Swine Flu Infection Symptoms and Vitamin D -- Can it help? - x

[tiptoe]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=222&topic_id=49922&mesg_id=58604 -x

 

[LeftyMom]

1. Compulsive Quackery Disorder and Vitamin D-- Can it help?

Do you work for a vitamin company or are you just somebody who is obsessed and also blessed with abundant free time to promote your particular quack hypothesis?

[MADem]

2. Yeah--and you can get plenty of it from the SUN--for FREE!! Five minutes outside will do it! nt

[LeftyMom]

3. It's a shame they don't get any sun in Mexico. nt

[MADem]

4. Heh heh...nt

[tiptoe]

9. Dr Eric Madrid's response to the same mindless comment (April 28):

 

actually, Mexico city has high air pollution/ozone which filters UVB...not so far fetched.

http://vitamind-prescription.com/2009/04/26/swine-flu-prevention-and-treatment-can-vitamin-d-help/#comment-205

Mexico City — an example of a city with "lots of sun" and, yet, one whose denizens are vulnerable to Vitamin D Deficiency (...and rickets...and influenza infections, etc.)

Los Angeles ? "severe" ozone [O₃] problem, too. (see the news)

"It was...pointed out that ozone [O₃] absorbs UVB rays used in the synthesis of vitamin D.  Dr. Specker said cases of rickets appear to be increasing in Mexico City, perhaps as a result of the high concentration of ozone in the city."

http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:SIjL3S17BsgJ:www.cdc.gov/nccdphp/dnpa/nutrition/pdf/Vitamin_D_Expert_Panel_Meeting.pdf+%2B%22Ozone%22+%2B%22Vitamin+D+Deficiency%22+%2B%22Mexico+City%22&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

 

[LeftyMom]

14. Mexico City is above 7,000 ft. Pollution or no, it probably gets more UV than wherever you live.

Ever got a sunburn at high elevation? I've got absolutely fried without meaning to at Lake Tahoe, and it's more than 1,000 ft lower than Mexico City.

High altitude equals thin air and less filtering equals more UV. The effects of pollution will be inconstant and depend on the weather, but they will be less pronounced than the effects of that level of altitude.

[tiptoe]

15. Urban tropospheric ozone -- rated "Severe" in MC -- absorbs UV-B radiation. Another example:

Urban Tropospheric Ozone Increases the Prevalence of Vitamin D Deficiency among Belgian Postmenopausal Women with Outdoor Activities during Summer

Elevation would be a non-factor, whenever troposheric ozone (of a "SEVERE" degree in Mexico City) intercedes to absorb UV-B.

i.e. not "Moderate", not "Heavy"

 

[LeftyMom]

21. So now you're an expert in medicine and atmospheric conditions?

Give it a rest, Doctor Google.

[Dorian Gray]

10. Good point.

[tiptoe]

12. not a "good point" -- see #9: lower-atmosphere ozone absorbs UVB, needed for Vitamin D synthesis. nt

[Dorian Gray]

19. Is that true in the rest of Mexico?

Because my cousin in law just got back from Cancun, and she has the flu. (Being tested by CDC to see if it is the swine or not.)

Last I looked, there is plenty of sunshine in Cancun.

[tiptoe]

20. "Air pollution in Mexico varies among cities". Mexico City is unique, geographically, but the issue

of Vitamin D sufficiency would not be reducible merely to "plenty of sunshine in Cancun". A visitor/tourist's serum 25(OH)D level may be low to begin with, prior to "immersion" in sunny Cancun, and, moreover, if photochemical UVB-blocking sunscreens are used while there, no amount of daily sun exposure would yield significant Vitamin D stimulus benefit.

First

Air Pollution in Mexico

On a worldwide level, across the border from California, the air quality in Mexico is some of the worst this world has seen. Air pollution in Mexico is mainly caused by automobile traffic, the result of overcrowded roads, and automobiles that are often old and environmentally unsound. Air pollution in Mexico varies among cities as well. For example, in Mexico City, where pollution levels are at their worst, the city’s geography, which places it below sea level and surrounded on three sides by mountains, causes the pollution to stay trapped in the atmosphere. In other Mexican cities that border the United States, the causes of poor air quality are primarily from the factories that have sprung up along the borders.

source: http://www.encyclomedia.com/air_pollution.html

Second

Do you know your cousin's serum Vitamin D level? (Has she ever been tested?)

Low vitamin D increases flu risk"

If you want to make sure you are covering all your bases when it comes to flu prevention, there is more you can do than follow the typically-spouted recommendations. In fact, for sun-starved Seattleites, it is especially important to make sure you’re not deficient in Vitamin D, a crucial vitamin for immune system functioning linked to seasonal, epidemic flu.
...
Vitamin D deficiency, common among Seattleites, is linked to influenza and respiratory tract infections. Studies have shown that children with vitamin D deficiency are predisposed to respiratory infections, especially viral infections rather that bacterial (Walker, 2009). In adults, studies show that higher vitamin D levels in the blood are associated with lower levels of upper respiratory infections (Ginde, 2009).

Vitamin D supplementation has been shown to reduce the incidence of respiratory infections in children, while studies using vitamin D supplementation in adults to prevent infections have been mixed (Cannell, 2006). For example, daily supplementation with 800 IU vitamin D3 for 12 weeks in older people living in the UK and Scotland was associated with fewer self-reported infections and antibiotics, but the estimated 10–15% reduction was not statistically significant (Avenell, 2007). It could be that higher dosages for a longer treatment time would have resulted in statistically significant reductions in infections and antibiotic use in this older, northern-latitude-based population.

Sunlight is an important source of vitamin D, but don’t be fooled into thinking that getting out in the Seattle sun this spring and summer will be sufficient, especially if your Vitamin D levels are already too low. A recent study of 93 people living in Hawaii with high amounts of sun exposure (participants spent an average 22.4 hours per week outside without sunscreen) found that 51% of the subjects had serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D concentrations below 30 ng/mL, defined as "low vitamin D status”. These results implied that the common clinical recommendation to allow sun exposure to the hands and face for 15 minutes may not ensure vitamin D sufficiency, according to the investigators (Binkely, 2007).
...
----
References

Avenell A, Cook JA, Maclennan GS, Macpherson GC. Vitamin D supplementation to prevent infections: a sub-study of a randomised placebo-controlled trial in older people (RECORD trial, ISRCTN 51647438). Age Ageing. 2007 Sep;36(5):574-7.

Binkley N, Novotny R, Krueger D, Kawahara T, Daida YG, Lensmeyer G, Hollis BW, Drezner MK. Low vitamin D status despite abundant sun exposure. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2007 Jun;92(6):2130-5.

Cannell JJ, Vieth R, Umhau JC, Holick MF, Grant WB, Madronich S, Garland CF, Giovannucci E. Epidemic influenza and vitamin D. Epidemiol Infect. 2006 Dec;134(6):1129-40.

Ginde AA, Mansbach JM, Camargo CA. Association Between Serum 25-Hydroxyvitamin D Level and Upper Respiratory Tract Infection in the Third National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey. Arch Intern Med. 2009;169(4):384-390.

Walker VP, Modlin RL. The Vitamin D Connection to Pediatric Infections and Immune Function. Pediatr Res. 2009 Jan 28.

Wike Malone R, Kessenich C. Vitamin D Deficiency: Implications Across the Lifespan. The Journal for Nurse Practitioners. 2008 June;4(6): 448-454.

NOTE: The writer doesn't mention anything about the "constitutive pigmentation" of the "93 people living in Hawaii with high amounts of sun exposure...without sunscreen", but that, too, is a factor in ability to absorb UVB radiation. (See 18:40 Skin Cancer/Sunscreen -- The Dilemma and Your Health: Skin color matters in the vitamin D debate "Though someone in Boston with pale skin can get adequate vitamin D by exposing their arms and legs to the sun for 10 to 15 minutes twice a week in the summer, someone with the darkest skin might need two hours of exposure each time," Holick says. "It's impractical,"...)

Gauging your Vitamin D Status - Chart
What is the best serum 25(OH) Vitamin D concentration?

People living in sunny places with minimal clothing that doesn't limit vitamin D photosynthesis have serum 25(OH) D levels of 54 to 90 ng/ml (1)

A good target is 60ng/ml == 150 nMol/L (level of lifeguards in LA Jolla.)

A useful rule of thumb is that for every 100 IU of vitamin D3 ingested, you'll gain 1 ng/ml in serum 25(OH)D, so if your current level is 40 ng/ml you should take 2,000 IU to get up to 60 ng/ml. If your current level is 20 ng/ml, 4000 IU/day would raise it to 60 ng/ml. (2)

The Risk of Additional Vitamin D – Reinhold Vieth, PhD
Ann. Epidemiology, April 11, 2009 (Epub ahead of schedule)

”…Evidence from clinical trials shows, with a wide margin of confidence, that a prolonged intake of 10,000 IU/d of vitamin D(3) poses no risk of adverse effects for adults, even if this is added to a rather high physiologic background level of vitamin D.”

...
A study by Dr. Cannell* from California also showed that vitamin D can help prevent influenza infections by strengthening the immune system. A daily intake of 2,000 IU should be taken — at minimum. A dose of up to 10,000 IU of vitamin D daily for a few days may also be helpful. Whether vitamin D will help with the swine flu is yet to be seen — however, I personally took a higher than usual dose of vitamin D last night after watching news reports on the infection. Better safe than sorry!

Dr. Eric Madrid
http://vitamind-prescription.com/2009/04/25/swine-flu-infection-and-vitamin-d-can-it-help/

 

[Dorian Gray]

29. I take Vitamin D supplements

as I think it's important and I tested low for it in my blood. But, if the flu is thriving in places like Cancun or other sunny locales (as we will learn as the flu plays out) then it will be obvious that Vitamin D, though it might help our immune systems gain strength, isn't a cure all panacea for the flu.

I think we should all get plenty of it. I feel better since including the supplements into my diet. But to state that it's a cure-all for swine flu is false advertising. Plenty of people will get it despite their supplementation or Vitamin D intake from the sun.

[tiptoe]

30. Never seen or made a representation of Vitamin D as a "cure" for anything -- quite to the contrary:

 
From the 2nd paragraph of the OP I presented here:

"...No one is proposing that vitamin D is a panacea, however it seems to provide part of the sturdy framework for our physical and mental well being."

I cited Dr Eric Madrid, who wrote here:

"A study by Dr. Cannell from California also showed that vitamin D can help prevent influenza infections by strenghtening the immune system....Whether vitamin D will help with the swine flu is yet to be seen..."

From Dr. John Jacob Cannell MD Executive Director, Vitamin D Council, 2008.10.01, http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/health/deficiency/am-i-vitamin-d-deficient.shtml">here:

How Much Vitamin D Should I Take?
...
Again, we don't know. This is a difficult question because it relies on so many personal factors. Everyone's situation is either a lot, or at least a little, different. How much vitamin D you need varies with age, body weight, percent of body fat, latitude, skin coloration, season of the year, use of sunblock, individual variation in sun exposure, and—probably—how ill you are. As a general rule, old people need more than young people, big people need more that little people, heavier people need more than skinny people, northern people need more than southern people, dark-skinned people need more than fair-skinned people, winter people need more than summer people, sunblock lovers need more than sunblock haters, sun-phobes need more than sun worshipers, and ill people may need more than well people.

Quite a few factors are involved, as you can see. However, don't feel bad, no one understands it. Vitamin D is used by the body—metabolically cleared—both to maintain wellness and to treat disease. If you get an infection, how much vitamin D does your body use up fighting the infection? If you have cancer, how much vitamin D does your body use up fighting the cancer? If you have heart disease, how much vitamin D does your body use up fighting the heart disease? If you are a child with autism, how much vitamin D does your brain need to turn on the genes that autism has turned off? If you are an athlete, how much vitamin D does your body use to make you stronger and quicker? Nobody knows the answer to these questions.

What statement have you seen that "it's a cure for swine flu"? I agree — that would be false advertising. No serious researcher would make that claim.

Heavy use of non-opaque sunscreens could be exacerbating Vitamin D deficiency. (See 21:45 Skin Cancer/Sunscreens - The Dilemma "Human Photoprotective Response...evolved over millenia...Sunscreens inhibit Human Photoprotective response.") Thus, one shouldn't necessarily be surprised to find populations using UVB-blocking sunscreens throughout the year in "sunny places" to be immunologically compromised and possibly more susceptible to influenza than "people living in sunny places with minimal clothing that doesn't limit vitamin D photosynthesis [who] have serum 25(OH) D levels of 54 to 90 ng/ml" (Gauging your Vitamin D Status).

 

[aquart]

5. Here's a shock for you: many people do NOT spend five minutes in the sun.

For days and days and days.

[SPedigrees]

7. Very true. Supplementation with vitamin D is recommended

for all people. D3 is the best form to take.

http://www.medpagetoday.com/InfectiousDisease/URItheFlu/13061?utm_source=mSpoke&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=DailyHeadlines&utm_content=GroupB&userid=76027&impressionId=1235935156932

http://www.medpagetoday.com/Endocrinology/Osteoporosis/13383?utm_source=mSpoke&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=DailyHeadlines&utm_content=GroupB&userid=76027&impressionId=1237860386608

[MADem]

8. They should, though. Not hours. Just a few moments.

Even five minutes a day, and not even at high noon--it's a good thing.

I think it's easier and cheaper to use Mother Nature than take a doggone pill, myself.

[varelse]

27. It's true!

I know some of those people personally :P

[havocmom]

13. everything I have read says 20 minutes, at least 3 time a week

and ya gotta be buck nekkid. Hope you have a good lawyer who can keep you off the sexual offenders list for that level of absorption ;)

Lots of us have had doctors, especially rheumatologists, do blood work then prescribe D supplements. Guess what, it helps a lot of things.

[MADem]

16. Who gave you that batshit gouge? They musta thought you were cute and wanted to see more of you!!

If you're fair skinned, experts say going outside for 10 minutes in the midday sun—in shorts and a tank top with no sunscreen—will give you enough radiation to produce about 10,000 international units of the vitamin. Dark-skinned individuals and the elderly also produce less vitamin D, and many folks don't get enough of the nutrient from dietary sources like fatty fish and fortified milk.

http://health.usnews.com/articles/health/living-well-usn/2008/06/23/time-in-the-sun-how-much-is-needed-for-vitamin-d.html

Your body makes vitamin D when you are exposed to the ultraviolet B (UVB) rays in sunlight. You probably need from 5 to 30 minutes of exposure to the skin on your face, arms, back or legs (without sunscreen) twice every week. ...The amount of exposure also depends on the time of the year. In the northern hemisphere, the UVB is more intense during the summer months and less intense during the winter months. In fact, if you live north of the 42-degrees latitude, you will have a difficult time getting enough vitamin D from the sun from November through February. If you live north of a line drawn on a map from the northern border of California to Boston, Massachusetts, you will probably need additional vitamin D from the foods you eat during the winter.

http://nutrition.about.com/od/askyournutritionist/f/sunlight.htm

[havocmom]

17. several medical links posted to threads on the subject the other day, actually

Fair AND allergic to sun, I don't go out much without LOTS of cover and sunscreen that is so powerful it usually clouds up and rains when I apply it.

[MADem]

18. Well, you'll have to eat the salmon, then....but you're not typical.

Most people can get what they need from the sun and their diet.

I still think some fellah was giving you the business because he wanted to see you in yer birf-day suit! "Come on, darlin...it's GOOD for you!"

[havocmom]

26. LOL if you only knew how OLD I am!

:rofl:

And yeah, the rheumotologist has me on enough fish oil to keep a small fleet of Norwegian fishermen busy. My skin is very soft though.

[MADem]

28. Darling, you're as young as you feel!!!

And there's always someone older than you.....except for that 115 year old lady who said the best thing about being that old was "no peer pressure!"

I'm sure there's some hot codger around town who would jump at the chance to sunbathe with you AND your soft skin, if only the sun wasn't inhospitable and you'd indulge him--never sell yourself short!

[blaze]

23. My neighbor recently built a back porch

that allows them to see right over my 6' "privacy" fence.

Think I'll be okay sunbathing buck nekkid? :hi:

[havocmom]

25. are you in the flight path of a small or military airfield?

I know some cops in helicopters who had a 'special routes' they like to fly often. You could catch swine flu from those clowns.

We have an 8 foot privacy fence, cuz the guy next door stands on his porch buck nekkid. It was somewhat disconcerting, as it is his FRONT porch.

[Mamacrat]

31. Flight path?

What do you mean that you can catch swine flu from being in a flight path?

[havocmom]

32. No, joke about being in the yard nekkid

:eyes:

Did you only read my subject line and miss the point about airborne peeping toms and the inference that cops who fly over certain yards where people may be bare behind their privacy fences are sexist pigs?

[blaze]

33. Heh

I'm too old and saggy for that to be an issue. In fact, maybe I could reduce the numerous fly overs by the traffic helicopters!! :)

Hmmmm....

[havocmom]

34. the light reflecting off my pale paddy butt would probably blind any pilots

Gotta keep covered up to spare them all! Wish the guy next door would do same.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

6. Link, don't know the results, you'll have to dig.

http://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00656929?term=flu+vitamin+d&rank=3


Randomized Controlled Trial of Vitamin D3 Supplementation for Viral Upper Respiratory Tract Infections (URI) Prevention
This study has been completed.

Study Type: Interventional
Study Design: Prevention, Randomized, Double Blind (Subject, Investigator), Placebo Control, Parallel Assignment, Efficacy Study
Official Title: A Randomized Controlled Trial of Vitamin D3 Supplementation for the Prevention of Viral Upper Respiratory Tract Infections

[tiptoe]

24. thanks for the info. nt

[safeinOhio]

11. Simple blood test, if worried.

[uppityperson]

22. Yes. Vitamine D can help every type of dis-ease.

Simply call my hotline 1-888-vit-minD and order now

[tiptoe]

35. Epidemic Influenza And Vitamin D -- J J Cannell, MD, 2006 - x

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=222&topic_id=49922&mesg_id=58914 - x