You know ..... we knew ..... WE FUCKING KNEW ....... contermporaneously, we knew

Let's float above the politics and our own internal divisions for a moment.

We knew all this shit that is being projectile vomited from the darker vestibules guarding the darkest corners of the darkest rooms of our government.

We KNEW they were trying to gin up a connection between Saddam and bin Ladin. We KNEW they were torturing. We KNEW that the ignoramii found guilty of crimes at Abu Ghraib were scapegoats. We KNEW this shit went straight up the line to the inner circle of the White House.

We may not have known some of the finer details, but we knew.

If you have any seniority on DU, you knew.

We knew.

And we will NOT be silent. We've NEVER been silent.

We KNEW.

from the git go. It was obvious.

The Hindu culture has a word "avidya" (sp) which basically means 'not wanting to know.' That's what the so-called press, and Congress, and the Freeper Homelanders are guilty of: avidya - not wanting to know the ugly truth. Like the wife who keeps seeing her husband come home with lipstick on his collar, and never asks him about it; she does not want to know, because it is somehow, she thinks, easier or more convenient to pretend you do not know.

Avidya.

Exactly right.

"bein' ignernt" as opposed to "ingorance". "Ignernt" implies a stubborn resistance to obvious truth.

They're not turning a blind eye to the torture -- they're cheerleaders for it.

Of course, on the one hand they deny it's torture while on the other they see nothing wrong with torturing "terrists."

"You will pay for your support of this EVIL - You will reap what you have sown - do unto others as you would have them do unto you"

- Jesus Christ


- Jesus Christ

We tried to get somebody - ANYBODY - to listen to us. We tried to get our side heard. We were shut down, not just by the bad guys but with the way they jackbooted our guys, OUR guys turned a deaf ear, too.

And what's just so sad, to me, is how EVERYTHING we said turned out to be proven true. EVERYTHING we warned about, EVERYTHING we protested against, EVERYTHING we tried to point out and blow the whistle about and shine a light on, EVERYTHING we voiced suspicions about, EVERYTHING we argued against and marched against and petitioned against and called and emailed and pleaded and begged to be heard about - WE were CORRECT about EVERYTHING. HOW MANY of us begged our Senators not to approve jay bybee, and for the reasons everyone's aware of now? Same thing with mukasey and alito and roberts and EVERYTHING else.

EVERYTHING WE SAID turned out to be true.

There's no glory or warm fuzzy goodness about being right in this, but dammit! We fucking knew! Hell yes we did! All you fucking rat bastards that called us names, fuck you. Fuck you all to hell.

Proudly giving the first rec!

Goddammit!!!

I rolled down the window and told them
to "Get a Job" and "Pay their Taxes".

The "get a job" thing was something
that was yelled at me THOUSANDS
of times by 'pukes driving past
our little Sunday protests against
the posturing for bombing Iran.

It made no sense, since I had a
job, but that's what they always
yelled.

It DID crack me up to see the
SHOCKED looks on their hypocritical
little faces when I threw it back
at them.



Childish...but satisfying.

I love the idea of yelling that to these people. How funny! I especially love the "Pay your taxes!" line because many have indeed lost their jobs due to the GWB policies/economy. Anyway... nice going.

Finally being able to protest
something themselves!

Doesn't matter that they
didn't MAKE ANY SENSE.

The looks on their faces
was PRICELESS.

They thought they were only
going to get car honks and
thumbs up of approval.

I swear, I almost turned around
and gave it to the OTHER SIDE
of the street!

Then I remembered the time a
jerk rode by our protest on
a motorcycle and KICKED the
sign of one of our group and
sped off...

So I just kept on going.

I yelled "love it or leave it", for the same reason you yelled get a job. It feels good to use their tired shit on them for once.

Priceless.

and the folks who cried "you people are a bunch of tin foil hat crazy DU internet bloggerzzz!!!11111"

can go straight to fucking hell.

Fuck. Them.

Election night 2000, when it appeared that W "won" Florida, I said to my husband, "We're going back to Iraq." I've never been more sorry to be right.

at war within a year of being elected, if he won.

Right again.

I felt like no matter how hard I screamed, no one could hear me.

I remember as troops marched off and people waved flags and this person I was arguing with said smugly "Most nations are with us on this..." I felt like I was able to see the whole damn thing. Like in a crystal ball. Everything that was going to happen from shock-and-awe to smug "we won" to mess and, yes, scandal, corruption.

We were Cassandras. All of us. Offering the Trojans an absolutely truthful vision of the future that they couldn't accept. They far preferred the fantasy which told them that we were going to win, be heroes, establish a democracy and get all the middle-east oil. Everyone wanted to believe it was going to be that easy and that likely.

And Republicans keep trying to tell us that we're the ones wearing the "rose-colored" glasses!

Go through the list. Not just the war but health care, education, the economy, Social Security, torture, and on and on.

Theonly thing that enrages me is that we are all suffering because of Bush's 8 years of insanity. It's just cold comfort to say "We told you so..."

I said exactly the same thing. When I saw my ballot being carried off uncounted that next morning with the rest of my precinct's ballots, I knew. My partner and I called that morning The Day America Died.

We have hope she's rising from the ashes.

I've heard nothing but stupidity and criminality from the mouths of righties for 30 years now. I'm so enjoying handing their shit right back to them and making them wear it home.

Now that we're FREAKING over the
bankruptcy of our own country!

We will probably NEVER know the scope
of the damage that we did in Iraq.

Like how many people we annihilated in Fallujah...

That's something Cheney must be chewing over right now. But they plow on with their surrogates appearing on tv, radio and in print because they underestimated the people. They'll have themselves to blame for all this building and landing them wherever they will.

The freakin', freepin', neo-cons were clueless about what Chimpie called "the internets". Without the web and sites like DU, how many of us would be as informed as we are about the crimes of the BFEE and their puppeteers?

But dammit, we found the other sane 'murikans' and learned more than we wanted to know.

Maybe there IS a god...

The information has been "hiding in plain sight" for YEARS.

Only NOW is it getting any proper attention.

may never BE revealed, officially.

They lied about everything. They lied by omission, they lied by distortion, they lied by obfuscation and they just plane lied. Even here, most still have no clear sense of just how deep this criminality goes.



edit typo

I don't know if this country could handle the truth. But I'm willing to find out.

That was slammin. They lied their asses off during their 2000 campaign and never stopped lying and hiding information all the way to Jan 20th, 2009. And now were supposed to believe what Cheney or Rove says about these torture memos? Ridiculous.

None of us here are surprised, however, that doesn't take away from the sheer disgust that they were doing what we knew they were doing. We'll never be silent, and we sure as hell will never find a way to justify the atrocities committed in our names.

The spigot is open - let it all flow out then lock up the bastards. I agree with Elizabeth De la Vega.

This is what I don't understand. There are probably hundreds if not thousands of others like him but Padilla, a US citizen, is currently "serving his sentence at the Charleston,(SC) Naval Weapons Station Brig."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos é_Padilla_(alleged_terrorist)

Sentence for WHAT?! This is so wrong and yet even after all we know it still goes on. Are we really that powerless to control our own freaking government?

And that's probably the WORST of all the things we knew.

contemporaneously


Main Entry:
con·tem·po·ra·ne·ous
Pronunciation:
\kən-ˌtem-pə-ˈrā-nē-əs\
Function:
adjective
Etymology:
Latin contemporaneus, from com- + tempor-, tempus time
Date:
circa 1656

existing, occurring, or originating during the same time





In this instance, it means we knew it pretty much as it was going on.




Oh? you knew that?

Never mind. I was trying to be helpful and I got punked.

Many just don't want to admit or believe it.

idea what it was... ergo she pals around with people who torture, ergo she pals around with terrorists.


ON EDIT AGAIN TO SAY: I've known for a long long time.

It is a shameful thing on my part, but there it is.

I crumpled up my tinfoil hat sometime in late September, 2001.

I hope enough people are watching these goons because they will do anything to escape punishment.

They stole the 2000 election with one plan - stealing Iraq.

in hopes that the appearance of a mandate would trump all suspicions, and allow them to further entrench to the point where no evidence of anything would ever see the light of day.

Criminals all.

n/t

and we haven't been silent.

We won't be silent.

We knew that detainee abuse was and had to have been systematic and therefore deliberate.

In fact, I was directed here by republicans tired of my "theories".



hm.

turns out I was a freakin prophet. Or willing to accurately view the dark hearts of the Cheney/bush administration.

and just threw the Geneva Conventions away. Damn straight I hope this bites them all back.

I have spoken with the disengaged who are suddenly being confronted by the irrefutable truths that we have been living with for all this time.

I have to bite my tongue to keep from biting their heads off. Instead, I feed them another angle, another tidbit of well known (for us) information and watch their eyes as they begin to come to terms with the outrage that was committed against ALL of us.

This recognition has been a long damn time coming. I am glad, but I am also so very very weary.

I have to admit, I was blown away by the memos. It was not the fact that we tortured. What really got me, was the perverse way they tried to put the thinnest veneer of legality on something that has always been defined as torture. The intricate, specific language regarding each technique and the consistent mention of what constituted 'severe' mental and physical pain. Why in Christ's name would they want to do what was clearly illegal on such a large scale, in your face manner, for years. They got some feel good from it, obviously, because they didn't get anything else.

they're about to.

Thank you, sir.

and yet anyone who was willing to discuss the truth got canned like Donahue at MSNBC----before its big revelation that Bush's economic policies were bad for the manufacturing sector (i.e GE).

social domestic and foreign policy issue I can think of over the past 8 years (if not longer).

And yet the MSM still seems resigned to cast progressives as being out of the mainstream of whatever. when it comes to the truth you're either right or your wrong and we were right. popular opinion doesn't mean jack.

In 2003. They knew, too.

Because I knew they were lying through their teeth.

of a few thousand teabaggers.

Pure bullshit.

Bush's daddy's "hometown."

They just kept coming and coming down that hill to protest the war. We couldn't believe how many showed up. HERE!

And there were two fucking million people in London, .. aw heck, here:

US

Last night's protest in San Francisco was the last in a weekend of American mass demonstrations.

In New York on Saturday organisers counted 400,000 demonstrators who, forbidden by a court order from marching, rallied within sight of the United Nations amid heavy security. They were joined by the South African archbishop Desmond Tutu, and actors Susan Sarandon and Danny Glover. In Chicago 3,000 gathered and in Philadelphia 5,000 more carried anti-Bush banners. Other marchers massed in more than 100 towns and cities, including Seattle, Miami and Los Angeles.

Australia

Yesterday's anti-war protest in Sydney was the biggest demonstration in Australia's history, surpassing even the record set by Friday's demonstration in Melbourne. Around 250,000 marchers were addressed by American singer Jackson Browne, journalist John Pilger and Green party senator Bob Brown.

There was a typically Australian strand of irreverence about parts of the protest, with organisers giving out prime minister John Howard's office phone number.

The prime minister was unimpressed by the protests. "I don't know that you can measure public opinion just by the number of people that turn up at demonstrations," he said.

Spain

Two marches in Spain - in Madrid and Barcelona - each brought out around a million people on Saturday evening, with dozens more gatherings countrywide, taking the total number of protesters towards the 3 million mark.

It was the biggest outpouring of popular political sentiment - with the possible exception of some anti-Eta marches - since Spaniards took to the streets to protect their fragile young democracy after a coup attempt in 1981.

The protest was not directed so much at George Bush as at his faithful ally, the conservative Spanish prime minister, Jose Maria Aznar. "The Pope says no to war, the People's party says yes", "Aznar, Bush's doormat" and "USA global coup" were among the slogans on display.

"We don't understand the concept of a preventive war. The only preventive war is called peace," film-maker Pedro Almodovar told the Madrid march.

France

Between 300,000 and 500,000 anti-war protesters marched through some 60 towns across France on Saturday, many carrying banners declaring "Proud to be French" and waving US flags scrawled with the words: "Leave us in peace".

Police said 200,000 people attended a Paris march, the largest such gathering since the anti-National Front protests of last spring. Some 15,000 gathered in Lyon, 7,000 in Toulouse, and 5,000 in Strasbourg, Rennes and Marseille.

President Jacques Chirac said yesterday that "no option was excluded" if the UN weapons inspectors failed or were unable to complete their task, but a new survey found that 81% of the French wanted him to use the country's UN security council veto against any US-led military attack on Iraq.

Among those marching in the capital to support Mr Chirac's stance were some of his most bitter political opponents, including the Communist leader Marie-George Buffet and the anti-globalisation activist José Bové.

Germany

Berlin's peace march turned out to be five times bigger than expected by police and organisers - and twice as large as the biggest previous demonstration in post-war Germany.

By the time Saturday's protest reached its peak, an estimated 500,000 people were packed into the Tiergarten, Berlin's central park. Three members of Chancellor Gerhard Schröder's centre-left cabinet defied his express wishes and joined the march.

Italy

Rome's ancient monuments were draped with peace flags on Saturday and the city swarmed with anti-war campaigners, producing what organisers said was the biggest turnout in Italy's long history of mass popular protest.

The music of Bruce Springsteen blasted over a crowd of leftwing opposition politicians, film stars, Catholic church representatives, human rights groups and Iraqi exiles. March campaigners claimed three million pacifists "invaded" Rome. Police said the true figure was around 650,000, though it was "difficult to count".

The centre-right prime minister, Silvio Berlusconi, who has pledged Italy's support for a US-led war, made no official comment on the march. His deputy and leader of the far-right National Alliance, Gianfranco Fini, said the protests had brought the world no closer to peace because "ideological anti-Americanism" and "totalitarian pacifism" would not convince Saddam Hussein to disarm.

State television, RAI, did not broadcast the protest live, saying it would put "undue pressure on politicians".

Saddam Hussein's deputy prime minister Tariq Aziz, on a controversial trip to rally support for Iraq, was in Assisi to see the tomb of St Francis, the patron saint of peace. "May God the almighty grant peace to the people of Iraq and of the whole world," Mr Aziz, a Chaldean Catholic, wrote in the visitor's book.

Israel

The small turnout for Saturday's peace march through Tel Aviv confirmed that nowhere is there more support for an American attack on Iraq than in Israel.

About 1,500 people rallied at the Tel Aviv museum of art. Some were Arabs whose chants were anything but peaceful, with calls for retaliation against America and denunciations of George Bush and Ariel Sharon as terrorists more dangerous than Saddam Hussein.

Other protesters included Jews who focused their anger on the policies of their own government.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/feb/17/politics.uk

they tortured people until they said the words to back up the lies.

Ten minutes of Colin Powell in front of the UN and my stomach began to turn. I knew the years ahead would be a special level of Dante's Hell !

but karma is still gonna bite us on the ass for this.

Apologists and "forward-thinking" guilt deniers aside, we'll pay for it. At least, those of us with souls will. Forever.

..and what is more sick.. the main stream press knew and they went along with torture and the whole Bush agenda.

Torture.. unnecessary wars... spying on Americans.... the worst Recession in 50 years..

Yet.. America Yawns and gives George Bush a free pass on all crimes. I can't figure.

be shown some old threads about it. Maybe we need a separate DU that cannot be posted to, a "read-only" version of DU to reflect on.

Yeah, we had those motherfuckers figured out. We thought it was about the oil, but I'm not sure of the Why? yet. Maybe it was just about the money going to Halliburton, et al.

maybe i would have fought harder in convincing family and friends to NOT vote for bush and using the usual "war is wrong" reason.

Sy Hersch was writing about torture before Abu Ghraib! I remember him talking about children being tortured, and he was afraid, people who heard him speak about it said. And I saw him on tv once, telling someone, I forget who, that what was going on was unspeakable. And he was asked 'what should we do'? I'll never forget his response, he said 'I don't know, get another passport?' That scared me, I remember.

Sy Hersch, John Pilger and a few other heroic reporters were writing about what was going on regarding torture since at least early in 2004.

And NO ONE can say they didn't know after the nightmarish photos from Abu Ghraib were released, and we still haven't seen the rest of them. AND, I will not forget how this country treated the hero who found those photos and handed them over. Instead of being treated like a hero, he and his family had to go into hiding! That was the atmosphere of the country. The 'home of the brave, land of the free', where so many were so paralyzed with fear that they were willing to turn a blind eye to their government's most horrific crimes.

So, people who were online are not the only ones who knew. At least not after Abu Ghraib. But where was the outrage after those photos were released? I don't remember much. And I was so disappointed, I actually thought that would be the end of the Bush administration. Not only was it NOT the end, he won (yes, I know they stole the election again) but millions of Americans DID vote for him that very year!

We can blame the press, and they certainly deserve to be blamed, and those directly responsible, but the American people are to blame also, because they did not care, many refusing to even talk about it, or worse, excusing it. Only a small minority relatively speaking, really cared.

And that is why the torturers got away with it. It wasn't until they lost their jobs and their savings and were personally affected financially, that the American people finally were open to even discussing the horrors that they DID KNOW ABOUT for so many years. In fact, if that had not happened, the economy collapsing, there's a good chance, that despite everything else, John McCain and Sarah Palin would have won the election.

I gave up on the American people to be honest when I saw, even among my own friends and family, how little they were affected by the revelations of torture after Abu Ghraib.

Shame on all of them. People were being tortured to death while most Americans were watching American Idol and running up their credit cards.

That he had watched tapes the previous night that contained images of rape and murder, as well as what Rummy called blatant sadism. Rummy is the one who approved many of the tortures used.
In public testimony he said there was rape and murder. So when it was declared that the rapists and murderers will be uninvestigated and pre-pardoned, I was and am still very upset. Obama and Holder know there were rapes and murders, and they wish to 'look forward'?
Rape and murder. Admitted by Rummy in the halls of Congress. But they had a note from Yoo, so all is well, rape away, towel down, and come live next to American families.
I do not agree with the idea of letting such people go free, not at all.

that letting these people off the hook is just unconscionable. Rummy watched a torture session in Guantanamo Bay, airc. So, to hear him lie about being shocked by it all? It's just not believable.

I also remember Sen. L. Graham, after he watched the tapes (still not available to the public) during the Abu Ghraib hearings. He was white as a ghost and confirmed that what was on those tapes was appalling. He even got up enough courage at that time to tell Cheney to stop trying to interfere with the hearings and to 'let Congress do its work' (paraphrase).

But then, it all went away and he, Graham, voted for the MCA later.

There has to be a special prosecutor. All this needs to be thoroughly investigated, and they all need to be under oath. No more of the garbage we got in the 9/11 hearings where Bush/Cheney were coddled and allowed to testify in private and not under oath.

It's long past time to get this done and I hope the Obama administration understands that if we are a country of laws, no one is above those laws, and no, crimes such as these have no statute of limitations and it is not a question of 'moving forward'. The only way to do that is to deal with those crimes as they will not go away, no matter how forward we move.

Also, we are, as you pointed out, not just talking about 'stress positions' and water-boarding. Many died under torture in US hands.

Not to mention the doctors, psychologists et al who participated in these crimes.

Some did a more diligent job than others, but you can't force people to stop watching Fox News or reading nothing but the Free Republic.

Even those lunkhead consumers can't take refuge in that kind of argument. Just as an exercise, I went to the MSNBC site for instance one day and did a search on their article search engine. The word torture alone yielded over 200,000 news pieces. I didn't even bother with "harsh interrogations" or "detainee abuse", which probably would have doubled or quadrupled the hits.

AFAIK, the ACLU is one org that absolutely led the way in giving both MSM and alternative media the tools to report the wealth of FOIA that has been made available to the US and the world for YEARS on this subject.

http://www.aclu.org/safefree/torture/torturefoia.html

Wow!!! Talk about the 'domino theory'. Everything we talked about here on DU for the last 8 years. All our worst suspicions are turning out to be true. Everything the MSM glossed over and tried to cover up. Where will this lead? Where will this lead? Their house is crumbling, imploding, coming down on them. Who will it take out in the process? Who will join in the razing of BushCo?

This is really getting interesting. You couldn't write a novel better than what is unfolding here right before our eyes.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Before the illegal invasion of Iraq, and we were ridiculed with a "who cares what they think?" insult (plus all other insults thrown at us).

We knew, indeed.

The base may be out there defending torture with every breath, but they know the shit is hitting the fan. Half of DC is probably lawyering up right now. All we gotta do is keep yelling.

what if the soldiers don't find anything after the U.N. Inspectors get kicked out? If the soldiers found something then they entered the area for nothing. If they didn't find anything then the soldiers' presence was essentially an act of war (which it turned out to be).

First, the news is on sites more reality based than the MSM.
Second, we read them and spread the word.
Third, we are called paranoid, conspiracy theorists.
Four, MSM breaks news long after it matters.
Five, everyone says its old news and wants to move on.

Some of my family members surely thought I was being overly dramatic. In the early days of the former administration my son called it the Fourth Reich.

I knew, I'm from Canada and those of us who spoke up about it to many down there were threatened, laughed at and called all sorts of names. Canadians crossing the border to shop as we had been for years had their tires slashed, windows broken and paint scratched, right after Chretien stated we wouldn't be joining Bush's coalition of the lied to and bribed. My sister was one of those who had to spend thousands getting her car fixed. Oh yes, we knew. It broke our hearts that so many didn't seem to care, knowing how many innocent people would die and that Iraq, the Cradle of Civilization, was about to be destroyed - for Bush's greed and empire. We knew, and we were sick, when it was clear the innocent were being tortured, we were horrified.

And thank you for saying so. This thread has been overdue.

and Cheney and anyone else they can get into the orange jumpsuits over there. Waterboard, lock up with bad insects, whatever they feel is appropriate.

I think Rummy needs a taste of his own foul medicine (and Cheney has been ASKING for it for years!)

They were playing both sides
of the fence, acting with
"plausible deniability".

The REAL failure of democracy
will come with the failure of
the new administration to expose
AND charge those who used the cover
of war to profit from the carnage.

I hope that they don't get away
with this, but I'm not holding
my breath.

Someone asked me (during that time) what the hell we can do about it. My answer is COMPLAIN. Those who didn't complain are in some ways as responsible as those who did it. Every movement starts somewhere. many of the times its just that someone had the courage to speak up. But someone has to start it.

And most of us here did everything we could do. Which wasn't much. But our hands are clean.

End Rant.

They were selling it to a far more dense; base demographic with a reptilian fight-or-flight response scheduler much easier to tune-in with the towers still smoldering so yeah...

We knew. But not only did others not know they still bought it hook line and sinker sight unseen

...fed them the monkey-poo propaganda from bu$hit, Inc. didn't know (well, the media DID know but just lied for the Republicans, as per usual).

... and I knew I didn't know the half of it. Along with untold thousands of my fellow citizens I petitioned and marched and yelled and helped set up informational town halls. I spoke at the City Council on behalf of the Bill of Rights Defense Committee and the Vets for Peace.

You're absolutely right, Stinky: WE KNEW.

And if insignificant people like us knew the facts, there is no excuse on Gods Earth for those in power to plead ignorance.

Hekate

eom

a bond of common thought regarding what has has happened to us as a nation these last 8 years.

I am now hopeful, no matter the humiliation of the country, that we are finally taking some action against the worst bunch of evil people since Hitler and his minions. The deeds done in our name are unforgivable. The stink will never go away. If the former administration is brought to justice, maybe we will be able to cope personally with all they did.

If they are brought to justice, maybe we will begin to have faith is the good our country can do, not remember just the horror done in the name of "democracy".

I believe the slow and careful steps being taken by the Obama administration is the right course. Do it right the first time. The disclosures and hopefully, the prosecutions, will be hard to go through but harder still would be living with what we all knew.

Gobama

and I ain't shutting up about it ,either.

Fucking war criminals.
Its because of shit like this that I support the death penalty.

None of these recent "revelations" has been a surprise to me. These are things we knew about all along. Now "America" is finding out how right we really were.

Who "hates the troops" now, republican scum?

It's why we really can't just be quiet and go along.

and so they could all keep playing their sick little games that their nice nazi friends taught them. or was it the other way around?
yes, we knew about the bybee memo. we knew about john yoo.

and we know that there is more to come. the deaths are slowly being made real to the masses. when will the torture of people' families be also vomited forth? the teenage prisoners? the rapes?

sometimes i get tired of being right. sometimes i get tired of telling my skeptical family that, yes, i tried to tell you. but i think my president will let it all come out.

It always does. That is why many here were against doing that.

Don

All lies and forced confessions. Complete bullshit.

and were not silent, and still are not as others continue to explain why a note from home allows one to relinquish one's humanity without repercussions.

We knew. We absolutely knew. Yes, we did. And you are right. This shall not be allowed to be swept under the rug. We knew and we were not silent. We need to exorcise the ghost of Nixon and his cronies from the halls of power. Cheney, Rumsfeld, and others cut their teeth in Nixon's administration. We cannot let this go, as we did Watergate. The crimes grow bigger as these people have come to feel entitled to lawlessness and have escaped real repercussions. They are also training a new generation to follow in their footsteps. While we are at it, we also need to slap some of our own people upside the head or replace them because they roll over everytime they are confronted by this ugliness.

the Bush administration had been blackmailing legislators with dirt gleaned from wiretapping. Hmm.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

I have always said that the worst you can imagine about the Bush Administration is not bad enough.

and we "know" about the towers as well.

...and were dismissed as hysterics in some cases. When dealing with politicians, always assume the worst and you'll rarely be disappointed. And we let these folks run the country?

but,,,, yes, yes,,,, we knew

leveymg's Journal - THEY KNEW: Tenet reveals late August '01 ...THEY KNEW: Tenet reveals late August '01 meeting w/Bush, Rummy, Condi, Gens. Meyers/Pace. Posted by leveymg in General Discussion ...
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/leveymg/258

Oh yeah, all of us.

I researched cheney's voting record while he was a member of congress and what he did unders Ford and I knew then!

Some of us have been fighting this fight since Nixon was President.
I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of the people that are posting on this thread have just witnessed what Republicans are really all about for the first time.
So what are you going to do to insure that Republican never happens to this country again?

I don't think so.

And that banner said Mission Accomplished!

I trust the authorities!

Beginning with Gore's tepid response in Nov. 2000... remember how he insisted that Jesse Jackson's civil rights attorneys stay out of Florida ... remember how with 24 hours before the Supreme Court hearing Warren Christopher dumped Lawrence Tribe, the country's preeminent constitutional scholar, and replaced him with David Boies a corporate litigator who by his own admission knew next to nothing about constitutional law ...
remember how the FBI warned that there would be a massive attack in the summer of 2001 ... remember how Bush's poll numbers had been tanking, the news about a breach in the code as Bush was about to board Air Force One on his way back to Washington? Remember the Secret Service saying it had received an anonymous call: “Air Force One is next.” ... meaning the caller had the agency’s secret code ... and then denying the story. Remember how Bush heeded Cheney's advice to stay out of the Capital and went flying around the country without a military escort. Remember how scared Bush looked those first few days before he turned belligerent and much more cocky? Remember the stories that would show up and promptly disappear. Remember how most major newspapers basically ignored the massive protests leading up to the Iraq invasion... remember the reports of Iraqi women and children being raped in Abu Ghraib... remember the candlelight vigils decrying the war and then the torture... remember the anthrax before Congress approved the Patriot Act... remember the Military Commissions Act of 2006 redefining torture and signed by over 50 Democrats in the House and Senate right before the midterms? Remember. I do. The hole is that deep.

I've heard things since late 2002. I've protested, written letters and emails and called. Finally, proof is coming out, but I'm not holding my breath about prosecutions. In law school, I had to write extensively about the rights everyone had; when I asked the professor what to put in light of the information coming out, he said, just put what I taught you. That stuff will be taken care of - the professors believed that.

We must see that torture, a.k.a. "enhanced interrogation," ends - period - never to resurrect its ugly head - ever again - NOW.