Economy takes its toll on Amish

[Ian David]

By Will Higgins and Tim Evans, USA TODAY

SHIPSHEWANA, Ind. — Freeman Wingard is Amish, but he spent the last decade living quite differently than the popular characterization of the Amish as farmers, their plows hitched to enormous draft horses as they eschewed influences of the outside world.

Wingard took his family to restaurants every week, made trips to Chicago and vacationed in Florida. That was when, he says, he was earning $40 per hour working in a Northern Indiana recreational vehicle factory.

<snip>

The economy has taken some toll on most of the USA's 400 Amish settlements, experts say, but none has seen such a widespread impact as the country's third-largest Amish settlement in Northern Indiana.

"Nowhere in U.S. Amish history has a down economy affected the Amish so much," said Steven Nolt, a professor at Goshen College who has written about the Northern Indiana Amish. "It's a pivotal time for them."

More:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-06-29-amish-ec...

Fuck 'em.

How ye like ye Bush economy now, Goody Fuckwad?

[SammyWinstonJack]

1. K&R

[patrice]

2. Oh dear, I wonder how they could sell the land of which, I thought, they were The Stewards to

rape by recreational vehicles???????????

No judgement intended here, just a very real question.

Not to mention, politicizing churches.

[yellowcanine]

8. They did not "sell the land". There just isn't enough land to go around for all of them to farm

anymore. As it is, Amish are buying land where they can. Lebanon County, PA just north of Lancaster County, had hardly any Amish when I grew up there in the 1960's. Now there are lots of them. The same is true in far flung places like Kentucky, Missouri, Texas, etc. which had no Amish up until a few years ago. Even in Lancaster County PA where farmland is very expensive because of competition from developers the Amish buy up every farm they possibly can when it comes on the market - they will buy a 100 acre farm and make two 50 acre farms out of it.

[undeterred]

3. Yeah, they leave such a huge carbon footprint.

Lets ridicule and swear at them.

Most Amish do not even vote because they participate in the larger society as little as possible.

[BlooInBloo]

4. Thanks for pointing out how just how strongly against their own interests they vote.

[undeterred]

5. Most of them don't vote at all.

[kctim]

6. Do you have any idea what their own interests are?

Or are you just basing it on what you think is best for them? One of the most important things for the Amish is the least amount of govt intrusion into their lives so that they may live as they want and most of them do not see a difference between the two parties. That is why the cat above is correct when they say most don't even vote.

Of all the Amish I know, only one voted, and he voted for one reason and one reason only: to end the wars. He voted for Obama.

[ThomWV]

9. Lowering of real property taxes - as is appropriate for anyone who farms

[LynneSin]

13. I believe there are tax codes in play for Amish Farms

I know they pay some limited taxes but many of them have been discarded since Amish do not accept any kind of government assistance such as medicaid or social security.

[ThomWV]

21. Not here. An acre is an acre and the state gets every dime it can out of every one

But if you so much as mention taxing coal they will run you out of town on a rail.

[yellowcanine]

32. They pay the same real estate taxes as anyone else for the same kind of property in a

given area. Agricultural land is taxed at a lower rate whether one is Amish or not.

[saigon68]

14. Yes and the WARS are really ending quickly aren't they?

http://icasualties.org/

[kctim]

24. Not quick enough for me or him

But I believed, as he did, that ending them would be quicker under a President Obama.

[LynneSin]

35. The Amish don't support wars and won't fight in them

[superduperfarleft]

10. Or they're too busy sexually abusing their women and running puppy mills. n/t

[gauguin57]

16. You're right about that. So many think of the Amish as "quaint" ... but there's bad stuff.

They treat women and children badly (here in Lancaster County, PA, there's often a story about some poor Amish kid who was severely injured or killed doing farm work when they're too young!). They treat dogs like livestock -- and they treat that livestock badly. Please, God, don't let me come back as a horse on an Amish farm!

Puppy mills are a huge problem. They basically overbreed mother dogs to death (unless some rescue group comes in to take them away).

And Amish women HAVE TO cover themselves from head to toe. I see them out walking around in all that black in the hottest weather. And that rule comes from the same place it comes from in some Muslim cultures ... cover women up to subjugate them.

[Ian David]

25. To be fair, the men have dress codes as strict as the womens.'

But you are correct on all other counts.

[yellowcanine]

27. The Amish did not ask us to put them on a pedestal. Yes they have problems.

But no more so than the rest of the population - much less so I would argue. Most also allow some freedom for teenagers to decide whether they want to be Amish or not - that is what the "rumspringa" is all about. Yes you can argue they don't really have much of a choice being raised like that - but some do in fact choose to leave the Amish at that point with no sanction from either the church or their families.

[Ian David]

22. I took very little interest in them until they turned-out en-masse for Der Bushenfuhrer. n/t

[yellowcanine]

30. Actually they did not turn out en masse for Bush or anyone else.

Not at rallies nor to vote. The fact that some did made it a big news story because they are Amish and Amish usually make a point of staying out of national politics. That's all.

[cherish44]

7. It surprises me that Amish people would vote for greedy warmongers

But I guess fake Christians can fool people with an eight grade education pretty easily

[LynneSin]

12. THEY DON'T VOTE!!!!!

Ugh!

I live near Lancaster PA and they've found that perhaps, at most, about 10% of the Amish population may actually vote. BTW, they also don't serve in wars. Bush visited Amish country 3 times in 2004 and it was a joke. An article I read about one of the visits made, a few comments the report was able to get was that most Amish who appeared did so as respect for the office of President but all of them said that they dont vote.

BTW, they also don't pose for pictures, which makes me suspect that the OP posted pictures of Mennonites. Mennonites are related to the Amish but accept more mainstream activities like electricity and cars.

[yellowcanine]

15. It is a little more complicated than that. The Amish are more naturally Republicans because

they have a fierce notion of going it alone with as little assistance from government as possible. For example, they elect not to participate in Social Security on religious grounds - a stance which was upheld by SCOTUS and in an amendment which was part of the Medicare bill signed by President Johnson in 1965. The Amish reject all forms of insurance and they see Social Security as being a kind of insurance. They handle most of their medical needs, disaster recovery, etc as individuals with assistance from other Amish if necessary and will also accept charity freely given from outsiders - but the latter is more because they see that as allowing the charitable givers to benefit because they strongly believe that if is "more blessed to give than to receive" and they themselves are very quick to help out not only other Amish but also non Amish when disaster strikes. For example many Amish are active in Mennonite Disaster Service - which cleans up after hurricanes, floods, and tornados. Social Security, Medicare, etc. are associated with Democrats much more than Republicans so it is natural that the Amish would tend to be Republican. My maternal grandfather, who was Amish until he was 21, was very much opposed to FDR's New Deal - though I don't believe he ever registered to vote (which is still true of most Amish).

As for the war mongering part, the Amish, while themselves pacifists, believe that the government has the right to make war. This is likely why most of them would not have held that against Bush.

Yes, the Amish have only an eighth grade education, but that does not mean they are ignorant. Most of the Amish are avid readers. But they prefer to read Amish produced newspapers to avoid the influence of the outside world - particularly the pictures. They interpret the commandment of "no graven images" to mean no pictures of people - particularly their faces. When they do read a regular newspaper, it is most likely to be a small town local paper - which is what is available where most of them live. And of course small town local papers in rural America are mostly staunchly Republican, particularly in the parts of Pennsylvania, Ohio and Indiana where most Amish live. So it is hardly surprising that most Amish would come down on the side of Republicans most of the time.

[LynneSin]

11. You know, that's total bullshit - since clearly you know CRAP about them

do you know that perhaps 10% of the total Amish population actually votes in elections. I don't know much about the Amish from Indiana, I find it odd that one would have a job working in a plant that builds RV facilities or would take lavish vacations. Mind you, I grew up near the LARGEST Amish settlement in Lancaster, PA. Most of them do their best to avoid the public, they don't vote, don't join wars and avoid mainstream America as much as possible. For those with jobs outside of their farms, it's usually to promote Amish made traders.

I can't find an article but it came out around the election time in 2004 when Bush made THREE visits to Amish country. The article pointed out that most Amish will not vote, it's against their faith to get involved with the politics of mainstream America. The Amish were never in support of the war nor were they of any previous ones - plus they don't serve. True Amish wouldn't get involved with anything military. One working in an RV plant is strange since real Amish do not use vehicles or even use electricity.

But yeah, like every group of people you'll find a few who go outside the norm. The article I read said that the few Amish that went to the Bush rallies went because Bush was the president but didn't really think much of voting for him - see the Amish are also a peaceful, respectful crowd too.

What's worse - those people in your pictures are posing for photographs. True Amish don't do that either. There was a big hissyfit about the media trying to get pictures at the Amish school where the school shooting was. None of them wanted to pose for pictures because that is against their religion. I would suspect the pictures you found, especially the one with the people waving to the cameras, are not Amish but probably Mennonites.

However, I can see the economy impacting the Amish since many of them do market their wares to mainstream public. I have a couple of furniture pieces made by Lancaster Amish - those guys know how to work wood.

[yellowcanine]

17. Actually a lot of Amish do work in RV factories in Elkhart and LaGrange Counties in Indiana.

They have little 5-10 acre farms - enough to pasture a couple of horses - and they make their main living in the "trailer" factories as well as other nonfarm occupations such as carpentry, cabinet making, etc. They also take vacations. They love to vacation at lakes and go fishing. I know all this because my father in law used to transport Amish in Indiana. I was once riding with him and actually saw a buggy towing a motor boat. Blew my mind and I did not have a camera! My father in law had a big trailer he would tow behind the van and he often took Amish families to vacation spots on a lake or to Walmart to buy all kinds of junk - they were big on back yard trampolines for some reason. He is a very frugal person and he used to get really annoyed at their apparent materialism. I was also more familiar with Lancaster County Amish in the 1950's and 1960's growing up in Pennsylvania and it was something of a surprise to me at how different the Amish in Indiana are today from what I was familiar with. I don't know about the pictures but I do know that many Indiana Amish have cell phones - which one would also think would be a big no-no.

On edit: I looked at the pictures again - for what it's worth in my opinion those are Amish, not Mennonites. Particularly the head coverings in the second picture appear very Amish to me. They may not have been posing for a picture - they may have been waving at the motorcade and a news photographer snapped the pic - it happens all the time.

[Ian David]

26. It looks like you and yellowcanine are the most informed people in this thread...

... but the two of you have reached opposite conclusions.

I think I would like to sit on the sidelines and see which one of you wins an argument on this, and then make up my own mind from there.

[ieoeja]

31. Lynne is right about the voting part.

They seldom do though they have been known to make exceptions. A couple decades back they voted en masse in Daviess County, IN, taking down some Rightist whackjob who made the mistake of fucking them over because they typically do not vote. I don't recall the details.

They are both natural Republicans in that they are uber Conservative, and natural Democrats in that they are a despised minority.

Given that the Protestant Religious Right toned down their attacks on Roman Catholics a couple decades ago, I'd imagine they did so against the Amish as well. So the Amish, like many Catholics, may have begun to forget how much they are hated by American Rightists and started voting Republican when they vote. But I really don't know. I haven't worked on an Amish farm in over 20 years.

[LynneSin]

33. I can't speak about the Amish in other areas

It's like saying that Americans are exactly alike across the country because we all happen to be Americans.

If anything it's valid about the Amish being both conservative and liberal. They are probably the only anti-abortion folks out there that also are deadset against the death penalty and the war. You may not like their anti-abortion stance but at least they are consistant.

[CountAllVotes]

18. what is the matter Amish?

no great customers for your puppy mill puppies and dogs these days? Economy got you DOWN?

[yellowcanine]

20. I think that is extremely unfair. Most Amish do not have puppy mills and anyway there

would be no Amish puppy mills if non-Amish would not be buying the puppies. Amish certainly are not buying them. Anyway the economic recession in Elkhart County Indiana is not because of puppy mills.

[CountAllVotes]

23. there would be NO Amish puppy mills IF

their dog auctions were shut down and made illegal. I'm not fooled by these people. They are making a sh*tload off of their disgusting evil way of making money.

Maybe this is not the only way they make a few bucks. I wonder how many lost $ via Madoff?

[Ian David]

28. Just because The Amish kinds LOOK like Orthodox Jews doesn't mean Madoff preyed upon them. n/t

[yellowcanine]

29. Yeah, sounds as if you really know a lot about the Amish so you must be correct.

Stereotype much?

[CountAllVotes]

36. yeah here is your "stereotype"

www.amish.cc

A real winner we have. Note condition of this poor litte Yorkie!

[LynneSin]

39. I'm a bit confused about your link

The people who run the business clearly aren't Amish, which btw if they were they wouldn't own a website since they wouldn't have a computer because well, computers need electricity. These people just happen to live in Amish country. BTW, I grew up in Amish country - does that make me Amish?

[yellowcanine]

40. Exactly. But because it says "Amish" this is just one more example of an "Amish Puppy Mill"

But we wouldn't want a little thing like the actual facts to get in the way of our cherished stereotypes, now would we?

I know the Amish have problems in their communities. But they are neither as bad as some people would make them out to be nor as good as how others would romanticize them to be. On the whole though, I would rather have an Amish family as neighbors than a yahoo driving a Hummer or a family housing 5 pleasure horses on their 2 acres of overgrazed dirt and weeds.

[LynneSin]

41. +1 on that one

Amish gets thrown around Lancaster county like you wouldn't believe. When I wanted to buy an Amish cedar chest I actually found a farm that sold them as oppose to going to one of the 10 gazillion stores in Lancaster that have the world "Amish" slapped on it (and ironically made by the Chinese Amish I guess).

[yellowcanine]

43. My favorite are the "free" Amish heaters. Of more accurately a free heater that comes with an

"Amish made" mantle that you have to pay big bucks for + shipping. Amish "working their fingers to the bone" filling all of the orders. It is enough to make one puke.

[Ron Green]

19. I have to send this to the Greatest Page just for the pictures and caption.

[LynneSin]

34. The pictures of what, a few Amish-like people near a Bush Cheney sign?

And those that posing - probably aren't Amish but a related sect like the Mennonites since Amish and especially Lancaster Amish do NOT pose for pictures (which the picture is from Lancaster).

You have a group of people that historically vote around 10% and the fact that the amish do show respect for leaders, even if it's Bush Cheney and what you have is a JOKE being sent to the homepage.

That's like saying you're a Bush/Cheney supporter simply because someone like you in either race or religion also happen to support Bush.

[Ron Green]

37. I like jokes.

The caption and pictures are funny.

[LynneSin]

38. But it misleads the people reading the post as to who the Amish are

and what they stand for.

[RavensChick]

42. Well, so much for me getting fresh veggies

and Shoo Fly pies from them anytime soon.

[demodonkey]

44. Amish in PA were used by GOP - told to register and GOP vote Bush or the Democrats would...

...QUOTE "steal their guns and kill their children." (Note that Amish are generally non-political and use guns very little.) This was only one part of the Republican plans to manipulate certain minorities in 2004. Disenfranchising blacks and students was another.

I dug this up while researching after the 2004 election. It was part of my speech at the 2005 "Gathering to Save Our Democracy" conference in Nashville, that is chronicled in the film 'UNCOUNTED'. (My information about the Amish is not in the film, but you should see it for yourself.)

We ignore the ongoing problems with our elections AT OUR PERIL. Our elections are NOT OK because Obama won.

[Ian David]

45. Hopefully PRESIDENT Obama will start addressing these things before 2010. n/t