Still Mocking CIA Conspiracies? Well, Mock A Little Quieter, Will You?

[David Zephyr]

Ponder this fact. Fact, not fiction...although it sounds like fiction.

The Central Intelligence Agency has been operating at least one funded program with people in its employment for six months now without the knowledge of the President of the United States.

Forget about the fact that Leon Panetta, the Director of the CIA itself did not know about this illegal enterprise, and rather focus on this:

1.) a former Vice President, Dick Cheney, an outspoken critic, if not enemy, of our current democratically elected president, left behind a rogue element within the CIA operating with Cheney's secret knowledge since January (that would now be 13% of President Obama's entire first term as President).

2.) Cheney's "stay behind" clandestine CIA structure was ordered by Cheney to be kept secret from the U.S. Congress and, apparently kept it secret from President Obama, too.

So,

That's a conspiracy.
That's a CIA conspiracy.
That's an illegal CIA conspiracy and it is a "high crime" if there ever was one.

Many of us who believe that the evidence of a CIA rogue element planning and executing the murder of President John F. Kennedy have been mocked with the catch-all "conspiracy nut" perfunctory dismissal of the facts that still support that belief.

The charge against us was always: "How could a rogue element of CIA operatives possibly be acting without the knowledge of a newly elected President?" "Why, that's incredulous. It can't happen here," we've been told with smug mocking.

Well, maybe those who mock might want to mock a little quieter these days. You think?

If it can happen in 2009, you still want to tell me that it couldn't have happened back in 1963?

Because I love this President, I worry about him.

Here's hoping that Attorney General Eric Holder will immediately launch his own full-throttle investigations with all hands on deck into this high crime...and treason.

[elehhhhna]

1. Rec? Check!

[Hannah Bell]

2. but there are no conspiracies, so how do we process this new info?

[ColbertWatcher]

15. We need to "rebrand" conspiracies! n/t

[Raster]

70. Quickly, let's dump this thread into the 9/11 dundgeon...

...there the usual team of conspiracy smearists is waiting and ready to deride, defame, insult and admonish anyone that dares suggest conspiracy in America. Let them handle the dirty work. After all, that's what they get paid to do.

[juno jones]

90. You know, that is an interesting statement.

For all the bitching the trolls there do about 'conspiracy therorists' and the amount of time 'moonbats' spend in the dungeon...I NEVER see those guys OUT of that dungeon, EVER.

Not exactly well-rounded personalities, huh?

[Raster]

93. They NEVER leave the office.

The terms of their employment agreements don't include fraternizing with the DU members.

Can you say "one trick pony"?

[Horse with no Name]

115. They skeer me

I never venture into the dungeon.

[Raster]

128. And that is the general intent. The powers that be would prefer that as few DU members as possible

venture into the nether worlds. It's so much easier to dissemble and dis-inform when the infrastructure is designed as an accomplice.

[Sterling]

135. I think most of the controversial theory's

I think most of the controversial theory's posted on this site get dumped into that dungeon and they are forced to post there mostly if they want to discuss things like all the lies about 9-11 and such that the government told us. I don't really get it. Some of those theory's are pretty out there but, there are some serious issues about things like that that should be open for discussion in the main forums. I don't blame the posters, I blame whoever locks their threads and makes forces them to stay out of sight, out of mind. I learned a lot of things that helped me understand why the iraq war was bullshit from the 9-11 discussions. It would be much better if we discussed those points of view in the main forums.

[exman]

139. I agree wholeheartedly n/t

[RevolutionStartsNow]

3. No kidding. It's amazing that it's coming out now.

Thanks for the great post.

[KoKo]

45. We have to hope that our votes counted for "LOUD VOICE!"

and that it will all eventually unravel. Those of us who have been here since the 2000 Selection have never given up. David Zephyr is one of them.

[tblue37]

96. I wonder what led to the revelation of the program to Panetta. I mean,

If they deliberately kept it secret from him for 6 months, why did they then decide to spill the beans on it, knowing he would probably close it down and reveal it?

[dmr]

118. It may have one person with a conscience, and it unraveled from there

or Panetta started digging, dots started connecting and lie detectors started exposing.

It frightens, angers and worries me: what else is there?

[havocmom]

133. could be they gave up one program to keep him from digging and finding others

Not an uncommon ploy.

[defendandprotect]

4. Anyone who believes in a "Conspiracy Free-America" is an idiot . . .

"Only a fool fails to doubt" . . . Shakespeare

We've had overt political violence by the right wing for more than 50 years

in an effort to destroy democracy and our Constitution.

[scubadude]

8. Shakespeare is a little behind the times...

Considering Cheney today's version would be "Only a fool fails to duck!"

Scuba

[MindMatter]

95. There is an agenda for just about everything

Very few things "just happen" in this country without some influence driven by somebody with a profit or power motive. And power motives and profit motives are the two sides of one coin.

[Grinchie]

117. Just look at Fricken General Motors and the destruction of mass transit!

All with the collusion and cooperation of the Oil companies, Tire companies, and the media.

Their penalty? A whopping fine of $5,000 and we get to live with the consequences.

Or what about Corporate pollution with Hexavalent Chromium?

Or Canyoneros that mysteriously burst into flame, or jump out of neutral and kill the mechanic. Or Cruise Control that bypasses the ignition switch is always energized to the battery?

Or GMO's allowed to infest our food supply without honest scientific study?

Or how about the Misinformation Campaign issued by unknown entities a few months back regarding H.R 875. It was a complete fabrication, which was a coordinated attempt to smear one of the first food safety bills that had any teeth, but they were successful in shaping public opinion against it.

Now we see a large amount of Union hating inflammatory speech being projected in vast amounts on the web, as if the Unions have anything to do with the economic downturn.

When ex-cia operatives and intelliegence personnel start working for Blackwater, you know something is up.

The American Government does not exist. It has rebranded itself as Corporate America, and claims all the rights and immunities as the other Corporations that have rewritten the laws to their favor.

[jhrobbins]

124. I was having a similar discussion with my best friend who is very rich

and is someone that you would think would be inclined to poo-poo these conspiracy theories, especially about JFK and he said the same thing - that we are being very ignorant if we fall into that trap that a conspiracy can't exist in America because of how many people would have to be involved. He said it wouldn't be difficult to have a large number of people in on it and mainly because we think it is impossible for a large number of people to be in on it.

[yowzayowzayowza]

5. Not immediately. Pass the budget first.

Make the Rz whine 'bout this thru the holidays. In the mean time... drip... drip... drip....

[JackRiddler]

6. No, wait til after and defund the CIA.

[yowzayowzayowza]

20. Don't hold your breath. n/t

[JackRiddler]

48. I'd rather say what I'd like than get what I didn't anyway.

[AntiFascist]

7. K&R, keep in mind also...

the rogue CIA group tied to the Kennedy Assassination was also involved in the CIA plans for the assassination of Castro. Legitimizing assassination for political purposes is a slippery slope.

[libertypirate]

107. I wonder how many training operations were cover for

actual assassinations.

The words "never implemented" seem to wreak of such a scenario.

[Rex]

9. Well sometimes you get the CIA you have at the time.

And since the JD already belonged to Cheney, he justed needed the NSA. Basically he controlled everything so the Admiral could get the TIA space time machine up and running, billions of dollars in futures stocks were at stake! Cheney/Rummy needed to know who to steal the money from years prior to 9/11, Iraq and now the 2nd Great Depression.

[Grinchie]

119. Being VP grants ownership to the NSA N/T

[Rex]

138. Well then that gave him everything he needed

to do what, I can only imagine.

[RufusTFirefly]

10. I'm not a huge Obama fan. But I worry about him too

"Lone nut" has always been a dubious excuse for the work of what we now would call "assassination squads," but in this particular situation I fear that there really are a lot of lone nuts out there, who would provide a perfect alibi for the BFEE.

[peacetalksforall]

12. Yep, all 'lone nuts' murdered the three K's. But, a lone nut didn't muder Allende or .

try innumerable times to kill Castro as others have mentioned. How many others - nearly precedes Cheney.

[Octafish]

24. Orlando Letelier and Ronni Moffit could have been saved by Bush's CIA...

Poppy’s CIA warned about terror plots and did not stop them

[David Zephyr]

33. Octafish!

I thought of you when I posted the OP. Great to see you.

I owe Skinner money and I'd better get off my ass and send it to him.

Thanks for posting here, but also for all the great threads you have brought to the DU regarding the murder JFK.

I think that this little "discovery" vindicates you. Stand proud. -- DZ

[defendandprotect]

54. If you mean Jack K, Bobby K and MLK, Jr. . . . they were not "lone nuts" ...

Oswald was employed by the CIA working on high level assignments and
probably also for the FBI.

Boby Kennedy was certainly killed by the same powerful right-wingers
who killed his brother.

And MLK, Jr. as well -- see Wm. Pepper/YouTube

[defendandprotect]

62. kick

[LiberalLovinLug]

82. Beck, Limpballs and others are providing cover

and stirring up the extreme right nutjobs, so that even now its a well known entity with all the teabaggers etc..

Then if the unthinkable happens, the MSM will say how its plausible that some 'lone nut' was responsible.

[sofa king]

11. Wait until you find out what that "rogue element" was doing.

I think they were torturing and murdering Iraqis at a rate of 500 a month for at least two years, perhaps six.

[tomp]

67. this is just an extension of the usual crimes of the cia.

the cia is a rogue element by its very nature.

[hootinholler]

13. These guys are not Cheney's boys

They were merely seconded to Darth by Poppy. Poppy is the man who owns these ops.

-Hoot

[crickets]

18. ^This. -nt

[hootinholler]

21. Cheney is an executive in the organization

Personally I think poppy is the CEO, Cheney might be the COO (pun intended)

-Hoot

[Ignis]

47. You've got it. It's all about the "long con" with the BFEE.

[Fire Walk With Me]

14. This is likely the element involved in 9/11.

The CIA require...cleansing. BushCo's grab for power is wide-ranging and utterly sickening.

Edit: Don't forget who once directed the CIA: Pappy Bush.

[JuniperLea]

27. Yep...

Despite the whining about CT's and "how do you keep all those mouths shut about something that big" bullcrap. How indeed, m**********r?

Remember, less than 1/8th of this iceberg is clearly visible above the waterline right now.

[PretzelWarrior]

16. kick

[Optical.Catalyst]

17. Cheney should be arrested and put in jail until formally charged

[Grinchie]

120. Nah, let him walk, declare some crime that he committed, then start a War on "X" to find him.

That strategy worked with Bin Laden.

Actually, I ran across one of the better researched documentarys of 9/11 a few days ago. Produced by and Italian goverment official, goes through the facts that contradict the official story. It's available on Google video and I receomend it to get the brain patterns moving.

The discussion on the Pentagon crash is pretty disturbing, and one has to imagine how they can attempt to get away with the fraud with a straight face.

Zero 911

[ellie]

19. CIA conspiracy? Stop talking crazy

er, forget it.


I eagerly await the usual suspects to come on DU and tell us we are all wrong!

[blm]

22. Right....the 'no need to open the books' gang who tell us we MUST move on.

.

[David Zephyr]

43. The worm is turning, blm. It sure has taken a long, long time.

Yep. You said it: When ever someone's got something to hide about the past or is uncomfortable with discussing it, they seem to always say, "let's move on already".

This was a very big story and I think it's just the beginning of a truly enormous crime about to be revealed.

[David Zephyr]

40. Cheney has run a government within our government for six months now.

By the way thanks for you lovely sarcasm.

Ponder the fact that Dick Cheney has known these long six months about his little extra-governmental operation and has chewed that morsel with relish knowing our President did not know.

That's treason.

[Octafish]

23. CIA means Conspiracies In Action

Even their cover stories have cover stories...

http://realhistoryarchives.blogspot.com/2007/07/tim-wei...

[Kingofalldems]

25. Karl Rove's DU pal always mocks any conspiracy involving repubs

And then gives the poster a couple of these--->

[troubledamerican]

51. Rove has a lot of pals on DU

[DevonRex]

26. Happy to rec!!! nt

[Mrs. Overall]

28. Good post. K & R

[Solomon]

29. This is treason of the highest order.

Cheney has been operating a covert CIA operation for six months into another president's term.

There can be only one reason to not have told the President of it's existence.

I think we have been teetering on the edge of something very dangerous happening. The atmosphere of hate being so ferociously ginned up by the media and hate radio. Sparking lone nut examples from time to time, and trying to turn the tide of public opinion so that a climate can be made within which to do the unspeakable. It would all be blamed on a lone nut again. We got plenty of examples of those, don't we.

Everybody should read "The Eliminationists How Hate Talk Radicalized the American Right" by David Neiwert. It's fresh off the press and very timely.

[Mrs. Overall]

31. +1

[Solomon]

36. Think of all those stupid "tea parties" and Cheney

running his mouth. Hannity, Limbaugh, all pushing and pushing to turn the tide of public opinion.

It's ugly. A lot of effort expended on their "revolution."

I'm shuddering right now. This is outrageous. There's no other way to describe it.

[David Zephyr]

49. It is indeed.

Treason.

[Enthusiast]

87. If it isn't prosecuted

the doors to U.S. prisons should be thrown open as there is no more egregious crime than this one.

[Grinchie]

122. Unless you are a regular citizen caught with some herb in your pocket...

Then the mandatory sentencing laws will confiscate your property, coerce your spouse to act as state witness against you in order to retain custody of the kids, and send you to an MRSA infested hell hole where the prisoners get to take out their misery on one another.

This disparity in the legal system is designed to bring down the nation. We must hold those responsible accountable, and remove the protections granted to the Corporations over the years.

[Hutzpa]

91. There is no reason to

operate a government without the knowledge of the President, NONE whatsoever.

NONE!

[Kingofalldems]

30. Kick this one

[H2O Man]

32. #50 recommendation.

Very good.

[David Zephyr]

34. Thanks, H20 Man.

This is a very, very big story. It has "legs" and it has far reaching tenacles.

As John Dean says, "Worse than Watergate".

This is treason. Treason.

[H2O Man]

35. I agree.

I just kicked an OP I posted yesterday (here on DU:GD), with a "thread" that I think you might like.

[Missy Vixen]

37. Proud to be the #59th recommendation

In the meantime, I'm wondering when the powder will be dry enough to do something about this.

It's time for President Obama to stop sitting on his hands and order Attorney General Holder to appoint a special prosecutor. Today.

[scarletwoman]

38. Excellent post, thank you!

It is indeed something to ponder.

sw

[G_j]

39. beware of Iran-Contra type show hearings

or 9/11 commissions

If many people are not deafeningly loud, and absolutely relentless,
we'll get a whitewash/cover up.

[troubledamerican]

52. There will be a 1977 House Assassinations Committee-style investigation. House of Reps only.

[Beam Me Up]

100. Exactly. Such "hearings" are examples of perception management control.

The 9/11 Commission for example was controlled by its executive director, Philip Zelekow, a Bush appointee and close confidant of Rice, and his team of handlers.

While at Harvard he worked with Ernest May and Richard Neustadt on the use, and misuse, of history in policymaking. They observed, as Zelikow noted in his own words, that "contemporary" history is "defined functionally by those critical people and events that go into forming the public's presumptions about its immediate past. The idea of 'public presumption'," he explained, "is akin to William McNeill's notion of 'public myth' but without the negative implication sometimes invoked by the word 'myth.' Such presumptions are beliefs (1) thought to be true (although not necessarily known to be true with certainty), and (2) shared in common within the relevant political community."

[Spoutwell]

41. some who mock are just doing their jobs so don't expect any change from them

and a lot of folks just can not get their minds around the dirty deeds these pros do for a living since it is so far removed from anyone's real world experience and so they will never believe it until they actually witness it for themselves, when it is to late.

however, i salute all those who do get it and work to spread the word though

[Raster]

103. "some who mock are just doing their jobs...."

No truer words. Welcome to DU!

[Hotler]

42. Kicking! n/t

[boppers]

44. There are thousands of intelligence programs Panetta and even Obama don't know about.

Nature of the Beast, so to speak.

That doesn't make every (or any) wild claim that something *might* be a sooper-seekrit program credible.

I'm waiting until the air gets cleared on domestic SIGINT activity, that's gonna be interesting....

Running clandestine kill squads, not so much, I think these were pretty much already publicly known about, or assumed.

[MindMatter]

98. So why did this one get such a reaction?

There are people running around saying that the essence of this program must have been torture and assassination. But that kind of thing is so routine of the the years with the CIA and with Cheney, that it wouldn't get any serious reaction. "Yeah? That's what they DO."

I expect the story will start to leak out, but I don't see how it could be a simple case of a Cheney-directed hit squad. That's a "Dog bites man" story.

Why did Panetta react so quickly and deliberately, and why all the stern faces on the members of the Intelligence committees? Clearly there is some other dimension at work.

My guess is that it has less to do with WHAT the operation was doing and more to do with HOW they were going about it. You go off the ranch to assassinate a few bad guys at teh CIA and I expect you'd be a hero, not a bad actor. However, if the essence of this story is that Cheney was still effectively in charge of a rogue CIA operation, one can easily see how Panetta and the Congressional Dems could get into a hissy fit.

But even that doesn't explain the reactions of the Republicans who are also privy to the briefings. When you read between the lines, it seems they were really troubled by what they heard. Oh, they put a brave political face on it by saying "We need to know more of the facts before jumping to conclusions ..." But they didn't dismiss this in their normal dismissive ways.

That suggests to me it isn't just about assassination or Cheney, that is, unless the assassinations were going after the good guys.

[ieoeja]

113. I think its the fact that it was deliberately kept secret from Congress.

It could have been a secret knitting circle, and it would have still provoked a reaction.


I assume Panetta is finding out now because it is budget time. Presumably Panetta isn't going to pass along budget requests without knowing for what. Of course, a paragraph relying on "I assume" and "presumably" isn't worth the bytes it is written on.


The big question is, what were they doing that they felt it necessary to keep it a secret from Congress? My bet: something domestic as the CIA is not supposed to operate domestically.

[MindMatter]

116. But this is business as usual for the CIA

It would be a surprise if they DIDN'T keep something secret. And nobody inside the beltway should be surprise in the slightest that Cheney was behind instructing them to keep it secret. He did that stuff every day.

You may be right that it was a domestic program. Could that be enough to really concern the McCarthyites in the GOP? Not normally, unless this was a really INSIDIOUS domestic program. Your basic illegal wiretap is not enough to bring out this response. It must be something much deeper than that.

[ieoeja]

121. It is ILLEGAL for the CIA to keep secrets from the Speaker, Majority and Minority leaders.

From most of the rest of Congress, yes. But not from those three plus a few others.

This is a Legislative-versus-Executive power issue. While the GOP is happy to cede their power to the Executive when a Republic sits in the White House, they become the staunchest defenders of Legislative powers you could want when a Democrat is in the White House.

[Grinchie]

123. Nobody mentions RAPTOR or TIA anymore

Even though these programs were published in plain sight as late as 2002 on Government web sites before they were removed, and pictures of Happy Puppies being threatened by well armed Al Qaeda looking guys replaced it.


Pointdexter was given that honorable program to do with as he pleased as I recall.

[gristy]

46. Two days ago I said to my Dad that it would be the CONSPIRACY that can bring it all down

n/t!!

[defendandprotect]

56. What we're talking about is really global fascism ...

and America and our attempt at democracy are primary targets --

[Enthusiast]

88. De facto Fascism

"America and our attempt at democracy are primary targets"

But but but, if we have democracy it has to extend to undesirables. So, no democracy for you!

[seafan]

50. Cheney's Shadow Government endangers us all. He's merely lying in wait.

This monster must be stopped.



America's Shadow Government: Part One, October 6, 2008


America's Shadow Government: Part Two, October 9, 2008




From Part One:

.....

At least once a year during the 1980s, Cheney and Rumsfeld vanished on top-secret training missions, where each of the teams practiced evacuating and directing a counter nuclear strike against Russia.

This all changed after the attacks of September 11, 2001, when it became clear that the assumptions that drove (Continuity of Government) COG planning during the Cold War no longer applied. There would be no warning against a terrorist attack. Thus, instead of relying on part-time bureaucrats and evacuation schematics, the Bush administration permanently appointed executive officials, stationed outside the capital, to run a shadow government.

The plans for the shadow government are more elaborate than many realize. Massive underground bunkers the size of small cities are sprinkled throughout the country for the government elite to escape to in the event of a national emergency. Mount Weather, near Bluemont, Va., is one of a number of such facilities. Built into the side of a mountain, this bunker contains, among other things, a hospital, crematorium, dining and recreation areas, sleeping quarters, reservoirs of drinking and cooling water, an emergency power plant and a radio/television studio. There is also an Office of the Presidency at Mount Weather, which regularly receives top-secret national security information from all the federal departments and agencies. This facility was largely unknown to everyone, including Congress, until it came to light in the mid-1970s. Military personnel connected to the bunker have refused to reveal any information about it, even before congressional committees. In fact, Congress has no oversight, budgetary or otherwise, on Mount Weather, and the specifics of the facility remain top-secret.

What is the bottom line here? We are, for all intents and purposes, one terrorist attack away from having a full-fledged authoritarian state emerge from the shadows, at which time democratic government will be dissolved and the country will be ruled by an unelected bureaucracy. And because so much of this shadow government remains under wraps, there is much we don't know about it. Yet that does not diminish the threat it poses to democratic government.

And for the last six months, Richard B. Cheney has operated rogue operation(s) at the CIA that he ordered to be kept secret from Congress for the past eight years.



We now have a new president that Cheney abhors.


For the past six months our new president and new CIA director have been unaware of the actions of Cheney's ongoing shadow government.


Will we see action to stop Richard B. Cheney from committing ongoing treason against the United States?



God help us if that doesn't happen very soon.

[troubledamerican]

53. Bill Moyers is a tinfoil Conspiracy Theorist??

If you don't believe in conspiracies

Then you don't believe in history

BCCI
Watergate
Tyco
Worldcom
Enron
Iran-Contra
Frank Terpil & Edwin Wilson
Silverado S&L
Operation Ajax
Operation Mockingbird
MK Ultra

All criminal conspiracies. All acknowledged by historians.

[scheming daemons]

55. Excellent post, David... this should be a Eugene Robinson editorial

It's that good.

[David Zephyr]

60. Well, thank you kindly, scheming daemons

I still can't get my own brain around the magnitude of this story. It swallows me. And it's disturbing.

I'm way beneath the soles of the shoes of the brilliant (and adorable) Eugene Robinson. But thanks for the kind words.

[scheming daemons]

61. I'm hoping Eugene, or someone like him, has a similar train of thought as you do....

...because this is an editorial that needs to be written by someone at a major outlet.

[spanone]

57. there should be alarms going off everywhere in justice dept.

[Incitatus]

58. Wasn't there a story a while back about Cheney keeping an office

near Washington and it wasn't really clear what it was for?

[Raster]

104. The "undisclosed location"?

[wroberts189]

59. Food for thought - Excellent post knr

[Hugabear]

63. This is why we need to dismantle the entire program

Start all over from scratch. Fresh start. The current organization is corrupt beyond repair.

[Jennicut]

64. Agreed. Get rid of the darn thing already. What good has the CIA ever done?

[tomp]

68. glad someone gets it...

...but don't hold your breath...the corruption is systemic.

[pjt7]

65. hello justice department?

Please do you're job.

[tomp]

66. but....but...conspiracy theories can't exist....

...because that many people can't keep a secret.

[Echo In Light]

76. The rationales the naysayers drum up are often quite revealing

I especially get a kick out of the projective 'People rely on CT in order to have an oversimplified explanation for complex events' bullshit.

Ha, um...oversimplified? No, that's the explanation that suggests no one lies, affluent people with convergent interests don't collude and conspire among their own ilk, powerful, secretive orgs carry out their schemes first and foremost with humanity and democracy in mind, and even though "mistakes" occur, the various systems of the corporate/state nexus are self-correcting.

[kenfrequed]

79. Yeah...

That is the rationale I have always been puzzled by. Never mind the fact that since you are hearing about it is possible someone DIDN'T keep a secret or cover something up.

[Senator]

69. K&+R

[L. Coyote]

71. How much else is not known to Obama?

Tip of the iceberg would be my first concern.

Then, how much are we NOT being told.

[dgibby]

72. Excellent post. Thanks, David.

This is the kind of stuff that makes me cry for my country.

[David Zephyr]

111. Thanks.

This story just hit me in the gut.

[pasto76]

73. even my volunteer mountain rescue team has conspiracies!

I just started a new one this week!

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

74. I haven't yet heard of Panetta firing the division head(s) who failed to inform him.

That abounds with meaning.

[tomp]

129. good point. nt

[WyldRogue]

75. Nothing...

...will happen as it has become the new Mantra of our elected officials these days: Laws for We the People do not apply to We the Elite

It's a shame really to see those deserving of the Rule of Law get free passes on just about everything while We the people would have been behind bars from Day 1.

Holder will 'pseudo-attempt' to hold some people accountable but the Elite machine is in full gear and there is no one that will stand up to them or for We the People.

[Catherine Vincent]

77. Do you know what your post remind me of?

Remember the scene in "V for Vendetta" when Inspector Finch was questioning the other agent if he'd really want to know if their own government was responsible for the killing of a hundred thousand people. You could tell in Finch's facial expressions that he's uncovered an awful truth.

[RainDog]

78. the assassination squads are part of a bigger problem- bad intel via torture

so, we have torture that produced bad intel, most surely including naming names of people who were assassinated.

people who may have been innocent of any crime, any act of terrorism. maybe they were a hated neighbor, some blood feud.

the reason we as a nation do not act in this way is because we believe in due process and rule of law. we believe it is criminal to execute innocent people. we believe that it is wrong if we were to get pulled off the street because of some false testimony obtained under torture and were then murdered.

because we believe this is the best way to insure justice.

right wingers will argue that they don't care about al qaeda being killed... and frankly, I think that it's better to go in an take people - and HOLD THEM FOR TRIAL and provide evidence of their guilt rather than go to war and kill hundreds of thousands of civilians.

however, this, we already know, is not what has happened.

on NPR this morning, the "justifications" were already on the air, saying something like democracy and intelligence agencies don't work in the same way... I don't have a quote in front of me.. but the gist of it was not that this was all bad, but rather we are tolerating such acts and no one seems interested in knowing the awful truth.

Cheney was voted out of power. His power needs to be severed. He is a dangerous man and unfit to wield power in a democracy.

[AntiFascist]

114. The awful truth is...

the previous administration simply did not value the lives of any foreigner who happened to be Muslim, unless they served some ulterior purpose. The whole reason for taking pictures at Abu Ghraib prison was to distribute the pictures and intimidate the populace. Much of this was about intimidation through death, torture, and psychology. Who else during the 20th century made use of such tactics?

[Wapsie B]

80. Ready the firing squads for each and every one of them. Cheney first.

[bobthedrummer]

81. There was a brief period of time after Watergate when both the Senate and the House investigated

the involvement of the US intelligence community in criminal conspiracies, and the failure of law enforcement to prosecute.

While as most citizens of a certain political maturity will recall the findings of the Senate's inquiry (led by Senator Frank Church) the House's version was broader reaching and, indeed, outlined some of these criminal conspiracies shielded by the abuse of "national security" classifications.

Rep. Otis Pike came to head that group of lawmakers that called for serious reforms and oversight-of course that never was realized.

I started a thread about these House investigations last year-it is linked below, and highly relevant to the OP.

"The Pike Committee"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[Pacifist Patriot]

83. All we need is one young good-looking rogue agent and we have a Ludlum novel.

Cheney is evil incarnate.

[libodem]

84. But don't you kinda think it's okay

because there were no blow jobs involved, only murder and mayhem? The guys that set this up are Republicans, for God's sake, and don't they KNOW what's best of us all? Are they not above reproach? Can they not just do anything they feel like in the name of TRUE PATRIOTISM, and force feed it to the rest of us and tell us to like it and we will? They have gotten away with high crimes and misdemeanors for the last 8 years, who's going to stop them now? Oh,and BTW, one of Dick Cheney's grandchildren is the Antichrist. <-Because you never know when you will abe attacked for mocking.

[leeroysphitz]

85. You lost me at Kennedy....

[Hutzpa]

92. How so(?) n/t

[rhymeandreason]

86. As is customary with these routine revelations of illegal and treasonable

offenses by Mr. Cheney, my heart beats faster, I begin to hope that the gravity and scope of the offense will be intolerable to the Congress and to the people and that there will be justice. Unfortunately, over the last nine years it has become apparent that nothing will be done, Mr. Cheney will sell his memoirs for some unimaginable sum, his daughter will be celebrated by the right and corporate media and elected to some high office and Mr. Cheney, as the revered and venerable elder statesman, will enjoy his autumn years shooting pheasant and consulting for Republicans. Merry Fitzmas!

[Hutzpa]

89. I will go one step further,

Cheney and his cohorts could have been planning a Kennedy style action, who knows,
I would not put anything past his sadistic ass.

That daughter of his is another one....









Edit: To also add; there could be instructions, something to the effect of.....if this does not
work take this action etc.. etc...

[David Zephyr]

106. The early word is that it was an assassination squad.

Sounds eerily too familiar, doesn't it?

[Hutzpa]

112. Indeed

History have taught us one thing, you ignore at your peril.

We should not allow ourselves to take everything for granted,
their whole agenda is based on a) us not paying attention, b)
us taking issues and concerns lightly.

There are always going to be signs, test period..... where an
individual will be sacrifice to get a reaction or explore the
temperament of people.

[valerief]

94. Agreed. The word 'conspiracy' like the word 'liberal' is not to be scoffed at! nt

[tblue37]

97. I wonder what led to the revelation of the program to Panetta. I mean,

If they deliberately kept it secret from him for 6 months, why did they then decide to spill the beans on it, knowing he would probably close it down and reveal it?

(Sorry--I posted this comment in the wrong place at first.)

[Joe Chi Minh]

99. Did they spill the beans, or did Panetta have other inside tracks? If

so, you may be jumping the gun, assuming it's the prelude to a whitewash. Or you may not, as the case may be.

[dorkulon]

101. There are real conspiracies, and false ones. Some deny all, some believe all,

and some are discriminating enough to distinguish between them.

[zipplewrath]

102. He never will

Obama will never know about every program at the CIA, there are literally thousands. This was a program that was barely functional, if it was operating at all. It isn't surprising that Obama didn't know about it. It's only slightly less surprising that Panetta didn't know about it. In fact, I suspect the only thing that was surprising to anyone is that Congress knew nothing about it. That is what got Panetta's attention. There are programs that Panetta won't immeditately know about. When they come to his attention, his presumption is assuredly that if he is hearing about it, Congress has, or soon will. If nothing else, they want the funding that goes along with Congress' concurrence.

[CubicleGuy]

105. Just like Clancy's "Clear and Present Danger"

Can we look forward to seeing a video of Cheney dismissively insulting Eric Holder by telling him, "You are such a Boy Scout!" sometime in the near future?

[tomp]

130. sounds like bourne and operation treadstone to me already. nt.

[lib2DaBone]

108. ....this is just ONE of the CIA Dirty Tricks We know about.

...and yes... Diesel fuel DID melt the WTC..


Now off to the 911 dungeon with you....

[Cetacea]

109. Skinner should create an anti CT dungeon. n/t

[LynneSin]

110. There's alot more stuff left behind then what you just covered

I cringe when I hear stuff coming out of the DOJ being referred to as the "Obama Administration". It's been proven that there are still folks who worked with the Bush admin in there pushing the agenda. To me, if wasn't said by Barack Obama or someone appointed by Barack Obama - I hold those comments suspect.

[wiggs]

125. Clinton was investigated for months over the firing of 7 WH travel agents...yet

the Bush administration purged hundreds of cia employees and replaced them with loyalists and barely a peep is heard even today with all the talk about Cheney's secret programs.....

[defendandprotect]

126. kick

[Stephanie]

127. Cheney has a home and an office in McLean, aka Langley

No wonder he didn't scurry back to Wyoming or Texas to count his money in comfort. Instead he set himself up right by CIA HQ, conveniently.

[madokie]

131. I say if it is that we have to obey the law

as 99% of us will do anyway then I say this needs to be investigated and worried not upon whose toes that may be stepped on.
Tried to rec.

[bobthedrummer]

132. Some active threads to consider before scoffing/disrupting

"In light of the assassination program, a few questions about some people I knew about..." (started by Octafish)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

"Internal Rifts on Road to Torment-Interviews Offer More Nuanced Look At Roles of CIA Contractors" (started by kpete)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

"All 5 of the Watergate burglars who broke into Democratic headquarters were CIA operatives" (started by NNNOLHI)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

"Cheney's assassination program, what if they were private contractors?" (started by arcadian)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

"William Colby stipulated to 'foreign assassination plots' to protect what?" (started by MinM)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

"Report: 'No geographical limitations on CIA assassination program" (started by robertpaulson)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

"CIA Domestic Operations Division: A DU collaborative thread" (mine)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[bobthedrummer]

134. .

[Gabi Hayes]

137. where's that snide, superior jagoff with the number in his name?

he's started some really obnoxious threads on this recently

[sce56]

136. Error: you can only recommend threads which were started in the past 24 hours

There can be not doubt the shadow govt is running this country!

[omega minimo]

140. Why was Impeachment Off The Table?

Why is Obama signing off on corporate government?