Monday PUSHBACK Thread.

[EFerrari]

Here are a few items that could use a response:

White House Cheat Sheet: Obama's Tough Call on Torture - WaPo

President Obama finds himself in a difficult political position with regard to the harsh treatment of prisoners during the Bush administration -- stuck between his own natural inclination to look forward and focus on the struggling economy and a Democratic base that believes strongly that congressional hearings and prosecutions are a necessity.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/cheat-sheet/whit-house-cheat-sheet-a-tough.html?wprss=thefix

How to proceed with torture inquiry -- Miami Herald
OUR OPINION: Inquiry should avoid effort to put previous administration on trial

The Obama administration's decision late last week to release photographs depicting alleged abuses at U.S. prisons in Iraq and Afghanistan is sure to add fuel to the fire over whether to investigate allegations of torture during the Bush years. The two issues are not, strictly speaking, related. The photographs deal with instances of wrongdoing at detention facilities, whereas the torture issue involves practices explicitly endorsed by Bush administration lawyers. This distinction will surely get lost in the heat of debate.

http://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/editorials/story/1019414.html


Stop the scapegoating -- Savannah Morning News
Monday, April 27, 2009 at 12:30 am

If ever there is a time for President Obama to trust his instincts and stick to his guns, that time is now, when he is being pressured to change his mind about closing the books on the "torture" policies of the past.

http://savannahnow.com/node/713343

Poll: Baxter Bulletin, AK
Opinion Poll: Should there be federal investigations and prosecution for te current allegations of torture by U.S. personnel?

http://www.baxterbulletin.com/section/OPINION

Pelosi playing defense on torture -- Politico
By GLENN THRUSH | 4/27/09 4:33 AM EDT

Nancy Pelosi didn’t cry foul when the Bush administration briefed her on “enhanced interrogation” of terror suspects in 2002, but her team was locked and loaded to counter hypocrisy charges when the “torture” memos were released last week.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0409/21724.html

Democrats push for probe into tortures -- AP, found at Durango Herald
by Douglass K. Daniel

Article Last Updated; Monday, April 27, 2009
WASHINGTON - A leading Democratic senator said Sunday independent investigators should determine whether Bush administration officials ought to face charges over the harsh interrogation techniques used against suspected terrorists.

http://www.durangoherald.com/sections/News/2009/04/27/Democrats_push_for_probe_into_tortures/

(The story below is all over the place this morning. You might check your local paper to see if it's there.)

Eric Holder meets with British intelligent officials
By Associated Press
Monday, April 27, 2009 - Added 1h ago

LONDON — U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder, on the first stop of a European tour, met privately on Monday with British officials to talk about intelligence and terrorism.

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/international/europe/view.bg?articleid=1168368&srvc=rss



Is that a Republican talking point over there?

Good morning, DU. :patriot:

[annabanana]

1. k&r. . . n/t

[EFerrari]

2. Kick

[Spazito]

3. Excellent!

There are two main talking points being pushed:

1) No investigation/prosecution of the crimes of the Bush administration

2) Top Democrats are to blame as well

The overall message being a threat: If the Bush administration is investigated it will bring down Democrats as well.

Lame message, imo.


Recommended.

[DKRC]

4. K&R

Off to the greatest page for more exposure.

[EFerrari]

7. Thanks!

[barbtries]

5. that place in Arkansa

wow. over 75% against investigating war crimes???

[Qutzupalotl]

6. Thanks E!

Great info!

[SammyWinstonJack]

8. K&R

[grahamhgreen]

9. Their framing: "Did torture work?" OUR FRAMING: "Is torture criminal?'

If torture works then why don't we use it on children when we know they are lying!

If torture works then why don't we use it in regular police investigations!

If torture works then why don't we use it in congressional hearings!

If torture works then why don't we use it to find out if there is global warming, or if the earth revolves around the Sun!

etc. etc.........

[EFerrari]

18. All great points! The simple one I like is "law and order".

The Republicans have trained their base to respond to that phrase for decades. *They* mean segregation but since it's code, the phrase can be hijacked,e.g., why do Republicans oppose law and order?

[grahamhgreen]

32. Right. Should crimes be punished or not? Many innocent people were tortured. see General Taguba's

website intro:

http://brokenlives.info/?page_id=23


Preface to Broken Laws, Broken Lives

By Major General Antonio Taguba, USA (Ret.)

Major General Antonio Taguba (Ret)Maj. General Taguba led the US Army’s official investigation into the Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse scandal and testified before Congress on his findings in May, 2004.

"The profiles of these eleven former detainees, none of whom were ever charged with a crime or told why they were detained, are tragic and brutal rebuttals to those who claim that torture is ever justified. Through the experiences of these men in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Guantanamo Bay, we can see the full scope of the damage this illegal and unsound policy has inflicted—both on America’s institutions and our nation’s founding values, which the military, intelligence services, and our justice system are duty-bound to defend."

[grahamhgreen]

33. Actually the framing is better as: Torture is a crime. A war crime. No need for a question.

[EFerrari]

34. Exactly. We either have law and order or we don't.

We either prosecute murder and assault or we don't. It's pretty simple. :shrug:

[chill_wind]

10. Thank you EF. DU can get busy on that little poll right now:

http://www.baxterbulletin.com/section/OPINION

I'm looking over the rest for a selected response I hope to make before the day is out.

K & R.

[chill_wind]

11. Checking back in-- OK I went to Savannah.

(and broke the eerie silence..)

Then I looked up David Broder.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_S._Broder

Glad I didn't bother checking who I was talking back to until I was all done, LOL.

[EFerrari]

14. LOL! Sometimes, that's just the best way to do it!

:hi:

[chill_wind]

15. True, that.

Wouldn't have changed the need to confront. And man, is there a ripe need for rebuttal.
I think I did ok :-)

:hi:

[chill_wind]

12. ...

:kick:

[KoKo]

13. kick!

[omega minimo]

16. Are you tryin to make us DU sumthin or sumthin.....................?

:yourock: K/R Rockin OP, EFerrari

[EFerrari]

29. Let's give them something to talk about!

lol

:yourock:

[omega minimo]

39. Earworm!!!!

and a good one :toast: a little something to figure out..............

[EFerrari]

17. New Gallup poll: 51% of Americans want investigation

Slim Majority Wants Bush-Era Interrogations Investigated
Majority says use of harsh techniques on terrorism suspects was justified
by Jeffrey M. Jones

PRINCETON, NJ -- A new Gallup Poll finds 51% of Americans in favor and 42% opposed to an investigation into the use of harsh interrogation techniques on terrorism suspects during the Bush administration. At the same time, 55% of Americans believe in retrospect that the use of the interrogation techniques was justified, while only 36% say it was not. Notably, a majority of those following the news about this matter "very closely" oppose an investigation and think the methods were justified.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/118006/Slim-Majority-Wants-Bush-Era-Interrogations-Investigated.aspx?CSTS=tagrss

[chill_wind]

21. I find that overall......

depressing. Cheney and all the mini-Dicks are currently still winning the propaganda war.

What still gets Americans up in arms more than anything?

Gas prices.

[EFerrari]

22. Maybe. But it isn't as overwhelming as Jeff Sessions claimed today

on the floor of the Senate.

[chill_wind]

23. Tell more. I missed that

and I need a laugh. Even a hollow one.

[EFerrari]

25. He was ranting against releasing the Uigars into the United States.

Jeff isn't long on specifics. He just said we're against having terrorists live in our communities and against prosecuting the Bush administration. He slipped it in. I didn't hear the whole thing and don't know if he said witch hunt or banana republic.

[chill_wind]

26. Thanks EF. I wouldn't bet against the possibility

that he managed to work in *both* memes. And maybe threw in an extra "retribution" and a gratuitous "vengeance" for extra good measure.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

19. Good work. K&R

[leftstreet]

20. K&R

Nice work

[Political Heretic]

24. Holy shit. It's a full court press. To have no accountability for criminal acts.

[EFerrari]

27. So, let's pushback!

:hi:

[Political Heretic]

28. My op-ed running in statewide paper this week !

[EFerrari]

31. Yeah! Baby! Do you have a link!

:yourock:

[Political Heretic]

35. It hasn't run in the Statesman yet but here:

http://practical-vision.blogspot.com/2009/04/raping-people-might-yield-important.html

[EFerrari]

36. Thank you.

:applause:

[chill_wind]

40. VERY nice. Here's my talk-back from this morning.

http://savannahnow.com/node/713343

Tomorrow is another day.

[chill_wind]

30. That it is.

All the junk is fallin out of the trunk now, for sure, and we see what establishment media is made of yet one more time.

[tbyg52]

37. Thank you for this. Great idea. I'll do the ones I can on my dialup. nt

[EFerrari]

38. Thank you!

:hi: