UNBELIEVABLE: Scandal puts spotlight on Christian law school. ASHCROFT changed hire rules.

[L. Coyote]

Scandal puts spotlight on Christian law school
Grads influential in Justice Dept.

By Charlie Savage, Globe Staff | April 8, 2007
http://www.boston.com/news/education/higher/articles/2007/04/08/scandal_puts_spotlight_on_christian_law_school/

VIRGINIA BEACH, Va. -- The title of the course was Constitutional Law, but the subject was sin. Before any casebooks were opened, a student led his classmates in a 10-minute devotional talk, completed with "amens," about the need to preserve their Christian values.

"Sin is so appealing because it's easy and because it's fun," the law student warned.

.....

And across the political blogosphere, critics have held up Goodling, who declined to be interviewed, as a prime example of the Bush administration subordinating ability to politics in hiring decisions.

"It used to be that high-level DOJ jobs were generally reserved for the best of the legal profession," wrote a contributor to The New Republic website . ". . . That a recent graduate of one of the very worst (and sketchiest) law schools with virtually no relevant experience could ascend to this position is a sure sign that there is something seriously wrong at the DOJ."

.....

The Regent law school was founded in 1986, when Oral Roberts University shut down its ailing law school and sent its library to Robertson's Bible-based college in Virginia. It was initially called "CBN University School of Law" after the televangelist's Christian Broadcasting Network,....

......

...in 2001, the Bush administration picked the dean of Regent's government school, Kay Coles James , to be the director of the Office of Personnel Management -- essentially the head of human resources for the executive branch.

.....

.... path to employment was further eased in late 2002, when John Ashcroft , then attorney general, changed longstanding rules for hiring lawyers to fill vacancies in the career ranks.

Previously, veteran civil servants screened applicants and recommended whom to hire, usually picking top students from elite schools.

In a recent Regent law school newsletter, a 2004 graduate described being interviewed for a job as a trial attorney at the Justice Department's Civil Rights Division in October 2003. Asked to name the Supreme Court decision from the past 20 years with which he most disagreed, he cited Lawrence v. Texas, the ruling striking down a law against sodomy because it violated gay people's civil rights.

"When one of the interviewers agreed and said that decision in Lawrence was 'maddening,' I knew I correctly answered the question," wrote the Regent graduate. The administration hired him for the Civil Rights Division's housing section -- the only employment offer he received after graduation, he said.

....much more.....

[Dhalgren]

1. This is why Goodling doesn't want to testify. She will be shown

to the world as an ill-educated, "cardboard" lawyer, who can't think her way out of a paper bag. She will be humiliated on a national stage and the Bush administration will once more be shown as bumbling, inept, and substandard. Let's parade these postage-stamp diplomaed simpletons before the world and show what bottom of the barrel dregs we have working for us in DC...

[Ilsa]

7. And I bet the "law school" hopes she won't have to publicly

testify as well. She can bring down the whole farce with her ineptitude.

And these are the people Bush wants running the show. No wonder he thinks he can get away with creating his own dictatorship.

[Hepburn]

11. I would like to know in what state she is licensed to practice.

There are three state bars in the US which are pretty much agreed to be the toughest ones: NY, CA and FL. In some states, the bar is not very tough. And in some others, at least it used to be this way in some states, all one had to do to become licensed was to graduate from law school.

To be admitted to federal practice, all one has to do is be a member in good standing of a state bar and then basically apply for admission to feddie court practice and be sworn in. It is NOT like having to pass another bar.

So....because of the above, I am very curious as to where Goodling was admitted to practice, assuming that she is admitted to practice somewhere. If this Regents law school is as described, I highly doubt if she could have passed one of the tough bars or maybe even have passed a bar at all. It is not just graduation from law school which mades someone eligible to practice law ~~ one must also be licensed and that is a function of the state in granting a license to someone.

So, if anyone knows, I would be curious to know if she is admitted and to what bar. I would love to take a look at the underlying licensing process.

[JoDog]

25. Story says she was admitted to VA bar

[meegbear]

2. I did a post eariler showing their first year course list ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3205878&mesg_id=3205878

[Ilsa]

8. Thank you for posting the link to that, I missed it earlier. nt

[hang a left]

36. That is a joke...right? Tell me it's satire.

[L. Coyote]

37. At first, it seemed quite believable, but... it is sarcasm, not even close to satire.

[hobbit709]

3. Ah Yes! Religious beliefs trump the law

Where have we heard this before? It makes them no different than the Taliban.

[Wilber_Stool]

41. Yeah, but ain't it nice to have

man's law to hide behind when things go sour?

[FiveGoodMen]

51. Very good point! I'll be god doesn't have a fifth amendment.

[NewJeffCT]

4. If they wanted - they still could have found plenty of Republics

among top law schools. While lawyers tend to be more liberal as a whole, there are still plenty of RWers in the legal profession.

[Raksha]

65. Yeah, but they didn't just want Republicans.

They specifically wanted THEOCRATS. Fortunately, there is still a difference. Maybe not much, but some.

[gatorboy]

5. These bigots are going to protect our Civil Rights?

Jesus....


Just how far does the rabbit hole go?

EDIT: Awright. I just can't spell today.

[tom_paine]

52. It goes all the way to the bottom of Bush's New "Capitalist" Soviet Union

which used to be the USA before 2000.

[The Stranger]

6. DOMINIONISTS -- it isn't mere favoritism, it is an attempt to create THEOCRACY

by invading the host and killing it from the inside out.

[Dhalgren]

10. Your observation makes more sense of this idiocy than any I have heard.

Good point...

[The Stranger]

12. Well thank you.

:patriot:

[hootinholler]

27. Absolutely! Robertson has admitted it during interviews.

I wish I had links available, but I seem to remember clips in a presentation from theocracywatch.org

-Hoot

[Raksha]

66. EXACTLY !!!! I came to the same conclusion on my own

while I was reading the OP. Didn't even have to read down this far before I could see it. Absolutely terrifying.

Re >>...it is an attempt to create THEOCRACY by invading the host and killing it from the inside out.<<

No shit, Sherlock! This is as unconstitutional as it gets.

[leftyladyfrommo]

9. Don't they still have to pass the bar?

I'm not excusing this stuff at all - I hate it. But even if the classwork is awful don't they still have to know enough to pass the bar?

[onenote]

43. yes they do

And, according to the story, about 70 percent currently pass the bar.

Also, its not as if Regent grads are taking over the government. There are over 1.5 million civilian employees in the executive branch of the government, with over a quarter million in DC alone.

[L. Coyote]

45. A good research project for anyone with time. What number are political

appointments and who controlled those hires, what criteria was applied, etc.

The real focus here is not all gov employees, just those brought into important and critical positions for political resons rather than based on merit.

Another focus, perhaps a sub-focus, is the extent to which, in this group of political appointments, were loyalists hired with greater favor than better qualified individuals that would also have met a reasonable political litmus test. In other words, were religious zealots favored over smart Republicans?

[FiveGoodMen]

53. You keep citing those numbers.

Let's say these people really want to overthrow Democracy and replace it with Theocracy. Let's just say so for the sake of argument.

Are you really okay with 150 enemy agents/spies in the US government just because there are many more who aren't?

[onenote]

54. 150 out of 1.5 million, most probably in very low level, entry jobs?

No, it doesn't bother me.

[TheBaldyMan]

57. is personal assistant to Gonzales a low level job?

I'm sorry to have to disagree with you but John Ashcroft made it possible to select public servants on the basis of political loyalty over abilty, I'd say that was of great concern. Regardless of the entry level it is a serious abuse of public trust and an abuse of authority.

[onenote]

58. Alberto Gonzales - Harvard Law School

John Ashcroft - U of Chicago Law School
Kyle Sampson - U of Chicago Law School
John Roberts - Harvard Law School
Antonin Scalia - Harvard Law School
Clarence Thomas - Yale Law School
Samuel Alito - Yale Law School
Elizabeth Dole - Harvard Law School
Michael Chertoff - Harvard Law School
Mitt Romney - Harvard Law School
John Bolton - Yale Law School
Joe Lieberman - Yale Law School



and, last but not least,
Pat Robertson, Yale Law School

Maybe we have more to fear from graduates of these schools...

[FiveGoodMen]

61. This is impolite of me, but your screen name certainly fits.

[fujiyama]

67. The schools you listed above

don't have stated goals to turn the US into a theocracy.

Frankly I think people should be more alarmed than they are. I hope a Dem president FIRES every one of these hacks that graduated from these "Christian" diploma mills. We need a purge of these types of hacks...

And as we have seen, the graduates from Pat Robertson U aren't all low level paper pushers either. The key is to realize that the graduates of more prestigious institutions have gone on to raise a horde of religious zealots.

[TheBaldyMan]

68. The schools are prestigious - the graduates less so

There remains the question, highlighted in the current edition of http://journals.democraticunderground.com/CrisisPapers/88">The Crisis Papers of political hacks being promoted way above their level of incompetence.

The credentials of several of the people you list seem to me to diminish the reputation of those law schools. Ashcroft seems to have had the forensic talent to remove barriers allowing underqualified but loyal agents into the halls of power. The rest do not strike me as a great legal brains trust, most can be described as political hacks rather than people who can present a reasonable argument let alone win one.

Of the names listed there are maybe four I'd say were high calibre lawyers, the rest debase the currency of advocacy in the United States of America. How can you hold up Gonzales' qualifications as a reason to respect his opinion, legal or otherwise. He was central to the "legal justification" for torture (amongst other travesties brought about by the current administration).

All of them should know better on the basis of their legal training and experience. That they have chosen to wilfully ignore the legal consequence reflects poorly on them and their party. Their actions are immoral, unjust and iniquitous.

edited for spelling.

[Karmageddon]

13. Not unbelievable at all. Perfectly normal for these people.

Then again, there's not much that they would do that I would find unbelievable, no matter how reprehensible. Everytime I think they've hit the limit of how much they can piss me off, they manage to prove me wrong.

[Canuckistanian]

14. "Sin is so appealing because it's easy and because it's fun..."

Just replace the word "sin" with the word "greed" and you've got this philosophy nailed.

[malaise]

15. Sandra Day O'Conner warned everyone

http://rawstory.com/news/2006/Retired_Supreme_Court_Justice_hits_attacks_0310.html

"I am against judicial reforms driven by nakedly partisan reasoning". Pointing to the experiences of developing countries and former communist countries where interference with an independent judiciary has allowed dictatorship to flourish, O’Connor said we must be ever-vigilant against those who would strongarm the judiciary into adopting their preferred policies. It takes a lot of degeneration before a country falls into dictatorship, she said, but we should avoid these ends by avoiding these beginnings.

[WolverineDG]

22. If you'd voted the right way, Sandy

we wouldn't be in this mess now, would we?

dg

[malaise]

24. Valid point n/t

[KansDem]

46. Yeah, Sandy "talks the talk" but doesn't "walk the walk"...

...especially when her retirement plans are involved.

[EST]

16. Half the night, last night on cspan-2, was one long, sick

commercial for this sick school.
I don't give a damn about what competitions they are supposed to have won, unless I were there and witnessed it, myself, I would not trust the reporting.
I know republicans and I know that they are capable of and, more often than not, guilty of cheating. They will find a way to game the system and have no compunction whatever of using it.
A recent article by John Dean-http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20070406.html on Findlaw, in a Q&A about Tom Delay, illustrated the authoritarian propensity to compartmentalize different threads of belief, avoiding conscience and self analysis.

Witness the fundy evangelico whose strongest ministry was a treatment of what he considered his own greatest weakness, commendable, but then went out hunting male prostitutes and dangerous drugs. His only controls were getting caught and held up to the examination of fellow afflicted, eager to "forgive" him and welcome him back to the fold.

The real problem comes from trying to solve a non-problem and avoiding the problems.

[Rob H.]

17. "Sin is so appealing because it's easy and because it's fun."

Well, duh. Why do you think I--um, I mean, other people--do it? :yoiks:

:P

[L. Coyote]

29. "Stealing elections is so appealing because it's easy and because it's fun."

"Stealing money from Indians is so appealing because it's easy and because it's fun."

"Stealing cash in Iraq is so appealing because it's easy and because it's fun."

I could go on....

[kevinmc]

18. I think it was just last Fall John Ashcroft became a Prof. at Regent.......

Must have had NOTHING to do with him hiring from there.

[napi21]

19. I couldn't find Bar pass rates by school, but I did find them by State.

From everything I've read, you can determine the ease or difficulty of a State Bar exam by it's pass rate, and the ones "usually" with the highest pass rates are MN, UT, and IA. I'm not sure exactly how that plays into your discussion here, but here's a link to Bae Exam stats for 2005.

http://www.adaptibar.com/bar_exam_statistics.asp

[Tatiana]

20. Well at least ONE Regent student gets it:

<snip>

In light of Regent's rapid evolution, some current law students say it is frustrating to be judged in light of Regent alumni from the school's more troubled era -- including Goodling.

One third-year student, Chamie Riley , said she rejected the idea that any government official who invokes her Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination could be a good representative of Regent.

As Christians, she said, Regent students know "you should be morally upright. You should not be in a situation where you have to plead the Fifth."

[Ino]

21. As Robert Wexler might say...

"I like sin because it's a fun thing to do!"
:rofl:

[EST]

23. I cannot resist the urge to add one more thought to this thoughtful

thread.
If one can work the magic of detachment well enough to get beyond the very real horrors being perpetrated on the world by these sick monsters, one can admire their strong strategy in the fight against the hated "libruls."

In this society, there has historically been a strong attachment between religion and ethics, witness the countless self aggrandizing religion & ethics productions, especially on pbs, and publications. The sly conditioning, through association, of religion, law, ethics, judges, and reporters has been accorded an unjustified respect and trust.

The cleverly cruel but effective strategy of the rabid right wing was to attack by invading our strongest defenses against corruption and inhumanity. Just like the AIDS virus, they turn our strongest protections into our weakest points.

Sadly, I fear that the only real hope lies in the natural revulsion for these underhanded, distressingly corrosive techniques by a majority of Americans and an expurgation of the perpetrators of their revolting behavior. Will it come soon enough?

I don't know.

[L. Coyote]

32. Will they bring down their belief systems in the process?

What is being revealed here is how make believe (religion) influences judgement. "Me good, you bad," is at the root of this movement, judging people based on whether or not they participate in the same make believe scheme.

In the end, perhaps we will develop a new, objective understanding of the dangers of the make believe paradigms and assumptions. The Founding Fathers knew all too well what they were doing by separating make believe and government. Separate realities are a danger to society, especially when a cult gains so much control and attempts to impose their views on everyone.

[EST]

49. I doubt it.

There have been face-offs in the past, when they were not as thoroughly invested as now, and, although it crippled them a bit, it did not bring them down.
If they would stick to their own knitting, I wouldn't care what they do, but they have to stay out of politics, as a group. We don't need a theocracy as a national or state government.

[glitch]

26. It must be tough running a fascist organization. Anybody with merit won't work for you

so you're left promoting on "loyalty". No wonder their main product is incompetence.
Even the mafia knows it's important to have skill in certain key jobs.

[hang a left]

38. I think that was their idea.

No free-thinkers. Only the "end justifies the means" loyalty amongst whacked out crazies that can be manipulated, with an insatiable craving to please their masters.

[glitch]

40. Sure, but look at the cost of no merit. None. That must be why fascism always fails.

The incompetence is built into their system. Self-selected.

[Rob H.]

47. Excellent points

All a person has to do is look at the sub-par (to put it mildly) performance of people like Rumsfeld and Rice. Rice ignores the August PDB warning about a likely Al Qaeda strike and gets promoted to Secretary of State when Powell leaves--the entire administration is like the Peter Principle taken to its most ridiculous extreme.

[glitch]

48. Yeah. I think the Peter Principle applies to meritocracies though. In this case

"loyalty" promotes them far, far beyond their level of competence. There should be a new principle, let's call it The Bush Principle, where competence is totally irrelevant, in fact discouraged, and the only thing that matters is loyalty to your incompetent leader.

There probably already is a theory on this, with its own snappy name, but I think whatever it is it should be renamed The Bush Principle, in honor of its being so beautifully demonstrated by this administration.

[Coyote_Bandit]

28. I live in Oklahoma and I am an attorney

I personally know some of the ORU law school alums. Some of them are very competent legal practitioners. Many who work in private practice serve the interests of their clients and are not motivated by a religious agenda. A number of the O.R.U. alumni work in non-legal positions in various industries. Of course there are some wacko fundie kooks amongst the bunch - notably Michelle Bachmann, Minnesota 6th district congress-critter and Chris Klicka, general counsel to the national home school legal defense fund.

What happened to the O.R.U. law school alums is tragic. Their school was "gifted" to C.B.N. in the fall of 1985. Those who were enrolled at the time first learned of this from the local evening television news. They have had virtually no placement services provided to them - from any source - ever. There was sexism amongst the grads and many of the men distanced themselves from the small number of women alums and refused to network with them. C.B.N. does afford the benefits of alumni status on the O.R.U. law school grads but specifically does not consider them alumni - something for which a number of O.R.U. alums are thankful. To my knowledge, no O.R.U. law class has ever had a reunion and the last graduating class matriculated over twenty years ago. These kids for the most part literally had no resources to fall back on after completing their degree. A number of former O.R.U. law professors later taught at C.B.N. and subsequently sued C.B.N. university. Herb Titus, the founding dean of the C.B.N. law school (now Regent) had previously served as assistant dean at the O.R.U. law school. I'm told that he arrived at his office at O.R.U. one morning to find the door locks changed and his personal belongings boxed. He later compared the O.R.U. law degree to an Edsel. Though it is not well recognized, there is a lot of bad blood between the two groups of law school alumni.

It should also be noted that, surprisingly, O.R.U. has a more liberal political history than might be expected. Seems Oral Roberts himself was a democrat. I personally heard him prohibit students and faculty from wearing black armbands on campus to protest the anniversary of Roe v. Wade. That would never have happened at Regent University or Liberty University or Bob Jones University. In a lot of ways O.R.U. has been considered something of a maverick amongst other Christian colleges and universities. A lot of reasons for that.

[MissB]

30. Fascinating insight!

[caligirl]

31. It says 150 of these charlatans are in the DOJ. DoING WHAT? They need

to be fired immediately, calling DIFI.

[onenote]

44. where does it say that?

It says that 150 alums of the school (not just the law school but also undergrads and other grad schools) have been hired to work in the federal government since 2001. That is an amazingly small drop in the bucket, given that, in the executive branch alone, there are more than 1.5 million civilian employees (and that doesn't count independent agencies, the judiciary, or the legislative branch).

A gentle suggestion: work on your reading comprehension before criticizing others' education.

[caligirl]

50. this is what I based my statement on> from another post linked above in the second (number 2 as read

in numerical order on the right.)
"To be honest, I didn't expected the Army of Bens to start influencing society until sometime in the next decade, but with 150 Regent Law grads serving in the administration now, the Army of Bens is a force to be reckoned with."

But read further at kos on the damage likely to be caused by these religion based lower quality 'lawyers'.

"It now seems that the Monica Goodlings of this "administration" have been planting partisan "sleeper cells" among the career civil service ranks -- the very positions that are supposed to be non-partisan and are therefore protected in their tenure by law. What this means is that the DoJ and other agencies of the executive branch are filled with people who understand that their role in the next Democratic administration -- which will be prohibited by law from rooting them out and firing them for political reasons -- is, as Atrios says, to take that administration down from the inside.

The only way to rid ourselves of them now may be... to conduct what the false-equivalency merchants of conservative media will compare to exactly the type of politically-motivated purge that the Republicans have been conducting, and for which we now condemn them. And if it happens, expect more "pox on both their houses!" spin -- after all, conservatives want Americans to believe that government is the source of all their problems.

What message does this send to current career civil service employees hired during the Bush years? That the thoroughgoing corruption of this "administration" has made them suspect, even though they may still be overwhelmingly non-partisan and unconnected with the Bush cabal. Could otherwise well-meaning and innocent civil servants go down for the Bush Gang's crimes? It seems certain that at least some will come under scrutiny, and of course, nothing would please the Bush junta more than to see innocent bystanders pay for their transgressions in their stead.

What's the best way to avoid such a fate? One way that comes to mind is this: If you're a career civil servant and you have evidence of Bush "administration" wrongdoing in your department, start getting ready to offer it up to Congressional investigators. And if you don't have it in hand yet, start looking for it.

And Congress? You're going to need to step up with more and better whistle blower protections for these folks if you expect to ever be able to put this right.

Absent some overt declaration now that things have gone completely haywire within the executive branch -- and impeachment comes to mind here -- the next Democrat to win the White House will be unable to reestablish control over the executive without falling into this trap."

* Permalink ::
* Discuss (307 comments)

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/4/9/115749/7533


we have more to be concerned about, like what these people are doing in our name.

save your criticism for something worth while. bigger issues need addressing, not petty shit. and i did call DIFI about these people. They may well be aware of illegal political activity by those in power and may have participated in it. worth a call don't you think?

[TheBaldyMan]

56. The original story in the Boston Globe has an interesting twist

http://www.boston.com/news/education/higher/articles/2007/04/08/scandal_puts_spotlight_on_christian_law_school/"> Scandal puts spotlight on Christian law school - The Boston Globe

It seems that the law school had a well deserved reputation for low standards. At first, in the 1980s, more than 60% of the law grads failed their bar exam at the first attempt. This was noted by the school administration and steps were taken to remedy matters. The main one taken was raising entry standards.

At the very end of the report a critic of the school bemoans the standard of the late 90s alumni of the Regent Law School thus:

In light of Regent's rapid evolution, some current law students say it is frustrating to be judged in light of Regent alumni from the school's more troubled era -- including Goodling.

Apparently the abysmal ratings that the school resulted in intensive remedial measures. Unfortunately the school is still turning out RW bible-bashers. Although one of the Regent straight shooters had this to say about Gooding,

One third-year student, (...) rejected the idea that any government official who invokes her Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination could be a good representative of Regent.

As Christians, (...) Regent students know "you should be morally upright. You should not be in a situation where you have to plead the Fifth."

ouch.

[pberq]

33. the case of Jesselyn Radack

You can get an inside look at the Ashcroft Justice Department in Radack's book, "The Canary in the Coalmine". I highly recommend that other DUers support this important whistleblower by purchasing this book:

http://www.patriotictruthteller.net/

[senseandsensibility]

34. kick

This is a very important article that will help DUers understand this scandal. Please keep kicked.

[L. Coyote]

35. And, post details on the Ashcroft changes if you know

I'd like to know details on Ashcroft's changes that undermined hiring the "best and brightest" in favor of the "holy and loyal." What else did Ashcroft change in like manner, aside from covering naked statues, of course.

[rasputin1952]

39. This line says it all...

"'Sin is so appealing because it's easy and because it's fun,' the law student warned."

That is precisely what the neo-Calvanist Ashcroft believes. It goes back to the Purticanical, "Somewhere, someone out there might be smiling; that means they are having fun. It is our duty to ensure this never happens!"

:eyes:

[camero]

42. Someone should remind them that greed is a sin.

Not like they would ever hear that.

[juno jones]

55. No more religious tax exemptions..

...that should go little ways in sorting this out.

[Blue_Tires]

59. crazy

just like all those shady, 3-room "prep schools" that continue to fill up the rosters of college football and basketball teams

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

60. How many Regent grads pass the bar? Is there any data on this?

[Coyote_Bandit]

63. Ummmm

I don't know about Regent law school grads. As a matter of curiosity, I've done my own research regarding O.R.U. law school grads. I looked at 3 of the 5 classes that completed all their coursework at O.R.U. Best I can tell the vast majority who took the bar exam passed. A small minority required more than one attempt to do so. There were a few folks who did not take the bar exam. There were several folks who took and passed multiple bar exams. As I mentioned earlier, I am acquainted with some O.R.U. law school alums who are professional colleagues and who capably represent the interests of their clients.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

69. Okay I read the article, here are the numbers (67-71 percent pass)

I don't know how this compares with other schools. I misread the other stat, in the class of 1999 over half FAILED (60 percent) the first attempt, I read it as 60 percent PASSED on the first attempt, my bad.

"Seven years ago, 60 percent of the class of 1999 -- Goodling's class -- failed the bar exam on the first attempt. (Goodling's performance was not available, though she is admitted to the bar in Virginia.) The dismal numbers prompted the school to overhaul its curriculum and tighten admissions standards.

It has also spent more heavily to recruit better-qualified law students. This year, it will spend $2.8 million on scholarships, a million more than what it was spending four years ago.

The makeover is working. The bar exam passage rate of Regent alumni , according to the Princeton Review, rose to 67 percent last year. Brauch said it is now up to 71 percent, and that half of the students admitted in the late 1990s would not be accepted today."

[Coyote_Bandit]

70. Bar pass rates

vary a lot from state to state. Some state bar exams (i.e., California) routinely have pass rates of only about 50% and have for years. Other states traditionally have very high pass rates.

Whenever you have a law school that draws students nationally it is hard to use bar pass rates for purposes of comparison. That is true whether you are comparing one graduating class to another or one school to another. The pass rate only has meaning when it is considered in context. For the Regent measures to have validity they would need to be statistically weighted. In other words you would have to account for those who took bar exams in high and low pass rate states. Without the weighting the numbers have little meaning because you are comparing unlike things.

Credentials, educational achievement and professional li censure are poor indicators of skill. A paralegal has more skill and intrinsic value to a law firm than a new young attorney.

The bar exam is a high pressure exam that requires a minimum of two to three days testing depending upon the state component of the exam. There is a standardized national multi-state exam which is multiple choice choose the best available answer. The choices are usually some combination of right outcomes for wrong reasons or wrong outcomes for right reasons. The state portion of the exam is a series of written exam questions. In some states these are completed over a two day period. It is not uncommon for states to indicate that they may test as many as 40 to 50 areas of legal expertise including highly technical fields such as estate planning. Time restrictions prohibit the ability to test all possible topics. The exam is administered twice annually - in February and July. Some states offer the written state portion of the exam in the days prior to the multi-state exam while other states offer the written state portion of the exam in the days following the multi-state exam. It is not uncommon to test simultaneously in two states. Doing so requires writing state A bar exam, taking the multi-state then traveling overnight to the test location in the second state to complete the state portion of the exam in state B. A fairly significant number of attorneys do not pass the bar exam on their first attempt. Same thing is true of many others who test for professional certifications - CPAs for example.

Not defending the Regents grads, their alma mater or its teaching philosophy. Just trying to offer a bit of perspective.

[Raksha]

62. So this was the actual mechanism of their stealth theocracy.

They were trying to load the Justice Department with Regent University theocrats, and they succeeded pretty damn well until they got caught at it. So this was the link between the THEORY and the PRACTICE of theocracy. Terrifying...it's going to take me a while to digest this.

[Quantess]

64. Creepy. (no text)

[garybeck]

71. This is where the story gets juicy. KICK.

[bobthedrummer]

72. kick