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Max Baucus is a TRAITOR to Democratic values... Every Democrat who opposes a public option (Ben....

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Faryn Balyncd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 12:04 AM
Original message
Max Baucus is a TRAITOR to Democratic values... Every Democrat who opposes a public option (Ben....
Edited on Sun May-10-09 12:19 AM by Faryn Balyncd





....Nelson, Max Baucus, Chuck Schumer, Arlen Specter, even Ron Wyden, and every other Democrat who genuflects before corporate power, has betrayed Democratic values.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


We now have the fight of our lives to keep the public option from being stripped out of health reform.


But we must prevail.


That may mean DEFEATING a pseudo-"reform" bill that may attempt to pass corporate welfare in the guise of healthcare reform.


But any bill that lacks a public option MUST BE DEFEATED!!!!!!!










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bkkyosemite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
1. Agreed we must say so from sea to shining sea. We must speak up.
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youngharry Donating Member (231 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 02:09 AM
Response to Reply #1
24. Healthcare
Any Democrat that votes against Singlepayer healthcare needs to be told that any parent who sees his child die for lack of healthcare insurance would probably go after them. I'm sure there are thousands of parents out there that have no healthcare protection for their family. I would hate to be Baucus or any other person who gets his healthcare free from the taxpayers and then votes against the rest of the American people getting affordable care, better look over their shoulder continually.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
2. Yeah, let's party like it's 1994
All or nothing, that will show the insurance companies when nothing changes.

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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. There's nothing that Baucus and Nelson support that IS a change
If it stays private, it stays bad.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. Right,
because everyone is going to love whatever Baucus comes up with that is public/private?

Who's going to decide that we might as well keep what we have instead of any change?

Why can't people fight for the best plan without declaring all or nothing?



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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. What do you mean by "because everyone is going to love whatever Baucus comes up with"?
Did you mean to write "because nobody will love whatever Baucus comes up with"?

You lost me on that line.

The fact remains...no private solution can be progressive or inclusive. No half-measure now can be built on later.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #8
28. I HAVE decided.
I will NOT support any Health Care "Reform" that channels Tax Payer Dollars to the Health Insurance Industry (subsidies to buy For Profit Health Insurance). This will be a huge step in the wrong direction that will only make the For Profit Health Insurance Industry STRONGER and reduce the amount of HealthCare/tax dollar.

The "Centrist" Democrats will undoubtedly offer a lesser of two evils Corporate Welfare Plan, and they will undoubtedly try to sell it to America......just as you did in your post.


It is time to draw a line in the sand.
Americans do NOT have to settle for less just because the "Centrist" Democrats demand a cut for their Corporate Sponsors.

Every other developed country in the World has managed to institute a Health Care System where Health Care is a Government Guaranteed RIGHT.
Americans do NOT have to settle for less.
This is NOT too hard for America.
YES WE Can!
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Faryn Balyncd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. Any bill that gives trillions to insurance corporations while still leaving Americans without .....


.....affordable healthcare will be much worse than 1994.


The goal is not to pass a bill that is called "reform" even if it's effect is to aggravate the problem


We need to keep our eyes on the prize....... real reform.


And the spokesmen for real reform are not even at the table.


Kissing corporate ass got the Republicans rejected by the American people, and if we don't learn from that, it will get us the same result.







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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. Oh, please.
Fight for the best plan and stop with the all or nothing arguments. You seem to think that any public option is an elixir.



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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Any public option would have to be more inclusive and progressive than a private option
As long as profit is part of it, the public gets screwed. Look at your average "chain store" hospital if you don't believe me.
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Faryn Balyncd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #9
22. Calling what I said "All or nothing" is total bullshit......
Edited on Sun May-10-09 01:09 AM by Faryn Balyncd




Nobody said anything about "all or nothing".

Like most of the American people, I favor a Single Payer "Medicare-for-All" plan.

But I am NOT advocating the defeat any plan that is not Single Payer.

Even though a mixed plan which includes a public option would not offer much of the savings of Single Payer, and would certainly be NO panacea (nor, as you phrased it, an "elixir"), I would support such a mixed plan because it would represent an improvement over the present, and it would not sabotage future further improvements. This is anything but an "All or nothing" approach, (no matter how many times you want to repeat the chant.)

What I have opposed is a plan that dresses up corporate welfare as "reform", that further entrenches and enriches the insurance industry rather than taking on the insurance industry which is a huge amount of the problem.

But rather than dealing with these issues, you choose to mischaracterize my statements as advocating an "All or Nothing" approach.

Falsely accusing Democrats who favor real reform (and oppose unaffordable corporate give-aways that have been labeled "reform" by the very corporate interests that are the root of the problem) as being for "All or nothing" is not only a lie, it's a cheap shot.




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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 02:10 AM
Response to Reply #9
25. That attitude will have us accept the best of two corporate plans
which means no matter which one we choose, corporations are still sucking us dry every time we get sick or develop a disability.

That's a major part of the problem we're trying to solve. We can't do that if people take your approach and happily accept whatever bills the lobbyists toss on the table. x(

We NEED to fight for better options or we won't ever get them.

If you settle for shit that's all they'll give you.
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druidity33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #9
31. you sicken me... nt.
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #2
15. Oh, and in 1994 it was the CONSERVATIVE wing of the party that killed healthcare reform
If all DLC Dems had backed the plan of our DLC Democratic president, the plan would have passed. There's no way in hell you can blame people to Clinton's left on that one. Progressives were out in the cold in the Clinton administration from the day it took office.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #2
18. Succinct! nt
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 06:34 AM
Response to Reply #2
27. Clinton shitcanned single payer right out of the gate.
You'll have to find someone else to blame. How about Republicans?

In 1993 conservative pundit Irving Kristol advised the GOP that the Clinton proposal "should not be amended; it should be erased," because "it will revive the reputation of the party that spends and regulates, the Democrats, as the generous protector of middle-class interests.

In 2008, the Cato Institute has stated that blocking Obama's health plan is key to the GOP's survival. If Obama succeeds in passing health care, then people who might have been conservatives will like it, and will be more likely to vote for the people who passed it.
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OmahaBlueDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 12:12 AM
Response to Original message
3. My problem isn't that they oppose a public solution: it's that they won't even discuss it
Edited on Sun May-10-09 12:12 AM by OmahaBlueDog
If, after a fair hearing, all sides were to agree on a private, or private/public solution, so be it. But you have to hear all sides, and get all of the facts on the table. Their failure to perform due dilligence is shameful.

Frankly, President Obama needs to call Joe Biden, Rahm Emmanuel, Tim Kaine, Gov. Sebelius, Dr. Dean, and all of the Democratic Senators (and Bernie Sanders & Joe Lieberman). Sit'em all down in the East Room, close the doors, and then twist arms until the recalcitrant see the light. This needs to happen on Monday.
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DireStrike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 12:14 AM
Response to Original message
5. 1) I agree. 2) My shoulder-grammar-nazi says it's "genuflect"
"genuflexes" might be arguable-for. But I think you heard it wrong or didn't know how to conjugate the word. The base is genuflect. A person can genuflect, and when he genuflects, he becomes a genuflector.
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Faryn Balyncd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Thanks.


edited: genuflexes --> genuflects


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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 12:31 AM
Response to Original message
10. I agree .... why isn't our president up there in the bully pulpit calling for it?
He demanded the Congress give him a credit card bill by memorial day.

Why not that same thing for USPHC?
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pyro858 Donating Member (120 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 12:31 AM
Response to Original message
12. The health industry owns Baucus
Check his campaign contributions and baucus is an open book. He does not represent americans. Hopefully, montanans can get rid of this joker next election.
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avaistheone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #12
29. Many other Dems are also owned by the health insurance industry
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 12:34 AM
Response to Original message
14. I agree -- With no public option it will be next to worthless.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 12:38 AM
Response to Original message
16. Only 21 of 59 Senate Democrats support the public option for health care at this point.
That's all...not nearly enough.

They are not about to give us a public option unless we fight, much less single payer.

21 of 59 Senators support public option

And even then it is not in the form we would like. It is one that caters to insurance companies.

:shrug:
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. We need something like a Million Patient March
We should fill the streets of D.C. with people on gurneys and stretchers. Clang thousands of bedpans.

Have a rally at the Capitol steps where the survivors of those who died because their insurers wouldn't authorize treatments would speak.

Enough politeness. Let's make them feel it, Alinsky-style.

Things like that are needed to force the issue.

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avaistheone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #17
30. You are so right.!
There really needs to be a march on Washington that takes D.C.'s and the country's breath away.

Time for some serious consciousness raising.

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. Just because a Senator isn't on that list means nothing. Schumer is on it, but what does that mean?
Schumer Says Insurers Likes The So-Called Public Option

People are getting caught up in semantics, not all public options are equal.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. That is what I said.
That they do not support what we want them to do.

They do not care what we think...they are beholden to others.

It is time to flat out say it.

I said that even those don't support what we think of as a public option.

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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 12:48 AM
Response to Original message
20. K
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Yukari Yakumo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 01:47 AM
Response to Original message
23. uh huh... BTW
Can you tell me who wrote the SCHIP bill?
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Oldenuff Donating Member (442 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 02:14 AM
Response to Original message
26. Baucus neds to go.........
after seeing him in the health care protest video,I immediately was offended by his "High Hat" attitude.I'd be willing to relocate to Montana to vote him out of office.


I'd say that I was surprised to hear that Wyden was opposed as well,but somehow I'm not really surprised.I think he has been in office for so long that he thinks he has become invincible.Maybe Oregonians ought to give him some "vacation time".

Sonsabitches think they rule the world.
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