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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 06:53 PM
Original message
The Vilification of Cynthia McKinney
It makes me sad and angry to hear Cynthia McKinney accused of bigotry. Its bad enough to hear right wingers do that thats to be expected. But to hear charges like that spread on progressive web sites is depressing.

During her 12 year Congressional career, Cynthia McKinney was one of our most progressive members of Congress. In these times when so many Democratic members of Congress have disappointed us so much by their failure to stand up for liberal/progressive causes, I am especially appreciative of a congresswoman who has been consistently unafraid to stand up for what she (and we) believes in.

Because of her outspokenness on some key issues, there are few if any members of Congress who have been as feared and hated by the powerful as much as Cynthia McKinney. This article sums up many of the reasons for that:

First elected to Congress in 1992, McKinney was an outspoken opponent of the Bush administrations policies on issues ranging from the war on Iraq to cutbacks in social programs.

She took on the blatant disenfranchisement of Black voters in the Florida election in 2000. She held a hearing that determined that Florida state officials knowingly used faulty data to remove tens of thousands of registered voters from the precinct lists for being convicted felons.

McKinney helped expose the horrific conditions of Katrina evacuees. She castigated the Patriot Act and compared it to the FBIs Cointel program that targeted Dr. Martin Luther King, the Black Panther Party and other freedom fighters during the 1960s. She stood up for African nations to get favorable trade agreements and loans to improve their economies.

The right-wing focused on a lengthy radio interview she did in 2001, where she commented on the Bush administrations objections to there being an official investigation into 9/11. She stated that the public had the right to know what the administration and the various governmental agencies knew about any impending threats and when they knew. In this period prior to the onset of the war on Iraq, any and all criticism of the Bush administration was treated as heresy. McKinney was pilloried in the press, called a wacko and worse...

As a result of McKinneys many high profile words and actions, her primary opponent in her 2002 bid for re-election to Georgias 4th District House seat was massively assisted by a national media campaign of slander against McKinney. She won her seat back in 2004, but in 2006 her seat was targeted again, thus ending her Congressional career (apparently), as she was the only Congressional Democrat to lose her seat that year. Its a shame that some on the left have bought into the right wing slander against her.


A few words about anti-Semitism

As I noted in my last post, I know something about anti-Semitism because of my Jewish family history. Much or all of my family from my parents and grandparents generations were subjected to a great deal of anti-Semitism, and some were Holocaust victims. So I learned a lot about anti-Semitism from my family, though fortunately for me I was never subjected to much of it myself. Anyhow, in making charges of anti-Semitism against people, we should get some terminology straight.

Derogatory comments about Jews as a people are anti-Semitic. Derogatory comments about specific Jews, however, do not necessarily constitute anti-Semitism unless the derogatory comments are based on the fact that the person is Jewish, rather than something else. For example, Ive criticized Joe Lieberman many times. That is not anti-Semitism unless I specifically targeted him for criticism because he is a Jew.

Derogatory comments against Israel are NOT anti-Semitic any more than the criticism of any government is an indication of bigotry. For example, I have posted numerous criticisms of my own government, and yet I dont believe that that makes me anti-American or unpatriotic. By the same token, voicing concerns about or criticizing those who lobby on behalf of Israel in the United States is not anti-Semitic.

Then there is a gray area with respect to Zionism. Zionism was originally defined, beginning in 1897, as a political movement aimed at establishing a unique homeland for the Jewish people. Zionism was motivated by the fact that Jews throughout many parts of the world had suffered through many centuries of severe discrimination. Following the Nazi Holocaust, Zionism became much more popular, for obvious reasons. Being against Zionism was not necessarily a sign of anti-Semitism. There were many Jews at the time who were not Zionists or who were against Zionism for many different reasons. Nor was it necessarily considered an insult to be called a Zionist.

Today however, there are many people who use the word Zionist to denote something akin to Jewish imperialism. Is that anti-Semitic? The way some people use that word, it seems like a back-door means of expressing their anti-Semitism. But in order to know whether use of that term is an indication of anti-Semitism, one would have to consider the context in which it is used, and/or make assumptions about a persons motives in using it. Thats why I say its a gray area. It may be that most people who use that word today use it with anti-Semitic intentions. I dont want to argue about that here. It is usually best not to use that word unless one makes it clear how it is being used and that it is not meant as a slur against Jews.


On the claim that Cynthia McKinney is anti-Semitic or bigoted

Ive heard the claim that Cynthia McKinney is anti-Semitic many times, yet Ive never heard her make an anti-Semitic statement. When Ive looked into those and other allegations against her Ive never found anything substantive. Articles that accuse her of anti-Semitism make wide use of guilt by association, or cite criticism of Israel by McKinney herself as proof of her anti-Semitism. Youd think that if she was really anti-Semitic her accusers would be able to find a single anti-Semitic statement that she spoke or wrote herself.

For example, I recently listened to a radio interview in which McKinney was accused of exhibiting anti-Semitic views. Though the interviewer made several statements that could have been construed as anti-Semitic, McKinney did nothing to facilitate that. She never used the word Jew or Zionist. She did harshly criticize the Israeli government, primarily for its obstruction of a humanitarian mission to Gaza in which she was involved in December 2008. She said that the boat she was on was surrounded by Israeli warships that purposely and with violent intentions rammed her boat (the Dignity), threatened her and her fellow passengers, and prevented the boat from completing its humanitarian mission. She accused the Israeli government of lying about the episode in several respects.

Only once during the interview did McKinney mention the Jewish people (actually she said the people of Israel), as opposed to the Israeli government. That was when she said something to the effect that she believes or hopes to believe that the vast majority of the people of Israel are peace loving people who want to live in peace with their neighbors. She made it clear that her complaints were with the Israeli government, not its people.

And what about the complaint that McKinney shouldnt give interviews with interviewers like that, or that she should have argued with him when he made statements that could have been construed as anti-Semitic?

First of all, progressives are often interviewed by FOX News or other bigoted or corporate news organizations. Wesley Clark was even a commentator for FOX News. How many liberals have appeared on news shows with Pat Buchanan or other like-minded talking heads, for example? Do we accuse them of being bigots because of that?
Is there not a double standard operating here?

Secondly, McKinney granted this particular interview because she wanted to register a public complaint against the actions of the Israeli government an ally of her own country and draw attention to the humanitarian crisis in Gaza. Would respectable news organizations in the United States have granted her such an interview? Not likely. She had a point to make, and she used that particular forum to make it. She didnt wish to dilute her message by getting involved in a discussion about whether or not her interviewer had anti-Semitic intentions with regard to his remarks about Zionists. But she did not publicly agree with any remotely anti-Semitic sentiments that may have been implied during the interview.


The most important reason for right wing hatred of Cynthia McKinney

McKinneys questioning of the Bush administrations role in the 9/11 attacks on our country, and her opposition to the Iraq War were probably the biggest reasons why she became a right wing target. Indeed, it is fair to say that her words about George Bush in this 2002 speech crossed a line that many Americans consider sacred, especially with regard to Bushs role in the 9/11 attacks on our country, and also with regard to McKinneys adamant opposition to the Iraq War.

I'm most proud of my work to hold this Administration accountable to the American people. And after I've asked the tough questions, here's what we now know:

That President Bush was warned that terrorists were planning to hijack commercial aircraft and crash them into buildings in the US. (She then lists much more evidence of pre-knowledge of the event).

All of this has become public knowledge since I asked the simple question: What did the Bush Administration know and when did it know it? Now against this backdrop of so many unanswered questions, President Bush wants us to pledge our blind support to him. First, for his war on terrorism and now for his war in Iraq. How can we, in good conscience, prepare to send our young men and women back to Iraq to fight yet another war


Lets Not Help the Far Right in their Efforts to Destroy Cynthia McKinneys Reputation

The far right and corporate interests in the United States have developed a powerful, insidious and effective echo chamber for destroying those who pose a threat to them. Lets not forget the way that they repeatedly lied about Al Gore during the 2000 election campaign; how the zillions of repetitions of the Dean Scream destroyed Howard Deans Presidential candidacy in 2004; the swiftboating of John Kerry in 2004; or the Harry and Louise adds that derailed a national health care plan during the Clinton administration. In large part, these efforts and many more were successful because they were able to convince some moderates and even progressives to buy into their pile of lies and exaggerations.

Cynthia McKinney has some issues with the nation of Israel, in particular with their alliance with militant Neoconservatives in the United States. She has not hesitated to voice her opinions on these issues. Her enemies, especially those with an interest in propagating war in the Middle East, have used this to paint her as anti-Semitic or bigoted, and too many people have bought into that myth. As a matter of fact, the same people did the same thing to former President Jimmy Carter, with respect to his book, Peace, Not Apartheid. But this is NOT a Jewish issue. American Jews in general are far to the left of the state of Israel and those Jews who lobby on behalf of Israel in the United States. In 2008, Jews voted Democratic for President in overwhelming numbers (78%), more than any other religious group, including none and other. I feel certain that if my parents were alive today that they would have similar criticisms of Israel to those that McKinney has.

McKinneys courageous stands have gotten her into great trouble with the far right and the powers that be on many occasions: Her steadfast anti-war stance; her efforts on behalf of the victims of Hurricane Katrina; her questioning of our governments account of the events of 9-11; her introduction of impeachment resolutions against George W. Bush on the floor of the U.S. House of Representatives; her participation with the Free Gaza movement in helping to provide humanitarian relief to the people of Gaza; and most recently, her refusal to sign an Israeli document that would have allowed her to be released from an Israeli jail in return for admitting guilt for violating an Israeli blockade in connection with her humanitarian mission.

Our country desperately needs politicians like Cynthia McKinney politicians who will not shrink from protecting the vulnerable or criticizing the powerful. Her words and actions mean a great deal to us in an era when so few public officials are willing to speak the truth about grave abuses of power by high government officials. Those same words and actions mark her out as a prime target for those whose main interest is in maintaining the status quo. Consequently, her words and actions are constantly twisted, exaggerated, and misinterpreted with the intent of marginalizing, vilifying and demonizing her. Lets hope that those who do that dont continue to get away with it.
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
1. Increasingly, "progressive" voices on websites are being drowned out
by disenchanted republicans who for the time being like our party better than they like theirs at this point in time.
They are doing everything they can to marginalize the progressive message and the messengers.
It happens everywhere. Even here.
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #1
130. There could well be something to this. Maybe their detoxing from the koolaid? n/t
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
2. What would you think of a progressive politician who gave an extensive interview
to an anti-Muslim hate site? What if that person just sat there and didn't challenge the ugly bigotry that the interviewer was spewing? Would you condone that?

Cynthia McKinney did just that when she gave an interview to Iamthewitness which is blatantly and hideously anti-semitic. She's earned the title of bigot.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I'd think she was doing what Obama asked us to do...and that's
"open dialogs with folks we might not always agree with."

I'm not familiar with that site...but then there are many Dems who do dialog with folks I wouldn't associate with...but I deal with it. :shrug:
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. bwahahahaha. Obama never ever did anything like that. Not even close.
It's an infamous hate site. period.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #12
115. "It's an infamous hate site. period."
So is Fox News.
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #4
113. Let me know when Obama interviews with Stormfront. nt
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. A lot of anti-Israel statements; no bigoted anti-Semitic statements.
Try again.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. I don't know how you do it
Edited on Thu Jul-09-09 07:41 PM by G_j
get away with inferring people here are bigots.
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. It most certainly is an anti-Israel site - but thats not the same as being anti-Semitic.
And McKinney herself doesn't make any statements that could be construed as anti-Semitic or bigoted against Jews in any way.

Try again.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. the interview was not given by, or to the ppl at that site
Edited on Thu Jul-09-09 07:32 PM by G_j
from what I can tell, although they posted it.
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Lithos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #19
144. Actually, yes she gave them to the site owners
She gave two interviews to Ognir who is affiliated with "The Info Underground" In addition to interviewing McKinney, Ognir has created radio shows such as "Jewish Domination of the World as We Know It", "Jews Behind Every Rock", "The International Jews Bankers". The forum associated with this site has threads seriously trying to deny 6 million dead in the Holocaust.


And she gave two interviews to David Bradford Smith, owner of "The French Connection" (aka Iamthewitness). This site in its very opening statement defends the basis of the Protocols of Zion, the very epitome of anti-Semitic literature. The rest of the site features many other classic anti-Semitic works in addition to updated versions which conflate Zionism with an International Jewish Conspiracy.

L-

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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #17
26. bullshit. it's an pure hate anti-semitic site extolling on the front page some
of history's more unsavory anti-semites- Father Coughlin, Archibald Ramsay, and many others. Here's a charming snippet from the site that you claim isn't anti-semitic:

The Complete Synagogue of Satan

Andrew Carrington Hitchcock
We now have all parts of The Synagogue of Satan online, covering the criminal Zionist history between 740-2006. This book will get you up to speed with the age old bloody history of the International Criminal Network.

The criminal zionist theory from 740? Do you believe that? How about that title, honey? Oh, that's not hate. That's not anti-semitism, that's just anti-zionism. What a stinking pile of shite.

Want some more evidence? Here, dear.

Israel did 9/11, ALL THE PROOF IN THE WORLD!!

Prez Barry Soetero of Israel

Criminal Jews At Work: Take Note Of Who They Are So They Came Be Driven From Our Nations

And it goes on and on and on with such crap.

Anyone who doesn't acknowledge that this is outright hate and anti-semitism is a sick little fuckwad.


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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #26
39. And where are McKinney's "bigoted anti-Semitic statements"?
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #39
53. silence is the voice of complicity and she lent her name and whatever sway and legitimacy she
has to a hate site. You do now cop to it being a hate site, right?
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #53
65. You make accusations, but can't provide any evidence
Except that which directly refutes your allegations, or is only guilt by association. If such innuendo was valid, the everyone who appears on Fox News must therefor be a Republican - including people like Pres Obama & Pres Clinton.

What did McKinney say that is anti-Semitic? Surely such a vocal & tumultuous political personality must repeatedly express such sediments - especially if they form the basis of her beliefs. And those personal beliefs would color her political statements as well. Where are they?
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #65
66. I'm accusing her of interviewing with bigots and not calling the interviewer on the hate and bigotry
expressed. There's irrefutable evidence of that. duh. it's fucking inexcusable for a supposed progressive to do that. And sorry, but this fucking site makes Fox look, er, fair and balanced. that's quite the accomplishment. Furthermore when someone like Bernie or any real liberal/progressive goes on Fox, they don't just let shit like Cynthia listened to slide by without comment.

Hey, still think that site is just dandy or are you willing to admit you were wrong and it's about as vile a scum pond as exists?
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #66
75. Guilt by association.
Isn't that one of the tactics Israel uses in dealing with Palestinians? They arrest a criminal, then they arrest his family, then they destroy his home & evict everyone in his neighborhood.

And it's worked so well for Israel too.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #75
83. which is also
used to paint some people here at DU as bigots or apologists for bigots.


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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #83
91. +1
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #65
120. I have to agree the other person has a very weak argument with why she's SUCH a bigot
good come backs with solid points.
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #53
89. Do you mean like when Obama or Hillary, or Bill was on fox news?
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 04:55 AM
Response to Reply #89
147. no. I don't. and as I recall there are plenty of DUers who argue against
dems going on Fox. But I explained the differences in another post in this thread.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #26
67. And what did McKinney say on the program?
Sorry, I don't believe in "guilt-by-association".

Exactly WHAT anti-semitic or other bigoted statements did she make in the interview?
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #67
68. Silence is the voice of complicity. She interviewed with one of the ugliest hate
sites on the net and sat there listening to ugly bigotry. She never called the interviewer on it. Sorry, that's bullshit Inexcusable bullshit.
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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #17
117. You said it's not an anti-Semitic site
The person gave you examples of it being an anti-Semitic site

You could at least acknowledge that
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #117
129. This thread is about Cynthia McKinney
And, as was posted elsewhere (#19) McKinney did not give any interviews to representatives of Iamthewitness. The interview in question was for a non-affiliated radio show which they merely linked to.

And at no point have any statements by McKinney been referenced which could be construed as being anti-Semitic.
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1monster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #10
49. Perhaps a gentle reminder that Palestinians and Arabs are also Semitic people is in order...
Edited on Thu Jul-09-09 08:04 PM by 1monster
The the Israelis and the Palestinaians (and other Arabs) are cousins if not siblings.

They all decended from Abraham.

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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. oh for pity's sake. perhaps an education on the word anti-semitic is in order.
anti-semitism is a word coined over a hundred and thirty years ago in Germany by one Wilhelm Marr that was expressly created to denote antipathy to Jews. There isn't a dictionary in the world that doesn't hew to that definition. Etymology is a curious things, and words often are not true to their roots.
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1monster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #51
78. The term Semite means a member of any of various ancient and modern people originating in
southwestern Asia, including Akkadians, Canaanites, Phoenicians, Hebrews, Arabs, and Ethiopian Semites. It was proposed at first to refer to the languages related to Hebrew by Ludwig Schlzer, in Eichhorn's "Repertorium", vol. VIII (Leipzig, 1781), p. 161. Through Eichhorn the name then came into general usage (cf. his "Einleitung in das Alte Testament" (Leipzig, 1787), I, p. 45). In his "Gesch. der neuen Sprachenkunde", pt. I (Gttingen, 1807) it had already become a fixed technical term.<1>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic


Main Entry: 1Semitic
Pronunciation: \sə-ˈmi-tik also -ˈme-\
Function: adjective
Etymology: German semitisch, from Semit, Semite Semite, probably from New Latin Semita, from Late Latin Sem Shem
Date: 1813
1 : of, relating to, or constituting a subfamily of the Afro-Asiatic language family that includes Hebrew, Aramaic, Arabic, and Amharic
2 : of, relating to, or characteristic of the Semites

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/semitic


The term Semites is applied to a group of peoples closely related in language, whose habitat is Asia and partly Africa. The expression is derived from the Biblical table of nations (Genesis 10), in which most of these peoples are recorded as descendants of Noah's son Sem.


of or relating to the group of Semitic languages; "Semitic tongues have a complicated morphology"
a major branch of the Afro-Asiatic language family
Semite: of or relating to or characteristic of Semites; "Semite peoples"
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn


conontation vs denotation/subjective vs objective...

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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #78
80. And yet, in all those definitions, not one for "anti-Semitism."
Hmmm...sounds like a little obfuscation happening.
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1monster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #80
90. To defind anti-semitism, one must first define semitism...
:eyes:
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #90
93. Um...no
Perhaps the fact the word was coined and not a natural progressions has something to do with it. You are no different than the right-wingers who say "homophobia" is the wrong word because they aren't afraid of gays or men (homo- Latin for 'men'). Your ignorant post is just one of many used to spread a dishonesty. Congrats.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 05:05 AM
Response to Reply #90
150. no. that's not how language works. do consider learning something about
it.
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #49
59. Another gentle reminder: park in driveways and drive on parkways. That is all.
Edited on Thu Jul-09-09 08:22 PM by Behind the Aegis
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cherokeeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #5
32. I suggest that you visit that sight before defending it, click in its search box
and type "holocaust", then peruse the results. Then type "crypto jew" and peruse THOSE results. Come back after that, and make the claim that there are no bigoted or anti-Semitic statements to be found there.

I double-dog dare ya.
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. +1
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. That's the interview I discussed in this OP
Did you read that part?

On what basis do you characterize it as an anti-Muslim hate site? There were no statements about Muslims made in that interview. In fact, the interview was primarily about a mission that McKinney participated in to bring humanitarian relief to Muslims.

I listened to the whole interview. McKinney did not condone any bigoted statements. She did the interview to bring attention to a humanitarian crisis.

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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. I didn't characterize it as anti-Muslim hate site. I drew an analogy.
The site is a pure and simply anti-semitic hate site. And her going on there and listening to the anti-semitic crap spewed by the interviewer was repulsive. She sure the fuck did sit there and not challenge the idiot conspiracy/hate spewed by the interviewer.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #14
22. She concentrated on her own message -- which was the humanitarian crisis
that she sought to relieve -- at some risk to her own safety I might add

The interviewer did make derogatory comments about what he referred to as the "political ideology of Zionism" -- as I noted in the OP. And as I said, that could have been contrued as anti-Semitic. McKinney did not give that interview to argue about whether the interviewer's use of the term "Zionism" was meant as anti-Semitic. She did it to bring attention to a humanitarian crisis about which she was very concerned. It would not have served that purpose to get involved in an argument with the interviewer. As I said in the OP, she did note that she believed that the "vast majority" of the people of Israel were peace loving. I don't call that anti-Semitic.

Even so, she did contradict the interviewer at one point, when he alluded to his believe that Obama did not have a U.S. birth certificate. It had something to do with Obama having gone under the name of Barry Soetoro. McKinney asked him politely at that point something to the effect, "How is it that you saw that document if nobody else did?"
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #14
27. Some people see the mention of the word Israel and see Anti-Semitic...
I've never understood that. I see Christians mentioned in all sorts of unflattering posts here and there. I don't go out there calling folks who criticize my religion "Anti-Christian." But, I will post a rebuttal to what they say if it seems unfair.

I never hear you post why you think that what was posted was unfair with documentation. You usually just attack the messenger or the web site. I wish you'd make more of an effort.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #27
38. that site is as bloody hateful as stormfront. every bit as much
she chose to give an interview to them and she sat there and listened to some blatantly anti-semitic crap without countering it at all.

And yeah, duh I attack hatesites.
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druidity33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. -1
in honour of the new un-recommend feature...

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The River Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. You Attack Anyone
who utters anything even vaguely related to Isreal
like when you accused me recently of comparing nazi's
to the current Israeli government when I never
said a word about either one. Attack and run.
Despicable!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #13
34. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #2
33. There are Jews that support McKinney
that want to know who facilitated that interview. Apparently, someone by the name of Lord Something-or-other was the middleman who set up the interview and the interviewer broadcasts under a pseudonym. The combination of the two would make it difficult to link the the name of the radio show "The French Connection" with Iamthewitness unless one already knew the connection.

Personally, I feel that she was set up.

Other guests of "The French Connection" radio show:

The Anglican Bishop of Jerusalem and a member of the Progressive List for Peace - a joint Jewish-Arab political party.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riah_Hanna_Abu_El-Assal

Gerald Celente, trend forecaster, who has also appeared on The Oprah Winfrey Show & The Today Show
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Celente




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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
3. K&R
Too many so-called Democrats here think that anyone with the slightest qualm about Israels policies toward Palestine are anti-Semitic animals who eat babies. In truth, fascism can and does emerge anywhere that fear rules - like Israel.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
8. Sing it. K&R and thank you.
:)
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
9. Interestingly, Zionism was once embraced by European antisemites.
Indeed, it seems to me that some contemplation of motives is an interesting endeavor in many regards.

On DU, the thinly-veiled accusation of antisemitism ranks right up there with sexism and homophobia ... often in an appallingly trivializing fashion.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
15. She's More Than Just A Bigot. She's A Dumb As Dirt Delusional Attention Whore As Well.
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #15
36. You seem to be projecting a little here! n/t
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #36
48. Quite a loud projection...
I'd say, too. :eyes:
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #48
52. Stadium jumbo screen like! n/t
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RufusTFirefly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #48
118. And, as Dr. Evil would say....


"Pretty shtahnderd"
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #36
124. Projecting The Truth.
The inarguable truth; in fact.
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #124
127. So you equate truth to effluent? n/t
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #127
164. So You Cook Babies For Pleasure And Eat Them With Mashed Potatoes???
No, I don't.

Truth is truth. Get over it.
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Zavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #15
64. +1. She was an embarrassment to the party and I was elated when she got voted out.
Now if she would only just go away for good, I'd be REALLY happy.
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DissedByBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #64
116. Agree, she's an insane liability
We don't need to be party of kooks. Too bad because she introduced some good legislation.
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Mugu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #15
132. I'm going to guess that's a no vote. n/t
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
18. Outstanding post. Thank you.
She is a sad loss for the party, imo.
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kayakjohnny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
20. Man, that was such a well-written piece.
I was captivated the whole way through. Thank you so much for the time you spent on this, and your heartfelt way of expressing yourself.

I'm amazed at the job you did here.

Bravo.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
21. Reason rocks! You are true blue my forum friend. K & R nt
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
23. K&R and thanks for another well written piece on an uncomfortable (for some) subject.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 07:36 PM
Response to Original message
24. Thank you.
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
25. I'm not convinced the batshit insane loon from the Green Party isn't an anti-semitic bigot
but nice try any way.
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and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. "anti-semitic bigot"...piss off..nt
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MellowDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #31
81. Your sig...
destroys your credibility on this. Just take out "religion" and fill in the blank with whatever you want. Man, have I heard that before. It is that kind of attitude that still threatens and has threatened many times "to destroy us all".
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #25
44. It's More Dramatic When You Capitalize The First Letter In Each Word Of A Flamebait Post Like That
:thumbsup:
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #44
85. I do that
in subject lines of OPs.

That's the appropriate way to present a title, and a subject line on an OP is a title.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #25
125. +1
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timtom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 06:15 AM
Response to Reply #25
156. Oops! There we go with the tell-tale
"batshit insane loon" phraseology. Speaks volumes.

It's almost like wearing a white sheet with eyeholes and thinking no one can peep your hole card.
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Kurska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 06:28 AM
Response to Reply #156
158. Whats wrong with saying "batshit insane loon"? n/t
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timtom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #158
166. It demonstrates shallowness and stupidity.
But that's just my take.

It's an easily recognizable meme that immediately reveals an unsavory agenda and an unwillingness to engage in substantive discourse.
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and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
28. Cynthia got up and did something, what did you do?
Edited on Thu Jul-09-09 07:40 PM by and-justice-for-all
and just how in the fuck is a bigot?? for trying to help oppressed people she is a bigot??! Whoever thinks that can go fuck themselves.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #28
165. I hope this is directed at someone else
I certainly wasn't calling her a bigot.
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
29. Correction.
Derogatory comments against Israel are NOT anti-Semitic any more than the criticism of any government is an indication of bigotry.

They are not always anti-Semitic. I have encountered more than a few comments which were anti-Semitic because it was an attack on the Jewish nature of the state. THAT is anti-Semetic. Also, employing rhetoric from the Protocols or other anti-Semitic canards are other examples.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #29
46. Ok -- It is possible that derogatory comments against Israel can be made with anti-Semitic intention
As you pointed out, when combined with anti-Semitic statements and innuendos in can be. But certainly, derogatory comments against Israel are not per se anti-Semitic.
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. Which is what I said, and you did not.
I never said, implied, or otherwise indicated deragatory comments against Israel are anti-Semitic per se. I will say this, there is an awful lot of bigotry when it comes to Israel.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #47
119. Certainly Israel has been deserving
of criticism with regard to the settlements. And I am not in the least anti-Semitic.
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #119
123. You have a point?
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and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #119
197. Thank you..
"criticism with regard to the settlements. And I am not in the least anti-Semitic." EXACTLY..
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FLAprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
30. K&R
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 07:45 PM
Response to Original message
35. Lets not forget she also abandoned the Democratic Party
Edited on Thu Jul-09-09 07:45 PM by ProgressiveProfessor
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. She didn't abandon it. She got voted out of office
In order to continue her political career she turned to another Party. I don't blame her for that. And I certainly don't have anything against the Green Party.
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #40
107. And then went over to the Greens
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #40
121. +1, she had no alternative. nt
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #35
41. Lets not forget that TPTB in the Democratic party abandoned her.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #41
57. True, and Georgia is all electronic voting state...with much controversy..
but many here might not remember that who are new.
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #41
106. See post #62
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
37. You mentioned Katrina...
Edited on Thu Jul-09-09 07:53 PM by SidDithers
but forgot to mention McKinney's batshit-insane claim of 5000 people killed, single bullet to the head style, and dumped in the swamps.

Edit: link to vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vVIhyWsa10

Sid
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #37
42. That claim about her is bogus
Just another attempt to villify her.

I discuss it in detail in this post:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #42
56. Where you admit you haven't seen the video? That discussion?
well, I have and it sure as fuck is not a lie. Your post, however, is less than honest.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #56
72. Did you read the Green Party response to the allegations against McKinney?
Does that not sound reasonable?

A lot of very bad stuff was happening in New Orleans in those days. McKinney was investigating it. She mentioned certain charges and did not claim that they were all true -- only that they were worth investigating. And they were.
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cherokeeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #72
87. She claimed that she had "verification" from "insiders" at the Red Cross that the allegations
concerning 5000 dead bodies, mostly male, who died from gunshot wounds to the head, were true. Watch the video and enjoy.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #87
99. Where is the video?
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cherokeeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #99
102. See the link Sid Dithers left for you in post #37. It's been there for hours.
While you're watching it, read my transcript.

She said what she said. Try and apply some other context to her words. Go ahead and try. Make me laugh with some weak attempt at spinning what she said.

Crazy as a loon, and willing to say anything, IMO.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #102
104. It sounds like she's saying that she has NO verification
I listened to it several times, and that's what it sounds like to me.

Anyhow, her bottom line is that it needs more verification. There were a lot of atrocities going one down there that were verified, reported by The Nation and other reliable sources. And probably a lot more that we never heard about. I talk about them in my post. McKinney's main point was that they need to be investigated, she was not claiming proof that they happened.
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cherokeeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #104
134. "I have uh verification from insiders uh who who wish to remain anonymous at the red cross"
So she put her statement that she had no verification in that context? That she had no verification by "insiders who wish to remain anonymous"?

That's a reach longer than my arm.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 06:11 AM
Response to Reply #134
155. Tell me her words don't sound a lot more like NO than uh
And if she said what you claim she did, I wonder why the RW hate sites left that part out.
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 07:46 AM
Response to Reply #104
161. Sounds to me like she says she has verification from multiple sources...
- the mother of the person charged with processing the bodies
- "insiders" (plural) within the Red Cross.

It's amazing the lengths that you'll go to to defend her comments.

Sid

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asksam Donating Member (200 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #87
173. I wouldn't put it past Bush & Co....
... to kill 5000 people execution style. I think we should let the Bushies prove that it didn't happen.
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #72
162. "McKinney was investigating it"...
So, when did she announce the results of her investigation into the 5000 bodies, with single bullets to the brain, dumped in the LA swamps? I must have missed her mea culpa on that one.

Sid
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #162
167. She never even claimed it was true. She said that she was told that.
Does it warrant a mea culpa every time someone investigates something that didn't pan out. There were a myriad of atrocities connected with the Bush administration's handling of Katrina. Allegations of foul play deserved investigation, and a lot of them did pan out.
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #167
174. Your blind defense of her is laughable...
"I have uh verification from insiders uh who who wish to remain anonymous at the red cross that this is this is true."

Her allegation, silly as it is, stands until she retracts it.

You can admire her for her stance on Gaza, or her criticism of Bush, or any number of other things she's done. But her comments in that video are a credibility killer for me.

Sid
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #174
179. Did you read the report that she wrote on the subject?
http://archives.allthingscynthiamckinney.com/mckinney.h...

I think that her official findings in this 70 page report are a lot more important than what she said in a three minute video, even if she did say that an anonymous source from the Red Cross verified what she heard from other people regarding atrocities. There were plenty of atrocities committed in New Orleans in the days following Katrina, by Blackwater and others that were sent in by the Bush administration. If McKinney stated allegations about a particular atrocity that didn't pan out that doesn't make her "bat shit crazy" or even irresponsible.
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #179
182. You're defending the indefensible...
She said it. She owns it. The claim that 5000 people were shot in the head and dumped in the swamps is so spectacularly wrong that it reflects on her judgement and intelligence for believing it, and her wisdom for repeating it.

Sid
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #182
185. In other words, no, you didn't read it and you don't care what it says
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #185
186. In other words, she didn't mention the 5000 people shot in the head...
Edited on Fri Jul-10-09 03:06 PM by SidDithers
in her 70 page report, so the report wasn't relevant to the issue we were discussing.

It was an attempt at misdirection. The old "bury them in paperwork" ploy.

She made a specific claim, and said she had verification. She showed a spectacular amount of gullibility and a profound lack of judgement. That's why I think she's doesn't deserve the deification she gets around here.

Sid

Edit: changed wording to better reflect subject in opening sentence.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #186
188. She did NOT claim that 5000 people were shot in the head.
She claimed she heard an allegation to that effect and she thought it was worth investigating. Here are some of the things that were documented in regard to the goings on in the aftermath of Katrina:

Jeremy Scahill describes the following activities by Blackwater USA, a prominent Bush administration contractor, during the response to Hurricane Katrina, from his book, Blackwater The Rise of the Worlds Most Powerful Mercenary Army:

The company beat the federal government and most aid organizations to the scene as 150 heavily armed Blackwater troops dressed in full battle gear spread out into the chaos of New Orleans All of them were heavily armed. A possibly deadly incident involving hired guns underscored the dangers of private forces policing American streets The security guard said their convoy came under fire from black gangbangers The guard said he and his men were armed with AR-15s and Glocks and that they unleashed a barrage of bullets in the general direction of the alleged shooters on the overpass. After that, all I heard was moaning and screaming, and the shooting stopped.

And A. C. Thompson recently wrote an article in The Nation titled Katrinas Hidden Race War In New Orleanss Algiers Point, white vigilantes shot African-Americans with impunity. It is a ghastly story of how, freed from the reach of the law, under cover of a catastrophe, a bunch of racist white men in a white enclave of New Orleans formed a militia to prevent black people from using their neighborhood as a sanctuary from death. Several horrific examples are provided in the article. Thompson describes how the racist militias thought of themselves:

Nathan Roper, another vigilante, says he was unhappy that outsiders were disturbing his corner of New Orleans and that he was annoyed by the National Guards decision to use the Algiers Point ferry landing as an evacuation zone The storm victims were hoodlums from the lower Ninth Ward and that part of the city, he says. Im not a prejudiced individual, but you just know the outlaws who are up to no good. You see it in their eyes There was a few people who got shot (black people shot by the militia) around here I know of at least three people who got shot.

The historian Lance Hill provides some perspective on what happened, noting that Some white New Orleanians think of themselves as an oppressed minority:

Because of the widespread notion that blacks engaged in looting and thuggery as the disaster unfolded, Hill believes, many white New Orleanians approved of the vigilante activity that occurred in places like Algiers Point. "By and large, I think the white mentality is that these people are exempt that even if they committed these crimes, they're really exempt from any kind of legal repercussion It's sad to say, but I think that if any of these cases went to trial, and none of them have, I can't see a white person being convicted of any kind of crime against an African-American during that period."

I'd rather that Congress be overzealous in investigating these things than underzealous.
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #188
190. She claimed she was told of the incident...
and had verified it with insiders at the Red Cross, so she knew it was true. She took ownership of the claim when she repeated it at a press conference. Yes, there were atrocities during Katrina. Yes, Blackwater are a bunch of goons and thugs. That still doesn't change the fact that McKinney attested to the truth of a claim that 5000 people were shot in the head and dumped in the swamp.

Sorry, all your handwaving can't change history. It's right there on video.

Sid
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #190
194. Oh she did not say she knew it was true. That's pure crap
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #194
198. Have you go so much pride invested in McKinney...
Edited on Fri Jul-10-09 03:42 PM by SidDithers
that you can't admit she fucked up?

Here's the video again:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vVIhyWsa10

From 1:30 on: "And I have verification from insiders who wish to remain anonymous at the Red Cross, this is true"

By repeating the claim, and vouching for it's authenticity, at a news conference, the claim becomes hers. Deny all you want, but it's right there.

Everyone else who watches this video knows what she said. And yet you seem to be deaf to her own words. Strange.

Sid

Edit spelling
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cherokeeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #42
70. Bogus My Ass. I've transcribed VERBATIM, just for YOU, her words during the press conference
where she made public her knowledge that was "verified" by "insiders" at the red cross that her words were true.

Enjoy...

"I had a woman in the wake of hurricane katrina i had a woman I've never really said this in public out loud in public with a lot of cameras and there's a lot of cameras in this room now but i had a mother, to uh call me because um her son had a very gruesome task. her son's charge by the department of defense waS to process 5000 bodies that had received uh a single bullet wound to the head and uh these were mostly males and um her son was afraid to talk because he had signed a uh silence agreement. so he only complained to his mother um but the data about these individuals was entered into a pentagon computer and then reportedly um, the bodies in a swamp in lousiana. um this is uh as a result of the tragedy of hurricane katrina. now, I have no, no and I have uh verification from insiders uh who who wish to remain anonymous at the red cross that this is this is true. i suspect that these were prisoners and um so, you know this uh this uh investigation of the whole prison industrial complex is is extremely important and um it it should it shoujld not end with just a question of the nature of prisons in our country but these 5000 souls also need some justice too."

Batshit insane and pretty crazy to boot.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #70
71. I"m so sick of people making shit up- like that McKinney didn't say something
that she fucking said on camera. It's pathetic. And the apologist crap for her going on a hate radio site that's as bad as Stormfront, is sickening.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #71
73. I didn't claim that she didn't say it.
I'm saying that the claims against her were taken completely out of context. When seen in proper context, she was acting not only reasonably, but courageously.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #73
77. that's just ridiculous. utterly silly.
Edited on Thu Jul-09-09 08:59 PM by cali
oh, yeah, and you surely did say it. You said the claim was bogus. do look up the definition of bogus. Nice attempt though to weasel out of saying something you damned well did say. So courageous.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #77
98. The claim was bogus
The claim involved not just what she said, but the interpretation that that made her some kind of a whacko.

Did you read the post that I linked to? I acknowledged that she probably said what they claimed, and then I provided the context for it. What don't you understand about that?

Hey, I don't make claims about people being bigotted without providing evidence to support it.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 05:09 AM
Response to Reply #98
152. It's bigoted, not bigotted and I suggest you read Lithos' post in this thread
which amply documents her slimy associations and that she has never called her friend's on their outright disgusting bigotry. Silence is the voice of complicity. Do interviews with haters from hatesites without challenging their bigotry, and yeah, reasonable people can draw the reasonable conclusion.

And your arguing that she didn't really say what she clearly said is just pathetic.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #152
160. Your arguing that I claimed she didn't say it is pathetic
I've already explained to you that my argument is over the context of what she said, not that she didn't say it.

And I read and commented on Lithos' thread.
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cherokeeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #71
84. I totally agree cali, but there are her words, transcribed verbatim from her press conference.
Edited on Thu Jul-09-09 09:10 PM by cherokeeprogressive
I'm assuming that all I'll hear from the poster I replied to is... wait... you guessed it... crickets.
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #84
163. Good job on the transcript...nt
Sid
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 07:55 PM
Response to Original message
43. K/R ya damn Leftist
:yourock:
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Bushknew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
45. Cynthia McKinney for the Nobel Peace Prize.
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #45
105. +1. She's a wonderful and courageous lady. n/t
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
50.  I have to think less of anyone who refers to McKinney as "batshit insane"
since they are just repeating right-wing talking points and the talking points of the DLC, which recruited a quickly converted Republican to run against her. There are a lot of people who are threatened by an extremely bright, outspoken black woman who sees through their bullshit and corruption. Actually, these types are threatened by ANYONE who sees through their bullshit and corruption. Witness the sliming of Dennis Kucinich.

I have seen film footage of McKinney in action questioning the witnesses in the BCCE case. If she's insane, we should all be so insane.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #50
55. "batshit" seems to be very popular.
Of course batshit is very useful as a fertilizer but whatev.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #50
74. I have to think less of anyone who defends her doing an interview on one of the
ugliest hatesites on the web and not calling the interviewer on his hateful crap. I have to think less of anyone who doesn't see he claim about NO citizens being murdered by the thousand and dumped in a swamp, as unhinged bullshit.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #74
76. OK, you're entitled to your opinion
I'm entitled not to like it.
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cherokeeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #50
82. And I have to think less of anyone who uses the same old intellectually lazy method of
stifling discussion, when the discussion expresses opinions they disagree with.

I'm talking about the old "repeating right-wing talking points and the talking points of the DLC" and "people who are theatened by an extremely bright, outspoken black woman" bullshit that people around here tend to accuse others of when they don't like the direction the discussion is taking. I could have omitted "black" from the quote because I've seen it that way too. Same with calling people trolls and telling them they can go straight back to freeperville from whence they came when you don't like what's being said.

I wouldn't even know where to find "right wing talking points" if I DID want to use them. You must though, since you accuse others of using them, in an effort to shut them up. I assume you're hoping that the next time they have something to say, they'll hesitate and wonder to themselves if what they're about to post could be construed by some as "right wing talking points", thus embarrassing them for having an opinion different than yours.

Intellectual laziness and a dog-whistle form of censorship IMO.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #82
95. I really don't care what you think of me
Unlike certain politicians in the Democratic Party (including one of my own Senators), I don't have a compulsion to please everyone.
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #50
94. +1
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #50
109. Agree 100%! Two hundred or so McKinneys in the federal government would fix a lot of things. n/t
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Desertrose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
54. Excellent post , Time for a change...
K&R.

Cynthia McKinney deserves way better than she got from the Dems IMHO.

Very good post! THX
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
58. K&R
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
60. It takes a Villiage
:rofl:
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ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
61. The vilification began shortly after she dared to question Bush
and sadly, many on our side were guilty. I guess she was the "wrong person" to lead the charge.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. baloney.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #63
79. forgot the n/t
meaning there will no further comment than the name of a luncheon meat.
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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
62. Hi. I live in her district. She was ousted by our Very Liberal Local Democratic Party.
I voted and campaigned for her several times.

But by her last run, she was damaged goods and an embarrassment to all Democrats.

Israel can keep her.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #62
100. What was it that she said or did
that made you feel that way?
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jasi2006 Donating Member (544 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
69. Thank you so much for your post. nt
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Boddingham Donating Member (80 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
86. Please
Criticizing the Israeli government's actions, or criticizing the United States government for seemingly supporting Israel come what may, should not be confused with being a bigot. There are many Jewish people who do not support all actions of the Israeli government or all actions taken by the United States government in support of Israel.

It is no secret that the United States government has supplied Israel with more than just mere nuclear technology. It is no secret that Israel has from 150 to 300 nuclear weapons, estimated. The United States can never admit this, although it is true, because if the U.S. government admitted it, it would also be admitting that it violated the nuclear non-proliferation treaty.

Obviously, my point is that just because one criticizes the Israeli government does not mean that they are anti-semitic.

Cynthia McKinney, of all people, would probably do everything in her power to avoid even the appearance of prejudice and bigotry. She is not a dishonorable person.
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Kurska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 06:04 AM
Response to Reply #86
154. America didn't supply Israel with nuclear Technology you twit, france did, learn the history, THEN
Edited on Fri Jul-10-09 06:18 AM by Kurska
YOU COMMENT. Not the other way around.

"do everything in her power to avoid even the appearance of prejudice and bigotry." Like "Fire" and then continue to campaign with her "It's the J-E-W-S" dad?

Honestly sometimes I don't know why I even try, the I/P conflict brings out all the big mouthed fools who think they can comment on anything without knowing a damn thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Israel...
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varelse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
88. Kicked, rec'd & bookmarked
please accept my undying gratitude for this, and many other posts of yours which truly serve progressive ideals. <3
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
92. Wish I could recommend a hundred times
I honestly don't get the hate of Cynthia by people on this board. I hear all of their outrageous accusations, but when they are refuted the haters just get nastier.

Thank you for taking the time to write this post. :thumbsup:
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ConsAreLiars Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 09:31 PM
Response to Original message
96. Thank you for so clearly and thoroughly summarizing the facts about that smear.
I have no clue about what motivates this attempt to establish guild by association with a website whose only connection to McKinney is that they put up her interview with a third party interviewer. It makes as much sense as claiming that every one whose video is linked on DU's political videos forum is a secret DUer. In some cases this smear is endorsed and spread by posters simply and obviously because they oppose her attempt to bring attention to the siege and occupation or otherwise ease the suffering of the Palestinian people. In other cases it is probably just the usual suspects who routinely bash any organization or individual that seems progressive or liberal. Maybe McKinney said no to an autograph request. Who knows?

None of those approving of the smear have found even one sentence by McKinney that suggests she even knows of that site, much less endorses everything or anything there.

But regardless of motives or agendas, honest people should have some respect for the facts and refrain from spreading or endorsing deceptive and demonstrably false smears.

Thank you again for the debunking.
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snake in the grass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
97. saved for later n/t
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northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 09:44 PM
Response to Original message
101. Cynthia McKinney doesn't need help being villified
her actions are good enough for that. seriously, anyone remember the Grassy Knoll Society?
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #101
110. I am so glad you endorse that there was indeed a grassy knoll shooter! n/t
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Obamanaut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
103. Well, there's this scuffle with the law in DC. Appears that rules for
most are not rules for her.


<snip>The 51-year-old McKinney scuffled with a police officer on March 29 when she entered a House office building without her identifying lapel pin and did not stop when asked. Several police sources said the officer, who was not identified, asked her three times to stop. When she kept going, he placed a hand somewhere on her and she hit him, according to the officials.
<more at link>http://www.wsbtv.com/news/8442213/detail.html
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #103
108. It reminds me of the Dean Scream
Or Al Gore's "sighs" during his debate with Bush

We don't know what they might have done to provoke her. What we do know is that anything she does that can be villified will be magnified by our corporate media as much as they are able to.
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #108
111. ... and for eight loonnnggg years the MSM ignored Bush's stupefying stupidity! n/t
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RufusTFirefly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #108
122. Indeed. And the stats for the "Dean Scream" are sobering
"The scream scene was shown an estimated 633 times by cable and broadcast news networks in just four days following the incident, a number that does not include talk shows and local news broadcasts."

Our ability as a society to be manipulated by the corporate media is really quite frightening. Usually, by the time some one definitively reveals the extent of the mass manipulation it's already too late.

Our false conclusions are already firmly rooted in our psyches.
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #122
128. I don't recall ever seeing Bush say, "Is our children learning." Go figure! n/t
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #108
126. And it is this point that we should
consider. Why is she being vilified? With all the horrible actors in congress and the fact that the previous administration remains unpunished, why is the focus on her?
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
112. Good solid case and Excellent writing. Bravo! and Thank You! nt
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 10:24 PM
Response to Original message
114. Anyone who claimed that Al Gore had a "low negro tolerance level" deserves vilification
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Boddingham Donating Member (80 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #114
133. Here
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crickets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
131. Fantastic post. Thank you. K&R -nt
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NYC Democrat Donating Member (234 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 11:08 PM
Response to Original message
135. McKinney is a joke and im glad she left the party.
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Lithos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 11:32 PM
Response to Original message
136. Yes, yes, yes, Cynthia McKinney is not a bigot
Remembering...

She almost said something in 2002 when her father speaking on behalf of her campaign talked about Jews being the cause of her defeat

She almost said something in 2006 when the she allowed her security group to be composed of viruently anti-Semitic New Black Panther Party members. She almost said something when one of them stated that her defeat was caused by Jews.

She almost didn't endorse and quote her very good friend Matthias Chang's book "The Shadow Money Lenders" to support her notion of a New World Order being set up. She almost also mentioned this book is part of a trilogy where he posits that a long standing conspiracy of Zionist money lenders starting with Rothschilds and continued on by people such as Soros and Greenspan are trying to establish a New World Order. She almost mentioned that Matthias Chang based this series of books from from the works of Eustace Mullins, a noted anti-Semite and author of such works as the "Biological Jew" and "Adolph Hitler, an appreciation" and that Chang's term "The Shadow Money Lenders" is synonymous with Mullin's "International Jewish Banker." She almost mentioned that this trilogy is of course only sold in the United States from American Free Press, a noted anti-Semitic site founded by Willis Carto. She almost also mentioned that Matthias Chang also has strong ties with many noted Holocaust Deniers including such as Mrs. Zundel, Michael Piper and many who write for "The Barnes Review" and "American Free Press".

When she endorsed her good "London friend", Pidcock, she almost mentioned his beliefs in a Zionist conspiracy which involved an alliance with the Illuminati and Young Turks to take over most of the Middle East including Egypt and Saudi Arabia and his close involvement with the virulently anti-Semitic website "iamthewitness", aka "The French Connection" which coincidentally enough also endorses a Zionist banking conspiracy also drawn from the works of Eustace Mullins and which hosts and promotes the works of noted anti-Semites as Henry Ford including the full text of his "International Jew".

She also almost said something to the several interviews with noted anti-Semites Daniel Bradford Smith and Ognir which were originally posted to well known anti-Semitic sites. She almost mentioned that she disagreed with his obvious anti-Semitic comments and Jewish conspiracy theories.

Remembering too that Cynthia McKinney recently founded DIGNITY to fight "inherent racism" in America, it is strange to note that one of the hallmarks of inherent racism is the sin of inaction. And given her opportunities, the sin of inaction and her continued association and support of the work of racists speaks volumes.


As for your comment about Zionism...

Then there is a gray area with respect to Zionism. Zionism was originally defined, beginning in 1897, as a political movement aimed at establishing a unique homeland for the Jewish people. Zionism was motivated by the fact that Jews throughout many parts of the world had suffered through many centuries of severe discrimination. Following the Nazi Holocaust, Zionism became much more popular, for obvious reasons. Being against Zionism was not necessarily a sign of anti-Semitism. There were many Jews at the time who were not Zionists or who were against Zionism for many different reasons. Nor was it necessarily considered an insult to be called a Zionist.


You are right and wrong, mostly wrong. Zionism is a word often used to mean many things. When used by historians of a reputable nature, it generally means those supporting some level of Jewish cultural renaissance and/or Israeli nationalism originating in the middle 19th century. Zionism in this case means "return to Jerusalem" whether symbolically by a return to original ideals or secularly by control of the actual city.

When used by anti-Semites of the type whom Cynthia McKinney seems to have spent a fair amount of time with, it is synonymous with a Jewish conspiracy to control the world and who use it as "cover" to provide cover from obvious claims of bigotry.
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #136
139. Well said.
:thumbsup:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #136
145. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 05:02 AM
Response to Reply #136
149. Thanks for putting it so clearly.
Cynthia McKinney give tacit support to bigots when she repeatedly associates with anti-semites spouting outrageous crap and doesn't EVER challenge the bigotry.

It's a sad and disturbing thing to see DUers defending that and going so far as to claim that Iamthewitness aka The French Connection, is not anti-semitic.

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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 06:25 AM
Response to Reply #136
157. This reminds me of the smearing of Obama with his association with Bill Ayers and Jeramiah Wright
Your post is so thick with sarcasm I can barely understand what you're saying. But I'll give it a try.

You start out by pointing out that McKinney's father has made anti-Semitic statements. Do you really mean to blame her for the remarks of her father?

Then you note some of her security guards made anti-Semitic remarks.

I don't understand your constant use of the phrase, "She almost did this, she almost did that". Why don't you just come out and say what she did?

There's an awful lot of guilt by association in your post. I would think that if a person was anti-Semitic and if so many people went to such lengths to make that case that somebody somewhere would be able to come up with at least one quote that she ever made in her lifetime to support that point. I'm sure that if she had said such a thing it would be all over the Internet and easy to find. So why don't you find it and tell us what it is?

Most people are judged by what they say and do. Cynthia McKinney seems to be judged by the what her friends or acquaintances say because... well, maybe you can tell me, since you think that's a good way to judge her.


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Lithos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #157
168. Cynthia McKinney
Edited on Fri Jul-10-09 10:07 AM by Lithos
First, this isn't about Obama. To bring this up is a nice distraction.

However, if you want to compare strength of character, Obama did what McKinney did not do and refuses to do. He forcefully and repeatedly distanced himself from the statements of Wright and to the man himself. I will not talk about Ayers because there never was an official relationship between Obama and Ayers and Ayer's activities were back in the 1960's and were never of a racist character. McKinney, on the other hand, has NEVER denounced or even addressed the anti-Semitic remarks which were stated officially as part of her campaigns.

As for direct behavior, McKinney has repeatedly endorsed the racist conspiracy theories of Matthias Chang even using his expression "Shadow Money Lenders" which is his version of "International Jewish Banker." She has participated in an overtly racist radio interviews, exclusive interviews, held by people known well for their racist views. In these interviews, the word "Jew" was repeatedly used as an adjective, eg, the president was said to be under the thumb of a Jewish conspiracy. If you don't get that that this is a problem, nothing I say will convince you.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with "pallin' around". This has everything to do with McKinney endorsing and accepting bigotry against Jews and promoting crazy conspiracy theories involving Jews.

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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #168
171. You make a lot of claims, but show nothing concrete
Edited on Fri Jul-10-09 11:45 AM by Time for change
You say that McKinney has "repeatedly endorsed the racist conspiracy theories of Matthias Chang..." But the only quote you come up with to substantiate that claim is "Shadow Money Lenders" -- hardly an anti-Semitic phrase. If she had meant that phrase to be a slur against Jews, wouldn't have she used a phrase like "Jewish shadow money lenders" or "Zionist shadow money lenders"? But no, "Shadow Money Lenders" is the only quote you can show me from her to substantiate her anti-Semitic inclinations. You don't see a problem with that?

Many of us on DU (including me) who are not in the least bigoted believe that financial elites in our country have perpetrated giant frauds against the American people (and others). The vast majority of us who believe that don't give a damn what religious background those people come from -- and I assume that they come from a diverity of religious backgrounds, including Christian, Jewish and atheist. It may be that there are some anti-Semites out there who hold similar theories but stress Jewish connections. One can agree with parts of a theory without agreeing with all of it.
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #171
176. Guilt by association, apparently.
McKinney's greatest crime appears to have been what she did not say.

How our standards have fallen.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #176
180. That's exactly right
Thank God I'm not judged by those standards -- or any of the rest of us, for that matter.
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #180
187. What if we held Obama to the same twisted standards?
Obama has offered to meet with Ahmadinejad on multiple occasions, and Ahmadinejad is a holocaust denier.

Given that Obama didn't speak directly against Ahmadinejad's statements regarding the Holocaust until early June, does that mean Obama's been an Anti-Semite for the first 5 months of the year?

:crazy:
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Bushknew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #187
192. Touch
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #176
203. silence is the voice of c omplicity. and Cynthia says that herself.
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EOTE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #168
177. This isn't about McKinney's dad or her security detail.
So, um, nice distraction. And Obama separated himself from Wright because he had to and he was running for President. I think having to disassociate yourself from your friends or acquaintances because of something that they say is extremely distasteful. Once again, you bring up something with absolutely nothing to prove it by saying "McKinney endorsing and accepting bigotry against Jews". I'll stretch logic to say that by her not speaking up during an interview that had nothing to do with the comments being made was her "accepting" bigotry. But would you please show me where McKinney has ever endorsed bigotry against Jews?
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #177
191. thank you
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Bushknew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #136
170. Ok, Jewish people have no influence on US affairs or in the world at all & people
who say they do are anti-Semitic.
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arikara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
137. Well done article. Thank you
I see lots of "ignored"s are stirring the pot as per usual every time Cynthia McKinney is mentioned.

:boring:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 11:45 PM
Response to Original message
138. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
mojowork_n Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 12:21 AM
Response to Original message
140. Thanks, TforC, for helping set the record straight....
...and along the way telling us a little bit about yourself. I've had you on my Journal page recommended blog links for almost as long as I've been posting here. I met Ms. McKinney last September at FightingBobFest. I wanted to ask her a question and waited patiently while she did an interview and talked to several people who'd been waiting to speak with her before I got there...

http://www.fightingbobfest.org

I don't know what else to add except that I was kind of bowled over by the thoughtful, decent, and straightforward, down-to-earth way in which she turned to meet each new supplicant. I suspect that a great deal of the criticsm she's facing comes from out-of-context, disconnected statements that may do more justice to her openness, integrity, and intellectual curiosity than to her personal ambition.

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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 12:24 AM
Response to Original message
141. as with the majority of politicians
anything that Cynthia McKinney has done or not done has been in support of the cause of Cynthia McKinney.
I wouldn't lose sleep over some nasty comments in her direction.
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 12:43 AM
Response to Original message
142. K&R, highly recommended....

The problem McKinney has been tackling is not unique to Judaism, Christianity, or Islam for that matter. It has to do with the far right-wing influence and how it has often attempted to subvert each religion toward their ends.

Conspiracy theories regarding Zionism were circulated in Nazi Germany in order to turn the population against Jews. Extreme right-wing forces now exist which would pit major religions against one another. One must ask, what is driving this?
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 12:57 AM
Response to Original message
143. I am not a fan of Cynthia McKinney but I am a fan of Cynthia McKinney's
right to speak, or run for Congress, or President.

I think her public career to date has been clumsy and ill-considered but sense in her a palpable energy that she may yet convert to the greater good.


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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 01:23 AM
Response to Original message
146. A very old adage says that if you stab the King, you better kill him.
McKinney is a strong and brave soul but she's using a rubber blade to kill the King.

If she is brave to assert her right to speak against power she also is stupid to stand with few allies and absolutely no plan for consensus.

Things change correspondent to societies reaching critical mass. That's when paradigms shift. Cynthia McKinney evidently does not know this, or does not believe this, and as a result, her bravery is wasted, IMO, on a sort of marquis martyrdom.

Her bravery is tilted far too much toward "I, Cynthia McKinney, shall speak truth to power," but it comes off, time after time and across many years and settings as the rantings of an angry and isolated soul.

Her name was on a lot of ballots in November of 2008. Almost no one voted for her.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #146
200. I am very hesitant to criticize people for "losing"
Edited on Fri Jul-10-09 04:27 PM by Time for change
I've said this before, and I'll say it again: George McGovern did a much greater service for his country and humanity by protesting the Vietnam War and therefore shortening it than Nixon did in some 6 years as President of the United States. Could McGovern have chosen a better political strategy? Could he have stood a chance of winning the 1972 election if he had gone along with the flow? In retrospect we know that he ran a losing campaign. I don't know that it was winnable, given the forces arrayed against him. It may be that most heroic actions in the end serve little purpose, in that they are unsuccessful. But if only a minute fraction of heroic actions are successful, then perhaps that is the way that society advances.

Nobody, and certainly not Cynthia McKinney, has all the answers. But in speaking truth to power, though she herself does not win, she sets an example and makes it easier for the next person to do the same. At some point a tipping point is reached, and then we get real change. But without individual heroic actions we will never get there. At least, that's the way I look at it.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #200
204. Agree that there is nobility in running on principles, even against
impossible odds, as McKinney, if she is truthful, will readily concede was the case.

But your comparison with Senator McGovern is a misfire. In a wounding, losing campaign he still won dramatically more votes than McKinney won in her effort. The episodes are only remotely connected and they are not, IMO, comparable.

McKinney won the nomination of the U.S. Green Party, which is nowhere near as potent an organization as the Greens of many European nations. It is a spectacularly tiny consituency. For several reasons, McKinney could not even achieve 50-state ballot access, nevermind electoral critical mass.

When a candidate cannot provide a rationale or mechanism for his or her election, he or she may be said to be eclipsed. That is certainly the case with McKinney's Green Party quest. She was not effective, she was not communicative, she had no logistical mechanism for influence -- nevermind victory -- and she won only 160 thousand some votes coast to coast.

That is a pathetic showing by any measure.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 04:58 AM
Response to Original message
148. Auto K&R
Another excellent piece.

Peace.


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snake in the grass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 05:06 AM
Response to Original message
151. An excellent and...
...thought-provoking post.

Thank you for a good read.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 05:14 AM
Response to Original message
153. Why was this pulled from the Greatest page?
I strongly disagree with the OP. I think the defense of Mckinney doing interviews with a hate site is disgusting. I think the defense of that site as being anti-zionism and not anti-semitic is a sick thing, but this OP has the recs and should be on the greatest page in all its "glory".
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 06:45 AM
Response to Reply #153
159. good question
at least we agree on that

:hi:
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EOTE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #153
178. I'd like to know this too.
It seems that sometimes there are rather arbitrary reasons for pulling certain posts.
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ensho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
169. thank you
nt
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
172. I do like Cynthia McKinney for many things, but I do have questions at times on this subject...

If you look at this past post of mine:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

and read the article it refers to (but whose links have changed since that thread was published):

http://www.blackagendareport.com/?q=node/10535

I think perhaps it might be too much to conclude she's anti-semitic from this post, but it does show at least some degree of lack of judgement or lack of understanding of what the real issues around AIPAC are at times.

She talks about Sibel Edmonds' concerns of AIPAC and nowhere does she mention in this speech the ATC (American Turkish Council), which Sibel has equal concerns about as she does with AIPAC, and Sibel insightfully has pointed out that there are many from our military industrial complex (like Brent Scowcroft) who have leadership positions in both of these PACs and that likely a big motivation for the concerns that Sibel had weren't anything to do with religion, but more to do with our military industrial complex and certain elements in both fo these governments to perpetuate the military aid gravy train that is directed to these countries.

She does a disservice to us (and opens herself up to attacks) by mischaracterizing an issue like this as a religious issue, where the real issues aren't there but elsewhere. Now whether that's due to her not really understanding these issues the way folks like Sibel does, or whether she's trying to manipulate this story to serving some ways of framing AIPAC as an anti-muslim organization, which MIGHT be due to some anti-semitic feelings on her part its hard to tell. But either way, I have a problem with it. A person of her stature should be able to present to us the true meaning of the Sibel Edmonds' scandals and not try to tweak it in different ways.

I am by no means an apologist for AIPAC and have attacked them many times. But I think it is an oversimplification to just characterize that organization as being anti-Muslim, when I think there are many other just as bad agendas they have that have nothing to do with attitudes about religion, etc.
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
175. thank you time for change
i agree with you 1000%. i looked at the thread the other day and felt so sad to see how many people were prepared to vilify Cynthia McKinney.

i am so glad you took the time to elucidate all my feelings and beliefs about this issue so succinctly and reasonably. thank you.

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
181. Cynthia is a truth-teller.
A Buddhist priest once said to me, "Oooh, Karenina, I worry much about you. You are sooo DIRECT. People cannot hear the truth from one such as you."
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #181
183. that's it
:hi:
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #181
201. OMG, you sound like Cynthia McKinney!
I worry much about you Karenina. ;)
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #201
202. BWHAHAHAHAHAHA!
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
184. kicking an outstanding post
:kick:
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
189. great post
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
193. "McKinney helped expose the horrific conditions of Katrina evacuees"
By claiming the Red Cross had verified that the military had shot 5,000 of them and covered it up?
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #193
195. Read her report
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #195
196. Do you deny that she made that claim? nt
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
199. Among the third-party candidates running in 2008, McKinney finished
Edited on Fri Jul-10-09 03:56 PM by saltpoint
dead last:

- - -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential...

According to required campaign filings as reported by the Federal Election Commission (FEC), a total of 148 candidates for all parties raised a collective total of $1,644,712,232 and spent $1,601,104,696 for the primary and general campaigns combined through November 24, 2008.

....

Ballot access:

Presidential ticket /Party /Ballot access /Votes

Obama / Biden /Democratic /50+DC /69,456,897

McCain / Palin /Republican /50+DC /59,934,814

Nader / Gonzalez/ Independent /45+DC /736,804

Barr / Root /Libertarian /45 / 524,524

Baldwin / Castle /Constitution /37 /196,461

McKinney / Clemente /Green /32 /161,195

Others - total /(------) /226,908


--Excludes spending by independent expenditure concerns.
--Source: Federal Election Commission

- - -

Part of being an effective leader is knowing how to put yourself in a position to become one.

McKinney's vote total (161,680) does not suggest that she was, or ever will be, anywhere near that position.


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