Question for some scientists about Baxter Pharmaceutical. 18 countries get contaminated flu shots

[mirrera]

with human flu mixed with live bird flu. Scientifically speaking, if some people were injected with this, and then picked up the other flus could this account for the "new" combination we are seeing? They have a plant in Mexico, they have shown that they will hide the truth as they did in 2005 with the HIV contaminated injectable for hemophiliacs.

Why does everyone assume that they really did re-call all the contaminated shots, especially as this pandemic started around the same time. The news reports will go so far as to say that IF the two flus had mixed it could have caused a pandemic, now 2-3 months later we almost do, and no one is asking could it have happened and we have a cover their ass moment?

Could there have been contamination going on before this incident came to light? Baxter let contaminated injectables continue being shipped to Spain and France AFTER the FDA told them to halt distribution in the USA. They have opportunity and motive, why are they above suspicion? I really want a scientific answer for why this is so impossible that no one will entertain the question.

I wish a scientist would read the story and tell me why this is not a probable cause. Especially as people died in Mexico but not here. There has been no cohesive story about why, so in my mind the obvious question is —Was there an outside source of the virus that has then been diluted as it was transmitted person to person?

Here is the story in the Toronto Sun:http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2009/02/27/8560781.html



(ignore the comments that lead to sites that get carried away by sourcing sites that always get thrown in the dungeon. The story is true, the conspiracy theories are just speculation and not actual translations from the czech papers. I translated them and they are NOT suspicious—I wish they were, but they are not.)

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. They have a motive?

There's no evidence that the mixed viruses ever mutated (pretty hard without infecting an organism) and furthermore, the strains Baxter mixed are not related to the strain of recent interest.

This is just the sort of crap that should be moved to the dungeon. Or just plain deleted.

[mirrera]

3. This is crap? The strains are not related? Excuse me? This is your scientific response?

I guess I will hope for better. Oh and motive would be covering one's ass, protecting one's lucrative contracts and stellar reputation, and ummmm lets see... oh yeah! Money! But no one has ever done anything wrong for those reasons.
:sarcasm:

There was no need for a rude response to a very serious question.

Also I was very careful to quote a Canadian newspaper that is reporting on a story that was reported in Czech newspapers and Indian newspapers. There are lots of blogs forming opinions on this story that make it easier for people like you to dismiss the story, but the story remains.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

4. Yes, it's absolute crap.

Baxters mess up was H5N1, this "swine" flu is H1N1.

Yes, "it's crap" is my scientific response. And I've no doubt that any scientist wouldn't agree.

"There was no need for a rude response to a very serious question."

I disagree that the question was serious, and that the response wasn't needed.

"Oh and motive would be covering one's ass, protecting one's lucrative contracts and stellar reputation, and ummmm lets see... oh yeah! Money! But no one has ever done anything wrong for those reasons.
:sarcasm:"

And what motive would they have for injecting Mexicans with some super scifi flu in the first place?

[mirrera]

6. You are too rude for words.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

7. Don't post nonsense then ask for an opinion if you don't want it challenged.

[muriel_volestrangler]

8. But correct, nonetheless (nt)

[Junkdrawer]

2. The mixed combination arose in 1998 at a factory pig farm...

...

In August 1998, however, a barking cough resounded throughout a North Carolina pig factory in which all the thousands of breeding sows fell ill. A new swine flu virus was discovered on that factory farm, a human-pig hybrid virus that had picked up three human flu genes. By the end of that year, the virus acquired two gene segments from bird flu viruses as well, becoming a never-before-described triple reassortment virus—a hybrid of a human virus, a pig virus, and a bird virus—that triggered outbreaks in Texas, Minnesota, and Iowa.

...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5569987&mesg_id=5569987

Add to that the fact that Patient 0 was a neighbor of a pig farm imported from the US infected farms and all the mystery is gone.

[mirrera]

5. I have been reading about that as well, but I would like a scientist to explain

how the mixture came together. I heard it was two varieties of swine plus avian plus human. Is it not possible that Baxter mixed the avian and person together with swine from austria which is where this mix-up happened. It gets shipped to there plant in Mexico where it is released or injected as contaminated flu shots and then the factory farm provides the other swine. I am not saying this was done on purpose, even though it certainly could be, but maybe these contaminated flu shots have happened before. That is my question. Could it have happened?

[northernlights]

10. it is not possible because

Baxter's mixup involved the very virulent H5N1 avian virus, whereas this swine flu mix did not include the H5N1 avian virus. This mix included an *American* avian virus -- a different (and far less virulent) strain of avian virus.

[mirrera]

11. Thank You! I feel much better.

It is hard as a non-scientist to understand. I have been researching for 4 days trying to find one news source in this country talking about it. The very silence is what has scared me. I am amazed by the hostility from asking a serious question. It is not my fault that others who are not liked also asked the same question.

[ChickMagic]

9. Just because they were mixed together

doesn't mean there was reassortment. It's not good, but I don't think there is any evidence of recombination.

[mirrera]

12. Thank you. I wish we could be sure that Baxter hasn't hidden other mistakes as they have done before

I am shocked that no one is questioning their competence in handling the vaccine that will be sure to come. I am glad to know that it is a different strain, I thought all Avian flu was the same.