Why can't we do health care like the french?

[K8-EEE]

Since their system is rated #1 and ours #37, might be an obvious question but why not just model it after their system?

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=4647483&page=1

I think most Americans can relate to this part - I SURE DO!

My daughter had emergency surgery for a fallopian cyst while away at college last year and I am STILL HASSLING COLLECTION NOTICES from the ambulance who refuse to put the correct date of service on the bills and my ins. will not pay it without the correct date of service. They kept putting 2/25 when the surgery was 2/27. It took 8 phone calls to correct this and all during this time I was getting threatened re: turning it over to a collection agency. A similar mistake was made by the anasthesia guy whose office put her b-day as 1/25 instead of 11/25 that created endless phone calls between the ins. and the provider. It was constantly "you need to tell them...." from one side or the other.

btw a 3 mile ambulance ride was $1,980.00. So I am very grateful to have the good union ins. and only have to pay $100 or so out of pocket, however, that is $100 more than a French person would have to pay.


My top-level health insurance paid for most of my U.S. care, but it was often a struggle to shake loose the money. I was frequently stuck in the middle of disputes between the company and my hospital and doctors over "agreed to fees."

Continually dunned by the hospital for fees and facing multiple complaining phone calls to my insurance company, I sometimes simply caved in and wrote checks to cover bills that I knew were the insurance company's responsibility — part of a wearing-down strategy I was convinced was deliberate.

[MannyGoldstein]

1. Because Americans (On Whole) Are Staggeringly Ignorant

And proud of it.

[anonymous171]

4. No. nt

[virgogal]

20. I'm astonished at your elitist comment. eom

[MannyGoldstein]

25. Notice That I'm Not Saying Americans Are Stupid

Only that they're ignorant (whose root is "to ignore"). Obviously, we're ignoring the evidence that's in front of our face.

[Warpy]

30. You're correct, and they're kept so by a corporate press

and a dumbed down school system. Most don't have a clue where to look for information if they suspect they're not getting the whole story.

Ignorance can be fixed, but we need to get out there and do it ourselves because it's a sure thing the "news" and other media won't want to inform them.

An informed public is bad for business.

[defendandprotect]

31. Right . . . too many still trust our CIA/corporate press . . . !!!

TV is one of the last places to look for information, especially about health care --

there used to be a few exceptions -- I don't think so anymore.

[BlooInBloo]

2. Historical inertia.

[harun]

3. Because in France they elect more Engineers, Scientists and Academics

than anywhere else. In America we like our politicians dumb and incompetent (so they won't actually do anything).

[anonymous171]

5. What the fuck? Have you ever met any of those types of people?

They are just as dumb as the rest of us. The only difference is that they are better trained. Technocracy is a joke.

[harun]

13. I am one of those people. Not advocating technocracy just saying

lawyers aren't the only ones who can make good policy decisions.

[anonymous171]

16. Oh OK. I agree with you then.

Sorry about that. :hi:

[MannyGoldstein]

23. Massachusetts is the most liberal state in the US.

As you know, we are the only state with almost-universal health insurance. In most areas we look (statistically) much more like Europe than like the rest of the US. We have the best K-12 education system in the country (based on the NAEP results), and one of the few best in the world. And people are generally nice to each other, genuinely caring for their fellow man.

Why? I claim that it's because the place is lousy with engineers and scientists.

I like my technocracy.

[damntexdem]

39. Well, there IS another difference: they have better health coverage.

Better trained and better covered -- and that's no joke.

[TheCoxwain]

6. You will make a terrible salesman ! Make ours like the FRENCH !!!! Folks from dumbfuckistan

werent to happy to call fries "French" and you want us to copy the FRENCH.


Copy it -- but call it something else -- or say this plan is form Bible or something

[damntexdem]

40. Biblical healthcare coverage:

Oops, illegal code in the image. It was of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

7. Because Americans hate paying taxes.

Hell, I should go dig up some of my UK pay stubs to give people here an idea of what taxation looks like in Europe. And don't even get me started on the riots we'd have here if we had 17.5%VAT.

[tekisui]

8. American Health Insurance Companies.

[anonymous171]

12. /thread. nt

[aquart]

9. Because we never beheaded a CEO.

And they know we never will.

[anonymous171]

11. +1. nt

[RaleighNCDUer]

34. They hope -

but times change.

It's just about time to invest in tumbrel manufacturing stocks.

[mnhtnbb]

10. Because, as the French citizen quoted in Sicko said," In France

the government is afraid of its citizens and in the U.S. the citizens are afraid of their government".

or something very close to that.


Very pertinent observation.

[harun]

14. Agree, 100%

[leftstreet]

15. Bingo!

[redqueen]

24. Yep. (nt)

[K8-EEE]

27. Yes! n/t

[Cleita]

17. To tell the truth, I'm lukewarm toward the French system and it wouldn't be

number one on my best health care systems ratings list, however, it could be a more acceptable plan than let's say the Canadian system because it includes private insurance. The French provide basic health care through the government. The private insurance companies handle the claims with a contract with the government much like our Medicare does. They can also sell insurance for copays like the 20% the basic insurance doesn't pay and for extras like private nurses and many other bells and whistles or concierge type medical services. For the very poor who can't afford the copays, the government covers them with another basic program. If we can get our insurers to back off basic medical care, but sell insurance for the co-pays and extras, it could work.

The big difference between the French plan and the Massachusetts plan that our Congress is trying to foist on us, is that no insurance can sell basic health care. It is solely single payer at that level. It operates like our traditional Medicare with Medi-gap coverage. I think if Congress extended Medicare to all and allowed the insurance companies to plug the gaps in coverage or Medicaid to do so for the poor, maybe it wouldn't be a costly disaster like what is being debated now.

[ipaint]

19. The insurers are non-profit independent agencies not linked to the State.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_in_France

The incorrect meme implying that for profit insurers are part of all other health programs in industrialized countries is all over this board. Every thread someone pops in claiming other countries have private ins involved.

There is one country, Netherlands, that allows for profit ins. in the mix as of 2006. Their premiums for a single person is $142.00 a month. Hardy anywhere close to what we are looking at.

All other countries require their insurers who are competing with a government plan be non profit.

For profit private insurance is allowed to operate as an add-on to the government run program for folks who want the extras.

[Cleita]

21. Thanks for the correction that non-profit insurers are involved.

However, I don't know how we convince our present insurers to go non-profit.

:shrug:

[RaleighNCDUer]

35. Torches and guillotines? nt

[damntexdem]

41. OH, no need to be so draconian -- guillotines alone without the torches should do it.

;-)

[JDPriestly]

22. I had a very, very, very complicated Cesarean in Paris.

And I have only good, wonderful, excellent, the best in the world to say about the French healthcare system. Not only is the care itself the best in the world, but no one asks whether you can pay for anything. My problems were so unusual and so serious that I had to spend two weeks in the hospital after the birth. They made me wait until my baby had gained back her birth weight.

We had gone to France because the French government had assured my husband that he would have a teaching job there. The job fell through, so we temporarily had no income at the time of the birth. We had been covered by the insurance of another European country based on my husband's work, and there we were in the middle of a health crisis and as far as we knew our insurance had run out and we didn't have a new policy. Never mind. The French covered what turned out to be complex prenatal care, an even more complex surgery in which both my life and that of my baby were in extreme danger plus two weeks of hospital stay after the birth. How much did I have to pay? Nothing. Nada. Nichts. Rien.

It was wonderful. I adore the French. I adore the French healthcare system. You just don't get treatment better than I got. The doctors were wonderful, down-to-earth and loving. The hospital was clean. I had a semi-private room and through the window of my room, I saw my baby lying in her bed. Once I was able to get out of bed, I was permitted to go and pick up my baby any time I liked. There cannot be better healthcare anywhere in the world.

[K8-EEE]

42. Curious as to what is #1 on your list?

I mean, which country do you think has the best system?

[Cleita]

43. I like the Canadian system.

It works like our Medicare, only better, since it covers every one without the gaps in coverage that our Medicare has. It's paid for with a variety of taxes and doesn't burden employers with the cost. House bill HR 676 does just that and it's more cost effective than other hybrid systems. Our pols really should go back and look at that bill. It will be hard for them because the majority are in the pockets of the for profit insurers and health care industry and they prefer to ignore its existence even our President. You can find the complete text on representative John Conyer's website that I link to in my signature.

[The2ndWheel]

18. Why doesn't every country capable model their system like France?

[Romulox]

26. Same reason we must work so much harder for a lower quality of life than the French, I suspect. nt

[DailyGrind51]

28. Because Insurance Companies Have more influence with legislators.

America is an oligarchy of wealthy special interests, not a democratic republic.

[lindisfarne]

29. 86% of the French buy supplemental private health insurance; French system has copays

http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?articleId=12683

It's better than what we have in the US but people who idealize the French system generally don't know much of its details.

The French system also is one of the higher cost ones on a per capita basis.
http://www.kff.org/insurance/snapshot/chcm010307oth.cfm

[ipaint]

36. Ironic isn't it

From your article-

" VHA's complete adoption of electronic health records and performance measures have resulted in high-quality, low-cost health care with high patient satisfaction. A recent RAND study found that VHA outperforms all other sectors of American health care across the spectrum of 294 measures of quality in disease prevention and treatment. For six straight years, VHA has led private-sector health care in the independent American Customer Satisfaction Index.

Indeed, the VHA's lead in care quality isn't disputed. A New England Journal of Medicine study from 2003 compared the VHA with fee-for-service Medicare on 11 measures of quality. The VHA came out "significantly better" on every single one. The Annals of Internal Medicine pitted the VHA against an array of managed-care systems to see which offered the best treatment for diabetics. The VHA triumphed in all seven of the tested metrics. The National Committee for Quality Assurance, meanwhile, ranks health plans on 17 different care metrics, from hypertension treatment to adherence to evidence-based treatments. As Phillip Longman, the author of Best Care Anywhere, a book chronicling the VHA's remarkable transformation, explains: "Winning NCQA's seal of approval is the gold standard in the health-care industry. And who do you suppose is the highest ranking health care system? Johns Hopkins? Mayo Clinic? Massachusetts General? Nope. In every single category, the veterans health care system outperforms the highest-rated non-VHA hospitals."

What makes this such an explosive story is that the VHA is a truly socialized medical system. The unquestioned leader in American health care is a government agency that employs 198,000 federal workers from five different unions, and nonetheless maintains short wait times and high consumer satisfaction. Eighty-three percent of VHA hospital patients say they are satisfied with their care, 69 percent report being seen within 20 minutes of scheduled appointments, and 93 percent see a specialist within 30 days."

Right in front of our noses.

[RaleighNCDUer]

32. Because NOBODY is gonna make ME wear a faggy BERET! nt

[defendandprotect]

33. We need to know the details/specifics of other countries' plans . . .

We also need details on the luxury plans we pay on for members of Congress!

And we need to know what's covered --

[Echo In Light]

37. There's likely numerous experts who would 'explain-away' that #1 and #37 discrepancy

Count on it

[damntexdem]

38. But they kiss with their tongues and won't invade Iraq.

Who'd want their icky system, even though it's the best in the world and half as expensive as our low-rated system?