Bacteria Not Flu Killed Most In 1918 ~ Mother Jones

[mzmolly]

A new study in Emerging Infectious Diseases concludes that bacteria not influenza killed most people in the 1918 flu epidemic. The lesson: stock up on antibiotics for the next flu pandemic—bird flu, horse flu, or otherwise.

New Scientist reports that researchers sifted through first-hand accounts, medical records, and infection patterns from 1918 and 1919.

They found that bacterial pneumonia piggybacked on surprisingly mild flu cases. And the victims didn't die fast. A supervirus would have likely killed them in three days.

Instead, most people lasted more than a week and some survived two weeks—classic hallmarks of pneumonia.

More at link ~ http://www.motherjones.com/blue-marble/2008/08/bacteria-not-flu-killed-most-1918">MOTHER JONES and http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn14458-bacteria-were-the-real-killers-in-1918-flu-pandemic.html?DCMP=ILC-hmts&nsref=news6_head_dn14458">NEW SCIENTIST

An interesting perspective I thought worth sharing, especially when coupled with this:

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/128450.php">Friendly Bacteria Fight Hospital Pneumonia As Well As Antiseptic

In a small pilot study, scientists in Sweden found that probiotic or so called "friendly" bacteria were just as effective as an antiseptic at reducing pathogenic bacteria that can cause pneumonia in hospital patients on ventilators.

The study was led by Dr Bengt Klarin from the University Hospital in Lund, Sweden and is published this week in the BioMed Central open access journal Critical Care.

The researchers found that the "friendly" probiotic bacterium, Lactobacillus plantarum 299 (Lp299), which is in saliva and also common in fermented foods like pickles and sauerkraut, can out-compete dangerous bacteria that cause respiratory illnesses like pneumonia in patients who are on ventilators.

A solution of friendly bacteria was just as effective at keeping down levels of pathogenic bacteria that commonly cause ventilator-associated pneumonia (VAP) as a solution of normal antiseptic, they said in a press statement.

Food for thought.

[aquart]

1. Eat pickles? That's how we save ourselves? Eat pickles?

I have some in the fridge.

[mzmolly]

4. Gawd only knows!

;)

[Xithras]

6. No, rub them all over your countertops

This is saying that the probiotic bacteria are just as effective at killing surface pathogens as chemical antiseptics. Rubbing pickles in wounds might be beneficial too.

And as an added bonus, you'll no longer have issues with people invading your personal space :)

[Warpy]

9. Unfortunately, flu virus lives in nasal passages, the throat

and the lungs, not in the GI tract.

Those friendly bugs don't do much good when they're sliding past the throat quickly on the way to your stomach.

[csziggy]

14. OK, so we snort pickle juice from home made pickles. Yeah, that should work.

[izquierdista]

12. Wrong

Sorry to disappoint you, but if you live in America, your pickles and sauerkraut are most likely packed in sterile glass jars or in polymer lined metal cans, with any bacteria, beneficial or otherwise eradicated from the package. In Sweden, if it is like other places in Europe I have seen, you can buy your pickles and sauerkraut from a barrel in its original pickling liquor, with the fermentation bacteria. Pasteurization and sterilization is just another consequence of having food trucked hundreds of miles from factory to consumer.

[Matariki]

16. My local market sells pickled asian vegetable in sealed plastic bags

wonder if that kills the friendly bacteria? At any rate, it's tasty stuff.

[izquierdista]

17. Maybe not

If it is imported, or locally made at the market, it could still have live cultures. However, if it comes from a USDA inspected factory, bacteria getting through is not supposed to happen (and the news is shouted out when it does). Yogurt is one of the few packaged products in America that actually has live cultures.

[Matariki]

13. That's interesting. Years ago a friend told me about the health benefits of pickled food

and particular cuisines that regularly have fermented food in every meal, like Japanese diets for instance.

[Javaman]

2. pickles and sauerkraut

Finally! I'm actually ahead of the game!! LOL my wife and I make our own fermented foods. :)

[mzmolly]

5. Cool.

:9

I wonder about wine?

[Javaman]

15. LOL we started a grape vine in the yard this year. hopefully...

we will be getting drunk this time next year. LOL

[SoCalDem]

3. Comparing modern "outbreaks" with previous ones, is not always fruitful

We know more now, and we have better meds.. I remember seeing a documentary about yellow fever and was amazed when they showed old footage about how the hospital bed legs were actually placed in buckets of water..to prevent insects from getting into the beds..but they actually became breeding grounds for more mosquitos....right in the hospitals :eyes:

[Mojorabbit]

7. The weird thing is that is not what is killing

people with H5N1. They are dying of organ failure and viral pneumonia. Not bacterial.

[mzmolly]

10. Interesting.

And perhaps unfortunate under the circumstances?

[Inuca]

8. About friendly bacteria

Some 30 years ago, my father almost died from a very bad case of pneumonia following a short coma. Strong antibiotics did not seem to make a difference and most doctors had given up on him. One doctor though asked that he be taken out of the antiseptic ICU and into the hospital courtyard for a short period of time. A day or two later the infection that had filled his lungs started receding and he got better. Incidentally, he was in his low 70s at the time, he lived into his high 90s.

[hedgehog]

11. Not wanting to get into dueling web sites, I think it is correct to say that some people died within

72 hours directly from the flu virus and others lingered to be taken down weeks later by opportunistic infection. Both types of patients died from pneumonia, but all that means is that their lungs were filled with fluid.

There is some controversy, but many scientists suggest that the influenza virus can cause neurological damage. It's been suggested that Wilson's strokes were actually lingering damage from the flu. Oliver Sachs attributes the condition of his patients in Awakenings to the 1918 flu.

[mzmolly]

18. Interesting. I've also read that prenatal influenza exposure can

result in schizophrenia in vulnerable off spring?

http://www.schizophrenia.com/sznews/archives/000458.html

The study indicated that Flu during the first trimester of pregnancy increased risk of developing schizophrenia in the child by approx. 700%, while flu during the third trimester increased schizophrenia risk for the child by 300%.

Makes me wonder if the flu jab during pregnancy is wise or not? For example, might the viral component in the vax trigger like issues? Or might it prevent such an occurrence? Though, that's another discussion. ;)

[hedgehog]

20. I've often wondered if Rosemary Kennedy's problems stemmed from pre-natal

exposure to the 1918 flu. Even if it was only a matter of her mother having a high fever for several days.

[Michigan-Arizona]

19. Cayenne pepper

In 2000 my husband had a cough round the clock that he could not get rid of. He went to the doctor's no less than 5 time's, seen 3 different one's in the same office, they did x-ray's, ton's of meds. that would maybe help slightly in about 10 day's but would start all over again. Heard a doc on the radio one night say to make up a mixture of 1 gallon of distilled water, 3/4 of a bottle of PURE maple syrup( can be store brand), the juice of 6 FRESH lemon's, & about 2 teas. of Cayenne Pepper( has to burn going down) to know if it's hot enough. he drank maybe a gallon & a half(he was desperate to try anything at this point) & it stopped it completely. The doc on the radio said people were getting this cough was from bacteria.

[hedgehog]

21. Sounds like he may have had a brush with whooping cough.

The vaccine is not 100% effective, so if any is in circulation in the community , people can catch it despite being immunized.

[mainer]

22. Kim chee. That's what I've heard is supposed to be better!

Weird as it seems. The combo of vinegar and chili peppers.