Microsoft Already Whining about Paying Income Tax...Will Move Jobs Offshore

[lib2DaBone]

June 3 (Bloomberg) -- Microsoft Corp. Chief Executive Officer Steven Ballmer said the world’s largest software company would move some employees offshore if Congress enacts President Barack Obama’s plans to impose higher taxes on U.S. companies’ foreign profits.

“We’re better off taking lots of people and moving them out of the U.S. as opposed to keeping them inside the U.S.”

Barry Bosworth,an economist in Washington at the Brookings Institution research center, said many software companies such as Microsoft have exploited tax and trade rules in the U.S. and other countries to achieve a low overall tax rate.

“It is a little bit ironic that most of our most significant trading partners and partners globally have taken the tack that they’ll reduce corporate tax rates to stimulate economic growth and not raise corporate tax rates,” Thompson said.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aAKluP7yIwJY
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The Bankster/Gangsters won't quit until every American is barefoot...living in mud shack and sitting on a dirt floor.

They have busted the American worker to below minimum wage. They have busted the Unions, forclosed on our houses and are in the process of stealing what remains of our pensions and retirment.

Why not scrap all these bad tax laws.. stop the Kabuki Theater.. reward companies to produce in the U.S.?

Jobs...Jobs...Jobs... there can be NO RECOVERY until jobs are created in America.

[cagesoulman]

1. This is why the middle class gets stuck with the fucking bill

BUY MAC!

[L0oniX]

2. MAC or FreeBSD

[yodoobo]

3. Why do we bother trying to "encourage" companies

to hire in the US?

Why don't we *REQUIRE* companies to hire only in the US. Outright ban, or force through a strict licensing process any overseas hiring.

As long as they have a presence in the US, we could, if we had the will, severely restrict overseas hiring.

I recognize that there is small need or overseas employees i.e. local sales or distributors, so that would be allowed if properly licensed.

This pussyfooting around with "encouragement" and "incentive" is clearly not working.


Microsoft..you want to keep your stock listed, your corporate charter and your US customers? No more foreign hiring.

[goclark]

20. Is MAC doing the same thing?

I'll need a new ccomputer soon and I want to BUY USA

[Statistical]

23. How exactly would you require them?

They would simply move the entire company overseas.

Would you prohibit the importing of Microsoft products into the US then.
Would you prohibit importing ANYTHING into the US?

I think Microsoft is wrong on this but your idea would be complete economic suicide for the US.

Expect within a decade any company worth anything to be gone, the dollar no longer the reverse currency of the world, and US consumers "smuggling" in ipods, copies of windows, and illegal offshore HDTVs.

[yodoobo]

26. Legislation.

"They would simply move the entire company overseas."

That's the same logic that Microsoft is trying to get us to buy.

The US is the biggest market in the world. Companies would be locating HERE in order to get access to our market.

No way would they throw away the biggest market in the world just to save a few dollars in taxes.

[Statistical]

32. You can't legislate everything

Take for example two companies
1) Panasonic makes is Japanese and has about 99% Japanese employment.
2) Vizio is American and has a mix of Korean & American employment.

The panels are produced in Korea. The multi billion dollar fabs are there. Vizio retail, advertising, R&D, customer service, etc is in US.

If you passed your law ("the US economic decline act of 2009") Vizio would be FORCED to only employ Americans.

The cost would put them at a disadvantage to Pansonic and other TV makers. So what would Vizio do?
Reincorporate in Korea and pay 100% Korean taxes.

Now what are you going to prohibit Americans from working for Vizio? Ok they close all American offices and layoff 50,000 people.

People are still buying imported Vizio HDTV. Now what are you going to do. Make that illegal. Ok well here is the news. 100% of HDTV are made outside the US so you just legislated an entire product illegal.

Now that is just one company in one industry. The idea that you can force a company to only hire Americans when the company can just incorporate overseas in dozens of countries happy to have them is just silly.

I lacks even the most basic understanding of economics.

[yodoobo]

40. Well we either take control of the economy or we let Microsoft control it

or Panasonic, or vizio.

I hear and understand your points.

My "law" was two sentences. In reality it would be quite a bit more detailed to adjust for realities.

Nonetheless, Americans are the largest and most lucrative market in the world. That is leverage and leverage we can use to severely punish or restrict companies that wish to only exploit us.

[Auggie]

4. What's ironic is how quickly red, white and blue fades to green.

[dhill926]

7. exactly right............n/t

[Vincardog]

5. there can be NO RECOVERY until WELL PAYING jobs are created in America.

[OhioChick]

8. Bingo. n/t

[Ganja Ninja]

6. Like Bill Gates doesn't have enough money already.

:grr: I wish all these money grubbing assholes would get the fuck out of the country. Go ahead and move. Enjoy the personal tax rate of where ever you go. We'll just tax the crap they want to sell here the rat bastards.

[CTD]

11. This isn't Gates. Gates retired. This is Ballmer, who is an ass.

Gate's actions in recent years have shown him to be quite a decent man. He is generously giving his money and time to worthy causes. I have no complaints with respect to Gates.

Even my friends who work for Microsoft have great disdain for Ballmer.

[unblock]

24. well, there's retired and then there's retired.

i believe he's still chairman of the board and owns something like 19% of the company.

he's not officially involved in the day-to-day operations, but you can bet your butt that he still pays close attention and has huge influence.

more to the point, he's surely had an input on any big public issue like this. if he wanted microsoft to make a patriotic commitment to always stay in the usa, or to say they're proud to be in a position to pay their share of taxes and help fund the governments efforts to help us out of this recession, it would be done.

[Deja Q]

31. How Gates made his money is arguable, and I was around during the OS/2 days...

But he's still far more decent a man than Ballmer will ever be in his dreams. Period.

[OhioChick]

34. Yeah, Gates sure is a sweetheart....

:eyes:

Dark cloud over good works of Gates Foundation

Ebocha, Nigeria — Justice Eta, 14 months old, held out his tiny thumb.

An ink spot certified that he had been immunized against polio and measles, thanks to a vaccination drive supported by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation.

But polio is not the only threat Justice faces. Almost since birth, he has had respiratory trouble. His neighbors call it "the cough." People blame fumes and soot spewing from flames that tower 300 feet into the air over a nearby oil plant. It is owned by the Italian petroleum giant Eni, whose investors include the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation.

Justice squirmed in his mother's arms. His face was beaded with sweat caused either by illness or by heat from the flames that illuminate Ebocha day and night. Ebocha means "city of lights."

The makeshift clinic at a church where Justice Eta was vaccinated and the flares spewing over Ebocha represent a head-on conflict for the Gates Foundation. In a contradiction between its grants and its endowment holdings, a Times investigation has found, the foundation reaps vast financial gains every year from investments that contravene its good works.


In Ebocha, where Justice lives, Dr. Elekwachi Okey, a local physician, says hundreds of flares at oil plants in the Niger Delta have caused an epidemic of bronchitis in adults, and asthma and blurred vision in children. No definitive studies have documented the health effects, but many of the 250 toxic chemicals in the fumes and soot have long been linked to respiratory disease and cancer.

"We're all smokers here," Okey said, "but not with cigarettes."

The oil plants in the region surrounding Ebocha find it cheaper to burn nearly 1 billion cubic feet of gas each day and contribute to global warming than to sell it. They deny the flaring causes sickness. Under pressure from activists, however, Nigeria's high court set a deadline to end flaring by May 2007. The gases would be injected back underground, or trucked and piped out for sale. But authorities expect the flares to burn for years beyond the deadline.

The Gates Foundation has poured $218 million into polio and measles immunization and research worldwide, including in the Niger Delta. At the same time that the foundation is funding inoculations to protect health, The Times found, it has invested $423 million in Eni, Royal Dutch Shell, Exxon Mobil Corp., Chevron Corp. and Total of France — the companies responsible for most of the flares blanketing the delta with pollution, beyond anything permitted in the United States or Europe.

Indeed, local leaders blame oil development for fostering some of the very afflictions that the foundation combats.

Oil workers, for example, and soldiers protecting them are a magnet for prostitution, contributing to a surge in HIV and teenage pregnancy, both targets in the Gates Foundation's efforts to ease the ills of society, especially among the poor. Oil bore holes fill with stagnant water, which is ideal for mosquitoes that spread malaria, one of the diseases the foundation is fighting.

Investigators for Dr. Nonyenim Solomon Enyidah, health commissioner for Rivers State, where Ebocha is located, cite an oil spill clogging rivers as a cause of cholera, another scourge the foundation is battling. The rivers, Enyidah said, "became breeding grounds for all kinds of waterborne diseases."

The bright, sooty gas flares — which contain toxic byproducts such as benzene, mercury and chromium — lower immunity, Enyidah said, and make children such as Justice Eta more susceptible to polio and measles — the diseases that the Gates Foundation has helped to inoculate him against.

Investing for profit

AT the end of 2005, the Gates Foundation endowment stood at $35 billion, making it the largest in the world. Then in June 2006, Warren E. Buffett, the world's second-richest man after Bill Gates, pledged to add about $31 billion in installments from his personal fortune. Not counting tens of billions of dollars more that Gates himself has promised, the total is higher than the gross domestic products of 70% of the world's nations.

Like most philanthropies, the Gates Foundation gives away at least 5% of its worth every year, to avoid paying most taxes. In 2005, it granted nearly $1.4 billion. It awards grants mainly in support of global health initiatives, for efforts to improve public education in the United States, and for social welfare programs in the Pacific Northwest.

It invests the other 95% of its worth. This endowment is managed by Bill Gates Investments, which handles Gates' personal fortune. Monica Harrington, a senior policy officer at the foundation, said the investment managers had one goal: returns "that will allow for the continued funding of foundation programs and grant making." Bill and Melinda Gates require the managers to keep a highly diversified portfolio, but make no specific directives.

By comparing these investments with information from for-profit services that analyze corporate behavior for mutual funds, pension managers, government agencies and other foundations, The Times found that the Gates Foundation has holdings in many companies that have failed tests of social responsibility because of environmental lapses, employment discrimination, disregard for worker rights, or unethical practices.

One of these investment rating services, Calvert Group Ltd., for example, endorses 52 of the largest 100 U.S. companies based on market capitalization, but flags the other 48 for transgressions against social responsibility. Microsoft Corp., which Bill Gates leads as board chairman, is rated highly for its overall business practices, despite its history of antitrust problems.

In addition, The Times found the Gates Foundation endowment had major holdings in:

• Companies ranked among the worst U.S. and Canadian polluters, including ConocoPhillips, Dow Chemical Co. and Tyco International Ltd.

• Many of the world's other major polluters, including companies that own an oil refinery and one that owns a paper mill, which a study shows sicken children while the foundation tries to save their parents from AIDS.

• Pharmaceutical companies that price drugs beyond the reach of AIDS patients the foundation is trying to treat.

Much more: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-gatesx07jan07,0,6827615.story

[Liberal In Texas]

9. We need to do what other countries, like China, do. Impose tariffs.

If American companies want to manufacture off shore, when they bring the products back to sell, slap an import fee on them to encourage making the stuff here. And therefore hiring Americans to do it.

Yes, stuff would be more expensive. Maybe some. But competition, supply, and demand is more of an influence on prices than wages. It might also mean somewhat lower profits but what's wrong with companies making 2% profit a year instead of 80% or whatever number they think is good?

[2Design]

10. goodbye - don't let the door hit you in the xxxxxx n/t

[Johonny]

12. Fine Nationalize the company instead

Don't take crap from CEOs.

[n2doc]

13. Fine. Then require that ALL software used by the Government and Military be designed here

Writing software offshore opens up security risks. I'll bet if the government stopped buying Windows machines M$oft would change their tune in a hurry.

[drm604]

17. This sounds like a great idea.

National security requires that our military and government software be written here.

[sonias]

22. Very good idea!

I like your thinking. Makes good sense. I'm sure other good American companies who don't mind paying their fair share can step up to the plate.

Sonia

[Deja Q]

29. Common sense? I've told that to IT people for years. I finally stopped 6 years ago...

Because everybody wanted to be a MS shop.

Which means MS has a responsibility to their products... which they won't ever honor because they just "delegate" everything unto everyone else.

[jtrockville]

38. Designed here. SUPPORTED here.

* sings *

We're all confused, what's to lose,
You can call this all the United States Blues.

Wave that flag, wave it wide and high.
Summertime done come and gone, my, oh, my.

[Mythsaje]

42. Oooh. Bingo. Now THAT'S a good idea.

We should contact a decent senator or representative with the notion, eh?

[Initech]

14. When did we start putting profit over people?

:mad: :grr: :banghead:

[yodoobo]

27. When has it ever been any other way?

sadly, greed as always triumphed over people

[Deja Q]

33. When did we finally put regulations aside; to remove the rules? "Boys will be boys"?

Greed will always have some headway, but that's why our government put in regulations, checks and balances, and other stop gap initiatives in there in the first place.

No more abuse and definitely no sleazy shortcuts to make a 'cheap' product that's also "inexpensive" (sticker price). Is that too much to ask?

[yodoobo]

39. of course not

Don't mistake recognition of the condition for acceptance of it. :)

[Initech]

37. True but these people are the greediest of the greedy.

[Romulox]

15. Our President "Believes in Free Trade." How is this any different? nt

[femrap]

16. k and r

When the Corporate Gangster talks about how his hands are tied....after all I have to give the 'Shareholders' as much money as I can. I hate that excuse...it says that Corporations are created for one reason...Greedy Shareholders. Aren't the employees shareholders as well?

So are all the Corporations going to move their HQs to Dubai like Halliburton did? They see the rising markets are China, India, etc. so why stay in The Decline of the American Empire? Is that it? They filled the Americans with debt until they exploded and cannot buy anything more...so they move on to another continent? I think that's the deal. Get them all excited about designer labels and Consumerism and fill them with debt.

I think the Auctioneers are moving in and selling us off. Lots of farmland to buy by the Chinese. China bought Hummer which I think is such a hoot. These tiny men with Hummers...my God! LOL.

So years from now, we'll be the cheap place to manufacture things? Sometimes I do think the U.S. will divide into various regional governments.

Of course, Mother Nature will have the last say. She'll kick these rich boys' butts....you can't eat paper money.

To survive this Depression, I believe we need to set up local networks for our food, health, banking, etc. Use geothermal, solar panels...reduce one's dependence on Corporations as much as possible.

I hate corporations.

Pitchforks.

[NYC_SKP]

18. "Hey, Microsoft!!!"

"Fuck Off!"

24" for $1249. (refurbished, same as new) No viruses. Priceless.

[Deja Q]

36. The 24" uses a high quality H-IPS display panel.

:thumbsup:

Better than cheap TN garbage.

[NYC_SKP]

41. And for all the hype about macs being overpriced....

I got a great deal by checking the refurb pages, then using my education discount.

Same exacts specs as new... $1149.00!

It's soooo pretty!

It replaced my 2004 G4 20" but doesn't really look that much bigger on the desk.

:toast:

[Kontora]

44. Microsoft - On the GOP side?

MS should realize they would not be so profitable if weren't all of the court rulings that give them a pass for every time some sued them for being an monopoly. This is a great PR move by MS (/sarcasm).

---
Setting the Agenda.

[TahitiNut]

19. Microsoft should've been busted up YEARS ago.

No company should be permitted to hold the country hostage. None.

:grr:

[Triana]

21. Cry me a damn river. WHILE making them pay taxes, they ought to be forbidden...

..to move jobs offshore.

That is a THREAT, is what that is. A whining child banging its rattle on its high-chair and threatening to burn down the house if it doesn't continue to get its way.

These corprats have escaped paying their FAIR share of taxes for too long. AND all the while they moved jobs offshore while middle-class working Americans paid THEIR taxes FOR them - what few have jobs now.

:nopity:

[yodoobo]

30. exactly

Make it illegal to move jobs offshore.

The only way to escape this would be to completely relocate overseas and entirely abandon the US market.

Given that the US market comprises the bulk of the promises, they'll stay put, pay taxes, AND employee people.

[Jester Messiah]

25. Time to play some chicken

"Okay Ballmer, you already know how much the EU loves you, what with the anti-competition judgements they've laid down on you in the past. But if you want to take your chances there, be our guest. But be aware that if you do so, all Federal Government offices and contractors will be transitioned over to Mac OSX or Linux within the year. What's it gonna be?"

[Deja Q]

35. China is using FreeBSD.

While OS X shares some FreeBSD code, it's still sufficiently different to be protected.

And Macs have a much larger peripheral compatibility base than open source...

Or make one's own *nix variant and keep it owned by the government so any passing freeloader can't look at the code for their own nefarious purposes.

[Deja Q]

28. The self-praising monkey will offshore them anyway. His own quote is a non-sequitur.

How does taxing foreign profits make US LABOR more expensive?

He's talking out of his big hemorrhoid inflated butt and trying to play politics, because he wants to make an excuse, regardless of how flimsy it is. At least his company is consistent; flimsy software is the best thing they do make.

(I do like Office 2007 despite it all, but to put up a list of discrepancies and bugs would waste my time and I'm not doing QC work for them for free. Will O 2010 fix those problems? Not likely. Just more big fat empty features on top of a system that added a nice ribbon on top of the same old fluff (no icon exists to use Word.Basic, so why not remove it? Access's new and changed features render backwards compatible and that's all I'm going to say for now as maybe, just maybe, they really are working on tightening the code, but I doubt it either way...)

[Kievan Rus]

43. Ballmer is a wanker