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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-25-09 11:27 AM
Original message
Owasco Reincarnated


In the mid-1980s, I lived and worked in Delaware County in upstate New York. My office was one of a number of "human service agencies" that were located outside of a tiny hamlet, about ten miles from the county seat, due to space issues. In the summer months, when we would have our lunches on a few picnic tables that faced the upper Delaware River, a few of us used to discuss the local archaeological history. Over a couple of summers, I would point out a mountain on the other side of the river, and say that I thought there would be a settlement there, in part because of the extensive view the mountaintop afforded. Finally, three of us decided to see if we could get the land-owner’s permission to look around.

To find the spot, we had to take a curious route, first off of a county highway, then off a town road, and follow an isolated dirt road to its end. When we introduced ourselves to the elderly farmer who owned the land, he recognized my last name. By chance, a close relative of his had been one of the victims of a terrible double murder a few years before, and my uncle had solved the case within 36 hours, tracing the three murders half way across the country. Based upon his respect for my uncle, he said that he could actually show us the site we were looking for – because in the summer of 1963, while bulldozing some brush up on the mountain, he had uncovered it. He also showed us the extensive collection that his family had: hundreds of Levanna arrowheads, drills, scrapers, pottery shards, two clay trumpet pipes, and a stone tube pipe (which he always carried with him).



For two summers, we did some excavating one the site. I brought a friend from a local university, and he had his students do a floatation test on a few samples from a fire pit. These tests confirmed what we already suspected: that the people living at the site consumed white-tail deer and turkey, among other things. Also, based upon the artifacts collected from the site (including the owners’ and what we found), there were very few that could be associated with cultivation. Thus, it appeared that the site was a seasonally occupied camp, where a primary focus was on the production of projectile points and, because of the high number of scrapers, on making the shafts for the arrowheads. The site, which had been visited by NYS Archaeologist William Ritchie briefly in 1965, was considered to fit into the Owasco cultural tradition (Ritchie included three phases in this tradition: Carpenter Brook, Canandaigua, and Castle Creek, in that order).

Late Monday morning, my younger son stopped by to see me. As he and his brother are working on a book about my studies of the archaeological, historical and oral history of Native Americans in our region – no small topic – he said that should visit one of the sites they were writing about. My daughters asked if it would be possible to go to a site where they could do some excavating. I called the phone number of the old farmer, not knowing if it was still in service. His wife answered, and said that my children and I were welcome to go up on the mountain.

I also spoke with one of her sons, who said that his mother – now very, very old – suffered from dementia, and that it was unlikely that she would remember talking to me by the time we arrived. My daughters found this sad, and so they had my son stop so that they could buy flowers and a pie for the elderly woman. When we finally arrived, three of her children (all in their 60s and 70s), were at their mother’s house. They were pleased that my daughters had brought the gifts, and knowing the family’s interest in Irish history, I gave them a copy of my first book.



As is common with Owasco sites, although it is located at a high elevation, it is also on the border of a large marsh. The water on the main part of the site was up over my ankles, and so we decided to start with some test pits a distance away. One son said that noone had every found any signs of occupation there; however, I believed that the site is more expansive than they realized. The first three test pits all turned up flint flakes, indicating that a good amount of chipping of points took place there.

Between Monday afternoon and Tuesday, we made a 9-by-9 foot square (the total of the 3-by-3 squares), and as the soil was relatively dry, we were able to go approximately 7 inches deep. In the 1960s, the federal government had lent support for small farmers to engage in land reclamation – hence the bulldozing of brush – and bulldozing tends to compromise the integrity of a site, but I still had my notebook, and kept records of what the kids found, and where. In total, they found one whole Levanna point; 26 broken points (bases and tips); two preforms, or blanks; two knives; two "strike-a-lights"; a broken pendant; and 23 scrapers, primarily the diagnostic "thumbnail scrapers" associated with the Owasco. Also, they collected over 1000 flint chips.



Of course, in the past decade or so, some archaeologists in our state have been challenging some of Ritchie’s theories. This is a good thing, although I do not think that there is good reason to discount his ideas. Build on them, adjust, and consider alternatives – yes, of course. In Snow’s 1994 book "The Iroquois," he questioned the concept of the Owasco tradition as supporting the Iroquois in situ concept of development. He based that, in large part, on his interpretation of ceramics, along with his opinion that matriarchal cultures are associated with land acquisition through violence. Hence, I prefer Ritchie.

Also, in Issue 62 of the Northeast Anthropology abstracts (2001), Gates St. Pierre wrote that Ritchie’s Hunter’s Home phase (closely related to Owasco) was "an artificial construct" that confused the "simple intrusion of Owasco vessels into Point Penninsula components." Further, in their 2002 "The Death of Owasco," Hunt and Brumbach question if there is reason to use Ritchie’s concept of the Owasco tradition, at all. They, too, rely largely upon the interpretation of ceramics to support their position. Both of these papers also use Snow as a primary source. Still, I find their ideas to be interesting, and worthy of serious study.

From my previous work on attempting to find "common ground" between the interpretations of the archaeological record, with the oral traditions that Onondaga Chief Paul Waterman taught me, I found myself thinking about what the university professor and I spoke about two decades ago, while on this site. He was interested in having me assist him in documenting the village and camp sites between the Delaware and Susquehanna Rivers, from the general period of 700 to 1500 AD. That would include looking at the "established" museum and historical society collections, as well as as much information as we could gather from "amateur" archaeologists’ collctions, and from farmers, such as this land-owner. His duties ended up taking him to Asia for extended periods, however, and I eventually relocated to a different county. However, in the local three county area, I’m familiar with two other significant Hunter’s Home and Owasco sites (both studied extensively by the state, though without the access to "amateur" collections that I have). Also, I had spent six years excavating a rock shelter on a local mountain, that had three distinct occupation levels, including a "Hunter’s Home" at the top level, with material that is clearly from the White Site.

Thus, my plans at this point are to spend the next week writing up a report on the section my kids excavated, and to try to examine and identify the numerous flint types that the artifacts and 1000 chips represent. It was rather fun taking the trip back twenty years, to when I first became acquainted with the site. And now I can go back even further.



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FSogol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-25-09 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
1. Cool post. Thanks. n/t
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-25-09 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Thank you! n/t
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-25-09 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
2. What Is The Ultimate Goal?
Is there a specific point of view you're seeking to confirm?

Is DU running very slow? It took me forever to be able to reply.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-25-09 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. The ultimate goal
is to have DU up to speed. However, as it was "slow" for me, as well, I also came up with a few short term goals.

It's probably never a good thing to attribute today's thinking and values to past cultures. However, one would make a greater error in not looking for patterns in history, and cycles in some human behaviors. Thus, while an archaeologist for NYS and one from SUNY-Albany could announce the death of Owasco, I thought it interesting to think of the possibility that some-to-many of the same types of cultural pressures and stresses that were part of the Owasco cultural tradition have been updated and reincarnated in the current cultural tradition.

One thing I find curious is Snow's beliefs on the aggressive nature of matriachal societies. While there is definitely a history of matriarchal societies resorting to violence to defend territories, Snow believes they were violent in an expansive way. He notes that the same era he identifies in his Owasco theory is when the Northsmen conducted their raiding and control over distant lands. Perhaps their true identity was "Northswomen."

The reasons why the Northsmen began their raiding is open to question. Certainly, issues involving trade were a significant part .... or, the failure of old trade patterns. Quite the opposite of Snow's theory that the matriarchal Iroquois kidnapped the women from the long-time inhabitants of NYS, the Northsmen tended to have men in charge of their outposts .... and in some cases, such as Ireland, they were absorbed over time into the native culture.

I find it interesting that four people from Albany write papers/books that question Iroquois roots in the northeast, during the decade 1994-2003. By chance, this is when the federal law requiring the repatriation of burial remains and sacred objects was being put into effect. The single group that focused on the NYS museum & university system was the Iroquois. Further, until fairly recent times, the state's archaeological professionals were almost exclusively older white men. After the cultural shifts of the 1960s, a number of women got into the field. Having had more experience than I care for, in terms of hearing the older male view in "off the record" chats about the women, I can say that there has been more than a little tension. Add to this the fact that a far higher percentage of these women believe in respecting the Iroquois on matters of burial protection, etc, I think it is possible that this colors some of the current views from Albany. Matriarchal intrusiveness, you know.

I'm looking at the inventory of artifacts in two sequences: first, in terms of distance -- how certain things were traded, say from the Hudson Bay up through central NY; and second, in time -- how various objects and/or styles made that same move. Included in this is my attempt to find areas where the archaeological record and he oral traditions can be viewed as telling the same general story.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-25-09 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Fascinating
As to the 'aggressive nature of matriarchal societies' is there any type of recorded history regarding this tendency? Aside from the whole Amazon ides? Frankly it takes away from the credibility of professionals when their personal biases are allowed to interfere. I also wonder who funded the writing of those four books.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-25-09 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. I will admit
that there may be some documentation of the aggressive matriarchal societies, but I am not aware of it. I do know, from a variety of sources, of the connections between matriarchal cultures and certain types of violence -- which can range from defensive violence against aggressors, to the potential for "blood feuds" -- but in any of these cases, it is absolutely distinct from the organized violence that the one author wrote about. I can respect that he is a bright man, and very well-educated. Hence, he may know many things that I do not. But, in this instance, I think he interpreted things from a subjective viewpoint that blurred his vision.

Not unlike the Northsmen, who raided settlements on the coast of places including Ireland, and stole items of value -- which they often took home and buried -- a large number of early archaeologists raided Indian cemeteries, stole items of value, and returned home and buried the objects deep in the vaults of museums. In the early 1990s, the federal laws changed. The central moving force behind this change came from the Iroquois (and specifically, the Onondaga). It's almost as if the Norsemen were saying, "We do not believe that the Irish lived there very long, anyway." The one fellow wrote that in order to prove his theories, further tests had to be done on the human remains that were previously robbed, er, excavated from their graves. Too bad. Times change, and the law has, too.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-26-09 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #10
16. How Often Does It Happen
do you think that the evidence is made to fit the theory? I believe that is why so much mis-information has been passed down through the centuries. Now, I believe, more objective scholarship and science is putting some of the old thought to rest, sagely buried with no threat of them being ever dug up.

Am pleased to see this thread has survived the current hysteria.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-26-09 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. I was reading the
threads that you mention. I have to admit that I only know of the one lady, Farrah, because I remember that teenagers used to have a poster of her. Then I had read a couple threads recently on DU, about her being sick. I wouldn't wish suffering on anyone. In the case of Michael Jackson, I have seen a few more film clips, and listened to his music on the radio. I remember that he had been friends with Beatle Paul. I believe he grew up tortured by his father, lived a painful life, and may (or may not)have passed some of the suffering on to others. He was clearly a talented, successful commercial artist. A genius, he was not. In both cases, may they rest i peace, and may their family and friends find peace as well.

Now, to business. "Blood feuds" are perhaps best understood as "Hatfield vs McCoy." There is a relationship to the land, which causes one to harm an "other" who has been perceived to have encroached on the land. The other violated the boundry. He is injured or killed. The "other" group finds out. They seek revenge, either in a trap at the boundry, or a raid over the boundry. And back and forth it goes. In time, few if any recall the original transgression. It has become a blood feud.

In a matriachal society, there is sometimes (including in Iroquois society) a "safety valve" on feuds. A lost family member can be replaced, by adopting an "other." There are ceremonies, such as the infamous Iroquois' "running th gauntlet." Widows had the first choice of adopting the captured males. Then parents. Females were also adopted. Those who were not deemed worthy of adoption were subjected to a cruel fate, and Iroquois women were capable of absolute cruelty.

The fact that the Iroquois had adoption has led some anthropologists to conclude that any pottery from a different region found on a site is evidence that a woman was captured and adopted. But that is narrow, restricted thinking. This era is noted for its woodland trails, which became the early turnpikes in NYS. People traveled for reasons other than kidnapping and violence. For example, have you ever traveled for a "family reunion"? Have you ever brought a bowl of food, to pass around at the meal-time? Iroquois absolutely did -- in fact, there were 13 specific ceremonies, each which often involved travel and bringing food offerings, one for each lunar month of the year. Sometimes what is obvious seems hidden to those who are predisposed to look for the answer they are determined to find. (My daughters brought a pie and a beautiful vase of flowers to the elderly lady in the photo in the OP. They had not been kidnapped. By chance, the town historian had heard I was coming; she is the other lady in the photo. She has, in a space of 36 hours, become fascinated with the Indian history in her town. She absolutely understands, in a way one cannot learn in a classroom.)

In Ritchie's "big book," he noted that the Owasco tradition reached the area where we were .... of course, he had visited the site, but not been there to see the full inventory. My focus now is to examine the materials and a couple of distinct chipping styles. It appears to me that, just as the Iroquois and Algonquin in "historic" times recognized this region as a "no man's land" -- thus, avoiding blood feuds -- they were doing so back then. There is nothing on the site to suggest conflict; quite the opposite.

Anyhow .... my tendency to ramble on and on is surfacing here! Imagine the suffering of my children, when they are trapped in a car with me.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-26-09 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #17
28. Amen
to the rest in peace benediction. As to the rambling, I appreciate the fulsomeness of the answers. But then, I'm not trapped in the car. :evilgrin:
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rosesaylavee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-25-09 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
4. What a wonderful gift!
... for your children to be able to do this - to have the connection to the land, to the history and to be able to share this with family and their dad.

I know there are sites around here but unfortunately have no connections and no knowledge base to justify asking them if I could dig around. Thanks for the vicarious adventure!
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-25-09 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. On Sunday night,
I walked up a couple fields on our hill with my wife and daughters, to sit and watch hundreds and hundreds of fire flies putting on their show. Sometimes, the simple things are the best. Turn off the tv, the computer, the cell phones, etc. The earth is alive, and we are part of that on-going process.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-25-09 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. yes.. earth alive is what we have to put in our psyche...it may not always be there......
may be up to us to hold it in our memories, just in case something happens and much is lost.

Sorry...not to be gloomy but you reminded me of what is important.

The fireflies have been more abundant here in NC this year than last year where I posted on DU that there were only one or two of them. Maybe it's the economy is allowing more darkness from less activity and they feel more comfortable reproducing in numbers to show off their "lights."

Or...maybe last year was just an outlier... Whatever...it's been good to see more of them around this year.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-26-09 08:05 AM
Response to Reply #13
18. When the ground
is warm and damp, you will always see more fire flies. When it's cooler, and/or drier, not so many. At least that's what it is in the northeast.
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CrownPrinceBandar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-25-09 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
7. A whole Levanna point? Nice............
We get more of the Yadkin points around here. I don't think I've found a complete one in the 16 years I did archeology.

The nicest point I've ever found was a cool corner-notched St. Charles in Grant Co., WV. Unfortunately, it was in a farmer's field, so the provenience was blown to shit.

Good work, H20!!
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-25-09 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Thanks.
I think that the Yadkin points are your region's variation of the same basic point type: the Middle to Late Woodland era projectile point that was a true "arrowhead." A broad, triangular base, with a straight or concave base? The North Carolina Yadkin are often made of quartz or rhyolite. (In upstate NY, we have some quartz, usually from the Late Archaic "river" points from Long Island, NU, and New England; and rhyolite from PA in a variety of broadpoints, usually Susquehanna.)

In much of the country east of the Mississippi, these were "replaced" by the smaller Madison points. In our region, the Madison is associated with the Iroquois, though of course plenty of other people used the same style of true arrowhead.

From a few other local sites, I have found quite a few Levanna and Madison points. And I've found nice examples of most types going back to the paleo era. The photo below shows a few fluted points, etc:



I've only acquired one St. Charles, when I purchased a collection from an older fellow who had collected about 50 points during his travels. He kept absolutely no records, so the point had no real value in that sense.
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CrownPrinceBandar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-25-09 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. I was only privy to the finding of a paleo point.........
I was working in the Susquehanna Valley near Harrisburg for a highway project, and the guy pulls it out of the water screen. We all gave him good-natured shit for not finding it in situ, but it ultimately led to many celebratory drinks after work.

Nice collection. That's a sharp looking hand-axe.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-26-09 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #11
24. My son found
a broken base of a fluted point this spring. He is eager to find the rest of it.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-25-09 08:58 PM
Response to Original message
12. K&R....and........
Edited on Thu Jun-25-09 08:58 PM by KoKo
We used to dig around the Cold Spring/Fishkill, NY area looking for artifacts and we found some nice stuff of the settlements there around my husband's parents place. Dutch stuff we were looking for from original settlements. We found a pit for "kitchen waste" with some old bottles way back that I still have today...even though I now live in NC.

Happy memories of our digs...but nothing compared to what you and yours could be finding. It's very exciting checking out that history and digging. Putting it all together...with the history.

Thanks for the post!
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-26-09 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #12
19. I like all phases
of history. My house is, I suppose, a combination museum/library. The colonial period in my region involved some early Dutch traders, followed by the French traders, then the English and Scotch-Irish settlers. The Dutch left little .... some "trade pipes" found on Iroquois sites. The French, much the same. But I'll find some of those things, and post photos of them.

One of my best friends, who was with the state museum's Iroquois program, focused primarily on the Oneida in the contact period. He had one of, if not the, largest, best-documented collections. After his death, his daughters auctioned it off. I wish that it had stayed together. The local historical society and NYSAA chapter did not have room to keep it, though. I have a few hundred photos of his collection; I'll try to post some soon. You'll be amazed.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-26-09 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #19
25. Will look forward to that post...
would love to see the pictures.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-26-09 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #25
30. I've got to get
a new scanner/printer. The company I bought mine from closed last year, and my older son (who does all the computer work for me) hasn't been able to repair this one. This, of course, causes me some frustration, though minor compared to what the economic decline is causing others.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-26-09 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. PM me...when you get it..
Thanks...
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-25-09 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
14. cool.
i would be curious about the pottery. as someone who works in clay, i have found "experts" to often be quite stupid about it. the staff of the art institute of chicago would sometimes give lectures to the students at the school. they mostly had no idea about clay bodies, or simple things like the need for a teapot to pour.
just strange.

and violent matriarchies? say it isn't so. haha. i came up in the herstory era, where all women throughout history were nurturing, bosomy earth mothers. please don't tell me that isn't true.
lol
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-26-09 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #14
20. The first time I walked the site,
decades ago, I went to a boulder near the edge of the field. I remember getting down, and looking under a part of an "over-hang." And I found a pottery shard.

Are you interested in how they made it? Or in the designs? Or everything in general?
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-26-09 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #20
27. i am interested in what uses were made of pottery, and
how they made them. and the designs.
did they make fired pottery themselves, or trade for it? is the local clay there good for pottery?

i took a history of ceramics course at the art institute, as i mentioned. like all art history courses, you learn things about history history. it added much to my knowledge of native american history, which was mostly the nonsense that is taught in schools. when you have spent too much time in school, you may learn to associate one type of pottery with a particular tribe. but when you really look at history through the pottery, and you have spent some time working with your own hands, and clays, and building vessels, you really just know a lot more about what it means for a tribe to have large fancy vessels, or to only have a few small plain vessels. or that a grave was found, with the body of an elder, with many flowers, and potters tools.

sigh. that is the kind of history kids ought to be taught. instead of the names of generals and the dates of wars.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-27-09 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #27
34. Here is a little information
that you might find interesting. Please excuse that it may sound unorganized: I'm tired out, and am going off the top of my head. So, if this doesn't make sense, please say, "Hey ... explain what the heck you are trying to say!"

Before focusing on the specific site, I'll do a brief history of Indian "cooking vessels" in my area. The history is different, of course, in other regions.

Although little can be said with any certainty, people "cooked" food in central, upstate NY since the paleo era. But from 10,000 bc on to about 1500 bc, what was used -- if anything -- for cooking over an open fire pit or on one of the many "platforms" (generally a large area of sandstone or other non-shattering stones heated by fire) is anyone's guess. In the late archaic, there is very strong evidence of "pot boiling," or dropping a heated stone into a water-filled vessel .... these stones, with notches on each side to allow them to be picked-up with sticks, show the certain evidence of being in hearths/platforms. Likely, either large leaves similar to "skunk cabbage" were used (every outdorrs person should know this trick), or perhaps birch bark (birch was available then) or wooden bowls were used.

In the transitional phase (between archaic & woodland)soapstone from PA was introduced locally. It has wonderful advantages: it can be carved easily (the ancient pots look very similar to today's ovenware), and it lasts. More, a broken pot can be repaired, or used to make other things (I'll try to find some photos of the things I have that they made). Still, the pot size is somewhat limited, and they are somewhat bulky and heavy, as far as carrying.

In early woodland times - say by 2500 years ago -- Indian women were making clay vessels, which were far better suited for growing populations that relied more and more on plant foods -- some collected, others "gardened." These clay pots fit into 3.5 somewhat distinct groups. The early are known as Vinette, and were relatively simple pots, usually made by coils of clay. Middlewoodland pots begin to reflect the artistic nature of the women who made them. They have collars that have a number of types of designs, including some made with delicate fishing nets; fabric wrapped around a paddle; and clam shells. Some women used sticks to create patterns on the vessel's lips.I have one rim shard with the design made by the woman's thumbnail.

Late woodland pots include those from the Owasco phase (which differ from early Owasco to late), and then the more well-know pots that were seen during the contact period. These tend to have the castellations on the rims (frequently with stylized effigy faces) and more developed geomatric patterns on the collars.

Now, regarding the site where I was. Often, like here, even though the site is at a high elevation, there is plenty of water. For a variety of reasons, people camped near swamps. And a swamp is wet, because there is clay relatively close to the surface, just under the top soil. The women would gather clean clay, dry it, use hammer stones to break it up, then store it for use. When it was time to renew the supply of pots, they would mix the clay with something similar to what you likely called "grog" in classes: in this case, sand, ground clam shells, and crushed quartzite. Also, they frequently added plant fiber as a stabilizer (likely Indian hemp and/or dogbane). After blending these, water was added, and the mixture kneaded.

The women made both coil-on-coil, then smoothed, pots, and others by the "hand/anvil" process. In both cases, the women made symmetric pots, considering they lacked potter's wheels. After completing the form, a variety of objects were used to decorate the pots. These women were artists. At some point soon, I'll post some photos of various artworks I've found.

I hope this has been of interest to you.



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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-27-09 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. thank you.
very interesting. sounds like these were pretty sophisticated potters. i would like to see some photos.
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crickets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-26-09 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
15. Fascinating post! Thanks for this. -nt
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-26-09 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #15
22. Thank you.
I'm glad that you enjoyed it.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-26-09 08:17 AM
Response to Original message
21. Wonder who will be digging for our crap that out-lives us?
:D
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-26-09 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. David Macaulay
suggested in his 1979 "Motel of Mysteries" that an accidental reduction in postal rates on 3rd and 4th class mail would result in a cataclysmic burying of North America. Hundreds of years later, he imagined, archaeologists would try to find out "who were these people?" Also, "where did they come from," and "what the heck were they doing?"

Of course, we are the United States, and our nation will survive, intact, forever. Maybe longer, if God has His way.
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brendan120678 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-26-09 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
26. Cool...I spent many summers as a youth....
not too far from that general area. I was born and raised in the Binghamton area, but had relatives who had summer cabins scattered throughout Delaware and Sullivan counties. Plus when I was in Boy Scouts, the council's Scout camp was also not too far from there, in southeastern Broome County.

Very nifty stuff - American Indian culture just absolutely fascinates me.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-26-09 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #26
29. Binghamton
is a very short distance from the dividing line between Broome and Delaware Counties, a line that actually divides the village of Deposit. The original name for Deposit was an Indian phrase to describe the owls' nests, high in the trees above the river. I don't doubt that you would have an image of this, especially from going to your relatives' camps.

Deposit, Windsor, and even Stamford were areas where Mohawk leader Joseph Brant had camps (Windsor being the largest). I have quite a few artifacts from these sites, from the Revolutionary War. Brant was a major influence in the "border wars" in the Revolution. On my mother's side, there were relatives (John Ross, for one) who were closely associated with Brant. He was a curious mixture of the good and bad in human nature. My sons are using an old paper I wrote years ago, that map Brant's movements in this region. A forgotten part of our local history involves the numerous "runaway slaves" who joined forces with Brant. Fascinating stuff, in my opinion.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-26-09 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
31. Some finds ....
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-26-09 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. some others ....


(scrapers)
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-27-09 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
36. Thank you for bringing us along on your family outing

I will reread it and be ready for the test on Monday.
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