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Journalist bets he can stand waterboarding for 15 seconds (Video)

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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 03:17 PM
Original message
Journalist bets he can stand waterboarding for 15 seconds (Video)
A Playboy journalist bet he could withstand 15 seconds of waterboarding by a trained US soldier. Watch to see how it turned out.

Give the video a couple minutes to load after you click play.
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Lisa0825 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
1. oops... started to watch but it said "playboy original video."
That might flag my computer with our netadmin! :scared:

I'll watch from home instead!
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
2. jesus. the soldier doesnt think its torture. jesus. nt
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Hey, the guy may have been Ranger or SF trained. If active duty, he could not legally
do "water boarding" because according to his regs, it is torture.

Yes, they make some Marines and Soldiers endure such procedures because they may become caught behind enemy lines.

One thing about torture is EVERYONE eventually talks, or they will die if the methods continue.

Even the hard corps troops know that they will eventually BREAK, everyone does but what is said is "ranting" of what you think that the interrogator wants to hear, not necessarily the truth. Given that Al Quaeda is so decentralized and dispersed, there's RARELY (if ever) much need for evoking the ticking-time bomb scenario. :eyes:
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. What about the recent guy who was waterboarded...
...182 times? Looks like he didn't talk (was it Khalid Mohamed?).

After watching this video, I have no idea how he kept himself from talking.

My heart was pounding just watching the lead up to the waterboarding.

Sick to watch my country engage in these evil, horrific actions--when they all know damn well how wrong and
unAmerican it is.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #7
17. The former CIA senior agent on Mathew's show said that K. Mohamed had probably
accumulated so much carbon dioxide in his brain that he's now close to "a vegetable" due to oxygen starvation.

I'm so angry and ashamed of what the former Administration did in OUR NAME. :grr:
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #17
26. So, do we know where K. Mohamed is now?
I'm sorry if I missed this, but has anyone demanded to know where K. Mohamed is and
what his condition is?

Your post sent shivers down my spine. To contemplate the pain and suffering...is horrific.
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NeedleCast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. I question whether that guy is a soldier
He's wearing fatigues with no name tape, no markings at all. The uniform he's wearing is out-dated, although maybe still "proper uniform" in some areas, I believe just about everyone has the computer pattern BDUs now. I also question why he's wearing a mask if this is a legitimate interview/test being conduced by military personnel.
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #12
23. It was probably for Added Realism...
I assume if you really do get waterboarded, the people who do it are masked.
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #2
31. If he's Special Forces with SERE training he's been waterboarded during training.
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #31
39. Yeah, during training on how to resist torture
not during traing on how to interrogate. SERE training demonstrates waterboarding as a bad thing the enemy might do to the trainee. Not as something the trainee might do to anyone, ever.
Just be clear about that.
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. Not saying he was trained to do it.
Just that he probably wouldn't look at it as torture to a volunteer in a controlled setting.

David
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. One can volunteer to be tortured
some do so for kicks. So the distiction is important. The fact is that the practice has long been established as torture, the US has prosecuted people for it in the past, and how an individual might 'look at it' does not change any of that. It is torture. Some folks look at whips and chains as a date night activity, that does not change the fact that whips and chains in a detainee situation are always torture. How you look at being whipped matters not.
Lots of right wingers going around saying 'we waterboard in training' as if we were training people to waterboard, not to endure a possible torture at the hands of the enemy.
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. The journalist volunteered to be waterboarded.
I just doubt the soldier saw this as torture in this specific situation.

David
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
4. No need to watch the video
whether he made it or not he knew it wasn't real. He knew they would stop. Not sure what he was trying to prove but all he managed to prove is that he is a moran.
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Hassin Bin Sober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. "knew it wasn't real" Bingo!
I just want to put my foot through the TV when I hear the rethugs talk about how our Special Forces people go through that in training.

Big difference when you are certain it will end.
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. You're wrong about that
He knew and he couldn't stand it anyway.

That makes the point very well.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #9
19. Yeah, I wonder if he had volunteered to do this three times in a row, if he would
be *scarred* emotionally for life. Methinks ... yes.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #4
27. the video proved he was such a moran he didn't really understand the process. Must not be an
"investigative" journalist.

Such a moran he doesn't know that 15 seconds can be a very long time................

Such a moran he thought he could hold his breath...................

"I started taking yoga recently, I wonder if that will help............"

He thought it was gonna be an episode of Jackass.

:thumbsdown:

Yer right, no need to watch.
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
5. That soldier seemed emotionally flatlined...
What a schmuck, rationalizing that this is not torture, but (as he said) "evoking an existing fear".

What the hell does that mean, smartypants? Are you some 'big man' because you can dance around the obvious with
a few select words?

It's torture. When you feel certain that you will drown--as you are surrounded by masked soldiers who have
power over you--and you fear that you will never see your family or friends again---that's torture!

It's so sick.

It's so sick that any person, let alone a United States soldier would suggest that waterboarding is not torture.

We sound like frickin lunatic, ignorant Nazi scumbags when we talk like that. It's revolting, it's unAmerican, it's
immoral and it's ignorant.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #5
18. No, IMO, he was playing a role. People who have to go into an area ahead of others
have to be prepared for the worst. Not to say some are not antisocial, but others have morals but have to shut down in order to cope. :shrug:
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #5
25. His distinction seemed to be whether you're "invoking an existing fear" or "actual damage" and blood
"It's revolting, it's unAmerican, it's immoral and it's ignorant."

It's also shocking how stupid people have become.
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
6. He didn't make it 5 seconds. nt
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. I counted to three one thousand before he dropped it
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
10. I wonder if curling your upper lip over your nostrils could keep the water out. n/t
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Hard_Work Donating Member (283 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Possibly
I would imagine it would...if you knew it was coming. The purpose of covering your face is to disorient you; it heightens the fear and expectation.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. I bet the cloth keeps your lip away from your nose anyway. And compresses your nostrils open. n/t
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. I don't know anyone who has an upper lip long enough to cover their nose?
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RedCappedBandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #16
29. Let me introduce myself
:hi:

:silly:
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #16
30. I tried it, and I can "scrunch" my lip up high enough to partially cover my nostrils. n/t
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hyphenate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
15. Anyone remember the movie, Brainstorm?
If you do, you will remember what the US military wanted to do with the research done by Chris Walken and Louise Fletcher's characters--use it to torture and show recruits what they might be subjected to, including Fletcher's character when she had her fatal heart attack.

Using the machine's ability to instill any set of both physiological and mental change into an individual made it a usual weapon, even as much as the good characters showed its more enjoyabe side at the same time. The machine also was able to convey emotion itself, not necessarily bad emotion, but painful even, and love.

We are inching closer and closer to the science in Brainstorm, a movie 25 years in the past. We have managed to create virtual reality in many ways, but we haven't got the ability yet to make it physically real.

Regardless, that's what this video reminded me of--a scenario where reality and fiction merge, and it's difficult to determine what is happening, especially the sense of drowning in such a case. I'd fold after a lot less seconds than the reporter did!
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. Everyone emotionally breaks down and says "anything" ... or they die in the process.
EVERYONE - even "Jack Bauer" enthusiasts. :evilgrin:
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. .
Edited on Wed Apr-22-09 07:31 PM by omega minimo
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
20. .
Edited on Wed Apr-22-09 07:30 PM by omega minimo
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Lucian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
24. How can that "soldier" think waterboarding isn't torture?
It IS torture.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. He doesn't think. His script tells him it can't be torture unless there's "actual damage" & blood
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #24
32. Special Operations troops with SERE training are waterboarded during training.
So I'm guessing someone volunteering to have it done for the experience doesn't meet his standard of torture.

David
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. No, Special Ops and other "first alert" troops are trained to KNOW that torture will break you
down emotionally. They all experience the physical and emotional stressors in a controlled environment so that IF it ever occurs to them for real, they can "hold onto" that small part of themselves that assures them (remember their training) that their experience and fear is NORMAL.

Then, just perhaps, when they are released, they have been immunized against the worst effects of potential PTSD symptoms.

It's a way to tell people, NOBODY is immune to these horrific mental, physical and emotional experiences. THIS is how they will treat you and you are OK to be afraid - we are all human. :shrug:
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. Yes and that training involves waterboarding.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #24
33. That's part of the "Role Play" for teaching tolerance for torture. These methods have only ONE GOAL.
Edited on Wed Apr-22-09 08:51 PM by ShortnFiery
and that is, to *emotionally break down the subject.* Part of the torturers role is to behave in a manner that is both superior and indifferent to the prisoner.

"Interrogation" as it is taught by those who are talented and effective is conducted through a series of interviews. In fact, "Intelligence Interrogation" is basically a process and a skill.

Only the right wing-nuts desire to constantly EVOKE a ticking-time bomb scenario in order to EXTRACT retribution, confessions and simultaneously spreading FEAR to the general populace. For example, the torturing and murder of Union Leaders in Central America during the 80s kept the general public quite docile.

Torture helps provide FEAR and breaks down the prisoner's will as well as provides "a message" to a larger audience. It is a VERY INCOMPETENT way to obtain intelligence information. Further ONCE you invoke torture, you can not ever return to "the interrogation interview" because you have destroyed any hope of trust between you and the subject. If you want any further information, however bogus, you will have to repeatedly torture.
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BelgianMadCow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. "f you want any further information, however bogus, you will have to repeatedly torture." truth
183 times
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Yes, and now, because of all the oxygen starvation, the guy's probably "a vegetable."
Edited on Wed Apr-22-09 09:01 PM by ShortnFiery
Or if fortunate, a walking lobotomy. :(
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BelgianMadCow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. next, I imagine this happening on a routine basis
to the largely innocent prisoner population of Abu Ghraib.

And let's not pretend it's all about waterboarding either.

Somehow, it's easier to take today than it was at the time - now there is at least a fighting chance something will be done. Obama's first statement - close Guantanamo - which is where General Miller perfected the tricks he exported to Iraq - that was SUCH a winner with me.

I'm very wary because of the bailouts, but on this topic I think Obama has done a one-two punch. Releasing the memos feels like a landmark in the making.

Obama may well be erm conservative compared to me but I do think he HAS a moral compass and it's pointing in the right direction.

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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
40. No thanks. I prefer porn that has sex in it, rather than violence
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Born_A_Truman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
44. Can't watch
Where's the doctor? When my husband was waterboarded at SERE school there was a doctor there. It is very serious and could kill you. Not something that should be done without medical supervision.
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