Question..Is there any way to get California out of this mess?

[Stuart G]

I don't live there and really don't know much about it. Are they really going to have to run with a budget that will destroy the state? Is there some way out? Please inform me. thanks,.

[NightWatcher]

1. write them off as a real big toxic asset?

I guess that only works for big companies

[The_Casual_Observer]

2. They would have to increase property taxes.

They are going to do it, however, they need all this threats in order to soften up the populace. No matter how bad it gets I noticed that the CHP never gets cut.

[Thothmes]

24. Why not raise personal income taxes?

[taught_me_patience]

30. Our marginal income tax rate is 9%

It is damn insane to raise it further.

[Thothmes]

31. Any more insane than letting the state

go down the toilet because it is broke?

[Luminous Animal]

38. We used to have an 11% rate.

We can have one again.

[KamaAina]

25. And the prisons

:grr:

[librechik]

3. Repeal the Tabor laws--insane

sop to no-government crazies.

How can you run a state without revenue?

RWers kept saying it was easy--but mass murder of the poor and disadvantaged is no big deal to them.

Just stop the programs, they said. Then poured themselves another cocktail and laughed about how easy it is to fool the taxpayer.

[Statistical]

45. The idea that CA has no revenue is laughable.

CA has one of the highest revenues per capita in the US.

The problem is that voters can pass unfunded initiatives that are then required elements of the budget.

So CA has tens of billions in spending that they don't need that CANT be cut or changed.

On the other hand not enough revenue for the stuff it really needs.

No unfunded liabilities.

[HopeHoops]

4. The San Andreas fault?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Andreas_Fault

:hide:

[Stuart G]

5. Pretty extreme remedy, that fault...eh? nt

[goclark]

9. Not funny ~ we live here

[HopeHoops]

15. I've got TMI

No offense intended - it was meant to be in bad taste (:hide:)

[lunatica]

19. I'm a Californian and I thought it was funny

Jeez, dark humor is also humor people! I work within a few yards of one the Hayward Fault at UC Berkeley. They're building a whole new football stadium right smack on top of the fault.

[goclark]

35. Good for you. we had a quake in LA two weeks ago, my 90 yr.

old mother with Alzheimer's was screaming in fear.

Sorry, but my memory was not ready for dark humor on that one today.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[smalll]

6. Legalize and tax marijuana, the state's number one cash crop?

It's time.

[Hepburn]

11. It's long past time, IMO. n/t

[KamaAina]

26. Don't bogart that 1040, dude!

:smoke:

[obliviously]

23. I'm all for legalizing weed

in fact I would go much further than that but I don't think that would get them out of financial trouble. I know this is unpopular but responsible oil production would solve their problem.

[slackmaster]

7. They have to cut spending, figure out more efficient ways of providing essential services

Release non-violent prisoners over age 55 who have good behavior. Lay off prison staff and close down some institutions.

Raise the fine for using a hand-held cell phone while driving to $1,000, and enforce it.

Eliminate cushy, useless jobs that are handed out to retired legislators.

Stop giving state university and UC students who are in the country illegally the same tuition pricing that residents get, while legal US residents from out of state pay much higher fees.

Deliver school text books in electronic format to save printing costs.

Things like that.

[aquart]

8. How about they raise taxes?

[slackmaster]

46. Taxes are already the highest in the nation

They should be cut, so people have more money to spend.

[Xithras]

16. So instead of giving students $80 books...

You want to hand them $1000 laptops instead?

[XemaSab]

20. Since when to schools spend money on textbooks?

:shrug::hide:

[Luminous Animal]

43. How rightwing of you.

A lot of vague anti-government platitudes which got us into the fucking mess in the first place.

They have to cut spending, figure out more efficient ways of providing essential services

Which spending, which services?

Raise the fine for using a hand-held cell phone while driving to $1,000, and enforce it.

And hire more cops to enforce it and clog up our court system even more!

Eliminate cushy, useless jobs that are handed out to retired legislators.

Which cushy useless jobs?

Stop giving state university and UC students who are in the country illegally the same tuition pricing that residents get, while legal US residents from out of state pay much higher fees.

Just how many of these "illegal" residents are accessing in-state tuition and how much will it save the state. Legal residents will always pay more. That is the way it has been and always will be.

Deliver school text books in electronic format to save printing costs.

You will also have to give students the means with which to access that electronic format. And how much less do you think the publishing companies will charge the state for electronic content? I suspect they won't give us much of a break. Text book publishers are running a racket.

[slackmaster]

47. The mess we are in was caused by reckless spending

There is plenty of money in this state. The problem is we have a legislature that pisses away more than they take in.

[sandyj999]

10. Sorry we have our own problems. n/t

[NoSheep]

12. legalize pot.

[1]

13. state tax on cellphone usage...

a few pennies per call would fix their problems immediately.

[JuniperLea]

14. CA and MI are only the beginning...

I expect many more state budgets to faulter.

[tularetom]

17. Here's a pictorial clue

[KansDem]

18. Get rid of Prop. 13

Correct me if I'm incorrect, but home owners who bought before 1979 are paying taxes based on 1977 assessments. Their homes have gone up in value 10 times or so, but they're still paying taxes on the original price.

On edit: Howard Jarvis was an asshole...

[arbusto_baboso]

21. YES! Get rid of Prop 13 today, California's budget woes are mostly solved tomorrow.

I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking this.

And yes, I'm sure if there is a Hell, Howard Jarvis is burning there.

[KansDem]

22. I'm a transplanted Californian who came to Kansas for grad school

I left in 1979 when Prop. 13 appeared on the ballot.

I didn't think it was a good idea then, and I still don't.

[katanalori]

32. not so easy.....

Say you are elderly and on fixed income. You purchased your home in 1956. Property tax is based on price your paid (as per prop 13). If your property tax is raised (even if still 1% of new assessed value) you would never be able to afford to stay in your home. Example: You paid $30,000, so your property tax is $300 per year.
Current value of that house is now $450,000 (down from $675,000 at peak) - your taxes would now be $4500 per year. Where will seniors get that money? Unemployment is up, people barely hanging on to homes as it is.
I have a home that is worth $450,000 but taxes are 1% of what I paid (approx. $2000 a year based on $200,000 sales price). So, if they suddenly have me pay 1% of current value, I must come up with $4500 a year. How? No income here for over one year. Everyone wants to raise poperty taxes, but that will lead to MORE forclosures. And we already have a supply of foreclosures to last for over 3 years. Our sales tax is second highest in the Union. CA also contributes more tax $ to federal govt. than most States.
I think we will be fine in the long run. It will be like the Gold Rush five years from now I think. Green firms will eventually come to CA as it becomes more affordable to live and work here - we have the weather and the ocean. We just have to make it through this somehow. They are closing 80% of our public parks, which is heart-breaking.
I plan to wait it out barring a major earthquake.
BTW, the problem is the INCREASED SPENDING here - totally out of control. We desperately need a budget overhaul - NOT a repeal of prop. 13.

[arbusto_baboso]

34. Easy. You use a sliding scale like you do for income tax.

In the example you cite, the senior homeowner is on a fixed income. Well, you keep the main provisions of Prop 13 for those with lower incomes, and gradually increase the property tax burden as you go up the income ladder. So, those with dividend income and huge inmherited estates would not be able to get away with paying 1 or 2 thousand dollars a year in property tax each year as they currently do.

Also, the problem is NOT runaway spending. Think about it; before Reagan was governor, we had FREE public higher education. We're not spending on that anymore. There are a lOT of things we're not spending on anymore, yet we get consistently less. The problem is that Reagan (as president) mandated all sorts of programs for the states, but then didn't follow thru on providing federal funds for those programs. It's all part of the reich wing master plan to bankrupt all levels of government in this country.

[Xithras]

27. A few serious ways to do it.

#1, implement a "Debt Tax", and make everyone of voting age pay it. No deductions, no exceptions. One of the little-discussed problems that our state has is that our VOTERS love to pass bond measures that pay for everything from fixing schools to studying stem cells and building high speed rail systems. These bonds must be repaid out of the general fund. I propose we remove these bonds from the general fund and pay for them entirely through a special tax. If voters want to pass more bonds, that tax goes up to cover it. California voters have approved more than $120 billion in bond debt over the past couple of decades, and we spend several billion a year paying it back. Getting that debt out of the general budget would free up billions in annual revenue for other state programs.

#2, Revisit the states property tax system. I don't want to see a return to the wild days of pre-Prop 13 when little old ladies were being driven from their homes by skyrocketing taxes, but our current system is broken. In most years, the maximum allowable tax increase on a property doesn't even equal the inflation rate, so the state falls ever further behind. At a minimum, the rate of increase needs to equal inflation. Taxation also needs to be reindexed to the actual value of the property (not the value at the time you bought it), with reasonable buffers to implement any inflationary increases over a number of years (example: A home bought for $100,000 has an annual property tax of $1,000 right now, and that rate can only increase by $20 a year...seriously. If the home value jumps to $200,000 after 5 years, it SHOULD be taxed the new $2,000 annual amount, but the increase can be phased in over 10 years
#3, Push local resources back to local governments. A lot of our "State Parks" were county or regional parks up until the 1970's, when the counties foisted them off onto the state to save money. State taxpayers today pay for a lot of state parks that are really only used by locals, many of which have only marginal environmental value.

#4, Crack down on illegal employment practices. One of the side effects of having a huge number of undocumented residents is that we have a lot of employers paying cash and skipping payroll taxes. The state has been hesitant to crack down on this because it might be percieved as an attack on illegal immigrants, but it HAS to happen. Businesses that operate within the law are being economically undercut by businesses that don't.

#5, Consolidate state offices and departments. There's a lot of waste in the current structure of our government. Carb, CalEPA, the Coastal Commission, and DFG could easily be consolidated into a single department to manage natural resources, as an example. There's a huge amount of redundancy in these departments, and they could be consolidated without reducing services.

The bigest piece needed is to fix our election process though. Our current gerrymandered districts bring in extremists on both sides of the aisle who aren't willing to compromise. Taxes need to go up, and spending needs to go down. California government is dysfunctional in that neither party is willing to agree to both of those needs.

[customerserviceguy]

28. Amend the Constitution

so that a simple majority cannot merely vote themselves freebies or tax breaks, while it takes a supermajority to raise taxes to pay for them.

That's pretty much how California got into this situation.

[taught_me_patience]

29. Freeze government pensions where they are

and eliminate it for new employees. They can enroll in 401k's like the rest of the private sector.

http://www.californiapensionreform.com/calpers/

this won't be enough but is a good start.

[shanti]

36. leave the goddam state workers alone!

:grr:

[jazzjunkysue]

33. Tax the rich. Next question.

[Orrex]

40. Seriously

Find me a fiscal problem currently facing this country that couldn't be solved exactly the same way.

[kenny blankenship]

37. Sell it to China?

I hear they're buying stuff these days. Sooner or later they're going to demand hard assets in exchange for propping up our govt.

[BlooInBloo]

39. No reasonable way without increasing revenue.

[Orrex]

41. Reelect Gray Davis!

[JVS]

42. They will have to sell naming rights of cities to investment banks

San Francisco will now be known as Citibank. LA will be AIG. California itself will be renamed Goldman Sachs.

It's either do this or become another Djibouti.