DU straight women only please --

[xchrom]

Poll question: DU straight women only please --

this is strictly an hypothetical --

imagine that there appears the next male american heart throb -- good looking, masculine, confident on the screen, all the things
that you delight in for the 90 minutes while in a movie theatre.

he stars in a major romantic movie --

he is of the race of your choice, hair colour of your choice -- whatever it is -- he's sexy --

BUT he's 'come out' -- he is gay --

Poll result (82 votes)
you can suspend disblief and - enjoy the movie	(80 votes, 98%)	Vote
or you cannot suspend disbelief and do not see the movie -- or any movie of his	(2 votes, 2%)	Vote

[seabeyond]

1. rock hudson. n/t

[xchrom]

2. according -- 'some' -- he is disqualified. nt

[merh]

33. Why would he be disqualified.

I still see his movies and think he was hot. The characters he portrayed were hot

[xchrom]

39. because A} he wasn't out at the apex of his career --

and B} he was forced out at the end.

which ignores whether or not he was just a plain old ordinary male sex symbol in that main stream sort of way -- i'd say no matter what he was.

[merh]

59. but I know him as a gay and still consider his characters in movies

as sexy = the rumors about him being gay dogged him his entire career but they didn't stop him.

McMillian and Wife, that character was sexy.

[xchrom]

64. hey -- i'm with you -- but trust me this didn't come

from the deep dark recesses of my mind --

[seabeyond]

67. i guess the point is, watching his movies now, knowing he is gay, are we able to not see

the gay, but see him in the role he is playing. and we do.

that is in essence what you are asking

now if you are suggesting that a romantic lead can be out and be hired.... that is another question

i think what the public can do, and what hollywood would do are two different questions.

[xchrom]

73. oh horse shit -- if brad pitt was gay -- he would STILL get top dollar. nt

[seabeyond]

74. probably

i don't have a battle in this. i was just supposing what your question was. as i said, you disqualified hudson cause he wasn't out during the height of his career. if it is about being able to see him in the role, people are saying, even now, knowing, we can believe him in the role.

[Horse with no Name]

3. It's all fantasy, isn't it?

Who cares if I am not the object of his fantasy if he is the object of mine?

[xchrom]

5. if you read this thread you'll see what i mean and why i ask --

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

there are some sever cases of the 'icks' running around -- i'm curious as to how far it goes.

[REP]

4. That's not why I go to movies

I don't go to fantasize about a stranger I'll never meet. I go to either see a thought-provoking story or mindless stupidity. In either case, it doesn't matter if the actors are gay, straight, asexual - not relevant to their acting.

[xchrom]

7. i can appreciate that. nt

[musette_sf]

6. hey, i enjoyed "Cocktail" at the time...

[xchrom]

10. oh! -- now THAT'S interesting. nt

[noamnety]

8. I'm fine with that. Where I have problems getting lost in the role

is if I know the actor is a raging bigot or misogynist. Then I have a simmering contempt/disgust thing going on that transcends their character in the film, but that's easily solved by not seeing their movies. It reminds me of when all of DU would watch Bush's speeches on tv so they could critique them but I just couldn't watch the guy, he was too repugnant, I couldn't help responding to that.

Straight or gay isn't an issue at all - I've found gay guys attractive before, if that's what you're asking, and it's not like they are going to jump off the screen and ask me out anyway. They're all in the "ain't happening" category for me, so there's not much difference.

[EFerrari]

27. One of the most masculine, handsomest men I've ever met

is a gay poster to this board.

[xchrom]

35. oh! -- DO tell!

[EFerrari]

37. Are you kidding! He's MINE!

[xchrom]

41. ...

LOVE it. nt

[EFerrari]

49. I'm telling you, this man was seriously hot.

If I could have turned myself into a 30 yr old gay man, I would have done it IMMEDIATELY.



As it is, I just pine.

[xchrom]

66. oh honey -- me and PINE trees have a lot in common. nt

[EFerrari]

80. My thing in school was the Shakespearean stage and you know

there were no women at all in those productions. Juliet was a boy, Lady MacBeth was a boy, Cleopatra was a boy. The speculation was sort of endless. Women in the audience identified with a boy in love with a man and men in the audience got crushes on boys playing women.

[Greyhound]

52. James Woods?

And the tales I've been told about Tom Jones, yuck.

[xchrom]

68. tom jones?!?! -- spare me -- i don't want to know --

now if you have any nasty dirt on david bowie -- beyond mick jagger -- i'm ALL horny ears.

[Greyhound]

82. Not gay. A totally cruel asshole to the women that made his career.

Really, really bad stuff.
I've never heard anything about David Bowie, which is kind of remarkable because I hung out with a lot more music people than movie people when I worked out there.

[xchrom]

91. no -- i knew he was a jerk to women.

he was awful.

[noamnety]

79. I don't know much about him

but wikipedia always has the oddest things:

"In 2001, before the September 11 attacks, while on a commercial flight from Boston to New York City in August, Woods claims to have noticed two men, who were to later become two of the 9/11 hijackers, acting suspiciously on the plane and informed a flight attendant that he felt they were planning to hijack the plane. He filed an official report with the FAA about the incident."

[Quantess]

95. I thought James Woods was a republican.

Maybe I heard wrong?

[juno jones]

105. Oh god yes.

I have not been able to stand Mel Gibson since the 'Bounty' years all due to misogyinst statements that he made then. It hit a couple of friends and I because we had been, until that point, very appreciative of Gibson's ass being flashed at a point in the movie. It was sexy, and at the time we found him so. It changed abruptly when he opened his mouth. That he is also an anti-semitic bigot really has appeared to me to be the spoiled kool-whip atop the poop sandwich.

[Skittles]

9. would not care one whit if he is gay

he's an ACTOR

[xchrom]

13. would you marry me? -- be the queerest marriage ever and they'd have to write whole new laws. nt

[Skittles]

53. I had a hard time visiting San Francisco

I'd be swooning over some stud and I'd glance at my gay host and he'd say, "GAY" - grrrrrrrrrrrrr

[xchrom]

78. oh - my god!

you're the best! funniest damn person EVAH.

[babylonsister]

11. If he's a good actor, and sexy, I couldn't care less about 'his'

sexuality. I can be attracted to a gay actor or actress. It's like life. I can be attracted to a person, regardless of their sexual preferences.

Generally I don't care. More power to everyone.

[Jennicut]

16. Exactly.

Now excuse me while I go crush on Adam Lambert. LOL

[babylonsister]

46. Ha! No joke. That man was so HOT! And I couldn't have cared less

about who he liked-I liked him.

He has two CDs coming out, but the new material sounds good to me. Or I hope so. It's gotta be!

[Jennicut]

55. My husband was jealous.

Just kidding! He loves him too. I cannot wait for his CDs and I even want Kris Allen's too. Breathless was on the radio the other day and I loved it.
I am such an American Idol geek but its one of the few things I can watch with my 4 and 5 year old at night.

[babylonsister]

83. Sure, blame it on your kids.

I watched it the end of this year because of Adam. He's that hot musically imo. I hope he does some epic music, like Queen, Pink Floyd, even Led Zeppelin. He's someone I'm paying attention to at my age of 53. Hey, I liked him!

[Jennicut]

92. LOL. It started that way but now we have to watch it more then they do.

I am 33 so yeah I like rock music too, I grew up on it in the 80's.

Also, my kids get me addicted to inappropriate programming all the time. When you watch iCarly and Spongebob by yourself, you know something is wrong with you.

[babylonsister]

93. Haha! And ugh.

I've heard of Spongebob, but iCarly? I'll pm you my #, just in case.

[Jennicut]

97. LOL. We watch a lot of Nickelodeon, what can I say? Its better then the Disney Channel.

[juajen]

107. I loved him also, and I'm much older than you. NT (That stands for not telling)

[XemaSab]

If I can believe a straight guy playing a gay guy

why not the reverse?

And who the hell voted NO?

[xchrom]

14. they're not gonna show up here -- but i think a good guess could be made. nt

[Control-Z]

21. Wow. Someone did vote NO.

Didn't see that until you mentioned it. Gee. I wonder why they didn't offer an explanation.

[xchrom]

26. it does make one wonder. because MY GUESS is that it would be a woman

facing other women.

which -- sorta gets to my point.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

25. Daniel Day-Lewis in "My Beautiful Laundrette" just came to mind...

hubba.

I couldn't care less about orientation in their private lives -- their acting abilities interest me more.

[xchrom]

28. FABulous movie. nt

[Control-Z]

12. It so doesn't matter.

A sexy man is a sexy man. A good actor, a good actor. I don't get to have a relationship, or sex, with any male actor I find sexy - gay or straight.

It's about the enjoyment of fantasy and escape...

[xchrom]

18. and it's the 'sexy' part that i think really matters --

i think -- and it's just a thought -- 'sexy' will transcend boundaries.

[bliss_eternal]

69. I went to see Pirates of the Caribbean a few times alone...

...could NOT have dh there, while I was droooooling over the Depp.
Something about the kohl rimmed eyes, locs and pseudo Brit accent just did it for me. ---swoon---


(sigh)

[Jennicut]

15. Actors act and they are good at it. Straight actors play gay people and vice versa.

Its all fine with me.
Besides, gay men can be plenty sexy to straight women, believe me.

[xchrom]

20. that what i think! nt

[robinlynne]

17. what?

[xchrom]

23. what don't you understand? nt

[robinlynne]

29. fantasies are fantasies. Are you asking if we fantasize about a gay man in the same way as about a

straight man? Of course. a guy in a movie is a fantasy. in a fantasy, anything goes. We (straight women) fantasize about women too. and maybe more....

[xchrom]

32. i've been paying actors paychecks for YEARS -- i think much the same.

[Lilith Velkor]

19. Having worked in theatre before, I find this question...somewhat ironic.

[xchrom]

22. yeah -- i know what you mean -- i was a professional actor in a former life --

[EFerrari]

24. I know a lot more bi and gay actors than straight actors.

Ahem.

It wouldn't even occur to me to object if the actor was good.

[Kali]

30. if he can act + the other stuff

no problem - its all fantasy right?

ALL the best looking guys were in the gay bars back in the day (my day that is) and they could dance - no problem with "attraction" fantasies from me!

[Love Bug]

31. I love, love, love John Barrowman in "Torchwood"

He is hottie, hot, hot in it playing a Bi character (which makes him even hotter, IMO) but he is gay in real life. Who cares? He's still hot and I'll still watch him and nuture my bit of a crush.

[xchrom]

36. now THAT'S what i'm talkin about. nt

[Zort]

34. Neil Patrick Harris

'Nuff said.

[Hello_Kitty]

38. Interesting question.

I suspect most straight guys would have no problem suspending disbelief to enjoy an out lesbian who was gorgeous and sexy as a romantic (straight) lead. I also suspect it ties into views on gender and sexual agency. Honestly, it might be a little harder for average women (not the ones on DU, obviously) to look past the actor's expressed sexual orientation because women are conditioned to believe that being desired as an object by the man is crucial to their enjoyment of sex, so maybe knowing that the man playing that role on the screen will never be interested in women might interfere with that. Then again, while I'm fairly certain that Brad Pitt is straight, I'm also fairly certain that I don't have a chance in hell with him. This realization doesn't diminish his power to make me feel swoon-y at all.

Hope that made some semblance of sense to y'all.

[xchrom]

42. if sexy lesbians are the standard -- aren't we all

hopelessly fantasizing with the same burden?

again why di I go to the movies -- and for many many years?

i agree with the 'thrust' of what you are saying.

[Hello_Kitty]

56. Hehe!

I think you go to the movies for the same reason most other people do. To escape for a while. If I limited myself to movies where I could reasonably assume I could get laid by the main protagonists (of either gender), I wouldn't be seeing movies too often.

[trixie]

40. Like you have a shot

if you believe you can no longer fantasize about an actor. If you can fantasize a hollywood actor would date you, you can fantasize he is your "type".

[Hello_Kitty]

44. That's what I was getting at.

I have about as much chance of getting with Brad Pitt (who I assume to be straight) as I do with any gay actor.

[xchrom]

45. ? -- i'm not sure you understand this.

it's not about anybody's 'shot' -- not even remotely.

[orleans]

43. sex appeal is sex appeal regardless of anything else EXCEPT

if they're openly republicon or if i know they're a republicon

watching an out republicon in a movie or on tv will ruin the show for me

i can't get beyond my bias and disgust and i would prefer not to be reminded by having to sit through a performance by any of them

(i realize it's really prejudicial of me to say that--but i've had quite enough republicons since i managed to survive these past 8 fucking years.)

[xchrom]

48. ...

i feel ya!

[deek]

84. Clint Eastwood

I was proud of myself for getting beyond his personal disgusting behavior toward people with disabilities in order to enjoy the movie "Grand Torino".


Re the original question:

A person's sexual orientation has nothing to do with their attractiveness. As a straight woman, I can appreciate all genders' beauty, irregardless.

[Feron]

47. An actor's orientation doesn't bother me.

Ian Mckellan was married to a woman in Richard III and I didn't find it odd or unconvincing. To be honest, it's something you don't even think about.
I'd watch a romantic movie with a gay actor playing a straight man. If the movie is good, who cares?!

[xchrom]

51. see?!? -- i think thare are alot of you out there.

hell i've been watching you all get it on for YEARS! and still paid my money at the box office.

[bliss_eternal]

65. Of course there are...

...but it's not about us (imo). It's about the "dudes" comfort level w/films, as usually (they think) they are the one's paying to see movies.

[xchrom]

70. maybe not so much --

it's about 'the guy' getting the woman.

i'm told here on DU teenage girls won't go fo it, women won't go for it, and -- this being one example -- men won't got for it.

Top Gun would have gained the SAME dollars at the box office if the 'leads' were known gays or not.

it was sexy on multiple leveles -- forgetting it was a bad movie.

[bliss_eternal]

76. The dudes that make movies....

...basically make what *they* want--it's about their fantasies and desires. If they were making movies w/women in mind, there would be LESS female nudity, less violence, less gore, etc.

[xchrom]

89. well -- i'm not straight -- i'll let you be the expert. nt

[bliss_eternal]

102. Eye rolling...?

So let me get this straight, you can't go after the glbt male that made the asinine comment, so you're going to take it out on women of this community who naively take your bait and respond to this thread?

Clearly this poll had less to do with "women's desires" and everything to do with you looking for someone to blame for that guy's idiocy....and it has nothing to do with him having "foot in mouth" disease, but it's somehow just got to be our fault, as women...right?

Shame on me for thinking you sincere. Trust me, I won't make the error again.

[Lorien]

50. Rupert Everett nt

[xchrom]

57. oh yes -- oh my -- however he is used as an example

as someone who can't get a 'job' because he came out.

i'm not sure i think that's true -- more the 'hugh grant' end of the spectrum is just one end -- so to speak -- men occupy multiple points on the spectrum.

[bridgit]

54. I voted to suspend disbelief there's really no other option...

After my experience, and your's, in theater and perfoming arts my hope is that we're able to acknowledge it's more a matter of BE-lief

[xchrom]

60. oh. dear. lord. god.

BElief is right --

[handmade34]

58. movies are suspending belief

[xchrom]

63. god i hope so -- i pay them money for that. nt

[Maru Kitteh]

61. I'm watching a movie not his private bedroom tapes. Pass the popcorn and the smelling salts

This guy is HOTT!

[xchrom]

71. get the smelling salts out -- i'm coming to your house. nt

[bliss_eternal]

62. Perhaps consider polling the group...

...that Hollywood actually creates movies for--the dudes: the hetero, caucasian male demographic. This is about them, and their *comfort levels*...not about women at all.

That's the demographic with the disposable income (as far as they're concerned), because most of the time, men make more money than women. It's also the demographic that creates, writes, produces, directs and bankrolls films. Seriously. Think about it.

If the dude is single, he may take a date to a "romantic comedy." If he's married, he may take his wife and kids to a "family film." If he's single and out with "the guys" he may want to see an "action/adventure flick." They could give less than half of a damn what "women want to see" and even less about 'who or what we are interested in.'

I read that a prominent (and popular) male African American actor won't do "love scenes" with caucasian actresses. Why? Because (his words) "that's not what the demographic that see's his films want to see when they go to the movies." Guess what demographic he's thinking of, and making sure his films don't offend?

Has to be....the hetero, caucasian male.

It's who they all think of for entertainment...violent video games, nude scenes of women in films, jokes about various ethnic groups, jokes about glbt people, scenes of girls kissing girls. *I* certainly don't need to see scantily clad girls dancing around to make me want to buy leg hair remover...

Apparently all *I'm* interested in are how to get my floor clean, feminine hygiene products and pharmaceuticals for depression. But that's an entirely different thread topic.

[EFerrari]

72. That's a great, great point.

And it makes me think of all those black women novelists in the late 80s and early 90s that none of my betters in literary crit knew how to peg because THEY WEREN'T WRITING FOR WHITE MEN.

lol

It was so wonderful. Everyone was so hung up on critical categories and NO ONE knew what to do with these black women who were exceeding their boundaries all over the place. lol

[bliss_eternal]

85. It's all about the dudes...

...whether it's film, art, literature whatever. That's who we ultimately end up studying. Old white guys.

They run all the movie studios. Many were nerds in school, w/fantasies of getting "the hot chick." As such, that's how they cast their films. Ultimately, it's not about us (women). Never was, never will be. Hollywood is the film reel for the patriarchical fantasy. Nothing more or less.

Anyone doubting it, need only look at the on-going turnstile of hot, new starlets cast in films. Many appear in one or two things and are never seen again, because someone younger and hotter always comes along. The over 30 actresses are put out to pasture.

[Hello_Kitty]

90. Thank you!

This explains why fat, funny looking men are treated with such tenderness in movie scripts (and they routinely get to be hooked up with hot thin babes to boot!) while their female counterparts are relegated to sexless "friend" roles, if they are allowed to be seen at all.

[bliss_eternal]

99. Only men age in Hollywood.

Women just fade away (and are rarely if ever seen again). Apparently only Meryl Streep and British women (like Judi Dench and Helen Mirren) are allowed to age in Hollywood.

I'm sorry but an industry that treats women this way, doesn't give a damn how I feel about the male on the screen.

Truth be told, I find it positively creepy when they pair some grandfather aged dude with an eighteen year old young woman. Again, they cast based on "what they want to see." In their minds, there are no women w/wrinkles, age spots or saggy breasts. Just gorgeous, YOUNG, hot ones--with tight bodies who LOVE to have a bare mid-section and exposed cleavage. Oh....and they ALL LOVE old, fat dudes.

[xchrom]

75. straight men -- are going to go to the movies their women want them to go to --

now i'm not talking transformers -- i mean 'not sexy' -- BUT point taken.

but if we're talking about movies that appeal outside of the thirteen year old age range -- well...

[Name removed]

81. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[xchrom]

86. then if you didn't put the one and only vote that you wouldn't go see a

sexy out gay man in a movie that had mass appeal -- then please do so.

my observations of straight men are just that. -- some one from the outside looking in.

[bliss_eternal]

94. Huh?

I haven't said anything about NOT being able to be attracted to a gay man, nor did I vote that way.

My point is that no one in Hollywood cares what I think, feel, or want to see on screen, as a woman

If they are "unwilling" to cast glbt men in leads, it's because of THEIR issue with such a choice, not about women not being able to imagine the man in a specific way.

They make that choice. Passing the buck onto women is more divide and conquer crap. I'm merely pointing these things out, so you can hold the appropriate people accountable, and not think this is "about what women want."

[xchrom]

101. well -- i didn't comeup with this idea on my own --

you might -- might -- want to take it up with other women --
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[bliss_eternal]

104. That's your choice.

But women didn't initiate the comment. The glbt fellow is the one that told actors to "stay in the closet." Women merely commented on the thread. Some commented in a manner that you didn't like. It happens.

You are trying to exploit the fact that some made such comments, and create something to be pissed off about....OTHER than the MAN that made the comments originally.

Real nice. Way to go.

[Hello_Kitty]

87. And they are only going to go to those "chick" movies that present comforting tropes.

Like how women are desperate to get men to marry them. They put up a big show about how this "chick" movie is a big imposition on their time but really, in what way will "27 Dresses" or "The Ugly Truth" challenge their assumptions about women or gender relations or their male privilege?

[bliss_eternal]

96. Yes, and their current fave...

"He's Just Not that Into You"

...something else that shows women as "desperate for a man", etc.

These days, I'm thankful for cable. It's the only place I can see a woman over 35 (or even 40-something) in a lead role, that isn't disparaging of women, some ridiculous stereotype or a reinforcement of patriarchy biased bs. There's sexist tripe on cable, too--but not nearly as much that's released onto the big screen every year.

[Hepburn]

77. I have two words for you:

Rock Hudson...

[xchrom]

88. wasn't he wonderful? nt

[Duer 157099]

98. Kevin Spacey. What do I care?

I still love him.

[Quantess]

106. Kevin Spacey is a great actor who has been in many good films.

He doesn't seem gay to me, although he apparently probably is, in real life.

[aquart]

100. John Barrowman.

That's where I feel the unfairness of it all.

[juno jones]

103. At least he's not a scientologist or a conservative...

...I can watch all day and lament that the best ones are either taken or gay or both.

On edit: to think of it, two of my husbands have been bi...sex is more varied than we necessarily think...

[tomm2thumbs]

108. Rupert Everett

didn't want to comment as this is a ladies' discussion - just putting that out there.

[maddezmom]

109. locking

Please don't start a new thread to call attention to another DU'er.