Canine cooking. (Not Chinese recipes)

[Dr.Phool]

Posted for people who want to keep their pets well fed and safe. I think I'm about done with commercial dog food myself.

From this mornings St. Pete Times.



Why I cook for my dogs

Long before the recent pet food scare, I had my own reasons to become a canine chef.

By PATTY RYAN
Published April 8, 2007


The metal bowls clink to a stop, one at the refrigerator, the other at a baseboard.

No man ever does this.

Only dogs will lick a bowl across a kitchen in gratitude.

Tonight, my two golden retrievers finish wild Alaskan salmon, brushed with olive oil and garlic. My leftovers.

They have already eaten two full meals of their own: a breakfast of oatmeal, plain yogurt and freshly ground peanut butter; a supper of poached chicken breast, cooked vegetables and more oatmeal, drizzled with flaxseed oil for omega-3 fatty acids.

The salmon is extra fortification as Reggie nears a milestone: He has been free of convulsions for 103 days. His record.

In my house, there is no such thing as dog food anymore.

There is only food.

* * *

(snip) more

http://www.sptimes.com/2007/04/08/Opinion/Why_I_cook_for_my_dog.shtml

[disndat]

1. When will they get to the bottom of this?

The first reports blamed rat poison, then quickly changed it to a plastic substance (melamine?) from China. Only suspected, not proof positive. Serve them right! Now they have to recall every pet product from the market containing that ingredient, hundreds of thousands of cans of moist food, and now dry food. The latest finding is salmonella in one of the brands. A costly lack of oversight to which we can blame the Bush administration's policy of hands-off food and drug safety.

[formercia]

2. 50 ways to Wok your dog. n/t

[jakem]

3. I know the title i going for funny, but once again a bit Chinese bashing, no? nt

[Dr.Phool]

4. Everybody hide! The Thought Police have arrived.

You can't even crack a joke around this place anymore.

[jakem]

5. oh, dont have a hissy.

It is just a recurring theme I am noting lately. Most recently with the sofa thread. oh, and the melamine.

[MADem]

8. Well, the thought police don't have a thought to stand on.

It's stupid in the extreme to "not mention" something when it is true, out of fear of somehow "offending"--that's denial of reality. In China, dogs are on the menu. In Saudi Arabia, women are treated like shit. In America, we have a nitwit President. Some truths are just self-evident.

It is true that the Chinese eat dog, they farm dog as a food source, and more would eat it if they could afford it. The Koreans, Indonesians, Filipinos, Nigerians and others indulge as well.

I personally find the practice odious. But then, we have dogs in the family. I wouldn't think of eating Aunt Martha either...

[MADem]

7. It's only bashing when the claim is false. It's on the menu, that's a fact.

China
Dog meat has been a source of food in China from at least the time of Confucius, and possibly even before. Ancient writings from the Zhou Dynasty referred to the 'three beasts' (which were bred for food), including pig, goat, and dog. Mencius, the philosopher, recommended dog as the tastiest of all meats.

In the past in China, during a hard season when the food store was depleted, dogs were occasionally slaughtered as an emergency food supply. Today it is consumed for its perceived medicinal value of increasing the positive energy of one's body (the 'yang'), and helping to regulate blood circulation. Due to this belief, people eat dog meat in the winter to help to keep them warm.<6><7>

A common breed grown for meat is a cross between a local Chinese dog and a St. Bernard, which produces many litters of fast growing animals each year....The average Chinese does not usually consume dog meat as it is relatively expensive compared to other meat choices and hence generally more accessible to affluent Chinese. There is also an increasingly westernised view of dogs as pets. More concentrated dog meat consumption areas in China are in the northeast, south and southwestern areas.<9> Peixian County in Northern Jiangsu is well-known in China for the production of a dog-meat stew flavoured with soft-shelled turtle. The dish is said to have been invented by Fan Kuai and to have been a favourite with Liu Bang, founder of the Han dynasty. 300,000 dogs are killed in the county each year, much of the meat being processed into stew for export across China and Korea.

Dog eating is considered perfectly acceptable behavior in China, but can usually only be afforded by the wealthy.<10>

The Chinese normally cook the dog meat by stewing it with thick gravy or by roasting it. One method of preparing the dog carcass is by immersion in boiling water, allowing the skin to be peeled off in one pull.

In Hong Kong, a local ordinance was enacted during 1950s which prohibits the slaughter of any dog or cat for use as food, whether for mankind or otherwise, on pain of fine and imprisonment.<11><12> Four local men were sentenced to 30 days imprisonment in December 2006 for having slaughtered two dogs.<13> In an earlier case, in February of 1998, a Hong Kong man was sentenced to one month imprisonment and a fine of two thousand HK dollars for having been hunting street dogs for food.<14>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_meat

That said, they're not alone. Plenty of other nationalities indulge in the practice as well.

[jakem]

9. Hype.

The average Chinese person eats no more dog that you do.

And probably less possum, racoon, bull testicle and squirrel than the 'average' American.

[MADem]

14. Did I suggest it was as common as chicken? No, I did not. In fact,

the cite noted that it was more expensive than other meats in China. But it isn't "hype" at all. Read the full citation.

[DarkTirade]

11. When my brother was in Vietnam he noted

that only the christians there ate dog meat, the buddhists didn't. :)

[MADem]

15. Well, when I am out in the boondocks in the PI or Korea, I go vegetarian.

It's just easier.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

47. Well, doh. Buddhists are vegetarian.

They probably regard eating chicken and eating dog as equal. Equal in being wrong, but equal nonetheless.

Edit: I realize you're not being too serious either. :hi:

[Matariki]

53. Perhaps your brother wasn't paying very close attention.

Maybe the Buddhist priests, but people eat meat there and the majority of the population aren't Christian. Dog is on the menu of expensive restaurants. I know many people who've been there, including Vietnamese visiting family there and that's what they tell me.

[DarkTirade]

55. I'm sure that's more of a general statement

but since he only noticed it because his vietnamese wife pointed it out to him, I'd say it's from a fairly accurate source.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[madokie]

6. for the most part me and Roxy eat the same things

We do keep her a bowl of dry dog food in case she gets hungry and I do throw away more of it than she eats so as to keep it fresher. Our pet is treated as another one of our family, only getting the best nothing less.

anyways

[jgraz]

10. I adopted a 13-yr-old poodle and put her on a raw food diet. Now she acts like a puppy.

This dog had joint pain, cataracts and skin lesions. She was constanly shivering when she was awake -- which was about 2 hours a day -- and she had terrible digestive problems (don't ask).

After about a month on human-grade raw food, she's running around the house, her skin's cleared up and she's finally having normal poo. She's still blind as a bat, but now she's was actually able to jump into my arms from the floor -- no small feat for a 5 pound toy poodle.

[Holly_Hobby]

18. I'm so happy for your dog

I too put an old dog on raw and he's doing much better. We had already dug the hole in the garden for him.

Any human grade fresh food is better for animals than the processed stuff, which is sprayed with synthetic vitamins and loaded with grains.

Fish and fish oils are great for eyesight. Just don't feed fresh salmon without freezing it for a month first or cooking it - bad parasites.

[jgraz]

45. Yep, she gets fish oil supplements

Though I think it's probably too late for her eyesight. At least her nose still works.

[Cleita]

12. I can't wok my dog?

Sorry, bad joke, I couldn't resist it.

When I was a kid, my parents cooked for our pets because there really wasn't any decent pet food available back then. I'm probably going to start cooking for my kitty although the pet food I have been giving him wasn't ones of the recalled brands.

[Bluebear]

13. :throwing tomatoes:

:rofl:

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MADem]

19. It's not JUST Asians who eat dogs, but they ARE the biggest population subset that does

It isn't bigoted if it is true. It isn't racist if it is a cultural aspect of a race.

Not all Americans like baseball and NASCAR, either, but those are cultural identifiers of this nation.

Look, the population of many nations around the world eat an "unacceptable" animal. That animal is the COW, which is sacred to many in India. Asians DO eat dogs. I posted a cite upthread about the many nations where Rover is on the menu.

Now, go ahead and bellow at me, but I lived across the street from Koreans who cooked and ate a poor dog they kept chained up and overfed, and who got in trouble for it because the neighbor called the cops on them. They went to court on a cruelty charge and paid a fine.

I've seen dogs for sale in Korean markets, and not as pets, either. It IS a practice that is common in Asian countries. It was an issue with the Olympics in Korea, it will be an issue when the Olympics go to China.

In fact, the Phillipines has a proposal to lift the dogmeat ban--using a CULTURAL justification--in the works: http://archive.gulfnews.com/articles/07/03/26/10113613.html

Restaurateurs want dog meat ban lifted
By Gilbert Felongco, Correspondent

Manila: A northern Philippines group is seeking amendments to the country's animal protection laws to allow the slaughter of dogs for food.

The United Preservation of Indigenous Culture and Cuisine (UPICC), a group of restaurant operators serving dog meat in La Trinidad and Baguio City, has urged Edgardo Angara, a senator instrumental in drafting the anti-slaughter law, to incorporate amendments to the Animal Welfare Act, a report by ABS-CBN News said.

The Animal Welfare Act outlaws the slaughter of dogs except for purposes of observing traditional sacrificial rituals, but UPICC asked Angara to make the law more accommodating by taking into consideration the fact that dog meat is a staple on the diet of people in Cordillera and several other parts of the country...."There is discrimination. Why does the law prohibit a person from eating his favourite food? If people in other countries do not eat dog meat, that is their customs and traditions," the UPICC submission to Angara stated, the report said.

....Eating of dog meat is prevalent in Northern Philippines‚ highland areas where people believe that eating dog meat generates body warmth keeping them protected from the cold weather.

Every month, dozens of dogs destined for clandestine slaughter houses in Baguio and La Trinidad, are intercepted by authorities enforcing the ban on canine meat....Aside from highland areas, dog meat is generally a popular accompaniment to intoxicating drinks.

[Tyo]

30. It's pretty much always open season on Asians around here

Guess we are supposed to feel honored that we provide so much entertainment for so many.
Now if you'll excuse me I have to go out and find a puppy for the lunch time stir fry.

[Matamoros]

38. ROFL

You are too much.

I've got to go steal some hubcaps (I'm Mexican... we carry knives...). Talk to you later.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MADem]

20. You don't know much about Asian culture, apparently.

Saying that Asians don't eat dogs is like saying Americans don't like NASCAR.

Sure, lots of Asians don't eat dogs, and lots of Americans don't like NASCAR. But generally speaking, you're gonna find dog eaters in Asian countries, and you are gonna find NASCAR fans in the USA.

[Matamoros]

23. I know more about China than you for sure

My partner is Chinese and I speak Chinese. I simply resent the Chinese and Mexican bashing that goes on here.
These comments were not meant to be illuminating, but were meant to be hurtful and insulting. Some bigots might even think they are "funny".
Why don't you just add a picture of a buck-toothed Chinaman to your post to complete the insult. Perhaps you can even find a doctor somewhere to claim that that too has some sort of scientific or sociological justification.

[npincus]

27. I'm sorta with you

even though I don't go for excessive political correctness. My husband is Japanese, we have a daughter, It seems to be OK to poke fun at Asian culture (accents, buck-teeth) moreso than any other race or culture. I don't think the OP meant to hurt, but there is a tendency in American culture to paint Asian societies with a broad brush, dog-eating an example, which can be hurtful.

[MADem]

32. Who said ANYTHING about buck teeth here, EXCEPT the guy who's pissed off

about the simple fact that it is common in many Asian cultures that dogmeat is consumed?

Who BROUGHT UP that hurtful 'bucktooth' reference?

That's a bit of a stretch.

[npincus]

36. the 'bucktooth' reference was not citing the OP

but an example of how Americans tolerate Asian stereotypes moreso than other races. That's been validated many times from what I've observed, and my marriage to a Japanese has sensitized me more to that. A famous example: Mickey Rooney's performance in the American classic "Breakfast at Tiffany's"; watching that for Asians must be akin to how a black person would feel watching a minstrel show. Ha ha, look at the buck-toothed Mr. Yunioshi.


http://www.brightlightsfilm.com/18/18_yellow.html



The second tradition, and the one that got far more press, was the time-honored practice of white actors performing in "yellowface." Many Asian Americans were angry at Pryce's yellowface performance largely because it was not an isolated, one-time casting decision, but represented a return to an earlier time when yellowface was the rule rather than the exception. During much of the so-called Golden Age of Hollywood, scores of actors, big-name actors, had no moral qualms about taking roles that required them to "slant" their eyes, do that funny walk, and practice their embarrassingly poor "Oriental" accents. Although most actors did the yellowface thing as a one-shot deal, a handful, like "Charlie Chan" actor Warner Oland and Siamese king Yul Brynner, actually spent much of their careers unashamedly accepting such roles.

The list of actors appearing in yellowface is disturbingly long: Katharine Hepburn; Fred Astaire; Myrna Loy; Ricardo Montalban; Ingrid Bergman; John Wayne as Genghis Khan; Marlon Brando as a comical Okinawan; Mickey Rooney, complete with "slanted eyes," thick glasses, and buck teeth, doing the "Jap thing" in Breakfast at Tiffany's; Peter Sellers; Helen Hayes; Peter Lorre; Lon Chaney; Anthony Quinn; and that perennial, "probably still believes he's an Asian" David Carradine. And the list goes on.

But while the history of blackface has been well documented in American film criticism, with such classics as The Birth of a Nation and The Jazz Singer featuring whites pretending to be blacks, the history of yellowface has received much less critical attention, and considerably less public censure. Long after it became politically unacceptable for a white actor to appear in blackface (Ted Danson's ill-advised appearance at the Whoopi Goldberg roast notwithstanding), white actors and actresses continued to accept yellowface roles. In fact, while contemporary "how-to" books on makeup for theater and film no longer explain blackface techniques, many continue to describe the yellowface process in great detail. As recently as 1995, Penny Delamar's The Complete Make-up Artist had two listings under the category "Ethnic Appearances" — "Caucasian to oriental" and "Caucasian to Indian," complete with really sick before-and-after photos of a young blond woman made up to look like Fu Manchu.


Of course, yellowface didn't begin in Hollywood. Just as cinematic blackface had its roots in traveling minstrel shows, yellowface performances have been around in the U.S. for over 200 years. The first such production, Voltaire's Orphan in China, opened in 1767, and others soon followed. In these early productions, white actors, most of whom had never seen an Asian person, performed in yellowface for audiences who also had never seen a real, live Asian. As film and theatre professor James May noted, "The notion of Chineseness ... became familiar to the American spectator long before sightings of the actual Chinese."

[MADem]

37. But see, that is terrible and offensive, that Mickey Rooney 'performance'

So are many other stereotypical images in film and elsewhere. Why? Because they are both insulting and NOT TRUE.

But they are NOT the point here.

I get very tired of seeing someone who doesn't like the way a discussion is going, and to solve their problem, they toss a 'racist' or 'bigot' bomb. They bring in shit that has NOTHING to do with the subject to try to shut down the discussion, or worse, they make accusations as to the character of an individual participating in the debate--now, I realize that you didn't START that shit, you just got caught up in it. But it's wrong to do it. People just don't win an argument by tossing every single possible unrelated gripe up against the wall and hoping it will stick. And accusing people wholesale of racism or bigotry to "win" an argument is probably the cheapest shot going. No one is being 'mean' to Asians by pointing out that dog eating is a common practice in Asian nations, because it is truth.

I've provided citations here that discuss--in factual and precise language--the cultural proclivity of many Asian cultures towards consumption of dogmeat. The practice is a FACT.

I've been to Hong Kong, lived in Japan for four years, spent a goodly amount of time in Korea and the PI, and popped in and out of assorted Asian nations over a couple of decades. This isn't NEWS to me--I've seen the practice up close.

As some one else on this thread pointed out, if the topic were HORSE COOKING (Not French, or Italian, for that matter) we wouldn't be seeing the "Che cosa??? Madonna!!!" or "Sacre bleu!!!!!!" Offense Police out in force, demanding that their honor be restored and people STOP talking about a plain fact. Why? Because Europeans still do eat a lot of horsemeat.

It's the truth that's getting short shrift by the easily offended, and that's their problem, not mine. I won't tolerate being called names for pointing out the truth, though.

Quite honestly, I believe that the antidote to speech that people don't like is MORE speech...not an insistence that people stop talking, or accusations of racism or bigotry to try to shut down discussion.

[HamdenRice]

49. Wow, I had no idea that was Mickey Rooney

Last time I saw Breakfast at Tiffany's I distinctly remember the thought running through my mind, "where on earth could they get an 'uncle Tom' Asian American to play that role"????

Now I know: even in that backward era, they probably couldn't get anyone Asian to play such a demeaning Asian role.

[Tyo]

28. Right on n/t

[MADem]

31. I invite your attention to the cites I have provided in this thread.

You're in denial, if you claim that Asian people don't eat dog, don't like dog, don't believe that dog meat has medicinal properties, that dog meat eating is regarded in some Asian cultures as a male bonding opportunity, that dog meat is considered a desired delicacy by many, and that dog meat is seen as a 'warming' meat during cold months.

Those are FACTS.

For you to throw a "bucktoothed Chinaman" reference into your post as an "I'll bet that YOU do/think/feel" method of arguing is, well, fucking LAME. And it's a lie. An ugly lie, that you tossed because you didn't like hearing a few facts. I didn't say these things to be MEAN, I said them because they are TRUE.

Asians eat dog. They eat dog less frequently than other meats, but they eat plenty of it. Dog is a FARM ANIMAL, like chickens or turkeys or beef cattle, in many parts of Asia. That is a FACT. Restaurants that serve dog exclusively are popular in many Asian cultures. That is a FACT. Dogs are sold in the meat markets in Korea and elsewhere. That is a FACT.

Get real. When people tell the truth, they aren't being "bigots" or "racists." And take your racist images of 'bucktoothed Chinamen'--that YOU dreamed up out of your own little head (what's up with THAT??? Maybe you should see a doctor, yourself--someone who has studied in the Freudian school, perhaps) and shove them. Learn to have a civil discussion without calling people racists and tossing bigot bombs of your own.

[HamdenRice]

33. Now that's offensive

First of all, the OP and your posts seem to take a "they're all alike" approach, which doesn't fit the facts. Koreans are more known for eating dog meat than Chinese. Even the article you, yourself, cite, says that rural Chinese eat dogs during times of scarcity, and now some rich Chinese eat dog meat for medicinal purposes, but that it is rare.

Dog meat is a more popular dish in Korea. But Chinese and Koreans are completely different. It's like saying that the Irish traditionally eat pasta and the Italians traditionally eat mostly potatoes.

But to say that "Saying that Asians don't eat dogs is like saying Americans don't like NASCAR" is just silly, because the prevalence of dog eating among "Asians" is not comparable to the prevalence of NASCAR in the US and is just boosting an incorrect stereotype.

Then telling a poster who seems to be identifying himself as Asian that he doesn't know much about Asian culture -- well you are way over the top and, calling it as I see it, totally offensive.

[MADem]

40. What part of "They're all alike" do you get from that post, when I specifically point out that they

are NOT all alike? My post didn't "seem" to take that approach at all--it took the PRECISE opposite tack, in fact.

And in fact, I'd guess that more people in Asian nations like dog than Americans like NASCAR, actually, so that assertion isn't going anywhere. Do have a look at the cites below. They can't keep up with demand in Peixian and are expanding their farms; 10 percent of Koreans enjoy dog, it is a POPULAR dish in Vietnam, the Filipinos want to CHANGE the dog eating law on the basis of CULTURAL imperative ... those aren't isolated subsets.

And just because a person is of Asian ancestry doesn't mean they know everything about their history and culture--for you to assume that is 'interesting,' though, in and of itself. George Bush is of British ancestry, I doubt he could name the Kings and Queens from Elizabeth I forward. I know a boatload of Italian-Americans who can't speak Italian and couldn't find Puglia on a map of Italy, I know many Irish, and only a few who speak Gaelic. Just because your people come from a certain country doesn't magically imbue you with a history and culture knowledge base. When people don't seem to have their facts in order, it's APPROPRIATE to assume they don't know what they're talking about. That's not "offensive." That's calling it as one sees it.

When there is a preponderance of a culture (in this case, the ASIAN culture) that shares a proclivity (in this case, DOG EATING), that proclivity is associated with that culture. That is ALL I am saying. We're not all NASCAR fans, but NASCAR is American, and there are plenty of fans, although they aren't the majority of the nation. Around the world, though, NASCAR is associated with America, like it--or NOT.

If you find that fact offensive, you're way too tender for this world.

Go back and read those cites in full. And here are a few more for you:


From the "racist" and "bigoted" and oh, "offensive" TAIPEI TIMES
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/archives/2001/07/08/0000093207
RED MEAT: One man's best friend becomes another one's meal in ever-increasing numbers as dog farms are springing up around the country to keep up with demand

The people of Peixian love their dogs.

At seven each morning a crowd of local residents gathers under dusty roadside awnings on a street corner for their favorite breakfast: a bowl of steaming soy milk and a piece of pita-like flat bread wrapped around a rasher of dog.

"I eat breakfast here a couple times a month," Zhu Xinyong said recently as he chewed on a wad of oily reddish meat, pulled from the bone by hand.

Before pooch lovers revolt, or grow revolted, they should know that this has been going on here for about 2,000 years.

It started with Liu Bang, first emperor of the Han dynasty, who liked the taste of dog meat. Before becoming emperor he was an official here in Peixian, in today's Jiangsu Province, and frequented a local dog restaurant run by a man named Fan Kuai.....

Photos and discussion of a Chinese (not Korean) dog farm: http://www.aapn.org/peixian.html

A report from a 'bigoted, racist, offensive' Canadian about dog sales in Korea: http://www.cbc.ca/news/viewpoint/vp_cerralbo/20050425.html

...The story is that dogs are hung from the bars of their cages and when nearly dead are taken down to have their fur blowtorched off – none of which I've seen.

While I was taking pictures, a butcher came running toward me waving a blade about the size of my forearm yelling for me to stop and leave. Luckily, I spoke enough Korean to calm him down and then offered him a smoke to smooth things over....The brutality of dogs being slaughtered is a tale many times told, but recently, the age-old dispute over one of South Korea's traditional dishes has resurfaced after a government plan to impose strict regulations on the processing and selling of dog meat.

The measures would prohibit any brutal slaughter of dogs and also sets hygiene guidelines on the processing and sale...The new measures brought an immediate response from animal rights activists and people who oppose the practice. They say that the government's plan won't bring the trade under control but instead will officially legalize the centuries-old practice. ....Proponents of the age-old dish see it differently. They argue that dog food has many medicinal values such as beefing up men's virility and improving women's skin.

"Anyone can tell you that eating dog meat is very healthy," said Park Gye-dong while enjoying a bowl of boshin-tang with his friends, "The Chinese wrote about its healing powers 3,000 years ago in their medical texts, and even now doctors tell patients who are recuperating from operations to eat dog meat in order to recover quickly. I would eat it more often but it's a little expensive."







And here's a report from those 'offensive racist bigots' at the BBC about the Vietnamese dog trade:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/1735647.stm


...Dog is a popular dish in the country, where it is eaten for its protein and also for good luck. It is particularly popular in the urban areas of the north where increasing incomes have sparked a search for new and more exotic recipes.

At a busy restaurant in Hanoi, a woman weighs and chops up small puppies for her customers.

There are about seven dishes featuring dog meat, and they often include the head, feet and internal organs.

Dog meat has a strong smell and taste. It is heavily spiced and usually served with alcohol.....

The link to the Phillipine story I cited upthread: http://archive.gulfnews.com/articles/07/03/26/10113613.html

And here's a report from our own HAWAII: http://starbulletin.com/2005/02/14/editorial/editorials.html

...The Hawaiian Humane Society reported in August that it received complaints in Kalihi, Waianae and downtown Honolulu about sales of dog meat from a van and the killing of stolen dogs whose meat was eaten. Most people did not realize -- the idea never entered their minds -- that it is legal in Hawaii to kill and eat one's own dog if the death by itself is humane.

In countries where dogs are eaten, the humane killing of animals destined for the dinner table is not typically the case. Dogs reportedly are beaten with pipes, bats or hammers and then electrocuted in order to tenderize the meat.

The House Judiciary Committee has approved a proposal by Rep. Glenn Wakai that would make killing, distributing or purchasing a dog or cat for human consumption a felony punishable by up to five years in prison. Rep. Alex Sonson voted for the bill but expressed reservations, saying it "promotes the perpetuation of a stereotype that Filipinos and Koreans eat dog."

Actually, both South Korea and the Philippines have taken actions to combat the consumption of dog meat. The Philippines enacted a law six years go banning the dog meat trade, but the problem persists; police say they have saved more than 2,000 dogs in recent years. South Korea has banned the sale of dog meat, but its dog meat industry still is estimated to encompass 6,000 restaurants and 10 percent of the people.

And from our friends at SNOPES: http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/petition/bernard.htm
Claim: St. Bernard dogs are being raised for food in China.
Status: True.

[HamdenRice]

41. I'll try to make this simple

Your rambling, angry post is difficult to respond to because it seems to miss the point of my post. The point of my post is that the OP and your posts allege that dog eating is common in China. It isn't. It's a stereotype. Dog eating is more common in Korea, but your own posts states that about 10% of Koreans consume dog. That's hardly on the level of NASCAR in Korea, and certainly not common in China.

You own Wiki cite says:

In the past in China, during a hard season when the food store was depleted, dogs were occasionally slaughtered as an emergency food supply. Today it is consumed for its perceived medicinal value ...

The average Chinese does not usually consume dog meat as it is relatively expensive compared to other meat choices and hence generally more accessible to affluent Chinese.

<end quote>

Throwing in data about Korea, Vietnam and the Philippines is like trying to prove what Italians eat by talking about what Scandanavians, Finns and Irish eat.

I know this may be difficult to grasp, but Korea and China are different countries with different cultures, different languages and different cuisines.

Throwing in the fact that Vietnamese eat dogs is about as probative as to whether Chinese commonly eat dogs as, again, trying to show that Italians eat reindeer because Italians are Europeans and Icelanders are Europeans and Icelanders eat reindeer.

As for lecturing (or hectoring) an Asian American and an American married to an Asian about Asian culture, and assuming that they are as dumb about their culture as George Bush is about British culture, and that you are in a position to tell them ... well, I think your post stands for all DU to see and judge for themselves.

[MADem]

42. I beg your pardon? If anyone is rambling, and angry, it's you.

You're also shooting off your keyboard without bothering to read the full discussion. It's helpful to digest all the posts before you make assumptions about what people know. It also will help you get the benefit of the full scope of the discussion that has taken place up to this point.

I have some news for you. The subject started out with Chinese consumption of dogmeat, and then digressed to a discussion of ASIAN consumption of dogmeat. Read the FULL THREAD, why don't you. Start at the top, and read every post. Follow along, why don't you?

Then, perhaps, you will see, that oh my!! I actually DO know the difference between Asian cultures, your childish condescension aside. But hey, thanks for butting in without bothering to read the full thread--it adds so much to the discussion...not.

And way to go, making assumptions about who or what I am! Heckuvajob, there Brownie.


And on edit, I know there are millions of Chinese, but millions of dogs and cats get eaten every year in that country. So, even if the practice is relatively rare (and it is rare due to COST, not desire) there are plenty of Rovers and Fluffys on the dinner plates. And if there wasn't a goodly amount of dog eating going on, why hold demonstrations decrying the practice? You want China-centric citations, here, let me oblige you:

http://www.k9magazine.com/viewarticle.php?sid=15&aid=1212
http://sirius.2kat.net/fondue.html
http://www.animalsasia.org/index.php?module=3&lg=en

And here's a story about dogmeat being used as a BRIBE. Fascinating: http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2006-07/21/content_646808.htm

Flaming dog meat sets Chinese school afire
(Reuters)
Updated: 2006-07-21 18:16

A Chinese headmaster, who tried to buy off colleagues by cooking dog meat for them after secretly selling off trees around the school, ended up setting fire to classrooms when the meal burst into flames, a Chinese newspaper said on Friday.

Ten classrooms containing televisions, computers, printers and textbooks burnt down, leaving nearly 100 children unable to go to school, the Beijing Youth Daily said.

The headmaster, in the northeastern province of Heilongjiang, sold off a 1,000-tree arboretum surrounding the school on the sly, the newspaper said.

"In order to get the teachers not to tell anyone what he had done, on the afternoon of May 16, headmaster Meng got friends to obtain two dogs, which they proceeded to kill on the school grounds," the report said.

"He then told the teachers they would have dog meat to eat that afternoon," it added.

But the plan went awry when the dog being baked burst into flames and set fire to the school's main office and then the classrooms. ....

[HamdenRice]

43. Whatever

I think I've made my points (calmly and after reading the entire thread) and the DU community can judge who is angry and rambling and who isn't.

So, just to make clear the takeaway points of my posts:

Dog meat consumption is relatively rare in China; to assume that it is common is factually incorrect and conflates China and Korea;

the idea that Chinese commonly eat dog meat (and the related stereotype that they eat cats (not that you mentioned that one)) perpetuates a false stereotype of the Chinese;

that whether other Asian countries eat dog meat is not probative of whether the Chinese eat dog meat;

that asserting that dog meat consumption in other Asian countries is probative of dog meat consumption by the Chinese demonstrates a profound lack of understanding of the diversity of Asian nationalities, cultures, languages and cuisines -- a misunderstanding that most Americans would not make respecting, for example, European Italians, Icelanders and Irish;

and that generally, as a matter of common sense and cultural respect, one is better off trusting the word of an Asian American or an American married to an Asian on matters of Asian culture and cuisine over the word of an obviously prejudiced American.

[MADem]

44. Twenty million dogs. But hey, it's "rare" --according to you--so that makes it OK.

And they are the LARGEST consumers in the world of dogmeat--but hey, it's "rare" over there, right??? You've made your points, but your points aren't really true, are they?

http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2006/s1631531.htm


China is the world's greatest consumer of dog meat, eating as many as 20 million dogs a year.

Many die horrible deaths in live animal markets.

But in Beijing, Dog restaurateur Wang Qiming says business is good.
"There are many who eat dogs. Before, young people didn't, but now they do."

Dog meat is claimed to be a warming winter dish that's good for the circulation and sperm.
....Chef Zhang Jinxiong says business has never been better.

"Dog meat is a good dish. If everyone misses the opportunity to eat it, in the future they may regret it."

So this is China in 2006, the Year of the Dog: a nation at once embracing the canine as a pet, a way to make money, and as food.

And you want cats, too? I'll give ya cats: http://www.messybeast.com/eat-cats.htm

From the Chinese press, at the end of a story about a protest to shut down a cat meat restaurant: http://www.china.org.cn/english/environment/171876.htm

In many parts of China, especially the southern regions, people have the tradition of eating cat meat. Previous reports said that in Guangzhou alone the residents eat 10,000 cats every day during the winter.

And how's this--from JUST last MONTH!!! http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=445260&in_page_id=1811

Back in barbaric business - the caged cats of China
by TOM SCOTT and RICHARD JONES - More by this author »

Last updated at 22:02pm on 28th March 2007

Comments (38)

The haunting sound of animal wailing fills the air.

Dogs are crammed so tightly together into tiny metal cages they cannot even bark. Yards away the blood-spattered carcasses of others lie on the ground.

This is Three Birds' Market in Guangzhou, China, officially described as a poultry market.

But, as these exclusive pictures show, many traders on the 60-acre site are doing brisk business selling dogs and cats to restaurants for slaughter and human consumption. ....





Yeah...."whatever," indeed.

Note that I am not characterizing this practice in ANY way, beyond saying that I would not do it and I find it distasteful. You'd think I was, though, the way some people here are getting riled at my presentation of simple FACTS and trying to silence any discussion of this issue for fear of "offending" people who share a common ancestry with the people who consume in this food source.

Trying to shut people up by saying that their speech is "offensive" doesn't make the issue go away. It may make you feel better, but those dogs and cats will continue to be killed and eaten. And maybe the more people who DO talk about it, the more people will be aware of the issue and be able to make a judgment about it--is it strictly a cultural matter, or is it animal abuse?

[HamdenRice]

48. This is one of the silliest posts I've ever read on DU

You hopefully read my takeaway points. Now, bizarrely, you claim that I think it's "OK" to eat dogs. Did you notice my avatar? That's just a bullshit attempt at ad hominem attacks.

Once again, your own facts prove your silliness. China may eat more dogs than other countries, but China eats more of almost everything than any other country. China has, in case you are not aware, 1.2 BILLION people, the largest population in the world. 20 million dogs killed, if your facts are correct, divided by 1.2 BILLION would suggest something like 1% of Chinese eat dog meat. Hardly the "other white meat" of China. Do you have any idea how many chickens it takes for chicken to be a "common" American meal? It takes about 10 billion chickens for chicken to be a common meal for 300 million Americans. If eating dog was "common" in a population of 1.2 billion ... well, you do the math (hint: by the same ratio it would take many billions of dogs).

Despite your attempt to now change to subject to your heroic role as crusader against eating of cats and dogs, and protector of the caged and soon to be eaten dogs and cats of China, the point of this thread is not whether its "OK" to eat dogs; the point is your repeated, and repeatedly proven false statements, that dog eating is "common" in China -- as common as NASCAR is in the US as you put it.

The Asian American and the American married to the Asian also seem to think your notions are wrong.

On my many business trips to Beijing, Naning (Guangxi) and Chengdu (Sichuan), I've eaten and been offered some pretty strange things -- from moose nose to jelly fish -- wandering around the restaurant districts and markets, but I've never seen dogs or cats caged with other animals, and never saw it offered at a banquent or restaurant. Not that that proves anything because I'm sure they would not offer dog to an American. But as a formerly frequent visitor to China, and a Chinese history minor, both in college and graduate school, I won't hold myself up as an expert on all things Chinese, unlike some people.

The takeaway point once again is simply this: Dogmeat is not a common dish in China, and to say that it is, is to play into silly stereotypes.

[MADem]

50. I am aware of China's population. But it's ONLY twenty million dogs. So you think that is silly.

And so you have a dog avatar. Big deal. What does that mean? That you are a big dog? That you like dogs? That you like them with barbecue sauce? I don't know what it means, and I am not about to ASSUME anything--I don't do as much "inferring" as you do.

You want me to say that twenty million is rare simply because there are 1.2 billion consumers. Sorry. Twenty million is a LOT of dogs. That guy selling five hundred cats a month from a single stall (and expecting business to go up once people know he's in business) is selling a shitload of cats.

And, FWIW, I'm NOT crusading. I am imparting factual information. I limit my comments to my personal views on the matter. You're the one who is minimizing this, by trying to make this practice appear to be something that happens once in a blue moon, when a substantial number of animals are going on the plate every year.

I find it funny, though, that you keep putting shit on me, when what I am doing is simply providing citations and quotes.

And, I gotta love your math. They grow huge 200 pound Saint Bernards over there, like cows. They don't waste much of the old pooches, either--paws, tail, head--it's all good. A pound of dogmeat easily feeds five people. So go back to the drawing board, Einstein.

Song Shiyong, head of the Shenyang Dog Meat Research Institute said St Bernard were four times more profitable to breed than pigs or chickens. "This is a new way to prosperity,"

The Central Garrison Bureau, which is responsible for the wellbeing and security of President Jiang Zemin and other leaders, is a regular customer at a dog farm that specialises in the breeding of St Bernards for meat production. A spokesman for the Beijing Academy of Agricultural Science said: "The Central Garrison Bureau buys up to 30 St Bernards for the dining pleasure of the leaders."

The Swiss dogs, which have been imported for mass breeding, weigh up to 200lb each and their meat costs about £4 per pound, according to the academy. A 1lb St Bernard meat dish feeds about five people and is usually prepared with soy sauce or oyster sauce. The tail, the liver and the paws are often served separately.

http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/petition/bernard.htm

I never said it was a "common" dish. In fact, I've said the opposite upthread. But it's not 'hen's teeth' either, your efforts at minimization notwithstanding.

There is a MASSIVE and lucrative market for this "rare" delicacy, and with the increase in dog farms, the price will likely go down, making the dish more affordable to the people who want to eat it.

But go on, call it "silly" all you want. It doesn't change the facts of the matter. A lot of dog meat is eaten in China. Take that away....

[renie408]

22. When you think about it

It is only racially insensitive if you find something wrong with eating dogs. In many areas of the world they are a legitimate part of the diet. Same thing with eating horses. If the title had been "Horse Recipes (Not French Cooking)", I wonder if people would have gotten as cranked up??


PS. I have six dogs, run a horse farm, and know people of Asian descent and know a French guy. (OK, he is French/Canadian) and neither of those titles bother me.

[Matamoros]

26. This was posted to be funny, or laughed at mockingly

This was not posted as some sort of description of human behavior, but more in the spirit of immature finger pointing and snickering. Kind of like giggling at the kid with Tourette's in the lunch line. While it's true he/she does twitch funny, and some may find that hard to deal with socially, pointing a finger at it and laughing at it and mocking the behavior is unacceptable.

[renie408]

29. Point acknowledged.

The title didn't hit me one way or the other. I just sort of noticed it on my way to reading the information in the post. I recognized the reference, but not so much as a slur. I understand how someone with close ties to the Asian community might, though.

[MADem]

35. How you can compare a practice that is culturally accepted in the nations in question to TOURETTE's

is beyond me. One is a well-known, established, accepted cutural gastronomic practice in Asia that IS unusual in this country, and IS bothersome to some here, and the other is a difficult medical affliction that no one would wish on their worst enemy. And the former doesn't have to occur, while the latter is out of the hands of the sufferer.

And you're the one sobbing about 'intolerance?' Fascinating.

[MADem]

34. In India, they find the US/Canadian/British/Aussie hamburger eating practice barbaric

See, the thing is, you really DO think about it. As do many others of us.

However, it's way easier for the charter members of the "I'm OFFENDED!" Police Force to run around with one's hair on fire screaming "RACIST!!!!!!!!!! BIGOT!!!!!!!!!!!" when the thing being noted isn't either--it's TRUE. It's a 'cultural aspect' of Asian nations. It's fact. It isn't even a secret, and the people who engage in the farming, butchering, preparation and serving of dogmeat in the nations in question do not do it SHAMEFULLY, nor, for the most part, do they do it furtively.

FWIW, I lived just up the road from a horse butcher in Europe, some years back. I couldn't bring myself to eat the stuff--I can't eat Rover, and I can't eat My Friend Flika, either! What I found especially off-putting, as I never bothered to enter the business for an up-close look at the operation, was the charming neon sign with the smiling cartoon horse head on it!

[Matamoros]

39. So do I

Go vegan!

[renie408]

21. Thanks for posting this.

I have been researching a way to make food at home for my dogs, but everything I have been reading has been so damn EXPENSIVE. One site says it can only be a raw diet of meat and veggies, another says you have to cook everything. Another says dogs can't digest grains. Then another says that 30% of their diet should be grains. And don't EVEN try to figure out whether there is a safe level of garlic for a dog.

This sounds affordable and I am just going to quit looking and try this.

[Doremus]

25. The pet food industry has brainwashed us into believing only THEY can provide good nutrition.

Some people are actually afraid to feed their pets normal food. It's unhealthy! They'll get sick!

Horse puckey!

Cooking for our pets is natural, healthy and often less expensive than buying bags and cans of overpriced dumpster dregs.

Just like humans, they need certain nutrients in certain amounts. Once you know what those are, providing them in a wholesome, homecooked menu is a thousand times better for them than buying an unappetizing, unhealthy commercial concoction that stinks to high heaven.

If you wouldn't eat it, why give it to your pet?

Here's a recipe I've had good success with:

http://www.foundersvet.com/home_cooking.htm


Of course, if your pet has existing health issues you shouldn't switch without checking with your vet.

Bon Appetit!

[Tyo]

46. You posted what should have been some interesting info for pet owners

But for whatever reason you chose to include a totally gratuitous reference to the custom among some Chinese of eating dog meat. You did this not to inform the discussion but as a joke. And you seem to be annoyed that you got called on it. Screw the PC stuff, this is nothing more than a lack of sensitivity and manners. It's one of the reasons why I don't bother with DU much anymore.

[MADem]

51. Here, then, read what Chinese people have to say about the custom

http://www.cantonese.sheik.co.uk/phorum/read.php?12,66423

Some like it, some don't.

Why should people be "sensitive" to a fact? Why is it poor manners to say something that is completely true?

It is a fact that people eat twenty million dogs per annum, at least, in China. Some of these dogs weigh up to 200 pounds. A pound of meat can serve up to five people.

The PC police attitude is a bit absurd, frankly. You can't pretend it isn't happening, because it plainly is, and you shouldn't get angry because someone mentions it. The defensiveness is rather puzzling.

[Tyo]

52. Fine....

And this would relate to pet food how?

[MADem]

54. Ahh, so you want to regulate the use of double-entendres in subject lines on this forum

We'll have to create a new rule that everyone must stick precisely to the intended subject, and never stray, even when the phraseology is so obvious that it begs for comment?

And why would we do that? To avoid discussing the simple fact that twenty million dogs, at least, are eaten every year in China? And to avoid "offending" people who come from the same ancestry as those who do eat dog? If eating dog is indeed offensive, and a person does not engage in the practice, then why should that individual take personal offense? We're talking about a practice that takes place within a nation where it is LEGAL, where the state owns some of the dog farms, where the dish is considered a delicacy and supply, though increasing, cannot keep up with demand.

What, should we never mention Hitler's atrocities to people of German ancestry, for fear of "offending" them too? How about not talking about slavery to the descendants of slavers, because it might hurt their feelings?

The hypersensitivity just has to cease. People who live in China actually DO eat dogs--twenty million dogs a year, at least. That's a lot of dogs. Denying it, or refusing to discuss it, or trying to stifle discussion of it, because it "offends" people who share the same ethnicity but do not eat dogs is just absurd. And forcing oneself to avoid noting an obvious double-entendre out of that fear of offending people who have no reason to be offended is just 'PC on Steroids' and ridiculous. IMO.

[jakem]

56. You're right... and 'Belsen was a gas'

now don't get all oversensitive, you Jews and Germans...

[MADem]

57. Well, Belsen was a gas makes light of genocide. It's really not the same.

And I would suggest that the comment doesn't reflect AT ALL on Jews and Germans, it reflects on the one MAKING FUN OF GENOCIDE. That sort of comment goes right back to the one making the comment.

So it isn't the same at all.

People do eat animals. In this case, the people who live in the People's Republic of China (and other primarily Asian nations as well) are eating an animal we Americans happen to regard as a pet. Thus, the issue is a bit emotional for some, though not all, of our citizens.

How do you think, then, the discussion of Chinese nationals eating twenty million dogs per annum should take place? Should we call it canine consumption in an undisclosed large country to avoid ruffling Asian feathers? Should we just not mention it so their feelings aren't hurt?

There are a lot of people who find it distasteful. Others find it sickly amusing. Some have no problem with it at all. But it IS an issue.

But what--we are supposed to not discuss it ONLY because Asians are a minority in the USA, and their "minority feelings" might be offended? Funny, there's a divergence of opinion in CHINA, nowadays, on this very subject, and THEY aren't squeamish about talking about it. So why are we? Why should we be? That's being "Fake PC" and it reeks of hypocrisy.

I just don't get this tiptoeing about "ooooh, because it concerns ASIANS." It's asinine, IMO. And insulting to Asians, who do have a variety of opinions on this matter and don't march in lockstep on the practice.
Discussion forum here:
http://www.chinese-forums.com/showthread.php?t=6015

http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/dogs-life-in-china-is-eat-or-be-eaten/2006/02/03/1138958908252.html

Annie Mather, executive director of the Animals Asia Foundation in Hong Kong, said the rise in pet ownership had not reduced the practice of eating dog meat. "From our research, the dog-eating industry is large and growing across the country," Ms Mather said.

In several provinces, local governments are encouraging dog farming and since raising dogs for meat can offer three to four times the profit of poultry or pork, many farmers are taking up the idea.

In Peixian county, in Jiangsu province, enterprising farmers began importing bigger breeds such as St Bernards and Newfoundlands several years ago. Cross-breeding with local dogs produces a fast-growing, meaty dog with an allegedly superior taste that is ready for slaughter at four to six months. Breeders advertise openly and proudly on Chinese-language websites and claim growing domestic demand from restaurants and export to countries such as South Korea.

Beijing has more than 120 restaurants offering dog meat, which is traditionally prized in the cold winter months for its "warming" effects.

Andrew Butler, spokesman for animal rights group Peta in the Asia Pacific region, said the West sometimes saw China as an easy target because the Chinese had not, until recently, seen anything wrong with practices such as skinning dogs alive or slitting their throats without stunning them first.

"The cruelty isn't hidden here as it is in the West (in factory farms); you can see it more blatantly in the markets and because it's cats and dogs (Western) people are more shocked," Mr Butler said.

The other difference is that China has no animal protection legislation.....

[Name removed]

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[HamdenRice]

59. the Chinese chef, cleaver in hand, sneaking up behind a cat in the alley

Nailed it. 'Nuff said, even though Madem can't understand it.

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

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