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DJIA now at highest level since Jan 7th (when you-know-who was President)

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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-20-09 02:28 PM
Original message
DJIA now at highest level since Jan 7th (when you-know-who was President)
For the record:

DJIA now: 8841

DJIA on 1/20/2009: 7949

DJIA on 1/20/2001: 10587

DJIA on 1/20/1993: 3241



To Recap....

Under Clinton:

From 3241 to 10587 in 8 years. A change of +227%.

Under Bush:

From 10587 to 7949 in 8 years. A change of -25%.

Under Obama:

From 7949 to 8841 in 6 months. A change of +11%.

At this pace, the DJIA will be 15085 when Obama is sworn in for his second term on 1/20/2013.
That's a change of +90% in four years.



Democrats are good for your 401K, 403b, pension plans, and investments. Republicans, especially those named "Bush", are not.
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ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-20-09 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
1. I don't want anyone to miss this so here's a K&R
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-20-09 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Thanks, man... half this country owns stocks in one form or another....

Whether it is their retirement plans or otherwise.


Obama's presidency has, thus far, given one a healthy 10%+ return.


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Lochloosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-20-09 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Make that 22% in the last quarter.
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Auggie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-20-09 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
3. Figures... I'm pulling money out.
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-20-09 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Why? You should've pulled it out when Bushie was President...
...not now.
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FreakinDJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-20-09 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. I pulled out in Nov 2008 and put it all back in when DJIA @ 6700
When Obam said "Stocks are at a good value now" - and so right he was

Thanks Dr Doom-and-Gloom You made my 401K
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-20-09 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Actually, you should have pulled out in Dec 2007.....
...for the maximum benefit.

That was when the DJIA was 14100.

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Auggie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-20-09 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #4
19. The coming defaults on Option ARMS has me scared shitless
This could be as big or bigger than the subprime debacle. The DOW could be back to 6700 by autumn/early winter.

LINK: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123327627377631359.html

AND:

With home prices falling, more than 55% of borrowers with option ARMs owe more than their homes are valued at, according to J.P. Morgan Securities Inc.

Nearly $750 billion of option adjustable-rate mortgages, or option ARMs, were issued from 2004 to 2007, according to Inside Mortgage Finance, an industry publication. Rising delinquencies are creating fresh challenges for companies such as Bank of America Corp., J.P. Morgan Chase & Co. and Wells Fargo & Co. that acquired troubled option-ARM lenders.

As of December, 28% of option ARMs were delinquent or in foreclosure, according to LPS Applied Analytics, a data firm that analyzes mortgage performance. That compares with 23% in September. An additional 7% involve properties that have already been taken back by the lenders. By comparison, 6% of prime loans have problems. Problems with subprime are still the worst. Just over half of subprime loans were delinquent, in foreclosure, or related to bank-owned properties as of December. The nearly $750 billion of option ARMs issued from 2004 to 2007 compares with roughly $1.9 trillion each of subprime and jumbo mortgages in that period.

Nearly 61% of option ARMs originated in 2007 will eventually default, according to a recent analysis by Goldman Sachs, which assumed a further 10% decline in home prices. That compares with a 63% default rate for subprime loans originated in 2007. Goldman estimates more than half of all option ARMs outstanding will default.

LINK: http://bx.businessweek.com/foreclosures--small-business...

-----------------

I did pull out. And I went back in. And I'm trying to get out now, with as much profit I can squeeze out now.
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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-20-09 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
6. Voldemort?
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-20-09 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
7. Another way to put this:

If you invested $1 in a DJIA index fund on January 20, 1993... it was worth $3.26 when Clinton left office.


If you invested $1 in a DJIA index fund on January 20, 2001... it was worth $0.75 when Bush left office.


If you invested $1 in a DJIA index fund on January 20, 2009... it has already grown to $1.11.... in just 6 months.
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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 05:17 AM
Response to Reply #7
23. It isn't a question of how much it's grown in six months, it's the question of whether
Edited on Tue Jul-21-09 05:22 AM by TheWatcher
It's fundamentally SUSTAINABLE.

This is just another Bubble.

But then again, you probably thought the Artificial runup from 03-08 was real too. And The Media and EVERYONE pumped it RIGHT UP TO THE COLLAPSE, and then told us all that "Nobody Could have forseen...."

:rofl:

How did that work out again?

Obama has NOTHING to do with this.

And they can run it straight up to 10,000 for the rest of the summer.

If there is nothing fundamentally driving it other than artificial machinations and Propaganda, then it's just more Bubble Economics that will eventually BURST again.

And with a devaluing currency, that isn't going to make those Big Gains matter all that much if the Dollar continues to go the wrong direction.
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TheCoxwain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-20-09 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
9. DOW doesnt mean squat
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 05:56 AM
Response to Reply #9
25. Exactly. What's it say when reported unenemployment is ~10% and global corps are making $$$$?
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-20-09 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
10. Give Reagan some love...
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-20-09 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Reagan was the only GOP President in past 88 years to have a >10%/yr market gain

The average GOP year: +2%

The average Dem year: +8%



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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-20-09 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
11. If the gains are because of
JP Morgan, Goldman and Federal Reserve projections of higher profits due to unemployment, then be sure you know when to jump ship...it's floating on Gov't Support.
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-20-09 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. NASDAQ has had 9 straight positive days... NASDAQ is mostly tech, not banks


Techs are leading us out of this recession...
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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 04:52 AM
Response to Reply #16
22. Delete
Edited on Tue Jul-21-09 04:56 AM by TheWatcher
This kind of delusion doesn't even deserve the trouble.
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no limit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-20-09 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
14. The point is that you are only 6 months in, so your comparisons are a bit unfair
Edited on Mon Jul-20-09 03:24 PM by no limit
you can't say that because in the 6 months under Obama the market grew 11% so in 4 years it will grow 90%. Once the 8 years are up you can then make a fair comparission. For all we know the dow could be down to 5,000 next year. remember, during the Bush years there was a point where the dow was going toward the 15,000 mark.
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-20-09 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. True..... but the trend for the last year of Bush's term was down...
...that trend has reversed itself since Obama took over.



Not a coincidence, I say.
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GeorgeGist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-20-09 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
17. How high does the DJIA need to go ...
before capitalism trashes the economy again?
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-20-09 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. You're conflating issues

Capitalism isn't bad in and of itself. Unregulated capitalism is.


Wall Street is not the same as "capitalism" either, by the way.


Capitalism is allowing private ownership of resources and means of production. That's not, in and of itself, a bad thing.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 04:26 AM
Response to Original message
20. Fluctuations in DIJA have nothing whatsoever to do with the real economy
Out here in the real world of rent, utilities, food and health care, the fundamentals totally suck. An economy 70% dependent on consumer spending will always remain fucked until consumers stop getting poorer, period. Debt will never work again to inflate another fake balloon.
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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 04:50 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. The OP simply doesn't get it.
Edited on Tue Jul-21-09 05:13 AM by TheWatcher
This Current Stock Bubble, (And despite of the rabid, foaming belief of the OP, THAT'S WHAT IT IS) is based on nothing more than Propaganda and artificial Manipulation of the Markets for the most part.

The Dow has become nothing more than a manipulated Casino.

There is almost NOTHING that has changed fundamentally in the Real Economy, which continues to get worse, and The Stock market has nothing to do at this point with being a Gage of a healthy economy. But the Cheerleaders like to flagellate all over the Manipulated Pig and scream "Recovery" when what is going on on Main Street is just a tad bit different than what is happening on Wall Street.

Oh but I KNOW, it's a fucking Jobless Recovery. Bernanke Monetizing the debt is GOOD for the Dollar, and Congress had no right to know where all the Bailout money went anyway, because it was to complex for them to understand, and so he was RIGHT to give them the finger.

The Disconnect about this issue continues to get worse, and worse.

But Wall Street will Continue to party at our expense, and The DU Cheerleaders, who are no more affluent than the CNBC Cheerleaders, will continue to gurgle and scream, and tell us it's good.

Just Ignore what's happening with the Dollar right now.

Just keep believing the Bank Profits are real, and Mark-To-Make-Believe Accounting has made it all better.

Hell, just ignore everything except the fake, propagandized Mainstream Economic News, which is completely WORTHLESS.

Praise Marty Moose.

What a Fucking Truman Show we live in.

And I love it how the Artificial Runups happen so frequently now, but almost every time they do, the Futures Cliff Dive after the close. Yes, that's SUCH a healthy, normal Market.

Render unto me a fucking break.

But hey, it doesn't exist, The Recovery is here, The Recession is over, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Jobs are not needed.

Just the Magic Jawboning of Hopes, Assurances, and Propaganda.

Look, if ANY of this Wall Street BS had diddly squat to do with a REAL Recovery, Those of us who can see what is REALLY going on, that get accused by The Cheerleaders that "We Want The Economy To Fail" WOULD BE CHEERING RIGHT ALONG WITH IT. And that's what they don't seem to get.

We want a REAL Recovery.

With JOBS.

And REAL GROWTH.

And a REAL, FUNCTIONING SYSTEM that functions for ALL of We The People, not just Wall Street, The Monied Class, Goldman Sachs, and Corporate Entities feeding at the trough AT THE EXPENSE of the Rest Of Us.

BUBBLE. ECONOMICS. DOES. NOT. WORK.

What in the FUCK does it TAKE to GET people to realize that.

Quit Giggling, Snickering, Drooling, and FAWNING all over the Dow, and telling us all that the pile of Dog Shit on the ground is actually a bar of Godiva Chocolate.

That Joke Isn't Funny Anymore.
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Kid Dynamite Donating Member (307 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 05:38 AM
Response to Original message
24. 30 to 40 MILLION people
don't have jobs or, just as bad, have jobs but are still under water. 7 million homes foreclosed.

How do you fit that into your little rubric?
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
26. The market recovered pretty nicely after the 1929 crash.
Then, as now, the fundamental causes of the crash were not initially addressed. Then, as now, asset bubbles were mistaken for "economic growth" and the government and Federal Reserve were believed to have put out the fire.

In 1929, just as is the case now, those who warned about the collapse before it happened were repeatedly ignored and denied any voice in the policy debate, while those who actually caused the collapse were put in control of the recovery efforts.

Remind me how things turned out in 1930? Then tell me why this approach will serve Obama any better than it served Herbert Hoover?
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