Does it seem that the Iranians are fighting harder and protesting more vociferously

than Americans did after the stolen elections of 2000 and 2004 in the USA? There were no rioting crowds of hundreds of thousands of people in the streets after either of those election farces.
It seems that when it comes to the actual down and dirty part of retaining our rights, the Iranians, and even some of the countries of the former Soviet Union are braver and more willing to risk discomfort, and even life and limb than the comfortable, complacent Americans.

One picture of the amazing crowds protesting the stolen election in Iran....
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

the same media that called us paranoid nuts, remember?

No agenda there!

http://www.nytimes.com /

ETA: They've moved the vid, but here's the pix of the day:

http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/15/pictures-5/?hp

All we got was a mass mailing from the Public Editor telling us they would investigate if a story developed. lol

Dear Ms. Ferrari,

In the first few weeks after the election several readers wrote us about this issue. Mr. Okrent responded to these concerns on his web journal. I include the entry below (see post #35).

http://forums.nytimes.com/top/opinion/readersopinions/f ...

dokrent - 5:40 PM ET November 21, 2004 (#35 of 40)

The Times and Covering Allegations of Election Fraud

Sorry to have been neglecting this spot for so long; I could give you a list of excuses, but none of them
is especially good.

Now, though, my mailbox has begun to overflow with criticisms of The Times for not looking more deeply
into allegations of large-scale vote fraud in Ohio and Florida, a story (if true) that no one can ignore. In some
of these messages, writers say that "now that the theft of the election has been proven ...," The Times must
reveal this to the wider world.

Were the assertion even nearly so, I would do more than recommend that The Times reveal it I’d be
demanding it publicly, loudly and frequently. But the evidence I have seen to date proves nothing, other than
that there was a certain amount of error in certain counties, and an aggressive effort by some partisans in
some areas to challenge some likely Democratic voters. To my knowledge, no one in the Kerry campaign’s
vast on-the-ground operation, or in its armies of well-situated lawyers, has made the argument that what
happened in Ohio (or Florida) could have changed the result of the election. Similar views were explained
in "Vote Fraud Theories, Spread By Blogs, Are Quickly Buried," by Tom Zeller (Nov. 12).

And more, I expect, will be explored and explained in future articles if meaningful allegations can indeed
be established as facts. Both Matthew Purdy, the head of The Times’s investigative unit, and Rick Berke, the
paper’s Washington editor, assure me that reporters will continue to look into the issue. I’m confident that if
they find something, they’ll publish it. A good investigative reporter (much less a whole staff of them) turning
away from a story like this one if true would be like a flower turning away from the sun. Careers are made
by stories that detail massive election fraud.

But: the operative words here are if true. Wishing doesn’t make it so. Although it would probably pain him to
have someone from The Times touting his work, David Corn of The Nation, in a recent column, offers plenty
of reason to examine the allegations before I, or anyone else, should leap to give them credence. You can
find Corn’s column here.

Since then, over seven hundred other readers have raised similar concerns requesting more coverage on this issue. You may be interested in the following articles:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/22/politics/22poll.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/15/politics/15ohio.html

I raised reader concerns with Mr. Okrent and a few days ago he asked me to let you know that he does not believe The Times's coverage of the voting in Ohio is over.

The following articles have since appeared:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/29/politics/29ohio.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/24/national/24vote.html

Mr. Okrent wanted me to write you back asking that you please stay tuned.

Sincerely,
Arthur Bovino
Office of the Public Editor
The New York Times

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

:hi:

ETA: And, DAVID CORN, I'm still pissed at you, too!

We sat down, rolled over and complained for 8 yrs.

I think as Americas we've been able to assume we are 'the best' at many things. But the global media is showing that is a lie. In countries like Iran or the Ukraine when there is a stolen election the people riot. Here (I am guilty like everyone else) we just ignore it. We still don't know what happened on 9/11 either, and no riots over that. We were tricked into war, our ex leaders are war criminals, we are torturing people, our healthcare system leaves almost everyone insecure.

I think its great though. We need a kick in the ass, and if seeing all these countries whose citizens are more passionate, civic and courageous than we are is what it takes, then great. We should be shamed into action.

with a handful of others, to no fucking avail. Hell yeah they're protesting more vociferously than we did. I admire them for it.

put to shame by the protesting in Iran.

Where the hell were the rest of the Americans....!!!???

In another thread, I posted post 2000 election poll info that showed a sizeable majority of Americans accepted Bush as legimate.

place? Why do I feel that those surveys may have been either inaccurate or biased?

Later events buttress the polls, IMO, such as Jeb Bush winning re-election by a landslide in 2002 and Republicans making gains in the House and Senate in that same year. The protests against the outcome of the 2000 election were not that well attended either.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

While they may not have been well reported, they were well attended.

An excerpt from an article at Common Dreams written by Thom Hartmann.

"Where were the protesting Democrats? Other than those in a few of Florida's African American communities and the Congressional Black Caucus, they were largely invisible. If Democrats and progressives had taken to the streets in mass numbers nationwide that November and December, it's entirely probable that the Supreme Court would have backed off and allowed a statewide recount to continue, and Al Gore would have been president for the past four years, instead of George W. Bush."

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1129-26.htm

for my country the way we didn't take to the streets. I hear DU was formed because of it, though.

Maybe it's easier for CNN to cover Tehran than L.A.

Corporatemedia didn't cover anything about the bush coup and Al Gore winning.

And, they didn't cover the protests on Feb 15, 2003 where I and almost a million more in NYC said NO TO WAR among millions of others across the Planet.

and there were probably 3-4K of us there.

in 2009.. Thank you all!

in the US it is far more insidious.

An old Chinese proverb says you can only be a pacifist if your neighbor allows you to be.

Class act. If he had wanted a mess, he could have gotten a mess.

The Iranians have the full support of our media,	EFerrari	Jun-15-09 08:12 PM	#1
Interesting point.....very interesting.	BrklynLiberal	Jun-15-09 08:12 PM	#3
Go look at the NYTs front page.	EFerrari	Jun-15-09 08:21 PM	#7
Corn WAS a disappointment....	BrklynLiberal	Jun-15-09 08:24 PM	#8
Seem? It's easy to see that they are fighting for their rights	goclark	Jun-15-09 08:12 PM	#2
They are definitely putting us to shame	ck4829	Jun-15-09 08:13 PM	#4
Agreed, and we deserve it	Juche	Jun-15-09 09:46 PM	#21
I protested...	liberalmuse	Jun-15-09 08:14 PM	#5
I protested too...and that is why I am so pissed at the humilation of our being	BrklynLiberal	Jun-15-09 08:16 PM	#6
More amazing pictures thanks to NYC_SKP	BrklynLiberal	Jun-15-09 08:29 PM	#9
Not that many thought 2000 and 2004 were stolen	Kaleva	Jun-15-09 08:29 PM	#10
Even tho he lost the popular vote and was put into office by a court that his father had put into	BrklynLiberal	Jun-15-09 08:40 PM	#13
Maybe because they (the polls) don't jive with your view?	Kaleva	Jun-15-09 09:09 PM	#14
My view, and the view of millions of others that were never acknowledged.	BrklynLiberal	Jun-15-09 09:37 PM	#19
The post you link to is about an anti-war protest	Kaleva	Jun-15-09 10:01 PM	#23
Makes me feel bad	Cha	Jun-15-09 08:31 PM	#11
I don't know about you but I was out in a big march in Los Angeles.	EFerrari	Jun-15-09 09:12 PM	#15
After the 2000 election?	Cha	Jun-15-09 09:16 PM	#16
Yeah, after 2000. We might as well have been invisible mimes	EFerrari	Jun-15-09 09:18 PM	#17
Well, now I find out..	Cha	Jun-15-09 09:30 PM	#18
THAT is the truth!!!!	BrklynLiberal	Jun-15-09 09:38 PM	#20
The religious right wing is more out of control in Iran....	AntiFascist	Jun-15-09 08:32 PM	#12
Could it be because Republicans have all the guns?	Speck Tater	Jun-15-09 09:52 PM	#22
Al Gore called for reconciliation	GoesTo11	Jun-15-09 10:09 PM	#24