Charter School Report: they don't work as well as public schools

[Sancho]

"Charter schools get poor marks

On average, students in charter schools lag behind their peers in traditional public schools, and the black and Hispanic students among them perform even worse, says a high-profile national report released Monday.
The findings were even less flattering for Florida, a leading state in charter school enrollment.

-snip-

The Stanford study, based on standardized test results from 2,400 charter schools in 15 states and the District of Columbia, is the most in-depth look at charters to date. To compare, the researchers matched every charter student in the study with another student in surrounding public schools with the same race, income and test scores. The result: Forty-six percent of charter schools offered a comparable education to similar public schools, 17 percent offered a superior education and 37 percent offered an inferior one. "We find that a pretty sobering finding," said Margaret Raymond, the study's lead author. It shows "charter schools are not the panacea they often are made out to be," said Randi Weingarten, president of the American Federation of Teachers, in a written statement."

http://www.tampabay.com/news/education/k12/article1010454.ece
or
http://tampabay.com/news/education/k12/article1010454.ece#

In Florida, charter schools are a way to undermine public schools, feed segregation, defeat collective bargaining, and teach a right wing curriculum. Even if you think your charter school is good, overall they are not as effective as public schools.

[Robb]

1. I'll preempt the "public schools suck" crowd

...and point out the results were based on how the kids did on standardized testing.

That said, I'm no fan of what is essentially a deregulation of education to a profit model -- with very few exceptions.

[Born_A_Truman]

14. Not all charter schools charge money

My grandson goes to a charter Montessouri school in an elementary district nearby. It is free. My daughter chose it because her local elementary didn't have a gifted program.

[Luminous Animal]

36. "Profit" charters does not mean tuition.

It means that money is going to a private company to run the schools. Some charters are run by non-profits but even so, these are privately run companies with little public oversight.

[BOSSHOG]

2. A HA - The "STANFORD" Study

Just more liberal trashing of what's best for America, conservative values. We need God in school, not education.

[LWolf]

3. Charter schools:

Another move towards privatization and corporate schools that "CEO" Arne Duncan is happy to take.

[FiveGoodMen]

4. K&R for public education

[ColbertWatcher]

11. I'll second that. k+r for public education. n/t

[knitter4democracy]

5. Duh.

I almost took a job in one, and then I went to their parent info night. The supt. was giving the presentation, and he was such an idiot that I ran like heck away from there. There's absolutely no oversight on the teachers they hire or the supt. or principal or anyone--and it shows.

[RufusTFirefly]

6. K & R for 12 good years in public school. (pre-Reagan, obviously) n/t

[sallylou666]

7. Public Charter Schools Exist

My kid goes to a charter school in our public school district. It's an IB high school. All AP classes and a very diverse student body. Surely this is the best of all possible worlds! My kid loves it. The class sizes are small and all of his teachers know who he is. Unfortunately, there are only so many slots and many kids can't get in. Admission is by lottery based on residence, which keeps the school diverse.

[Sancho]

23. there are lots of variations of "charter schools"

and there is nothing wrong with IB programs and AP classes. In Florida, the charters are a way to take dollars from the public schools and create segregation. It doesn't have to be that way and maybe your case is better than others.

[JDPriestly]

8. K&R for public education -- can't be beat. It's the best for k - 12.

Private schools are for snobs. Charter schools are a gimmick.

[HERVEPA]

10. Huge Overgeneralizing

My kids, who are to some degree free spirits, thrived in private school, even though it was difficult for us to pay for.
We were in a "good" suburban district, but the regimentation and lack of flexibility were stifling them.
They expanded greatly in happiness and socialization in the private school.
One size does not fit all. I do realize that many/most can't afford a private school.

[JDPriestly]

22. My children had flexible classrooms in public schools. It's a matter

of having small classes and giving the teachers a lot of autonomy. My kids are also free spirits. My husband and I were very involved with their teachers and let the teachers know that we supported them in their work. We live in a poorer, inner city area. The schools have terrible reputations, but we got our children into good programs. Other parents could do the same, but you have to make sure that your children work hard and behave in school and have positive attitudes. A lot of homes are too troubled to give their children the kind of stability that gives them advantages and permits them to excel in public schools. The public schools have to put up with a lot of kids who are abused or neglected at home. That is the problem. It's not the schools. It's the homes, and it's not a matter of how much money the parents have. It's how willing they are to focus on their children's needs. Too many parents have more important things to do today.

[HERVEPA]

38. I understand, but in our case

it was a "good" school in a district with certainly above average median income.
Presumably coming from the top down, there was little or no outlet for those kids with freer spirits

[villager]

9. Here in L.A., many of them provide great alternatives. We're very happy with oldest son's charter

high school...

...which he went to after a couple years in an all right public middle school...

[mopinko]

12. cherry pick much?

"It also found that high-poverty students and students who speak English as a second language perform better in charters; students in elementary and middle charters are making bigger gains than their traditional public school peers; and by their third year, students in charters are doing better than their peers who remain in traditional public schools. The study did not attempt to answer why.

In Florida, many charter schools are humming. The Learning Gate Community School in Lutz, which offers an environmentally based curriculum, earned its sixth A in a row last year. The arts-centered Academie Da Vinci in Dunedin annually ranks among the top schools in Pinellas."

in chicago, charters are evaluated by the district and the parents, and if they flunk, they close. until arne duncan came to chicago failing public schools just kept on failing, year in year out.
now, which system do you think is accountable?

[Sancho]

24. the matched sample across multiple states speaks for itself...

some charters work, but over all the exact same types of kids did better in public schools...any single example doesn't alter the conclusion.

[Celebration]

13. my daughter teaches in a "Big Picture" school

I guess it is a charter school of sorts. Small classes in high school, don't change classes (she teaches every subject), she follows them from ninth through twelfth grade. It's for kids at risk for dropping out of regular high schools for a variety of reasons--including some students that lost interest in learning, need more individual attention, or are bullied. They all have mentors in the private sector. The "Big Picture" schools across the country get public funding as well as private donations.

There are all different kinds of charter schools. Big Picture schools work very well for their purpose.

http://www.bigpicture.org/about-us/

"Big Picture Learning’s mission is to lead vital changes in education, both in the United States and internationally, by generating and sustaining innovative, personalized schools that work in tandem with the real world of the greater community. We believe that in order to sustain successful schools where authentic and relevant learning takes place, we must continually innovate techniques and test learning tools to make our schools better and more rigorous. Lastly, we believe that in order to create and influence the schools of the future, we must use the lessons learned through our practice and research to give us added leverage to impact changes in public policy."

[mopinko]

28. my favorite free idea to make schools work better for poor kids- one teacher

good to see someone has picked up on my pet idea. always thought that classrooms full of poor kids needed relationships as much as they needed ideas. let those kids stay with the same teacher for 3 or 4 years, and you know they would do better. and to the people who ALWAYS say- well what if they have a bad teacher- fire them. they wont be able to hide in this system. you will have to fire them. sorry.

[Celebration]

32. yes, the small classes are a plus, too

Most of her 14 students have challenging home lives. It's a difficult job. Her school truly isn't for every student. So the idea of different type schools for different students appeals to me.

[mopinko]

35. boy that is another thing about this issue.

it pisses me off that in a city that has such a huge system, with all kinds of kids, they have a math and science magnet high school in each of the 5 regions, but no art school. a couple of the high schools that take kids from outside the attendance area have good fine/performing arts programs, but the kids have to have the same grades, test scores, etc that they need to get into the "gifted" programs. duh. just duh. in a city with a huge chunk of it's economy coming from creative pursuits. :banghead:

[HopeHoops]

15. Can't be as bad as the Internet school Santorum scammed Penn Hills out of $100K for his "residence"

The neighbors claim Santorum's family never spent a single night in the shack. They scored $100K from the Penn Hills school district to fund their "cyber education". Given how fucking stupid Santorum is, I'm guessing his kids will end up just as uneducated. And all this time, Ricky lived in a mansion in Leesburg, VA. I'm glad we kicked him the hell out of PA. He can just do his stupid shit on FOX now - right where he belongs.

[Sancho]

25. in Florida the charters are a cash cow for friends and relatives of politicians

Jeb made sure of that...

[madfloridian]

16. America was built on a strong public school system. We need to keep it.

Thanks for this post. We can not go off in all directions taking public school tax money with us.

Arne Duncan will not be the savior of the school system...he will do great harm with his desires to do more testing and have more charter schools.

[proud2BlibKansan]

17. Duh

Could have told them this long before they spent all this money on a formal study.

[Telly Savalas]

18. Well it seems to vary between regions.

For instance, they're doing better in Missouri:

http://www.kansascity.com/115/story/1253876.html

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. That article is very poorly written, especially the headline

Buried further down:

Arthur A. Benson II, a member of the Kansas City school board, said that statement “conflicts with other data that I have seen.” Based on other data, he said, district schools on average have beaten out the city’s charter schools in most academic areas.

The Stanford report did show Missouri charter schools lag behind district schools in some areas. For example, students enrolled in charters for one year and poor students would have done better in reading and math in a traditional public school. The same was true in math for students who are learning English.

I am not a fan of Benson's but he is correct. The KC public schools have consistently outperformed the charters. There is ONE that does well and the rest are not. I have seen the test scores.

You can play all kinds of games with data. This reminds me of the year we were told one of our charters had graduated 100% of its seniors. Turns out they had 3 seniors. I can train my dog to teach 3 kids and get them to graduate. Just sayin. LOL

[Wednesdays]

20. K&R

:kick:

[deaniac21]

21. Wow, they must really suck.

[Reader Rabbit]

26. I'd laugh, but it's the kids who will suffer as a result.

All the schmucks who advocated for charter schools will probably get promotions and raises. We live in a Dilbert world, unfortunately.

[Dappleganger]

31. Please don't.

There are a lot of parents in our area with children who are falling through the cracks and charter schools have been sold to them as a way to 'save' their kids. They do it out of desperation. I feel sorry for them and wish the PS would get fixed first with the money they are throwing at these schools of unaccountability.

[MadHound]

27. One of those D'uh moments.

Of course public schools outperform charter schools, this is what happens when you try to do education on the cheap, or at least cheaper than public schools.

But sadly, we've got a wrong headed administration which appointed a charter proponent as Sec. of Education, which means that the press for an evermore privatized school system continues unabated.

[Dappleganger]

29. I just read this and am not surprised at all.

The #1 reason is lack of accountability/oversight.

We are currently looking into doing FLVS http://www.flvs.net/Pages/default.aspx for our upcoming 7th grader, but it has VERY marks in the state. There is regular teacher interaction and accountability, testing on what they've learned, etc. Traditional middle school is just not working out well for her (the wrong kind of socialization). We have homeschooled in the past but only the younger ones, and they've all been in public school for quite some time. This is a happy medium and we're relieved that it's available for free to FL students. A gay family told us about this as an alternative and they've been extremely pleased with the results for their middle school son who's been doing it for several years. Our daughter loves computers and is a self-learner so that should help.

[Karmadillo]

30. Good thing Obama thinks they're a good thing. He wants to double the funding for them.

http://media.www.cm-life.com/media/storage/paper906/news/2009/03/16/News/Obama.Wants.Charter.School.Caps.Lifted.Startup.Grants.Doubled-3672242.shtml

Obama wants charter school caps lifted, startup grants doubled

Central Michigan University officials say they would charter more schools if allowed and they may get their way under the Obama administration.

President Barack Obama supports the expansion of charter schools nationwide as part of his effort to reform U.S. education.

"I call on states to reform their charter rules and lift caps on the number of allowable charter schools, wherever such caps are in place," he said in his speech to the U.S. Hispanic Chamber of Commerce Tuesday.

more...

He also spoke favorably of his doubling the number of charter schools in Illinois.

http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Barack_Obama_Education.htm

<edit>

OBAMA: Sen. McCain and I actually agree on charter schools. I doubled the number of charter schools in Illinois despite some reservations from teachers unions. I think it’s important to foster competition inside the public schools..

<edit>

[Vidar]

33. Damn, I was trying to bash Obama today, but Charter schools are

a disaster.

[seabeyond]

34. my kids did private, i see what they get in public and i have researched our charter in town.

i knew it. i knew the charters are not the be all end all and i totally support what our public schools are doing. if the effort is put forth, by the parent and the child, they get the education regardless, but certainly in public. it is the kids and parents that dont put in the work that looks for something to blame, the schools, teachers, adm....

[izzybeans]

37. Here's the link to the actual report.

http://credo.stanford.edu/

The flip of that headline in the article linked in the OP is: 63% of charter schools perform as well or better than their traditional public school counterparts. Though these findings will burst some bubbles hopefully on the charter thing. Some education folks I know would expect higher favorable ratings for charters.

It's a mixed bag. Though not as damning as the article suggests. It looks like students living in poverty fair better in charters than those who don't, which is the point to most charter schools where I live.