Former Apollo astronaut says UFOs and aliens are real

[Poiuyt]

Former astronaut: Man not alone in universe

STORY HIGHLIGHTS
He says governments are concealing evidence that extraterrestrials exist
The astronaut is from Roswell, New Mexico, the site of an alleged UFO crash
Mitchell: Roswell residents "told not to talk about their experience" by military

CNN) -- Earth Day may fall later this week, but as far as former NASA astronaut Edgar Mitchell and other UFO enthusiasts are concerned, the real story is happening elsewhere.

Mitchell, who was part of the 1971 Apollo 14 moon mission, asserted Monday that extraterrestrial life exists, and that the truth is being concealed by the U.S. and other governments.

===

Mitchell grew up in Roswell, New Mexico, which some UFO believers maintain was the site of a UFO crash in 1947. He said residents of his hometown "had been hushed and told not to talk about their experience by military authorities." They had been warned of "dire consequences" if they did so.

But, he claimed, they "didn't want to go to the grave with their story. They wanted to tell somebody reliable. And being a local boy and having been to the moon, they considered me reliable enough to whisper in my ear their particular story."

more -

http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/04/20/ufo.conference/index.html

[rcrush]

1. They have a base on the moon

Nasa blurs out the pictures.

[struggle4progress]

87. Yes, I heard that at a State Fair in 1970. I was innocently minding my own business, looking at some

exhibit or other, and then suddenly this nice lady was earnestly telling me all about how NASA had covered up the discovery of aliens on the moon. For some reason, I quickly lost interest in the nearby exhibits and managed to insert myself into a swarm of people headed somewhere else

[and-justice-for-all]

108. Luna? nt

[anigbrowl]

117. Even the ones from amateur astronomers in other countries.

I heard they have little gremlins that rub vaseline on people's telescope lenses.

[Norquist Nemesis]

132. Who is "they"?

The aliens or us?

[WI_DEM]

2. Other astronauts and pilots, etc have said the same. I think it's silly to think that in this huge

universe we are alone.

[Echo In Light]

5. I remember being taken aback upon hearing Armstrong or Aldrin, maybe both..?

...talking about seeing things back in their days of space exploration that they were apparently told not to discuss for many yrs

[JHB]

47. You may have HEARD it, but did they actually SAY it?

See my post 31 below. This is a subject with a lot of claims whose origins are as distorted as right-wing chain e-mails.

[Echo In Light]

57. I realize how the anti types go bugshit over this stuff...

I do remember watching it on one of those Discovery shows, or some such UFO-infomercial thing...but yes, it's old interview footage of one of those guys talking about seeing something following them, and that they were told not to make much of it.

For what it's worth I've really no concrete beliefs re UFOs or alien life one way or the other, so...just an observation, not exactly a well researched subject by me that I'm going to argue online about.

[JHB]

71. That sounds like the show discussed in #31...

...which was "First on the Moon: The Untold Story", originally on the Science Channel (but likely has made the cable rounds by now).

Sorry if this seem like "going bugshit" to you, but I'm sure you read below where one poster named a Holocaust denier to broadly attack counterarguments about the astronaut's expertise, and you yourself treated peer-review as a form of collusion to exclude rather than as a quality check (a charge that I usually hear from creationists).

Look at the link for what happend with that show: you got the impression that the Apollo 11 crew were told to keep it quiet, but a follow-up interview claims it was misleading editing. How many times do we have to deal with that on a daily basis about matters of much more immediate concern?

(edited to follow up on why this matters in everyday life)

[Echo In Light]

77. No. Just an observation of how "conspiratorial" subjects seem to attract extreme pro/con positions..

...on internet forums. And when, say, an ordinary individual opines in favor of lending credence to the 'conspiratorial' view, that person is usually attacked i.e "why should anyone listen to you since you, or your source, isn't an "expert?"

And conversely when such an individual does present info that stems from someone who works in correlating field (not suggesting that's necessarily the case in the OP's sourced subject) then naturally that particular "expert" isn't substantial/credible for those who make it very clear that they always side w/the mainstream, status quo position, versus the heterodox one.

It's a recurring online phenomenon that I suspect has much more to do w/each's psychological proclivities than it does achieving common ground. In my estimation it usually boils down to two primary views:

1) those who suggest that it's possible, or worth questioning/examining

and...

2) those who, and this is why I framed it as "going bugshit," derive inordinate enjoyment from assailing others as __________ (fill in epithet of choice) specifically because they do find it plausible, or worth examining.

I tend to side w/the latter group as I rarely trust the consensus "reality."

[JuniperLea]

92. "derive inordinate enjoyment"

This is the part that just freaks me out... why all the passion? Why do they care so much? The condescention only serves to make many other people question the isssue, imho.

[Atman]

14. Yes, but if we admit we're not alone, it totally hoses the religion/God thing

And God is a HUGE industry. It is more important to protect GodCo than to admit the truth.

.

[Echo In Light]

20. And it would disqualify a segment of the populace that many LOVE to hate on

[azmouse]

37. Not really.

I firmly believe in both God and an abundance of life on other planets. The two are not mutually exclusive.

[omega minimo]

134. Maybe he's still battling Yahweh Beard Guy instead of whatever god is.......

[Raksha]

49. It only hoses those aspects of religion that were fraudulent to begin with.

Fundamentalism and the literalist interpretation of the Bible. But a geocentric religion with a geocentric God (how ridiculous is THAT?) is a fraud from the git-go and DESERVES to die. Its demise is long overdue, in fact.

[anonymous171]

56. Uh no. The Pope recently stated that the existence of aliens is not contrary to religious belief.

[Fendius]

64. Well if the Pope said so..

Sorry, really, sarcasm aside, But the Pope has no credibility with much of anything IMO...

[Shell Beau]

155. Maybe not, but Catholicism is one of the biggest religions in the world.

[anigbrowl]

112. So? admitting we are alone does too

that is, admitting there probably aren't aliens hiding in the house up the street, not that thare are none out in the universe. I'm sure there are, but I've never heard a convincing explanation from the UFOnauts about why they should be particularly interested in our little planet. 'Aliens among us' is just 'Angels among us' with technology instead of magic. The contention that all our cool technology is of alien origin seems to me to indicate a fundamental(ist) ignorance of and hostility towards science.

[omega minimo]

133. how so?

[Shell Beau]

154. I don't think that is the only reason at all.

I know many people, some fundies, some not, but religious nonetheless, that believe we are not alone in this universe.

I think it is more about control and power.

[dysfunctional press]

30. there's a HUGE difference in believing we're 'not alone' and believing that we've 'been visited'...

and the 'huge universe' is the same reason- i think that it's pretty egotistical and even arrogant for people to think that we'd be of ANY particular interest to a species that had developed the technology to get here. let alone find us first.

[Uncle Joe]

45. If some extraterrestrial found or visited Earth, it may not have been because of us.

They could have just been exploring, looking for resources or other life forms just as we are.

[dysfunctional press]

52. if they'd posess the ability to find our planet and get here...

it's probably pretty safe to assume that they could find much better potential destinations.

[Uncle Joe]

58. The question is, what is better?

We can't say for certain as we've barely begun to scratch the surface in regards to space exploration ourselves, but we do seem to have a fair amount of water, at least for our solar system.

Maybe they never had dinosaurs dominating their planet for so long if at all and thus may be humanoids which evolved much sooner than us and they're just curious about us as we would be other animal or plant species.

They may also have crash landed, they may be exploring just for explorations sake.

The point is I don't view it as "egotistical" to believe extraterrestrials would or could land here, as the reasons for such an event could be endless.

[dysfunctional press]

95. some people must watch too many star trek type shows.

i strongly doubt that any extra-terrestrial beings would be just cruising around the galaxy, exploring the unknown just for the sake of exploring it. as long as the laws of physics hold throughout the universe- the kind of power/time needed to cover such vast distances make it extremely unlikely.

[Uncle Joe]

97. Some people may watch too much of FOX's The Family Guy, but I wouldn't hold that against them,

I enjoy the program myself every now and then, even though it's just a cartoon.

We've spent vast amounts of energy just getting to the moon for exploration sake, that's pretty much how every new journey starts out. However at some point this same trip will not require as much energy because of advanced technology and smarter methods of using our energy.

We have no idea what kind of power source an advanced species may require to travel by and it seems somewhat egotistical to base the entire universe's pace of evolution and technology just on our tiny blue marble perspective.

[dysfunctional press]

106. when we went to the moon- the journey had a specific launch point & destination...

which is a lot different than 'explorers' tooling around the galaxy enterprise-style, stumbling across new things/planets/species.

"We have no idea what kind of power source an advanced species may require to travel by and it seems somewhat egotistical to base the entire universe's pace of evolution and technology just on our tiny blue marble perspective."

which is why i said 'if the laws of physics hold throughout the universe'

[Uncle Joe]

140. It makes no difference whether we had a specific launch point or destination,

we went to explore it.

Columbus had a specific destination, that being India, but North American got in the way.

When I spoke of exploration, that's inherent in most all living species if, given the ability, and the proper environment either natural or artificial they expand. This is instinctive as it promotes survival of the species.

[dysfunctional press]

146. it makes all the difference in the world...err...universe.

the energy/supplies and especially time that would be needed to wander aimlessly through the vast empty expanses of space make the idea of 'star trek' type space exploration pretty much utterly ridiculous.
it does make for good 'escapist fare' on television though- as long as people realize that's all it is.

[Uncle Joe]

147. Again you're projecting our knowledge of technology and state of evolution to be universal

to all other life forms, this I find to be egotistical.

[dysfunctional press]

152. no- i'm assuming the laws of physics to be universal.

as i had previously stated.

[Uncle Joe]

158. Whether the laws of physics are universal or not isn't the point,

although it must be stated, there is much of the universe, that we still don't know the workings of.

The potential for advanced technology light years ahead of our own of which we can't conceive during this space time + evolution are the points.

At one point in our history or pre-history it took years to travel around the Earth, or it was literally impossible under the primitive technology of the day, this same task can now be done in hours or days.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

107. Giggity, giggity, goo!

That is all.

[JuniperLea]

93. It's never safe to assume... eom

[dysfunctional press]

94. although lots of people assume that intelligent extra-terrestrials exist and have visited the planet

not to mention the assumptions that even more make about the existence of mythological deities.

[JuniperLea]

100. Assume?

Or believe? Or have an open mind and would accept the idea? There is a vast difference.

[dysfunctional press]

103. belief in & assuming the existence of would be the same thing

"having an open mind and would accept the idea" is not belief.

with absolute proof- i would accept the idea as well.

[Raksha]

51. I have to tell you, I don't understand that argument AT ALL!!!

Re i think that it's pretty egotistical and even arrogant for people to think that we'd be of ANY particular interest to a species that had developed the technology to get here. let alone find us first.

I have seen that same opinion voiced on DU and elsewhere many times when the subject of alien visitations comes up, and I just don't understand it or agree with it. WHY is it "pretty egotistical and even arrogant" to think we wouldn't be interesting to a more highly evolved and technologically advanced life form?

I think we'd be hugely interesting to them, so interesting that they'd go to considerable effort to visit us, study us and even protect us. They probably see us as a primitive life form about to make a quantum leap in consciousness, about to abandon its crude superstitions and (to them) caveman technology and become more LIKE THEM. That has to be a MAJOR event in the galaxy and the universe...the coming of age of an intelligent species!

It doesn't surprise me at all that they'd want to witness this Great Awakening up close and personal.

[anigbrowl]

113. It's quite simple...

The universe is huge. Ginormously, mind-bogglingly so. It's unlikely that there is anything especially interesting or distinctive about us.

I think we'd be hugely interesting to them, so interesting that they'd go to considerable effort to visit us, study us and even protect us. They probably see us as a primitive life form about to make a quantum leap in consciousness, about to abandon its crude superstitions and (to them) caveman technology and become more LIKE THEM. That has to be a MAJOR event in the galaxy and the universe...the coming of age of an intelligent species!

Um...no it doesn't. Developmental stages in the life of a child are interesting to the child themselves and their parents or siblings, but there's about a billion kids on earth so the individual highs and lows of a given person's development are not of much overall significance. I mean, if I tell you that Chang Wushan, of Dongguag, China, aced her mid-month middle school math test today, does it really matter much to you? i don't think so.

[dysfunctional press]

153. wow.

"They probably see us as a primitive life form about to make a quantum leap in consciousness, about to abandon its crude superstitions and (to them) caveman technology and become more LIKE THEM."

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

you seem to be the kind of person who puts waaaay too much thought/effort/credence into this topic. okay...maybe "thought" is too strong a word.

star trek/wars/gate much?

[Sugarcoated]

65. I think it's amazingly egotistical

to suppose anything another species from somewhere in the universe would think.

[dysfunctional press]

96. that's your prerogative.

[Sugarcoated]

119. Ya think?

[dysfunctional press]

130. i said so, didn't i?

[Sugarcoated]

131. My non response

was mirroring your non response back atcha.

I've heard many a skeptic say we're arrogant to think they'd come here, or do this, or land here, or couldn't possibly whatever, etc., and the arrogance really lies in the attitude that one can presume to second guess another species thinks and their motivations, or what an advanced race can or cannot do.

[dysfunctional press]

138. and as previously stated-

that's your prerogative.

personally, i can't see any species that has the capability to find us and get here not making itself known to us unambiguously.
but then- i feel the same way about would-be 'supreme being(s)' as well.

[Sugarcoated]

142. How could you possibly presume to know what an advanced species thinks or what

their agenda is? We tag animals and study them and intellectually they're far below us. Don't we try to be as unobtrusive as possible when we photograph and film them so we don't alter their habits?

I don't know if we're being "visited" or watched, but I am open minded and humble enough to acknowledge that I don't know with absolute certainty if it is, or isn't, happening, nor could I even come close to getting in their head to know with any certainty what they may be thinking.

It is arrogant, though, for one to say they know what they're thinking or what they should do or not do. It it arrogance to think that it's possible they could be visiting our planet? Is it arrogant to at least listen to eye witness accounts that have no explanation, and have been studied by legitimate and serious UFO organizations, with an open mind? To tell these witnesses/abductees they didn't experience what they did, or to tell them what they saw was Venus or swamp gas is pretty damned arrogant, really.
When hundreds of people in Phoenix, and for hundreds of miles surrounding that area say they saw a football sized object silently fly at tree top level over their heads, and then witnessed it taking off at lightening speed, is it not arrogance to laugh at those people? Is it not arrogance to tell those hundreds of people it was the military dropping flares when they all saw a football field sized thing fly over their heads?

We must have very different ideas of what arrogance is, because it damn sure isn't having an open mind.

[dysfunctional press]

145. "legitimate and serious UFO organizations" -that's where you lost me...

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

btw- there is one field of thought that most if not all 'abduction' stories are actually instances of 'night terrors' and/or sleep paralysis.

http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/2005/09.22/11-alien.html
Alien abduction claims explained

http://www.nytimes.com/1999/07/06/science/alien-abduction-science-calls-it-sleep-paralysis.html?sec=health
Alien Abduction? Science Calls It Sleep Paralysis

http://skepdic.com/aliens.html
The Skeptics Dictionary: alien abduction

http://www.csicop.org/si/9805/abduction.html
Abduction by Aliens or Sleep Paralysis?

[Sugarcoated]

149. I've read about sleep paralysis in regards to alledged abduction claims

it seems to be the go-to all-purpose explanation, and while it may account for some, if you read individual cases on their own merits, do your homework, it doesn't satisfactorily explain all cases. By telling a UFO witness, or someone who says they've had an abduction described experience what they've experienced or seen, when said skeptic wasn't even there is not only unbelievably arrogant, but it seems to me you've done just that.

I see your redundant links and raise you a legit serious UFO organization, MUFON, http://www.mufon.com/mufon-history.htm It's a no-nonsense nationwide organization that has been keeping a record of sightings and the like since 1969.

I used to be fairly skeptical myself, until I actually read the cases. I don't know if visitation/abduction is really happening, though from all I've read and interviews I've watched I lean toward probably, but I don't propose to know, I only know it's possible. Presuming what another has seen or experienced, or telling them that they didn't, is, in fact, arrogant, condescending and close minded.

And I see your meant-to-be-mean emoticons and raise you some friendly ones :):):):)

[dysfunctional press]

151. i'm not really interested in researching the topic...

until/unless they decide to make themselves known to all in an unambiguous fashion- they don't exist, as far as i'm concerned...that holds true for aliens, god, and compassionate conservatives.

i've had a lot of sleep paralysis/night terror episodes myself- and they can be incredibly real.

[Sugarcoated]

156. I've had a couple of the night paralysis episodes myself, back in my twenties.

It's unfortunate that you feel that way about it, because not only is it a fascinating subject, but unless you read about these folks experiences and the facts surrounding them and follow those facts where they lead, your beliefs about it will be, I'd compare it to a Conservative who listens to Limbaugh and doesn't research what he says.

[luvspeas]

3. Spaaaaaaace Madnessssss!

Don't press the shiny red candy-like button!

[geomon666]

4. Can he resist?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaARoLhnkc4&fmt=18

[Echo In Light]

7. "The jolly, candy-like button"

[Sequoia]

18. I totally love Ren and Stimpy.

I wonder if aliens walk with us but make themselves look like us. Why don't they just come out and say "We're here!" Does our world leaders communicate with them and tell them to keep things under the lid?

[dixiegrrrrl]

99. Ask yourself: Does Cheney really *look* human?

[frylock]

61. we're not hitching anymore..

we're RIDING!!!

[Occulus]

85. Oh, my beloved ice cream bar! How I love to lick your

creamy center..... and your oh-so-nutty.... CHOCOLATE COVERING!

:D

[ArtVandelay]

6. Buzz Aldrin saw a UFO when he was on the rocket.

It flew next to him for a while. But I guess he was just a "layperson, non-expert".

[JHB]

31. No he didn't and never said he did

From the Bad Astonomy website (which debunks bad astronomy, doesn't supply it)
http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/tv/firstonthemoon.html
----------
My friend David Morrison, who is an astronomer at NASA Ames in California, answers questions sent in to the Ask an Astrobiologist website. He got this very question! Here's his answer:


I just talked to Buzz Aldrin on the phone, and he notes that the quotations were taken out of context and did not convey the intended meaning. After the Apollo 11 crew verified that the object they were seeing was not the SIVB upper stage, which was about 6000 miles away at that time, they concluded that they were probably seeing one of the panels from the separation of the spacecraft from the upper stage. These panels were not tracked from Earth and were likely much closer to the Apollo spacecraft. They chose not to discuss this on the open communications channel since they were concerned that their comments might be misinterpreted (as they are being now). Apparently all of this discussion about the panels was cut from the broadcast interview, thus giving the impression that they had seen a UFO.
The service and command module stack that sent the astronauts to the Moon was inside the SIVB booster. The SIVB had four panels which opened up like flower petals to release the crew, as shown in this illustration:



The panels were ejected, and would follow roughly the same path as the astronauts themselves. The panels were curved, and as they rotated would present different profiles to the astronauts, explaining the different shapes Michael Collins claimed he saw through the telescope.

There's your UFO, folks.

But, far worse, is what Buzz said to Dr. Morrison about the interview. The show took his words out of context to make it seem like they were seeing a UFO. That is unforgivable! I understand that TV folks want to inflate some stories to make them more dramatic, and I also understand small errors like the ones I outlined above. But quoting out of context is basically lying, and is truly awful.

-------------------

[bdamomma]

8. this one comment tells it all,

".......and that the truth is being concealed by the U.S. and other governments".

what else is new? truth being concealed.

[Medusa]

41. Sounds like more paranoria to me

I just don't believe in UFOs, sorry.

[raccoon]

9. It would sure be nice if they'd help us with some of our problems. nt

[ArtVandelay]

10. Maybe they could disable all of our nukes. nt

[backtoblue]

15. +1

nt

[Sequoia]

21. Now, now...we'll not have none of this Day The Earth Stood Still peacenic stuff.

Ha, just kidding. That was the greatest Sci-Fi movie. The original. I don't care to watch the new one.

[gort]

35. I hated the remake

They made my ass look big!

[glitch]

88. maybe they already have... :) nt

[Poiuyt]

23. To serve man

[raccoon]

46. well, that would help us with the population problem. nt

[Skip Intro]

124. Maybe they have a "prime directive." nt

[Orsino]

11. As usual, the "evidence" turns out to be yet another anecdote. n/t

[onehandle]

12. Here is why he's full of shit and why UFOs and "aliens" have never been here.

And many scientists agree.

It's easy to believe that life exists on other worlds knowing the vastness of the universe.

It's difficult to believe that other life forms have been here knowing the vastness of the universe, and the incomprehensible scale of the resources and technology it would take for interstellar travel.
______________________

Personally, I believe that if they could get here, they would either help us or consume us. Immediately.

Show us proof, Mr. Mitchell.

[Mz Pip]

17. That's my belief as well

Also I can see no reason why the government would keep this a secret. What would be the point? If they exist, they don't seem to be a threat, they don't seem to be bothering anyone. Why all hush hush?

I believe that people really do see things they can't explain. But it is a huge leap to go from that to being convinced that it is extraterrestrial in origin.

[azmouse]

39. And why would the aliens who traveled an immense distance

go along with our government in keeping their existance secret? What's in it for the aliens to remain hidden?
And what about other governments? Why do we Americans always assume that aliens would only land here?

[Raksha]

76. Personally, I think they're sick and tired of the cover-up.

And have just given our government and every other government their collective alien middle finger and said: "We are going to reveal ourselves in an incontrovertible way whether you like it or not, on such-and-such a date, so you'd better get busy declassifying a few stacks of documents."

Which they doing in Britain right now, and probably on this side of the Pond too.

[azmouse]

81. I don't think there is anything to cover up other than

overactive imaginations. Aliens have never been here.

[anigbrowl]

114. Sure, whatever.

Look, if they wanted publicity they could just land a ship in the middle of a major city. Anyone with the technology to cross interstellar distances and stay here for any length of time is perfectly capable of handling their own publicty, not to mention hacking all our communications satellites.

What would we use to keep them as unwilling participants in a cover-up - refusing to share the formula for Coca-cola?

[Doremus]

25. Personally, I believe that if they could get here, they would either help us or consume us.

Immediately.


Rather fallacious to deny their existence at the same time you're presuming to know their motivation isn't it?

<snicker>

[jesus_of_suburbia]

27. Scientists think it could be possible to warp the space-time fabric

in order to travel great distances.

Imagine folding a sheet of paper together so that a spot on the top of the paper meets a spot on the bottom of the paper. You no longer have to travel the distance in between.

Can it be done? We don't know yet... but it could be possible. Never say never.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

28. Riiight.

Aliens are warping space and time so they can come here and probe the anuses of loonies in secret. With the help of the government.

[dysfunctional press]

32. and why would our insignificant little planet be of any interest to a species with that technology?

the egocentricity of mankind knows no bounds

[jayfish]

55. Said One Amoeba To Another. -NT-

Jay

[Amonester]

42. Let's imagine they learn new technologies as quickly as we do...

but instead of beginning to learn them since 500 years or so, they did it since 10,000,000 years (and that's a 'small' period on a 'universal' scale), I have no doubt they could have 'discovered' how to 'travel' between Galaxies a very, very long time ago.

I also believe "many of 'em" already 'tried' to 'contact' (and "some" of these 'contacts' are kept secret)

[onehandle]

63. see reply #62 . nt

[jayfish]

54. So, We Can See Out About 13.5 Billion Light-years Out.

You're saying that a civilization with a, oh let's say, 9 billion year head start on humanity wouldn't be able to implement a means of interstellar travel? Laughable at best. And what's with the incomprehensible stuff? It all pretty comprehensible actually. There are many theoretical paths to FTL travel. We just don't have the Wherewithal to do it ourselves and survive the process. ...yet.

Jay

[onehandle]

62. I have that answer too.

First, recognizing that I said incomprehensible, not impossible.

I believe... Hell, I know that there are other intelligent species out there.

I believe that with enough time and if you survive the the age that we are currently going through. Then survive the age where galaxy bending technology is being developed...

You probably have little reason to come to our needle in a billion billion haystacks world and get caught peeking at us, much less administrating anal probes.

Now that may all conflict with my claim that "they" have never been here, but as I said. If they come here. They consume us and our rapidly depleting resources or they help us get our shit together.

I say again, Mr. Mitchell. Put up, or shut up.

[Amonester]

74. There are a lot of "resources" in this solar system to begin with.

I mean, "resources" of the entire solar system are not depleting as a whole, but I agree with you that they are on this "tiny little" planet we call Earth.

"They" may have a few "bases" on the moon, on Mars, and on many moons of Jupiter and Saturn we know nothing about (yet). If "they" do, they probably don't need to deplete any resource on Earth, and probably "enjoy" (if they can feel the same way we do) "observing" if we, little "primitive ants" (in their "view"), will manage to survive all the stupid "infighting" against each other and "grow up" to their "level" collectively (using a real "form" of 'socialism' for ALL, for example (or I wish so...)

[onehandle]

79. Ah. The Star Trek Utopia Theory.

Mmmmmaybe.

I see little chance of a UFP in our future. I hope I'm wrong.

[NM Independent]

126. "What's" "with" "all" "the" "quotes?" n/t

[jayfish]

118. Mr. Mitchell's Story...

is quite short on anything resembling detail let alone evidence. I agree that it's meaningless. The discussion of his story here, for me anyway, is a chance to opine over topic as intelligently as possible. That being said; you quite unequivocally stated that "UFO's and aliens have never been here". That's about as credible an argument as Mr. Mitchell's story is proof. As far as why they would be interested in us; who says they are? We are in a nice spot far outside the galactic core. This arm of the Milky Way could be a weigh station to parts unknown. We might be as inconsequential to them as roaches at a motel are to us. I'm also not referring to any "anal probing" or anything else in the realm of alien abduction. I don't remember any mention of it in the Mitchell story either.

Jay

[Lorien]

105. It must be nice to be so certain of your own beliefs

there were large numbers of humans who once laughed at the idea that the earth was anything but flat. Just because something is outside of your personal experience or scope of knowledge does not mean that it hasn't happened and isn't happening still. I know PLENTY of scientists who believe that aliens life has and is visiting us. Most of the older astronauts claim to have seen UFOs, and there's plenty of footage out there if you just do a little digging.

[The Straight Story]

111. Seems a tad arrogant to me

They may well have ways to traverse those distances we have not thought of yet or been able to create.

Just because we have not been able to do so, does that mean no one else can or has?

[omega minimo]

135. Maybe they have "interstellar travel" you can't comprehend.

Why view it from an earth bound human perspective?

[Johonny]

13. wow with such convincing evidence

how can you argue against that?

[Pale Blue Dot]

16. Did you miss where it says he's an astronaut?

No further proof should be necessary. :sarcasm:

[Pale Blue Dot]

19. David Irving is a British historian. He also claims that the Holocaust never happened.

One's profession does not automatically make one's claims believable or correct. We must still examine the actual evidence that's presented.

In this case, there is none.

[Octafish]

22. David Irving didn't write this story.

So why bring him up? Is it to smear Edgar Mitchell?

Dr. Mitchell is one of the bravest and open-minded people in the public sphere. I wish there were more like him. If there were, we'd know a lot more about UFOs and who knows what else.

What is truly sad: Our planet seems populated with small-minded individuals who seem to think they know it all. Same goes for DU, huh?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

24. Are you familiar with the term "argument from authority?"

You're arguing that Mitchell's loony claims about UFOs and aliens has weight because he's an astronaut.

Which is like saying Irving must be onto something because he's a historian.

[Echo In Light]

34. To play devil's advocate, most anti-conspiracy crusaders rely heavily on the "peer reviewed" ideal

In other words, if one hasn't a career in a specified field pertaining to whatever the conspiratorial subject matter is, than it's easy to dismiss their analysis out of hand.

Or, conversely, even if such a person's profession is in that field, they're likewise dismissed via "argument of authority."

That's a rather tidy, convenient framework for anti-conspiracy types to work within.

Personally, I suspect that if other sophisticated life forms from 'out there' were here, we'd likely be aware of it ...but who knows? I try to keep an open mind, and it does seem rather implausible that out of all the 'space' beyond, we're the only ones of are kind. But I rather doubt "they're" here to slaughter cows and perform the notorious "probes."

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

36. LOL

Peer-review?

Peer-review has got to do with the review of evidence. There still has to be evidence involved for peer-review to work: reproducible, double blind evidence with all the proper controls. Furthermore, peer review works because the peers are experts in the field.

Being an astronaut isn't an expert in the field of UFOs and aliens any more than a guy who's got the high score in Space Invaders.

This Mitchell character has also claimed that a mystic remotely healed him of undiagnosed kidney cancer. That's certainly out of this world, but has nothing to do with peer-review.

[NeedleCast]

38. As A Guy who Rocked at Space Invaders

I can say with a high degree of certainty that alien spacecraft often look insectoid in nature and travel in geometric ways.

Left
down
right
down
left
down, speed up
right,

etc.

[Echo In Light]

50. Not what I was addressing specifically, but it's clear you'd disagree either way

[TK421]

143. I currently have the highest score in Space Invaders

just sayin

[Octafish]

86. Are you certain UFOs and aliens are loony?

One of the pioneer UFO researchers has a most interesting observation about certainty:

"It reminds me when Galileo was trying to get people to look at sunspots. They would say the sun is a symbol of God; God is perfect; therefore the sun is perfect; therefore spots cannot exist: therefore there is no point in looking."

-- Dr. J. Allen Hynek

I don't claim to know what UFOs are. The idea that some of the reports are sightings of vehicles occupied by visitors from an alien planet, however, is a bit simple for my understanding of the subject.

What I do claim is that people have reported UFOs for centuries -- for details, read Dr. Jacques Vallee's Passport to Magonia. In more modern times, UFOs have been photographed and recorded on radar. Their presence has affected automotive power and radio systems. They've also left behind physical traces, from broken tree limbs to severe burns on witnesses.

The late Dr. Hynek coined the term "Close Encounters of the Third Kind." His work, The UFO Experience is a good read for those interested in learning about the subject.

Online, a good starting place is the organization founded by the former consultant to Air Force Project Blue Book:

Center for UFO Studies

Happy landings.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

91. There's an important difference between Galileo and UFO nuts.

Galileo had evidence.

[jayfish]

120. Hindsight Is 20/20 . What Evidence Did He Really Have That Could Not Be "Debunked"...

by the authorities of the day? One could say he had less.

Jay

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

122. Well, they could reproduce his experiment.

Not terribly difficult.

http://www.spaceweather.com/sunspots/doityourself.html

[Puzzler]

26. Yeah... Mitchell has been going on about this for years.

.

[cwcwmack]

29. I'm curious to see what's in the files...

Maybe Obama will crack 'em open for us all to see.

[NeedleCast]

33. Just One Clear, Definitive Picture

You'd think with all the UFO sightings and believers out there that just one of them could come up with a picture that didn't look like it was taken with a camera phone from 300 yards.

[Octafish]

43. Here's one...

From a series taken by Rex Heflin, a government employee:



At noon on August 3, 1965 highway traffic engineer Rex Heflin was driving near the Santa Ana freeway when he saw a UFO. He stopped and snapped three Polaroid shots of it (plus a fourth image of a circular cloud left as the object departed). He reckoned it was 750ft (225m) away, at an altitude of 150ft (45m), and 30ft (9m) in diameter. Although Heflin did not report the sighting, on 20 September the Santa Ana Register published the photos.

DETAILS

Note the dust standing up on the ground, directly underneath the object.

[Amonester]

48. Beginning at 02:15:

Link is from the Disclosure Project http://www.disclosureproject.org/

Vid. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8285709939745631584

[Octafish]

53. Frederick Valentich

The JAL case reminds me of the Valentich case. What people need to know: UFOs are not just "in the mind."

Thank you for the info and links, Amonester. Going by the first 11 minutes, yours is a very interesting, well-made video. It's been a while since I've had the chance to get up to speed on the subject. It is most maddening.

[Amonester]

78. I, personally, saw 'UFOs' in a few 'unrelated' circumstances.

One in particular just left me absolutely 'stunned' out there because of the 'almost unbelievable' "morphing shapes" of the two 'flying objects' AND their "un-Earthy" behavior, so I sure "know" anything and everything 'is' possible.

Thanks for that link, Octafish. :-)

[NNN0LHI]

110. Sure looks like a hubcap to me

[anigbrowl]

115. Must be some new use of the word 'definitive'...

[Octafish]

123. Heflin said it was about 35-feet across.

Here's a composite of the first three pictures:



Here's the last shot, the smoke ring:



I don't know what it was, but given the eyewitness's account, credibility and his Polaroids, I doubt it was a hubcap.

[jayfish]

60. Here Are Some Interesting Videos.

A few of the clips appear to be dubious but many are pure :wtf:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sofwHQejYQw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oMz8osnNXY


Jay

[ellie]

40. I love this story!

It reminds me of the scene in Slacker when the young guy leaves the coffee shop and is accosted by the UFO buff who proceeds to tell him about the "secret transmission" heard by people with the "special radios" during the first space walk. And then he says, "I see you are in hurry. Things are speeding up here at the end. What a day. What a day."

God I love that movie. Anyway, GO ALIENS!

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

44. I Definitely Believe Aliens Exist, Am Uncertain If They've Been Here, And Know For Certain That His

story means jack shit.

I had been hoping for something a little more convincing. Something like he had been an astronaut and seen them first hand, but was forced to cover them up etc. Instead, he's just another roswell resident caught up in the glory of it all who also happened to take part in some second hand anecdotal conversation with some official who 'said' that they exist. No proof, no new breaking information, nothing. Just another guy who says "there's life out there! They've been here! I know it!" but who offers such as just mere opinion with absolutely no substance nor evidence to back it up. Color me way disappointed in this article.

[Spike89]

59. Bailing wire and chewing gum spaceships

One reason I am highly skeptical of "visitor" stories is the inherent contradiction of highly advanced civilizations with the technology to cross light years getting to earth and having car trouble. Likewise, if they are trying so hard to be stealthy, maybe, just maybe we'd see one under extreme or odd circumstances, but no, according to UFO fans, there are hundreds or even thousands of verified sightings. Geez, we can't reach much beyond our own gravitational well, but we can do pretty good surveillance without being seen as often (how many blackbird sightings are confirmed?)

The reality is, logically it is an extreme stretch to believe inept aliens with super tech are visiting us. Of course, we could be some kinda interstellar roadside attraction and what we're seeing are a bunch of teenage aliens out cruising in the alien version of a jalopy, or perhaps bumbling parents with a space RV that got lost.

[Raksha]

67. Who says they are trying hard to be stealthy?

I don't frequent the UFO forums all that much, but they don't seem to have any interest at all in being stealthy. The show themselves to large numbers of witnesses at one time quite often. The fact that Big Media distorts these events in reporting them, always coming up with various "plausible" explanations for the phenomena (which strain credibility in themeselves) doesn't mean the ETs are making any attempt to conceal their movements. It is simply evidence of a cover-up.

[Occam Bandage]

69. And according to 100,000 people at Fatima, the sun exploded.

Eyewitness reports aren't worth half a shit. A strange meteorological phenomenon occurs, someone comes up with an explanation, and then the memory of everyone else conforms to that explanation, because the brain loves patterns.

[Raksha]

72. "Eyewitness reports aren't worth half a shit" - really?

It seems it all depends on WHAT those eyewitnesses are reporting. Eyewitness reports of a murder or traffic accident are given a certain degree of credibility. Maybe not absolute credibility--and they shouldn't be, because witnesses can be mistaken about what they observed, due to preconceptions, panic, etc. But the reports aren't automatically dismissed out of hand like UFO reports.

[Occam Bandage]

75. Eyewitness reports in court are well known to be extraordinarily unreliable,

and that is with things people can identify (being human) doing things that everyone can understand (like robbing a bank). When you have something people have never seen before, and they are doing things that they have never seen before, then it's just a mass of information waiting for something to poke it into place. The brain is very good at interpreting data and tricking the mind into thinking the interpretation is what it "saw." It happens all the time, often mundane. For example, I like baseball. Every once in a while when I watch a game, I'll think I see a foul ball fly off the bat--but on the replay, I'll see it was a foul tip into the glove of the catcher. My visual processing center misinterpreted the data, and my brain solidified it as an event as real to me as any other, despite not actually occurring.

I don't think it's a coincidence that there were plenty of sightings of gods and mythological beasts in antiquity, that there were tons of sightings of witchcraft and of miracles during the Medieval and early modern periods, of ghosts until somewhat recently, and of UFOs nowadays. There's always going to be weird shit people didn't quite understand, sometimes atmospheric and sometimes a trick of light or an unfamiliar animal. And I don't think it's a coincidence that the people who see weird shit are always absolutely convinced that the weird shit they saw was exactly what the popular explanations for weird shit are/were at the time. There weren't any UFOs in 1300, and there aren't any dragons now.

[anigbrowl]

116. I find UFO reports plenty interesting.

What I dismiss out of hand are the unsustainable conclusions and inferences some people insist on drawing from such reports. At lot of the reports are just straight descriptions - 'I saw a _____ shaped object in ____ part of the sky with _____ characteristics; it did _____ and then ____, before doing _____ and going out of sight.' well awesome, that's a piece of evidence that something occurred, and worth correlating and seeking an explanation for, with the proviso that individual skills at observation vary - could be an astronomical or weather phenomenon, could be this, could be that, so we have to consider all the prosaic explanations first.

I'm fine with that...what I'm not fine with is somone saying 'Oh yeah, must've been the greys because they always fly ships like that.' You might as well say 'That was the Archangel Gabriel, Michael always leaaves a trail of sparks in his wake' or 'Those are the hours of the god Apollo, he has been fighting the forces of Hades these three days past'.

[Spike89]

84. Not attempting stealth, check...but

OK, they don't care about us seeing them, but why in the world don't they actually study us. There is no plausible reason they'd need to get that close, but wouldn't/couldn't land. A cover up by world governments simply beggars belief. Seriously, the USSR wouldn't have chosen to embarrass the U.S. by outing our secrets back in the 50s, 60s, or 70s? The Chinese, the French, the Australians, Peruvians? Who is in it, what possible common benefit is a coverup to these competing, changing, and diverse countries?

None of this adds up to a rational story. Possibly aliens have been here, but if so, they decided we were too common and left. They wouldn't have done a pointless fly-over to give us a thrill.

[Warren DeMontague]

66. "extraterrestrial life exists": EXTREMELY likely.

"the truth is being concealed by the U.S. and other governments." Doubtful IMHO.

[mvd]

73. Well, here's my opinion

"extraterrestrial life exists": certain

"the truth is being concealed by the U.S. and other governments": likely. I don't trust the government to tell us anything big on aliens for a long time, if ever.

[Raksha]

82. Well, if they'd lie to us about Iraq's WMDs,

why WOULDN'T they lie to us about ET visitations?

[Warren DeMontague]

102. That's not a statement on the likelihood of the gov't telling us the truth

that's a personal statement of opinion on the likelihood of interstellar travelers showing up in the last 50 years, presumably in ships which bear a remarkable resemblance to hubcaps when photographed.

[Occam Bandage]

68. He's a woo-woo who lost all traces of sanity before he was launched into space.

1. He claims his cancer was healed by a teenage "remote healer," despite his never having been diagnosed with cancer. He also claims his mother was healed by a Tibetan shaman.

2. He attempted to conduct a private ESP experiment in space, which was something of an embarrassment for NASA. When the woos realized that the entire experiment was destroyed by the fact that he and the people on the ground were performing their "simultaneous mental links" at entirely different times, they decided that it was now an experiment in precognition.

3. He claimed that Uri Geller demonstrated teleportation for him, and successfully teleported two tie-pins to him that he had lost during the trip. He also asked Geller if he could teleport a camera he left on the Moon.

His claims that "someone told him" that there was a cover-up are dubious at best. Who cares if he was shot into space? That has nothing to do with his claim.

[carlyhippy]

70. Part of Roswell's economy is keeping this story going

There is a UFO museum, blow up aliens in all the storefronts downtown, etc. They have a great time with the whole alien thing, and it brings in curious tourists.

I do believe that there are aliens, we would be very shallow to believe we are the only life out there. And if intelligent life came to observe us from another galaxy, they probably observed for a while, said "what a bunch of fools, killing their own kind and destroying their planet", and left, shaking their heads, not recommending us to their galaxy's tourism boards.

[NM Independent]

129. Here in Roswell that's our only real tourism draw. It wasn't until the early 90's

that they actually started promoting it on a large scale. The annual festival in July is always fun, and the Int'l UFO Museum & Research Center has been a big draw as well (even though I don't care for their treatment of local artisans).

I even get in on some of the action myself with very high quality gift items I sell at the festival.

It's always fun to answer the inevitable question (What do you think of UFO's?) when people find out where I'm from, or if I'm talking to tourists here. - "They don't let us talk about it much." - with a deadpan expression. You wouldn't believe some reactions I've recieved.

[mmonk]

80. Ever read "Demon Haunted World"?

[ulysses]

83. man not alone in universe - no problem.

We're probably not. It's just too bad he didn't stop there.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

89. Tang and Vodka?

[gulfcoastliberal]

90. K&R. Obviously the gov is lying. At the very least these phenomena deserve close scientific study.

I think a lot of people still believe deep down that we're the center of the universe.

[RedCloud]

98. Space aliens will not bow down to the USA.

No way they will care, much less cooperate with the "government". The government has what 25,000,000 people working for it? Try to keep a secret that big from that many mouths.

On the other hand if alternate universes exist we may have space aliens near us a lot more than they or we even know and don't get me started on the other dimensional forms.

Hoping you do not suspect I am with THEM, I am

Red Cloud

[wroberts189]

101. Some fascinating facts regarding Mitchell... sixth person to walk on moon

Edgar Dean Mitchell, D.Sc. (born September 17, 1930) is an American pilot and astronaut. As the lunar module pilot of Apollo 14, he spent nine hours working on the lunar surface in the Fra Mauro Highlands region, making him the sixth person to walk on the Moon.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Mitchell

---------------------------------------------------


"lunar module pilot of Apollo 14, he spent nine hours working on the lunar surface"

In my world that buys you some serious credibility.

k&R

[BlooInBloo]

104. That's nice.

[and-justice-for-all]

109. I would very much like to believe this is so...

but without empirical evidence, I can not do so.

Do I believe there is other intelligent life in the universe? absolutely. I consider every star a roll of the dice, a chance for life to develop elsewhere..be it intelligent or simple, simple life I think thrives more dominantly, intelligent life has lots of hurdles to over come. But its there...I hope.

But one must consider this: If there are intelligent beings traveling through space, it is most likely that they are hostile.

[Truthbeknown]

121. One of the best cases I ever heard

was of 62 children in Zimbabwe who had a close encounter. They all had the same story and drew similar pictures. I recently read there is going to be a follow up documentary coming out soon about the children and what they are doing now. Here is a link to the original story: http://www.ufocasebook.com/2008b/1994zimbabwe.html

[and-justice-for-all]

127. bookmarked...danke...nt

[Skip Intro]

125. It's all but crazy to believe we are alone in the universe, but kukoo to believe in aliens.

What kind of logic is that?

[omega minimo]

136. yes let's call them peppermint bon bons.

[Hanse]

128. It's impossible to guess the likelihood of ET life.

A lot of people are saying beyond a doubt there's alien life out there, but that's a misinterpretation of the Drake equation.

Sure, the number of stars is huge, but until you can quantify every single variable, there's no way to determine the final number. It's entirely possible that the number of other life out there is zero.

[seemslikeadream]

137. Fifth Annual X-Conference CNN News Coverage APRIL 20, 2009

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yKhKgVpgBY

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

139. ever seen gary bauer?

proof positive that aliens exist and walk among us

[sarcasmo]

141. Kick back to the top since I can't rec.

[Regret My New Name]

144. Says the guy who helped fake a moon landing... Real credible.

teehee teehee teehee

[goclark]

148. I've not been paying attention ~ there was a fake landing?

:shrug:

[Regret My New Name]

150. Of course. We never actually went to the moon...

I read it on a website.

[MajorChode]

157. Not a good idea to mention that to Buzz Aldrin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOo6aHSY8hU

[Regret My New Name]

159. Yeah, I've seen that before...

I'm sure it gets tiring for him and others to deal with such things.