Can you hear the chickens clucking?

[SoCalDem]

They have come home to roost..and unfortunately, with the media we have, we will be told (and ARE being told) that those little chickies live in DemocRATville..


Democrats never have learned about the power of one's conviction..

Nancy & the gang went along to get along..and to stay elected and to avoid being called "yellow-bellied terrorist-loving commies".. the repubs loved bullying them when their guys were at the WH, because they knew they would win either way..

bully the dems into submission, and hold those cards for a later date when they might need to play them, or get to attack them unmercifully at the time of the "NO votes the dems might have cast..

No one beats a legislative republican at the game of Brier Patch

The dems who were privy to insider info on the torture stuff, and who chose to go along for expediency's sake...when they knew in their hearts they should not have voted that way...well they are welcoming the chickens home now, and there are only two ways to answer for their duplicity.

They were naive and scheming back then and went along with the "in-crowd"... or they are lying now about being out of the loop..

"Out of the loop" was an excuse that WE accepted during the Iran Contra, and then we let it all fade away.. republicans never let anything fade away..

So now the torture "thing" is not about the actual torture and the ones who did it, but instead the press will have a field day about how the democrats KNEW and did nothing to stop the illegality..even though they were a minority back then..

and in Texas, Georgie is smiling

[Lint Head]

1. I've been using the term Re-Pubic-Rats for years. They stole it from

me! Re-Pubic means they are appallled by and want to control anything related to the pubic area.
Rats mean they are rats.
:dem::smoke:

[KharmaTrain]

2. It's Not Quite What It Was...

Yes, our corporate media has jobbed the system to make sure they "balance" all "stories" with a right wing perspective...and feel that anyone else who isn't a party member or from one of their "think" tanks is a "democrat" or "librul". They've become lazy in helping the GOOP try to frame all issues and its lead to massive amounts of propaganda and misinformation to pour into homes around the country. But I don't see things as bad as they were...and that's because of the change in technology, demographics and times.

We're seeing the Mighty Wurlitzer that dominated the "news" and "public discourse" from 1994 through 2006 starting to misfire. This was the astroturfing/blast faxing/talking points game that inundated the accessible media and drowned out any and all dissent. Simplified talking points trumped complicated issues...flag waving pushed aside any questions and anyone who questioned obviously was a threat. It's an "us vs. them" world of bad and evil that dumbed down the corproate media (who gladly took pieces of gold and access for their "troubles) and worked well with the "base". By 2002, that "base" had dominated, now they're slipping fast with no end in sight.

While this game is still in motion (and that says something), look at how this debate has shifted. In 2005 when Abu Grahb came to light, the Mighty Wurlitzer made their point that it was a "few bad apples"...they served up Lyndie England and her boyfriend and "justice was done". In 2007 when the wiretapping and systemic torture came to light, again the Wurlitzer cranked to muddy the waters...change torture to "enhanced interrogation" and the media went right for the ride. It wasn't until booooosh was gone that this topic came back up and once again we're hearing the Mighty Wurlitzer try to knock it down. But this time they don't have the power they once did.

Newspapers are an endangered species, television has seen its revenues fall 50% and little, if any growth, while the Internet grows as a major or prime source of information for more and more people. We're becoming a nation of editors, reporters and analyists...all with the click of a mouse. The media filter is being circumvented and this is affecting how this current situation is playing out.

Georgie may be smiling...but I have my doubts. His ego surely has to feel deserted and his "legacy" is being trashed as the rats of his ship scurry to run from the light of investigation. Unlike 2005 & 2007, there's hard evidence and a new Administration, also a strong netroots and other groups that won't let these stories die.

[NNN0LHI]

3. What are you talking about?

Members of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence can't reveal what they are told.

Didn't you know that?

KO explained it last night.

Don

[SoCalDem]

4. talking about the steady stream of right wingers on tv

blaming it all on Pelosi and the democRATS who "knew" all about the impending torture, and who signed onto it then..and who are decrying it now.. even though they apparently approved it then and voted for it then

and how the media is loving blabbing about the "what did they know and when did they know it" aspect, instead of the actual torture and who in the administration ordered it..

The fact that they are not supposed to tell what they hear, is not stopping the right wingers one little bit, now is it?

[NNN0LHI]

5. They voted for it?

There was no vote that I am aware of concerning this. Are you aware of anyone voting on this?

The intelligence people bring them into a room one at a time and tell them this is what is being done.

None of them know what the others were told. That is why Hoekstra couldn't say he was ever at any meeting where the Dems were told about anything. He doesn't know what they were told because he wasn't there with them.

The Republicans can talk about what happened now because the torture memos have been released and are no longer secret.

Don

[SoCalDem]

6. Yesterday Nancy said she (they) approved

the right of the admin to "use" the techniques, IF it were necessary and that the admin promised to come back to them with more info..It sounded to me as if there was some vote taken if even in the committee.. ..

I just hope that the media feels pressure and they veer back to the reality of the issue......and that nancy stops stammering and making excuses that sound fishy..

[NNN0LHI]

7. Here is what I found from yesterday. Where did you hear what you say you heard?

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/04/23/1905111.aspx

PELOSI SAYS SHE WASN'T BRIEFED ON TACTICS

Posted: Thursday, April 23, 2009 2:55 PM by Domenico Montanaro

From NBC's Domenico Montanaro

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said that when receiving briefings as a member of the Intelligence Committee, neither she nor other members of Congress were ever briefed that methods considered to be torture were used.

She did say that the Department of Justice briefed her in 2002 that techniques recognized as torture were approved for use by DOJ. But she says they were told they would let leaders know when or if they used them, which, she says, they never did.

That contradicts what House Minority Leader John Boehner said at a news conference this morning, where he implied that members of Congress who were briefed on tactics never raised objection.

"We were not told that waterboarding or any of these other interrogation methods were used," Pelosi said flatly at a news conference this afternoon.



I don't see any stammering. Do you? She seems pretty damn clear to me.

Don