May I just say something about Shocking the Conscience?

[Duer 157099]

This, apparently, is the language that is used to determine if some sort of treatment is torture--Does it "Shock the conscience?"

Does everybody here realize (as I am sure Cheney does) that the more we discuss this (ie, what constitutes torture), the more familiar we become with the topic, so that eventually, it will cease to "shock the conscience" in the way that it might have before this incredibly absurb public discussion (and I mean everything the media is doing towards this end). The TV show "24" has pretty much done the same thing.

This became so clear to me when I was reading the "torture memos" and came upon what was confusing to me at the time, which was that the fact that these (torture) techniques were used, on volunteers, in SERE training, pretty much rendered them "non-shocking" to the conscience! Do you get that? How do we make something "non-shocking" to the conscience? Why, we incorporate it into the training that our own troops get! This, de facto, renders it non-shocking!

excerpt from page 38 of 5/30/05 Bradbury "torture memo":

"But we can draw at least one conclusion from the existence of SERE training. Use of the techniques ... cannot be considered to be categorically inconsistent with 'traditional executive behavior' and 'contemporary practice' regardless of context. It follows that use of these techniques will not shock the conscience in at least some circumstances."

(emphasis added)

I aver that the widespread and constant discussion about the minutia of torture, is having the same effect on the populace, as I'm sure it was intended.

One wonders whether this also was the original intent of the SERE training?

[havocmom]

1. Interesting point - good catch

K & R

[patrice]

2. Jesse Ventura did SERE training and he is still very definitely shocked by water-boarding.

Maybe that's just the difference between talking about it and having actually experienced it.