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MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 10:06 AM
Original message
What to do if you're arrested or stopped by the police
When you're stopped by the police, you run the risk of being arrested or hurt, or both. Most officers will not act improperly, but whether they act properly or not you still need to protect your rights and keep yourself safe.

If you're stopped or arrested, try to avoid conflict to keep the police calm. The following tips may help. They're combined from several sources (including the ACLU and myself). I'm not a lawyer and I can't tell you anything beyond what I have listed here. -- M. Bluejay, 7-00

What to do when you are stopped

1. Stay calm and in control of your words, body language, and emotions.

2. Do not run or walk away. Keep your hands where police can see them -- don't put them in your pockets. (Don't make the police nervous by wondering if you have a weapon.) Don't make any sudden movements. Never touch a police officer.

3. Be polite and respectful.

4. Give your name and address only if you're asked to, but remember you don't need to say anything more. (The caveat is that if the police are annoyed by your refusal to say more, they may take you to the station out of spite.) Remember, anything you say or do can be used against you later.

5. To search you or your vehicle the police must have a warrant, or have arrested you, or have probable cause that you committed a crime. If the police lack these they may ask you for permission to search. If you GIVE them permission, then you can't argue later in court that they performed an illegal search.

6. Try to remember the officers' physical decriptions. Try to memorize badge numbers, names, license plate numbers, and police car numbers. Once the police stop questioning you, write all this down as soon as you are able.

7. Ask bystanders to stand at a discreet distance and observe. The police are less likely to do something wrong if there are people watching. People have a right to stand at a reasonable distance and observe as long as they do not interfere. (The police may consider that bystanders repeatedly asking them questions constitutes "interference".) Get the names and phone numbers of the witnesses afterward in case you need them in the future.

8. If you are being abused, don't resist. Once multiple officers start hurting you, you can't stop them by resisting, and struggling may only encourage them. Think of a cat playing with a mouse -- while the mouse is struggling, the cat is excited, but when the mouse stops moving, the cat loses interest. In some cases, the police may continue to abuse you even if you don't struggle, but since struggling can't help you, it's best not to try.

9. If the police let you go and you are injured, take photographs of the injuries as soon as possible, but make sure you seek medical attention first.

10. If you feel your rights have been violated, file a written complaint. Keep a copy of the complaint, and make sure a family member or close friend has a copy.


The Rest: http://michaelbluejay.com/police/arrest.html
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
1. Recommend, and it's all true.
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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
2. I wonder if phonecams have come up yet. Do you have a right to record your interaction with police?
In the Boynton Beach tazing incident, the officer was ordering the woman to get off the phone. She was calling her husband to tell him she was being arrested.

I think that a citizen with a cell phone should have the right to call someone to stay on the line during the encounter.
I think that a citizen should have the right to record the encounter, if he has the technology on hand.
I suspect, that as the prices are coming down, many Americans are buying their own dash cams and that more will buy them in the future.
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MUAD_DIB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #2
13. I think that depends on the state, but there are laws that forbid that kind of thing.

I totally don't agree with the rationale of the police on that. There have been a few instances where having a cell phone vid (i.e. BART shooting) clearly has show police brutality or worse.


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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. As far as I know, it is never illegal to record cops interacting with others
I don't know about them interacting with you, and recording that.
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MUAD_DIB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. This may be what I had heard.

http://sfacw.blogspot.com/2008/12/baltimore-police-invo...

Meanwhile, another person filming the arrest in the alley was told by a cop that under the PATRIOT ACT, it was illegal to film a cop... The arrested protester told us that "Robin Euler who was filming the scene in the alley was assaulted by the cops who grabbed her and pushed her against the brick wall and she hit her head". Euler was arrested and charged with the usual boggus 'police assault' nowadays slammed on reporters on duty...




There may be other incidents like the above, but I do not believe that the police have the right to hide their actions or arrest those that film them in the process of an arrest. This may just be a case of some police breaking the law.
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ManiacJoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #20
113. According to the lawyers who pretend to be weekend photographers
there have been no changes to any laws governing photography since 9/11. In the USA, if you can legally stand where you physically are, anything you can see can be legally photographed subject to a few exceptions regarding privacy (eg, telephoto lenses into home windows, etc.).

Photographing cops at a discreet distance is perfectly legal as long as you are not interfering with them doing their job.


What you are allowed to do with a photo after you take it is a very different discussion.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
3. Or..
Roll over into a fetal position and beg for mercy.
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Auggie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
4. A lawyer I know reminds me cops
are trained to use whatever means necessary to take control of a situation. It doesn't matter who is right and who is wrong -- the cop needs know he/she is in control first. The rest can be sorted out later.
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usregimechange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
5. 11. Forget 1-10 and just do what they say as long as it is half way reasonable
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #5
19. 12. Lock the car when you get out if so ordered, if they ask why, say "habit"
13. Never leave your residence if asked. Only do so when required.

14. Always, always, always require a warrant for a requested search.

15. Never allow police into your home if you didn't call them and they do not try to force entry.
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Iggo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #5
106. Yeah, fuck the law and your rights. Just do what they say.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #106
115. That's what court is for..
you will NEVER win with a police officer in the field.
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Turbineguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
6. That's good advice!
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
7. The Video:
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EmeraldCityGrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #7
66. +1
good stuff!
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Tim01 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #7
73. Awesome video. nt
Edited on Sun Jul-26-09 12:01 AM by Tim01
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
8. I never let them search my car
Friend had a pipe planted in his car by a cop years ago. Cost him a night in jail, thousands of dollars and years to take care of.
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HopeHoops Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
9. Strip down to my underpants and dance around shouting "Jehovah, Jehovah!"
Hopefully a bunch of women in fake beards will show up with a large rock.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
10. and then we wonder why cops feel so GD ovr the top powerful. when with a cop, pee all over yourself
in fuckin submission
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trixie Donating Member (696 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
11. Wow different instructions
than that police commander gave this morning on tv. :sarcasm:
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
12. ...and if you refuse a breathalyzer and they say that they have to then arrest you, say "OK" and
cooperate fully. It's amazing how likely it is that a cop will forget some critical detail if you're highly cooperative and treat them with respect, but also act professional in your own right.
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
14. My boss tells the story of a coworker's way of dealing with cops
This guy was always getting arrested. So one day he comes to work all excited and says he learned how to avoid getting arrested. He said that when they pull him over and ask for his ID, he doesn't say "Fuck you!"

Of coure, he wasn't inside his own house.
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safeinOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
15. Good advice from a lawyer and a cop
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Tim01 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
16. It's amazing how well the cops treat me AFTER
they come to the conclusion I am not a felon who is trying to lie my way out of trouble, I am not going to run, I am not going to try to hurt the cops, I am not going to start a fight.
Once we get that straightened out they become very reasonable.
They are usually all attitude and caution until they find out I really am not a badguy, then it's all good. They become officer friendly dealing with Joe Average citizen.

I don't blame them a bit.
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MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. That is the point from which they have you under their control
The author's advice stipulated that as well
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Tim01 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #18
38. I'm not a dick to them, they respond accordingly.
I also try not to be a dick to other people doing the job I want them to do.

The job I want the cops to do is catch the badguys, put them in jail. I would also like them to not end up dead or crippled as a result of trying so very hard to not hurt anybodys little feelings. If that means they will be aggressive with all unknowns, fine with me. I am not the guy who is going to scream at them, spit on them, call them pigs, stab them, shoot them, or drive over them.
I've seen the video on how not to get your ass kicked by the police.
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MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. It may not seem like it, but i'm not a dick to cops either
On the other hand, I'm wary of them and my first preference is to avoid them altogether
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 02:06 AM
Response to Reply #38
77. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
8 track mind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #77
98. hell yeah!
welcome to DU, BTW!
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gopiscrap Donating Member (418 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #98
102. Thanks
Although I am white, I lived in a black ghetto for six years saw some hellacious stuff the cops did that never got reported or if it did, was just excused by apologists as keeping law and order. Give some one a gun, a badge and interact them with some one historically oppressedon a hot night in a tight situation and you've got a recipe for disaster and 99 out of a 100 times it's not the cop who suffers!
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Hugabear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #77
99. Something about your post registers on my sniff-meter
The clock is ticking...
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #99
100. ya.... so far out there, looks like a pathetic here to cause trouble. n/t
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gopiscrap Donating Member (418 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #100
103. Excuse me?
Edited on Sun Jul-26-09 11:25 AM by gopiscrap
I have worked with in the Democratic Party for years..I ran from the far left for US Congress in 1990 and got more votes than anybody before or since against my DINO Congressman, I ran and won a city initiative (64%) in a town of 200K asking for a reduction of military spending (a very pro military at that) , I took a free speech yard sign case up to the US Supreme Court (and won it 9-0) that is now one of the rext cases on yard sign law..so trying to cause trouble...fuck you! I have done lots of work with clients who have been fucked by the pigs. I have my opinions about cops from personal experiences that I have witnessed from friends, neighbors and clients who have been screwed for no reason.....I have seen so many cases in which the cop lies to protect his ass or just to fuck with some one who challenged him. Three quarters of all chippy cases that are charged are either over ego, or when some sniveling prosecutor who doesn't want to piss off his cop buddies and lose money on a lawsuit (by the person charged because of the cops initial behavior) over charges on behalf of the cop to get some poor uneducated guy to plead to some minor chippy charge in order to preclude him from obtaining financial justice. ...finally..I run a peace and justice project in a metropolitian area of 3,000,000 that is highly respected and does a huge amount of work collaborating with many other liberal organizations.....so next time you want to make a blanket disparagement of an individual you might want to do some research first.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #103
104. hm. i do too. i never laugh at people that are hurt or killed. but you are right
there is a very very small percentage on du that take joy in the aggressive approach of pain adn death to those they have issue with. i hear the same about jokes of prison rape or death of military. rape of females. prostituting little kids.....

small small amount of duers, but they are there.

so, you are a dem... i am right there with you buddy in your activism. not so much in the embracing of pain or death to others.
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Hugabear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #103
105. Think about it from our perspective, having dealt with rethug trolls before
Usually when someone with a very low post count comes on DU and starts posting stuff that's very inflammatory like that (even if some of us may agree with you), it's a tip-off that the person might be a freeper troll. Not saying that YOU are, but it did look suspicious.
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polmaven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #18
92. That is the point
from which they can be sure that the SITUATION is under control, and that there is no danger to themselves or anyone else.

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create.peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-27-09 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #16
119. oh puhleeze
there is no way that works when you are profiled.... we have long hair, old vehicles, and drive under the speed limit. what you said doesn't work for us.
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Toasterlad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
21. How Sad That We Need a List of Rules to Protect Us From Policemen.
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Soylent Brice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-27-09 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #21
123. finally! glad somebody pointed that out.
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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
22. If arrested, do not answer questions; ASK FOR A LAWYER
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
23. I was once given a shorter set of instructions.
1. Bend over & place your head between your knees.
2. Kiss your ass goodbye.
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Chulanowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
24. And these are the "public servants" we give how much tax money to?
I'll be damned if I can stomach the idea of going "ya suh, right 'way suh, this boy be doin' what ya say, suh!" when presented with someone who's job is supposed to be helping me.
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Irritating, isn't it?
I don't like the idea of abject surrender to authority. It makes me feel unAmerican.
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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. The police are not your butler
How hard it must be to show a tiny amount of respect to people whose job it is to help you?
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. when there initial approach is intimidation, then no..... respect wont happen. submissiveness will
for some. but there is not respect with intimidation. and some people will immediately respond with bullshit.

oh, lets not put any of the onus on our police, that is for sure.
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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #28
34. You have to deal with it
And seek response through the proper channels.

If you are so emotionally unstable that you can't handle doing what a police officer asks you to do without heaping bullshit at them, then you should get hassled. It is all about having more ego than good sense. If what they did was wrong, you should do what is right, not wig out and have a temper tantrum.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. again, another extreme argument that doesnt have a lot to do with what i am talking about
but


it does say a lot about your position that you feel the cops for any reason has a right to "hassle" people.
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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #35
41. The same right you have to hassle the police
If is rises to the level of breaking the law then they should be held to its fullest extent.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. cops and civilian are NOT on the smae footing. on the one hand you want them all powerful
us submissive, and immediate and automatic respect ignoring issue. on the other, you want us to be equal

AND

you changed your argument to being an ass warrants "hassel" to breaking the law behavior waraants "hassel". at the point of someone breaking the law it is not "hassel" it is arrest. and if at that point, the paid professional that actually takes pride in his work would not hassel the person he is arresting.

so

i suggest "hassel" is NEVER appropriate but immature behavior. and that person should not have the power and responsibility of a cop
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MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. The police are here to "help me"?
Are you kidding?
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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. So you don't think the police help you?
Would you prefer there were no police?
Probably not, because we all know they help us.
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MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Well, it's like this, I don't know what their motivation is
Different cops have different motivations for different situations.

And from previous encounters, I have found that several of those motivations were not in my best interests.


Be that as it may, my default position when dealing with the police is to look out for my own best interests and not depend on armed people, who could possibly injure or kill me legally in any particular situation.
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KG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. i'd say, that as a black person, your default position is more than justified.
Edited on Sat Jul-25-09 04:38 PM by KG
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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #31
43. I'm not sure what your interests are
To be able to understand in what way they don't act in your best interest.

That statement applies equally to Rosa Parks and Ted Bundy. Are you helping to pioneer civil rights?
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MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. I'm merely a black man in America
The sky is wide open
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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. Then the police's motivation would seem to be in your interest
Some explanation of the incidents you mentioned might cast some light on why you would feel that way.
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MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. My own personal experiences shall remain just that, personal
However, there many other anecdotes for others that I've decided to use as learning experiences in my life long quest avoiding being a victim
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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. Then why bring them up
If your learning experiences are so educational, then you should bring them for the class to see.
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MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #49
54. I'm execising my right to privacy
It's simple as that
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. i was on a right/left board. i forgot this argument. we dont get it often here. BUT
when a person has a problem with something... like, say... police. the argument is "so you prefer we dont have one" like that is the only two options. police without stronge boundaries for behavior, or no police.

not

the only

options
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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. It applies in this situation
The implication was that police didn't help them.

Yes, they do help him because without them he would be worse off. His situation is personally improved by the police being there: They help him.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. no, it doesnt. i see a LOT of middle ground that you dont even have the imagination to explore
middle ground that will be good for the citizen and good for the force.

middle ground that will make it a win win win

citizen, cops, and community
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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. It applies absolutely
Do you receive benefits from the police? Do they "help" you?
Yes, they help you because if they were not there it would suck.
Those ideas would also help people more, but that doesn't have anything to do with if the police benefit you now.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. in you black and white world of take it as is regardless of issues or NO cops
yes it applies to you. thankfully we all are not so black and white and many of those that did llive in that world of bushco saw how very unproductive adn damaging it is. so yes, i feel you clearly see it applies.

hence, my original comment to you that i have not seen this style of argument in quite a while
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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. That has nothing to do with whether or not they help you
Do the police help you?

Does a rock help you pound in a nail? Yes, but a hammer could very well work better.

Does a McDonald's drive thru attendant help you? Yes, but X, Y, and Z would help more.
Whether or not something helps you doesn't depend on if something could help more.


So, do the police help you?
Yes, they clearly help you, and other things would help more.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #45
50. since this is not what i am posting on, ... i will leave it in your hands.
i would imagine that people that may feel the police are not helpful are those that have not experienced the helpful end of police. when asking for help didnt receive it.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #30
52. No, I would prefer police who weren't here to terrorize us. Fuck Officer Kickass.
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Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #30
63. Fuck no I don't think the police help me.
If they were they'd actually be helpful instead of constantly power tripping. These lazy doughnut chomping bastards won't even give you directions when they cut off the road you need to get to your destination and you ask because your instructions don't have detours.

If they were helpful they wouldn't lie constantly.

If they were helpful they wouldn't hassle you because they can.

If they were remotely interested in serving the public they wouldn't act as though they're an occupying army and we're a bunch of savages.

If they're trying to convince people that they're helpful (and I don't think that's the case at all) they're certainly failing at it.
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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-27-09 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #63
125. I figure more
Do they try to capture people that have been committing crime around the neighborhood? Yes

Do they keep the roads safe to drive on? Yes

Are they at events making sure nothing gets out of control? Yes

If I called them to report a crime in progress, are they going to show up are make a good faith effort to stop the crime? Yes

It is such a shame that they don't help you with your petty little problems, and they are too mean for you. Maybe if you didn't treat them like your butler they wouldn't have a problem with you.
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gopiscrap Donating Member (418 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 02:10 AM
Response to Reply #30
80. I have never had a fucking cop around when I have
needed them...they're usually too busy shaking people down or setting them up!
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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-27-09 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #80
126. The voice of true ignorance
They are never there when you need them, too busy shaking people down to setting them up.
Read: I have no idea what they are doing, but they don't use telepathy to know I'm in trouble and use a teleporter to get there instantly.
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retread Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #30
93. Here it is againt!! Same tired shit forty-five years later, "Need help? Call a hippie."
The MAIN role of police is to preserve the status quo and protect the ruling class from "the great unwashed."
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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-27-09 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #93
124. The absolute last person I'd call if I needed help would be a hippie
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winyanstaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-27-09 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #93
127. darn right..at least they wont tazer you to death...
Hippies will be more likely to help than the police..just ask the dead mom who called for help for her suicidal daughtor..who is now also dead...both shot to death by the cops.
Just ask the guy who got a tazer shoved up his ass and threatened to have his balls tazered AFTER the cop had him subdued.
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yodoobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #27
57. They are not there to help you
When police are questioning you, the absolute last thing that they are trying to do, is help you.

In fact, they are trying to get you to incriminate yourself.

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MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #57
60. Bingo!
That's the name of the game
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #57
114. Which ya cant do if you are not a criminal
you can talk to then for hours and if you are truthful and not engaged in breaking the law, no problem. Been my experience.
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yodoobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #114
116. everyone is a criminal
Edited on Sun Jul-26-09 10:05 PM by yodoobo
With thousands and thousands of laws on the books, you probably broke dozens today without even knowing it.

You could put the pope in a room with a good interogator and if he talks, eventually he'll incriminate himself to something.

Furthermore, even your truthful testimony can be used against you if it contradicts someone else inaccurate, but earnest testimony.

Only a fool talks to the police without a lawyer.

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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #116
118. is it owning a dildo or selling a dildo that is the crime in texas. n/t
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #114
117. kinda like gates? hm. think not a criminal, talked only for a handful of minutes and became
criminal in the eyes of that one and only cop
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create.peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-27-09 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #57
120. yessiree, bob! nt
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #27
64. In my entire life there has only been ONE cop who helped me
and he was Black. I'll never forget it. And the white guys got the ticket. Hot damn! I was on a roll, THAT day. :applause:
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #27
68. What is so special about the police? We should show everyone respect,
teachers, store clerks, everyone. The problem in the Gates situation was that the officer did not show Professor Gates the respect that one human being should show to another.

In my opinion, the police would get a lot further in most situations if they had training in defusing conflict rather than in ratcheting it up. The minute an arrogant, belligerent police officer walks into a home, he or she makes it more likely that something will go wrong.

I remember reading that female police officers in general (with exceptions) are better at defusing domestic violence and other similar situations than are male officers.

Police officers need a lot of anger management training -- as do teachers and others who deal a lot with difficult people. The handcuffs should be the last, last, last, last, last resort when you are dealing with a college professor aged over 55 who is out of sorts and angry, but not armed and with no history of prior violent convictions. The officer was way out of line.

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gopiscrap Donating Member (418 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 02:16 AM
Response to Reply #68
81. Most fucking asshole cops are just looking
to start something..that way they get rough up some poor guy, practice new submission techniques, make an arrest or two, intimidate those not arrested and appear to the rest of the sheeple pig apologists out there that they are doing all they can for law and order...while I would never do anything to bring it about, to me the only good cop is one who is an invalid sitting in a wheel chair drooling out of the side of his mouth, that way he can't fuck with anyone anymore.
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Chulanowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #27
69. Not at all hard
Bowing and scraping, that's hard, though, and is very certainly far beyond "showing a tiny amount of respect." They are my employee, I am their boss. I pay them for their services to my community. They are not doing me a fucking favor by being police, and there is no reason at all I should be expected to roll over and piss myself when they speak to me.

I treat cashiers and waiters and mechanics and bus drivers with respect. I see no fucking reason to put cops on a pedestal above these other people, who are all told, far less likely to bust my skull open if they had a bad day at work. Cops warrant the respect granted to another human being, and the treatment one gives in civilized interaction. No less, but certainly not more, either.
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #27
72. then why does it say 'to protect and SERVE' on the side of the car...?
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pattmarty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #27
89. Bullshit!!!.. I can see you have never had a "bad experience" with the police.
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #27
107. All they get from me is feigned respect
I have no respect whatsoever for any cop.

None.

They don't deserve anything but fake respect from me.
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beevul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #27
112. Old fashioned, I know, but respect is EARNED.
By more than simply carrying a badge and gun and tazer and wearing a uniform.


One way it can be earned is by not being a dickhead right from the get go.
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winyanstaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-27-09 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #27
128. How hard is it to pay a little respect to the people you are sworn to serve and protect?
And the taxpayers that pay your salery?
Peope are AFRAID of our police now..that was not always the way it was.
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gopiscrap Donating Member (418 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 02:08 AM
Response to Reply #24
78. specially considering we're paying
the authorative donut eating bastards their salary
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quakerboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 04:12 AM
Response to Reply #24
87. Herein lies the rub
I treat them the way I treat anyone else. Civilly. Between that and looking like and upandcoming good ol white boy, Ive never had any real trouble.

In the case that treating them civilly does not elicit the same in reverse, I plan to treat them the way I would treat any other threatening person with a gun and a lot of friends with guns.
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
25. K&R
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
51. 11. Turn on video camera.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. really. this is really what it is bottom lining to. n/t
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Inchworm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
55. Hey MrScorpio, did you see the vid I posted earlier?
An oldie but goodie, and very pertinent to all these discussions.

It is an ACLU type what do do/what not to do if pulled over, stopped on the street or if officers go to your home. Pretty handy info.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

:hi:
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MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. I can't watch vids with this dinosaur of a Mac that I'm on. Too freakin' slow
Next time I'm on my wife's PC, I give it a look

Thanks
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dddem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
58. many years agos, my brother shared with me what he was taught while serving in the U.S. Navy,
When you get pulled over (evidently, they thought it was important to teach sailors this little trick), put your car in park, take the keys from the ignition, place them on the dashboard, and place your hands on the steering wheel. This way, the officer can see that you are not a flight risk, and won't feel threatened by you. I've been pulled over on a few occasions (genetically heavy right foot - it runs in my family), and have always been treated with respect. Also, I've never actually been issued a speeding ticket (I don't know if my method had any bearing on it, but I'll continue to employ it, just in case!).
I do believe that although in any profession, you'll always run into some assholes, for the most part, the majority of Police Officers (like any other line of work) are just trying to do their job. Bear in mind, taking personal feelings out of it, that the job of a police officer very often involves dealing with the kind of people the rest of us don't want to. They are the ones we call when we're afraid of a situation, and they respond not knowing what they will encounter. They are trained to be suspicious. They are trained to take control of situations. I'm not stupid enough to think there aren't a few arrogant jerks who are on a power trip, but again, that goes with any profession (although, I'll grant you, very few are allowed to carry weapons). All I'm saying, is that with any other situation, none of us should be painting with such a broad brush.
Peace.
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MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #58
59. I'm not saying that all cops are bad
I'm saying that all cops are cops and anyone coming face to face with one need to follow certain rules.
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dddem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #59
61. I agree!
And I apologize if my reply caused to think I was referring to you. But some of the responses on this and other threads lead me to believe that although we all wear the label of Democrat proudly, clearly, we are not all created equal! I think that we have to be very careful not to assume that ALL cops are power hungry, not ALL republicans are right wing idealogs, not ALL democrats are liberal, not ALL Americans support gun control or gay rights or public education, etc, etc, etc. We need to start looking at each situation on it's own merits before we make judgements. This professor has probably been treated unfairly in the past, and he probably overreacted to this situation. This officer is probably the decent human being people are saying he is, and HE probably overreacted to the situation. Human beings and Human error. Pretty simple. And now it's gotten much more complicated that it should have been. And I hope we can all learn something from it, and some good will come of all the name calling, accusations, hurt feelings and tarnished reputations.
Thanks for opening this dialogue. I always enjoy coming here and and expressing myself with other intelligent, passionate people (something all us Democrats have in common!).
Peace.
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Snarkoleptic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
62. The RIGHT way to handle a police stop...by the ACLU
The most significant part is to dismiss yourself by asking "Am I free to go?".
This forces the issue of detained vs. not detained.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDJrQBwJpqk
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Piewhacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #62
65. Seems ok. not by ACLU (by flexyourrights.org/busted). n/t
Edited on Sat Jul-25-09 11:17 PM by Piewhacket
narrated by Ira Glasser, retired director of ACLU.

I find no fault with it, other than to advise it is
NOT by the ACLU.

It is unfortunate such a video is necessary, though.
Abusive conduct by officers as seen in the clip is
unfortunately too commonplace. It is also grounds for a
complaint supporting discipline of the officer.

The complaint should be directed to a civilian review board
if one is available, otherwise or to the chief of police.

If proper discipline of the officer does not occur, the
officer's superior officer might properly face disciplinary
action themselves for failure to supervise officer conduct.
This is because the conduct seen here is unprofessional even
if not illegal, and if it is not disciplined is thereby ratified.

It is then the political authority must be asked to remove
the chief or face some political action themselves, such as
recall or election opposition. This is why civilian review
boards are sometimes set up.

If the conduct is additionally illegal, rather than
merely unprofessional as here, it may be necessary to
contact the state AG or a US attorney with a complaint.
A private attorney can be consulted concerning your rights.

Citizen action groups are critically important to the
supervision and proper conduct of their police. In a democracy
it is they,and you, who guards the guardians.

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mimitabby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
67. he's right
my nephew (a white man) is dead because he didn't follow these rules.
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PJPhreak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
70. To keep them outta your car.....
Edited on Sat Jul-25-09 11:51 PM by PJPhreak
Throw a box of this up on the dashboard where a cop can see it opon the first look in your car,

Believe me it really works,if the officer really thinks they Have to look,they do so REALLY fast!!!


edit for stupid spelling
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 11:57 PM
Response to Original message
71. when should i drop the gun...?
:shrug:
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winyanstaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 12:29 AM
Response to Original message
74. It is a crying shame it has come to this in America.
I remember when the police were our friends and were here to protect and serve the people.
There are a few good police left but I fear they are becoming more and more outnumbered. I feel sad for them because it has to be frustrating if they remember their vows. It has to hurt them to be so feared and disliked because of the bad apples in the force.
The ones today are trained to be more like mercenaries or military thugs and are only serving the rich and corporations now.
They don't care a hill of beans about their oaths of office either..its all about ego and making people bow and scrap and be afraid.
Yes I am afraid..afraid for my country, and afraid if any of my family gets stopped for any reason. I myself have had a heart attack once already so a tazer would most likely kill me.
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bkkyosemite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 01:03 AM
Response to Original message
75. To have to give tips on how to act so police won't hurt you sounds like a police state to me.
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Cid_B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 01:15 AM
Response to Original message
76. This entire thread from top to bottom ....
just reeks of melodrama...

Police State my ass... I invite you to come see a real police state.
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Flaneur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 02:08 AM
Response to Reply #76
79. Why? Are you living in one? Do tell.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 03:46 AM
Response to Reply #79
83. Well-known worshiper of authority.
Until the thugs break down his door, all is well. We have quite a few here.


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pattmarty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #76
91. OK, we're all waiting.................
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lexanman Donating Member (401 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 02:23 AM
Response to Original message
82. wow
I really can't believe sometimes the level of the police state that we truly live in. "Your paper's please" is not just a phrase for Germany under Nazi rule.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 03:51 AM
Response to Original message
84. Absolute rule #1. KEEP YOUR MOUTH CLOSED, period.
Edited on Sun Jul-26-09 03:54 AM by Greyhound
Modify rule #4 to anything will be used against you. These thugs are building a case against you, there is no upside to helping them.

Most states require that you provide them with your identity, but beyond that, STFU! You do not consent to anything, ever, under any circumstances, is that clear? You do not give permission, you do not respond to any question no matter how innocuous it sounds, and you do not resist. If they want to arrest you, they will do it no matter what you say, you cannot talk your way out of it, so don't say anything. It does not matter if you are innocent or guilty, stop talking, do nothing, do not help them abuse you with impunity.


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ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #84
96. Precisely - very few people are in jail for something they didn't say.
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johnaries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 04:03 AM
Response to Original message
85. I've never ahd a problem with the police. Of course, I'm a
middle-aged white (and we're talking pale, almost glow in the dark white) man who always says "sir". And since I've only been pulled over for minor traffic violations (tail-light out, rolling stop at a stop sign, etc) I am always sure to play ignorant and innocent and say "thank you for telling me, officer!"
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thelordofhell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 04:12 AM
Response to Original message
86. Oboy, the dick theory in action again
Let's see, some dick cop is a dick to some dick and all of a sudden either the dick cop or the dick is a hero and the other guy/gal/cop is a complete dickety, dick, dick, dick, and then some dicks for the one dick and some dicks for the other dick get on the net and dick around and be dicks to each other because their dicks don't stink like those other dicks, right?
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pattmarty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #86
90. Well, that was fucking enlightening.
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thelordofhell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #90
110. Welcome to the powerful world of the internet
Where intelligent discourse about serious topics can be trumped by a dick joke.
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retread Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #86
94. Obsessed with dicks, dick? n/t
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thelordofhell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #94
109. Thanks for proving my point
Your check's in the mail
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Tab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 04:59 AM
Response to Original message
88. Some more advice - be careful of giving "invites"

Similar to asking permission to search, if they ask if they can come in (to your house) or perhaps move your car for you, you are inviting them onto the property, at which point they are free to observe and investigate much more. It's a more subtle way of achieving the "mind if we look around?" thing, but just as legally valid.
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hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
95. It's yessir nosir the whole time
You can think what you want about them but if you say it you become more wrong than they are.
Keep mouth shut and let your lawyer do the talking afterwards is my attitude.
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TheCowsCameHome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
97. Tell them you want to buy a ticket to the upcoming Policeman's Ball
When they reply, "Policemen don't have any balls" -


DO NOT LAUGH
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Hugabear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
101. Do not say ANYTHING to police. Do NOT offer any help.
If you're pulled over in your car, you're only obligated to show your license, registration, and proof of insurance. That's it. As far as I know, there is no law requiring you to have identification on you at all times - despite our rhetoric, we're not quite a police state yet.

Remember, the police are not there to look out for your interest. They have their own agenda, are almost always investigating something. Even if you think you're trying to be helpful, anything information you volunteer to the police can be used against you at some point. Once you start offering information, they can come back days, weeks, or even months later and ask you more questions. If your latest version of events varies even slightly from what you initially told police, they can and will pounce on that.

Better to just keep your mouth shut, and only offer the minimal information required by law.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #101
108. Great advice, act like you've got something to hide. Not smart. nt
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Hugabear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-27-09 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #108
122. So you agree with the police state theory that silence equals guilt?
Amazing.
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Shagbark Hickory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
111. I would just add to #6.) but Don't ask the cops for their name or badge number.
This will get you locked up or beaten to a pulp every time.
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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-27-09 01:16 AM
Response to Original message
121. Thanks, Mr. Scorpio. nt
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