Chevy Volt, for $40000

[Deja Q]

Poll question: Chevy Volt, for $40000

Poll result (145 votes)
Will buy	(6 votes, 4%)	Vote
will not buy	(118 votes, 81%)	Vote
Needs to be price competitive; are the execs fleecing by an inflated price?	(21 votes, 14%)	Vote

[hobbit709]

1. $40,000 is about $39,900 past my affordability range.

[dorkulon]

2. Does it have a kitchen and bathroom?

I could see it then.

[TheCowsCameHome]

3. 40K puts one in a wide field

of nice iron to pick from.

[Ian David]

4. I'd buy a 3-year-old Volt for $20,000 but not a new one for $40,000 n/t

[dysfunctional press]

80. and then you get to pay for replacing the batteries.

used electrics will be a different animal than used internal-combustion vehicles.

[ThomWV]

81. and if there is a god in the Universe a replacement set will cost you $20,000

because we were meant to be fucked from the moment of birth to the moment of death.

[dysfunctional press]

85. thankfully, there isn't...

but that doesn't mean that it WON'T be pricey.

[Fearless]

86. If we're meant to be fucked from birth to dead then I've missed out on some valuable fucking!

[Ian David]

82. Anything metallic an be recycled, including (eventually) the batteries. n/t

[dysfunctional press]

84. that doesn't mean that replacing them will be cheap.

nt

[Ian David]

91. True. n/t

[flvegan]

5. No thanks.

Not a competitive price. If it had 450 horsepower, that would be different.

[Baclava]

36. For 40 grand you can get a 2007 Corvette Z06 / 505hp LS7 engine

Just sayin'...

[flvegan]

40. See? Now that's thinking!

I'm going to wait a couple years. Right around the time the Volt finally comes out, I'm hoping I can snag a used ZR1 for the same price.

[blue_onyx]

6. If I was financially able to buy it, I would

$40,000 will definitely be out of what I think my price range will be when the Volt comes out.

[DireStrike]

7. Lol.

They want to go out of business, or what?

[gatorboy]

14. Heh! I remember when they were promoting this earlier. This price was going to be under $30,000.

So much for that.

[Indydem]

17. It will be (or should be)

40,000
-7500 Federal Tax credit
-2500 State tax credit

$30000

[Statistical]

53. $30K is/was a pipedream.

The battery pack is about $10K alone.

Maybe if 4-5 years IF the cost of batteries get cut in half we will see a $32K-$34K sticker.

[Deja Q]

18. Seems like it.

They'll blame workers' wages as well; people aren't buying that notion any more either...

[Bolo Boffin]

8. Would buy if I could afford it

But I can't buy it at that price.

[AngryAmish]

9. A first model of a government-built car? No thanks.

I am the perfect customer. I have a garage. Vast majority of my driving is in the range. But there is no way that thing is going to work.

[Deja Q]

22. Wasn't this Volt started before the government intervention?

[Selatius]

10. There's no help for poor people when it comes to buying hybrids.

If you offer a poor person a tax break on a hybrid, the person probably won't even buy the hybrid anyway, simply because he probably doesn't make enough money to buy something so expensive to begin with. He would have to spend money he doesn't have in order to file for the tax break. It's a catch-22.

[Downtown Hound]

11. Shit, you could buy a used diesel Jetta

for a fraction of that and run it on bio-diesel. Great mileage and good for the environment too, as long as you make your own. The Volt is just another example of GM not taking its environmental responsibilities seriously. They knew full well all the time they were building it that $40,000 is way too much for a viable consumer car, and they built it anyways. The whole project was just a bone they could throw out to environmentalists so they could say they were working on the ultimate green car.

[Initech]

12. If they were to price it competitevly with the Insight and Prius, I would absolutely.

[Peregrine]

23. The Insight and Prius are not the same class as the Volt

Toyota is also begging the gov't for subsidies for their plug-in, which they announced will be delayed. Do I wish it was cheaper, hell yes. But there is no other car in the Volt's class to compare it to.

[Initech]

32. True but $40K = wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy out of my price range.

[Johonny]

50. seems like it's in the same class

The likely buyer of the Volt is the people that bought the Prius. For new technology there is only a certain fraction of the populous that is going to explore that option particularly since they start at a premium price. The all electric might not be exactly the same technology as the hybrid, but it's certainly going to be fighting for the same costumer base. It's unclear if that base will spend that much more for the Volt over waiting on Toyota and it's plug-in options or simply going bio-diesel. It certainly won't help them if the car isn't priced to compete.

[Statistical]

54. A plug in prius with a 16KWH battery capacity likely would be the same price. n/t

[Deja Q]

24. Wholly agreed.

And those workers are still making a good living too. (Toyota builds in the US...)

It's not about workers' wages, to those who somehow think it is.

[Soylent Brice]

13. i like the new pic, Deja Q.

[Deja Q]

19. Thx!

[Soylent Brice]

25. no, thank you!

now i get to see dr. who at least once a day.

and that will be AWESOME.

[EndersDame]

64. It is awesome, although I think that Trelane is missing!

:p

[KharmaTrain]

15. Give Me A Tax Break & A Deduction...

If it's my tax money going to purchase this thing, then I feel entitled to either no or defered taxes on the purchase of the car and a deduction on the financing (like a mortgage) or some kind of depreciation or tax credit (like an energy deduction) for the next 3 years.

Right now, for the $30k or so I'd have to pay...going from around 30MPG to 45 isn't that much of a bargain.

[Deja Q]

20. Even the clunker incentive won't help make a dent...

Then again, Honda and Toyota make VERY reliable cars; Toyota makes their cars in the USA as well... so I might go for a Prius instead...

[lob1]

16. It seems to me I heard it'll only get about 60 miles per charge.

If that's sure, and I think it is, I wouldn't buy it for half the price.

[Peregrine]

27. You do know that at that point the gas engine starts

to provide electricity to the motor to extend its range.

[lob1]

29. If you are right, then wouldn't it be getting more than 60 miles per charge?

[NickB79]

37. Here's how it works

You plug in your Volt at night.

In the morning, you get in and start to drive. After 40-60 miles on pure battery power (depending on how fast you drive, if you use AC, etc), your car switches on the gasoline engine. Remember that at this point your battery isn't dead; it's actually still about 60% charged. However, draining it further will harm it's lifespan. So, the gas engine starts up and pumps electricity back into the battery as you continue to drive, still using the electric motor. Since the Volt has a decent gas tank (~12 gallons?) and gets 40 mpg when the gas engine is kicked in, your total range would be well over 500 miles (40 miles all-battery + 480 miles from the gas engine assistance).

[lob1]

Thanks for the info, NickB79. That's a big difference,

Sounds like you could actually take the Volt on a trip.

[Statistical]

56. Exactly.

The goal being that most commuters have a 20-30 mile commute.

So hypothetically if you had a Volt and only drove it to work 5 days a week, 20 miles each way and charged it at the end of the day you would never use any gas.

Electricity is WAY WAY WAY WAY cheaper than gas.

Take a prius as comparison.
Say $4.00 gas (in the future it is coming) / 50mpg = $0.08 per mile.

The volt will get about 3 miles per KWH of electricity.
$0.12 per KWH / 3 = $0.04 per mile.

So just looking at commuter miles 10,400 miles (40 miles per day, 5 days per week, 52 weeks per year).

Prius
10,400 / 50 = 208 gallons * $4.00 per gallon = $832 annual energy usage

Volt
10,400 / 3 = 3470 KWH * $0.11 = $382 annual energy usage

Average Car (25mpg)
10,400 / 25 = 416 gallons * $4.00 per gallon = $1664 annual energy usage

[Uben]

21. Call me when they get to $20K

At $40K, I'm just giving my money to GM instead of Exxon-Mobil.

[Sebastian Doyle]

26. If I was going to spend that kind of money, I'd go with a Tesla

http://www.teslamotors.com/buy/buyshowroom.php

[fujiyama]

39. Isn't the Tesla Roadster more like a $100,000?

Either way, it's all funny money at that point. I don't know who wants to get stuck into paying monthly car payments at this point. I'd rather buy a used car. Hell, for $40,000 in MI, you can buy a freaking house for that much.

Cars are lasting longer and I think people are less interested now in monthly payments and higher insurance associated with buying a new vehicle.

The Volt is nice, but it's just not at a reasonable price point for most people. Also, I think people at this point are still a little weary of the reliability, being that the technology has no record yet. I'm afraid that even though GM has a car with great technology, the Prius and Insight will still win customers over, because the gas-hybrids are fairly well proven at this point.

But we'll see. The volt may yet prove to be a winner. Maybe it will win over some potential Cadillac and other entry-mid range luxury buyers. Because at that price point, that's the group you're really aiming for.

[Sebastian Doyle]

43. Yeah, the Roadster is $100 K

But their new 4 door sedan model is a more "reasonable" $49K. And it will go 300 miles on a charge, which is even further than the Roadster does.

[sentelle]

28. whats the rate for leasing

and is it competitive against the EV-1?

[zeemike]

30. What they are saying is

We will give you what you want but it is going to cost you more...now could we interest you in a nice gas guzzler at half that price?
When the truth is that it cost much less to produce a electric car than a gas one.

[Statistical]

67. Not true.

Nobody has made a battery pack in the 16-18KWH range for less than $10,000.

GM estimates the battery pack in the Volt (16KWH good for 40 miles) costs about $11,000 to produce.
The battery pack alone in the Tesla Roadster (53KWH good for 180 miles) costs about $36,000 to produce.
Now compare that to a plastic gasoline tank that costs maybe $200 to hold the same amount of power (in liquid gasoline form).

Until battery packs drop substantially in price electric cars will be sold at a premium.

Even the SmartCar EV (not released yet) is estimated to be $20,000+ compared to $11,000 for a gasoline powered one.

If tomorrow you invented a battery that cost half (per watt) of what lithium ion batteries cost today you would be a billionare.
Overnight. The market goes far beyond electric cars (cellphones, laptops, even satellite equipment).

[zeemike]

69. And that is true only because these batteries are not mass produced

Like the gas engine is...or the plastic fuel tank.
It is not the cost of materials that makes the battery expensive so what then is it?
but compare the electric motor to the gas motor...electric motor...one moving part....Gas motor...hundreds of them. not to mention the materials that make them up...and the mass.
And even the electric motors themselves would be much cheaper if they were made in a factory with a production line.
And then there is the things you don't need in an EV...like the gas tank but also a transmission, drive shaft, differential, and expensive catalytic converter which uses platinum and exhaust system...in fact the underside of the car could be a smooth surface and would reduce drag.

Nope I don't buy the meme that EVs are more expencive...sorry.

[Statistical]

75. Not mass produced?

Have you looked around?

The worldwide market for lithium ion batteries is a couple billion.

cellphones, gaming devices, laptops, mp3 players, portable dvd, portable tv, etc.

Lithium ion batteries are one of the most mass produced devices in the world.

If someone could patent a method to cut the price by 50% and charge a 10% royalty (thus saving companies 40%) the world wide savings would be hundred and hundreds of millions.

Despite hundreds of universities and despite dozens of companies working on it nobody has figured it out yet.

If you think you can make a battery pack that costs half as much do it. You would be helping the world and make yourself so wealthy you would make Bill Gates look like middle class.

[zeemike]

83. Mass produced for cell phones but not cars.

There is a diference...especialy in size.
there was one EV that used cell phone batteries in it's car...thousands of them because no one makes one that large.
And I would refer you to the movie "Who Killed The Electric Car" a documentary on the GM EV1 that was crushed in the 90s
That was the initial excuse for not wanting to build the EV was that the batteries were not available...but then a guy who's name I can't remember but he is in the movie...went and built a factory to produce the battery a few miles from the GM plant...that battery was used in the EV1 until GM called in all the cars and crushed them all...they bought the rights to the battery and then closed the plant when they crushed the cars...An oil company now owns the batterys...It is all in the movie.
And by the way the guy that invented that NIHI battery and sold it to GM used the money to build a factory to produce cheep solar panels that could be nailed up like shingles on the roof.
Don't believe all the shit you hear and buy all the excuses they have for wanting to keep us burning the oil that they sell.

[Lugnut]

31. Not on my budget.

I don't buy $40,000 cars.

[FLAprogressive]

33. they WANT electric cars to fail.

[yodoobo]

34. That's alot of money for a version 1.0 product

That is comparable to a $20,000 version 20.x product

quite a bit of money, and quite a bit of risk to be an early adopter.

[Romulox]

35. Fact check! The car will be eligible for a $7500 tax break.

[NickB79]

38. So it will only be $15,000 out of my price range?

Joy!

[Romulox]

45. The average cost of a new car in the US is $28400. The tax breaks makes the Volt $4000 more

A significant difference, of course, but not astronomical.

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/autos/aut11.sh...

[NickB79]

58. Right now very few people are buying new cars of any kind, though

The market for new cars has crashed in the past year, largely because people have begun to second-guess the idea of spending almost $30K on a new car in the midst of one of the worst recessions on record.

Unless the economy improves drastically, saying the Volt is "only" $4000 above the average cost gets you nowhere, because the average American isn't buying a new car in this environment.

The worst part is that I actually really, really like the Volt and the engineering behind it. Unfortunately, as long as the economy is in rough shape, gas prices will stay relatively low (compared to last year's $4/gal price spike). And while gas stays under $3/gal, I don't see a huge demand for the Volt.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

41. Sure. If they'll giive me $38000 for my '94 Toyota.

[elmaji]

42. What! Don't you want to support the unions?!?!?!

[BlooInBloo]

44. The car is fail.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/car_shopp...

[4lbs]

46. What the heck is making the Volt cost $15,000 to $20,000 more than competing alternatives from

other car companies?

[Romulox]

49. Link to similar models for $20,000? nt

[4lbs]

51. Warren Buffett is investing greatly in one such car.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/04/13/technology/gunther_elec... /

<snip>
BYD has also begun selling a plug-in electric car with a backup gasoline engine, a move putting it ahead of GM, Nissan, and Toyota. BYD's plug-in, called the F3DM (for "dual mode"), goes farther on a single charge - 62 miles - than other electric vehicles and sells for about $22,000, less than the plug-in Prius and much-hyped Chevy Volt are expected to cost when they hit the market in late 2010. Put simply, this little-known upstart has accelerated ahead of its much bigger rivals in the race to build an affordable electric car. Today BYD employs 130,000 people in 11 factories, eight in China and one each in India, Hungary, and Romania.
</snip>

[northzax]

59. BYD?

sure, much cheaper. Chinese labor, environmental and safety standards (for production) are significantly lower than the US, and therefore significantly cheaper. of course, all competition is good, but if you are buying a new technology, do you want it from a company you've never heard of?

and let's not forget, even at $40k, the Volt is a loss leader for GM (it took almost ten years for Toyota to make a profit on the Prius, after all)

[4lbs]

61. I'll tend to trust Warren Buffett. He wouldn't throw $230 million into a car company to have it

produce a bunch of "lemons".

Even if there's a $8000 additional cost for it to come to the US, that's still only a $22,500 cost (after $7,500 rebate) for us here in the US.

[northzax]

62. another way to look at it...

is that $230 million to Berkshire Hathaway is a rounding error (the company had revenue of $107 billion last year) this is venture capital to see if it can be scaled, and I am sure that BH extracted some impressive terms for their investment, they usually do)

and of course it's cheaper, that's the whole point. everything made in China is cheaper (transport is negligible, it costs maybe $1000 to ship in mass quantities) the question is, can they scale production and meet US safety standards? and will Beijing approve the sale in the first place? BH is investing in the guy behind BYD, who is supposed to be a technological rock star. maybe he's Steve Jobs and has figured it out, maybe he's not. we'll find out.

I would still rather buy a car made in the US, thanks.

[4lbs]

63. Which is why I said maybe it would actually be $30,000 here in the US to 'upgrade' it for US stds.

Nevertheless,

We have version 1.0 of a Chevy Volt versus version 1.0 of the BYD.

Once again, even if an additional $8,000 was spent to upgrade the BYD for US standards, what makes the Volt at least $10,000 more expensive?

I just want to know what that extra $10,000 pays for? Much better mileage, longer lasting battery, more solid construction that can better survive an impact with a truck or SUV? What?

No one can say.

[Statistical]

68. You are comparing apples and oranges.

You are guessing the BYD can make it for $22K. GM initially thought they could make the Volt for $30K-$35K but hit some huge hurdles in the battery dept.

Also you assume that the BYD vehicle would meet the quality standards Americans can come to expect. Maybe it will be as reliable and have as high a quality feel as a 7 year old Kia that has been in 2 wrecks.

Lastly you have no idea what cost it will take to Americanize it (airbags, anti lock brakes, seatbelt pretensioners, 5mph bumpers, crash test ratings, crumple zones, etc).

Also it would need to be sold in the US which facilitates dealership overhead.

So IF BYD someday has a vehicle for sale in the US for $28K and at the same time the Volt if $40K then you have a point but we are a LONGGGGGGGGGG way from there.

Buffet may simply be investing because cheap reliable transportation for the 3rd world is a growing & profitable market.

[Romulox]

74. The Volt will be $32,500 after tax break. Your argument is WAY off base. nt

[Romulox]

72. Umm, can you say "not street legal in the USA, made in China"? Not even close. nt

[Romulox]

47. Average cost of a new car in the USA is $28,400. The volt is $32,500 after $7500 tax break. nt

[4lbs]

55. That's a little high.

A 2009 Hyundai Sonata GLS V6, fully loaded automatic, is $22,000 MSRP and gets EPA 22 MPG city, 30 highway.

[Romulox]

73. Then put your fingers in years ears and say, "I'm not listening!" if the facts aren't on your side.

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/autos/aut11.sh...

[NashVegas]

48. I'll Buy a Used One When Resale Value Hits < $3,000

The last time I bought new was 1989. Never again - even if I could afford it.

[Statistical]

52. It is more like $32,500....

There is a $7,500 tax credit for electric vehicles having 16KWH of battery capacity or greater.

The volt qualifies.

Also I did the math and it will save you about 50% on energy vs even a Prius so that is about another $500 (@ $4.00 per gallon gas) or so per year say $3500 over 7 years.

Still it is too expensive. If they can get the sticker down to $32K then with gas savings and credit it would be comparable to a Prius.

[Stevepol]

57. If we get single payer, the price comes down to $30K

[sarcasmo]

60. Needs to be in the 20,000 dollar range to have a mass appeal.

[Regret My New Name]

65. I'll wait until I win one at the mall...

[crazyjoe]

66. look at the bright side, it will pay for itself in 30 years or so.

[jakefrep]

70. Where's the "I'd consider it" option?

I'm willing to give the car a look, if it's available when I'm ready to get a new car.

[jschurchin]

71. 40K?????????

Are they fucking nuts? My HOUSE only cost 50, why would anyone in their right mind pay 40 for a CAR?

[Statistical]

78. Is your house worth $50K today? n/t

[Occam Bandage]

76. 40k? Looks like they're trying to kill electric cars in the crib, yet again.

[tabbycat31]

77. call me when it's 20K

that's my high price range for a car.

[L0oniX]

79. That is a SHOCKING price.

[varelse]

87. Can't afford that, don't drive anyway and

we've got a used car that is still in great condition.

[Zavulon]

88. Not a chance.

I wouldn't buy a Volt for a third of that price. Worse, once the government has completed its takeover of GM, I will be doing my car shopping elsewhere. The first GM casualty I see when the government mismanages it and wastes billions will be to renege on warranties, and I want no part of it.

[workinclasszero]

89. What a joke

I guess the people remaining at GM really have a death wish. The people who really need a car like this will NEVER be able to afford it!

The Volt will be the Segway of cars. A toy for the rich.

Screw it, I guess I'll have to get a Kia for 9800 or so that gets pretty good gas mileage and a 10 year warranty.

Sure wish I could buy american but GM doesn't want to make a car for me.

[blues90]

90. insanity

It's complete insanity to pay $40,000 for a way around . How can this expense be justified even when you look at the price of a gallon of gas?

How can any car that rolls out of a factory cost so much when this is not new technology really.

One used to be able to buy a house for less that that 30 years ago.

Want to save the planet lets get light rail but to pay $40,000 plus whatever it costs for a new and heavy battery pack is insane.

Has anyone considered how the added weight of the battery set weights and what the result would be in an collision?

$40,000 is before tax and interest and insurance.

[madokie]

92. In a heart beat

if I could afford it. This is coming from a Ford man too. I believe the ic engine coupled to a generator connected to an electric motor is going to be in our future in our personal transportation. Right along with true EV's.