thing it went down like it did to get a little more daylight on the situation but it was really reaching to accuse the caller of anything off base.

[LisaL]

100. By the way according to that same Wendy, Lucia

doesn't believe police acted inappropriately. Although she doesn't want to reveal the things she has heard.

"MURPHY: Well, I think what's fair to say is she does not believe the police acted inappropriately. Without describing the content of what she heard, there's only one person she heard screaming, and that was Professor Gates."
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,535044,00.html

[Liberal_in_LA]

103. K&R

[Orsino]

104. Reasonable people can form opinions based on insufficient information.

The most reasonable people of all will modify those opinions in response to new data. That you changed your mind a few days earlier or later than many other people doesn't make you a particularly good or bad person.

It's cool. It's brave to admit you were wrong, and is a fine example to all of us.

[redqueen]

106. ...