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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 09:07 AM
Original message
THE LARGER SCANDAL BEHIND WIRETAPGATE: Israeli Spying in the U.S.
Edited on Tue Apr-21-09 09:59 AM by leveymg
Harman-AIPAC-Gonzalez is really several scandals - Harman is actually the least of it.

One thing I couldnt quite figure out is why Jane Harman, an old Washington hand in the spy game, would talk on the phone about doing favors for AIPAC with a known Israeli espionage figure, reportedly Naor Gilon, who was FO-3, the foreign intelligence officer in the Larry Franklin case. She must have known such a chat would be intercepted by the NSA, particularly as the phone call reportedly occurred only a few months after Larry Franklin had been arrested for sharing classified information with two AIPAC employees.

Several reports identify the foreign intelligence figure Harman talked with as Naor Gilon, former Mossad Chief of Station in Washington. Didn't Jane know that the FBI has been legally wiretapping the Israeli Embassy, out of which Mr. Gion worked, for more than 30 years? Or, did she think that the taped conversation couldnt be used against her? It's not like the FBI had never seen AIPAC-related espionage out of the Embassy before. Jim Lobe, a reporter who has a long memory, recalls, http://www.newsfollowup.com/docs/aipac/shalom_center_ai...

In 1970, one year after he was hired by Senator Henry Scoop Jackson, an FBI wiretap authorized for the Israeli Embassy picked up Mr. Perle discussing classified information with an embassy official, while Mr. Wolfowitz was investigated in 1978 for providing a classified document on the proposed sale of a U.S. weapons system to an Arab government to an Israeli official via an AIPAC staffer.


Yes, that Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz.

It's widely known that NSA and FBI have been legally surveiling the Mossad Office in the Israeli Embassy for years. Decades. If Harman was overheard as part of that tap, she should have known better. If Harman indeed had this conversation with the Mossad Chief in DC, it's no surprise she was kicked off the House Intel Committee. That would have been a brazen and stupid thing to do.

***


Naor Gilon was the Mossad Chief of Station in DC implicated in the Indictment of Col. Larry Franklin, the DIA Iran analyst at Doug Feith's OSP who shared classified materials with AIPAC's Rosen and Weissman. He was also pal with New York Times reporter Judy Miller, who is believed to be referenced in the same indictment. See, http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/2/2/14024/94613

Galon fled the country shortly after the FBI espionage investigation into Frankin and AIPAC was leaked in May, 2005. That operation involved salting Pentagon files with Israeli-suggested materials about Iran's nuclear program was a catastrophe for Mossad, AIPAC, OSP, and the neocons. But, that wasnt the end of Naor's career. He's recently been appointed Chief of Staff to hard-line Israeli Foreign Minister Avignor Lieberman.

But, heres the thing: that conversation reportedly occurred five months after the lid blew off the Franklin case. Either Gilon (assuming it was Gilon) had snuck back into the country, or else he was abroad when the call occurred.

If Gilon made that call from Israel, under the FISA law as it was being interpreted at the time, Harman may have believed the tape should have been minimized, in other words, destroyed. You heard me right. See, Jane Harman is not only a Member of Congress, shes a U.S. Citizen. Before the 2008 FISA Amendment, which Obama voted to pass, the NSA was ordinarily required to minimize intercepts of international communications involving U.S. persons obtained without a specific warrant.

Harman may have believed, mistakenly, that calls from overseas couldnt be used against her on that account, and, secondly, because the NSAs own rules said that warrantless intercepts of the communications of federal officials are supposed to be minimized. Jane may have also believed, mistakenly, that then Attorney General Gonzalez wouldnt dare try to blackmail her with such a tape -- for any purpose -- given her, and the Bush Administrations, close relationship with AIPAC.

What Jane may have confused, however, was the difference between actual practice and black-letter of the law during the Bush years. In fact, NSA has apparently been retaining and analyzing a great amount of warrantless domestic data since 2001. Plus, theres the fact that Naor Gilon is also a known foreign intelligence officer. Harman may have forgotten that FISA law had been previously amended by the USA-PATRIOT Act so that authorized taps follow the suspected person, and do not just apply to any particular land-line telephone number, as they did in the dark ages when FBI agents had to climb telephone poles to affix taps to specific lines.

The same warrant that has been authorized over and over again for Gilon as a Mossad Station Chief, most likely was still valid in November 2005, even though he had left the country. Besides, there was nothing illegal about tapping Gilon in Israel, even without a warrant, because he is not a U.S. person and he is overseas. Finally, theres always been an exception about the sharing of intercepts between NSA and law enforcement where a serious crime, such as espionage, is reasonably indicated.

Very confusing, yes.

So confusing in fact that Jane Harman may have been caught in a trap of her own making. See, Jane had been one of the most effective advocates in Congress for expanding NSA domestic wiretapping. That is, until it was used against her. Theres gotta be some kind of Genie who dispenses such rough payback.


But, there's a larger issue here than Harman and Gilon - something more to this that many people haven't talked about yet.


Here's the question that isn't being asked: Why is Harman and AIPAC, itself, such an advocate of expanded warrantless wiretapping? Along with Jane, AIPAC and its beneficiaries in Congress have been a constant force against accountability for warrantless wiretapping programs.

There is a reasonable explanation for Israeli support for expanded wiretapping inside the U.S.: Narus/Verint/NICE (surveillance) systems

The NSA has long relied on Israeli produced wiretapping systems for much of its domestic telephone/e-mail intercepts that are gathered through CALEA-mandated diverters put in place by the phone companies beginning in the 1990s. Much of this equipment is manufactured by NARUS, VERINT, and NICE, companies founded and still operated by retired Israeli signals intelligence officers. See, www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=vi...

The US has a number of information-sharing arrangements with foreign countries. The ECHELON program run jointly with the UK is most widely known. Under the USA-UK system, the US and British Commonwealth countries reads and shares each others intercepts, in order to evade laws limiting domestic wiretapping.

Israel also has an interest in maintaining its commercial and intelligence-gathering interests in the United States. The potential downsides of such an arrangement are obvious - it's appalling that this issue hasn't been openly addressed until now except by James Bamford and a few retired intelligence officers.

Maybe, the Harman-AIPAC-Gonzo scandal will finally open this unmentionable topic for public discussion.

***

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Lithos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
1. Riddle me this
If Harman was such a supporter for warrantless wiretapping, why did the Bush Administration have to use blackmail to support their warrantless wiretap program?

Remember, this started out as a wiretap which was then used to blackmail Harman to switch a vote in favor of wiretapping.

L-
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. She's been a consistent supporter of NSA wiretapping, except for the AIPAC matter.
Why she would make an exception to her general practice isn't so hard to riddle out, is it?
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Howardx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. actually youre wrong about the underlying facts
"But that's when, according to knowledgeable officials, Attorney General Gonzales intervened. According to two officials privy to the events, Gonzales said he "needed Jane" to help support the administrations warrantless wiretapping program, which was about to be exposed by the New York Times.

Harman, he told Goss, had helped persuade the newspaper to hold the wiretap story before, on the eve of the 2004 elections. And although it was too late to stop the Times from publishing now, she could be counted on again to help defend the program.

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/20/gonzales-harman-nsa /


there was no vote to be switched, they needed her to help pushback against the nyt story. where the assumption that she was being blackmailed comes from i dont know.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. Actually, I'm right - Harman in fact voted in favor of the USA-Patriot Act and
Edited on Tue Apr-21-09 09:37 AM by leveymg
subsequent amendments, including the 2005 Bill. On the Intel Committee she had been one of the most effective advocates for expansion of NSA domestic spying.
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Howardx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. i was talking to lithos
he/she seems to have the facts completely wrong.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Thanks
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. I don't think she was blackmailed....
As she was/is a strong supporter of AIPAC and many Bush policies re "national security", I don't think blackmail was necessary. It was more, as has been reported, the Bush administration needed a 'clean' Democrat supporting the warrantless wiretap program once the NYT exposed it. Had it become known Harmon was under investigation for a quid pro quo with an Israeli agent, her support for the program would have been badly tainted. It was for that reason Gonzales stopped any investigation before it had begun, imo.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. And, if the NYT had run Risen's story, the 2004 election would've gone the other way
So, she and the Times publisher and Gen'l Mgr really had a pivotal role in getting Bush-Cheney reelected.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. It certainly would have affected the election...
to what degree is, imo, unknown but it IS pivotal, that the expose was NOT published prior to it and the implications related to the decision for delaying the publication.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. It was a very close election
Likely, if that story had been allowed to break during the campaign, it would have changed the outcome.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Thanks to the NYT decision to postpone publication,...
we will never know for certain whether it would have resulted in the election of John Kerry, we can only speculate based on probabilities. The NYT, in withholding the publication of their expose, was actively engaged in political interference and that is despicable.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #9
20. I have to disagree with you here, leveymg, the fix was already in for the election.
Kerry won Ohio (and other states that went in Bush's column but Ohio has gotten the most scrutiny). When it looked like Kerry was going to contest a close race...

CLINTON ALLY JAMES CARVILLE'S ROLE IN THE QUICK KERRY CONCESSION:

Did Carville Tip Bush Off to Kerry Strategy (Woodward)


By M.J. Rosenberg | bio




On page 344, Woodward describes the doings at the White House in the early morning hours of Wednesday, the day after the '04 election.

Apparently, Kerry had decided not to concede. There were 250,000 outstanding ballots in Ohio.

So Kerry decides to fight. In fact, he considers going to Ohio to camp out with his voters until there is a recount. This is the last thing the White House needs, especially after Florida 2000.

-snip

"Carville told her he had some inside news. The Kerry campaign was going to challenge the provisional ballots in Ohio -- perhaps up to 250,000 of them. 'I don't agree with it, Carville said. I'm just telling you that's what they're talking about.'

-snip

http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2006/oct/07/did...


JUST A LITTLE RE-ADJUSTMENT TO MAKE EVERYTHING "RIGHT".
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #6
29. That's very sound analysis.
A bit strongetr than what others are posting.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #1
12.  Lithos, why the assumption, a priori, that she was being blackmailed and didn't just do
what she was predisposed to do?

That she was captured on the phone is just another episode of the same type of behavior.

Do you think this may lead to a discrediting of AIPAC?

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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #1
26. When did Harman deviate from Bush "national security" policy?
She is one of the biggest recipients of military contractor money and always stands for whatever the Pentagon and CIA want. After 9/11 she specialized in Homeland Terror hysterics. When did she vote against a Bush security measure? In 2007 she even freelanced sponsorship of the "thoughtcrimes" act (H.R. 1955) - will you tell me this was because of the blackmail?

Warrantless wiretapping is who Jane Harman IS. That it may now undo her is delicious. Long as it leads us to bigger targets like AIPAC, Gonzales and the Bush surveillance complex, it's good news all around!
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
2. Our relationship with Israel needs to undergo some very drastic changes.
Our security and stability should not be based upon this one nation. We must interact with the whole world and seek stability everywhere. Fomenting chaos and discord has brought the world nothing in terms of peace or prosperity since all such initiatives get sucked into that black hole constructed and maintained by religious zealots of all stripes.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Like, put a plug in this giant money hole!!
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Bushfire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #2
21. Well said
and great post by the original poster Leveymg.
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Democracyinkind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
7. Israeli spying in the US is the elephant in the room of the last years.

Remember 9/11 and how we walked in on the largest spying operation ever conducted in the US? I have been reading about this subject ever since then and I have found stuff that really boggles my mind.

No you gotta be really careful with this subject because there are so many anti semites spreading disinfo. But Israel has treated the US very heinously when it comes to Intel.

I believe we generally have great illusions about how secure the beltway is regarding these things. It is rarely mentioned that our civilian/military nuclear programs tend to leak like a 10 year old roof on a strip mall, especially when Israelis take a peek.

And then there is the relation between our two intel services, who are very hard to distinguish in the field. Iran-Contra anyone?
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
13. Thanks for posting
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
16. Off to the Greatest page! K&R!
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
18. And to some of us here, google censoring was observed back when the AIPAC spy scandal broke...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

and later Brad Friedman noted on his blog another censoring of Sibel Edmonds' story was going on in Google too...

http://www.bradblog.com/?p=5231

Note a link to a Harman story on this page too with AIPAC in the comments...
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blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
19. Well, that makes sense
Yesterday, some TPM writer was thishortofpositive that the "Israeli agent" on the phone was billionaire Haim Saban. That struck me as odd. This scenario with Naor Gilon sounds more probable.
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
22. I want to know why the Israelis thought they could get Pelosi to appoint Harman
Edited on Tue Apr-21-09 11:20 AM by HamdenRice
That's an extraordinary statement of influence within Congress. I realize ostensibly it was supposed to be based on fund raising, but it's a bit of a stretch.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. Is that question retorical?
Edited on Tue Apr-21-09 11:19 AM by seemslikeadream
:hi:




Analyst Charged With Passing Iran Info: Franklin Turned Self InTo FBI
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Fieth resigns from Pentagon today
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Former CIA official looks to leak the truth
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
New Israeli spy probe has a 30-year history, insiders say
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Israel's Mole Inside the Pentagon
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
FBI probes Jewish sway on Bush government
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Money from Iran Fuels Iraq Insurgency -Rumsfeld
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Israeli spy nest in the U.S. - Ashcroft says: Dont arrest them!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
FBI probes DOD office (spy probe widens)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
F.B.I said to reach official suspected of passing secrets ....
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Analyst Who Is Target of Probe Went to Israel
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Knight Ridder:FBI espionage probe goes beyond Israeli allegations
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Pentagon Analyst Was Cooperating When Israel Spy Case Became Public
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Iran-Contra II? Fresh scrutiny on rogue Pentagon operation -Josh Marshall
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
AIPAC's Overt and Covert Ops
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
UK Express: (Perle) Faces (FBI) Quiz Over Links to Israeli Spy
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Israel Says It Has No Need to Spy on U.S.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
F.B.I. Is Said to Brief Pentagon Bosses on Spy Case; Charges Are Possible
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
LAT: FBI Questions Israeli Lobbyists (AIPAC) in Spying Probe ((Gilon mentioned)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
FBI briefs Wolfowitz on Israeli spy claim
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
F.B.I. Interviews 2 Suspected of Passing Secrets to Israel
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
FBI seizes computer from AIPAC offices
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Pentagon Office in Spying Case Was Focus of Iran Debate
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Leak Probe More Than 2 Years Old (AIPAC)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
AIPAC hires lawyers
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Spy probe scans neo-cons' Israel ties (long article from Asia Times)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
FBI Informed White House of AIPAC Probe Two Years Ago
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Alleged Pentagon Leak to Iraqi Is Under Investigation
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Serving Two Flags The Bush Neo-Cons and Israel
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Israeli political advisor may have received U.S. secrets
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Wider FBI Probe Of Pentagon Leaks Includes Chalabi - WaPo
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
LAT: Israel Has Long Spied on US,Say Officials(but CIA, Mossad "intimate")
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Defense, Cheney Iran Specialists Questioned in (Israeli Spy) Probe
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Leak Inquiry Includes Iran Experts in Administration (WaPo)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
A Web Of Intrigue Inside the Israel espionage investigation
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Pro-Israel Lobby Has Strong VoiceAIPAC Is Embroiled in Investigation of Pe
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Israel's Mole Inside the Pentagon
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
FBI probes possible Pentagon leak to Iraqi exiles
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Reporters' Files Subpoenaed
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Secrets: Classified Info: Springing a Leak
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. I guess it is now
Edited on Tue Apr-21-09 11:21 AM by HamdenRice
:hi:
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sixmile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #23
32. Good job. I'm glad someone's keeping track.
Many scary bedtime stories in your post. Kicked.

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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
25. While I Think This Is An Excellent Thread
I don't know that I agree with your conclusion about Harman. I regard her as trading with the enemy, in this situation, and may even see her as worse because she not only worked against the the well being of her party, she did so against the best interests of her country. The lines have gotten crossed in the last several decades, where we're told that Israel's interests are ours and vice versa. It has been part of the smudging factor that always seems to play against our best interests. AIPAC had become too influential when it is believed, as it is, that to go against the organization places a member in danger of losing their seat. With the AIPAC case, I always felt that one of the subsidiary issues was, with all we've done and continue to do for Israel, that they would still spy on us in this manner. If she had done this for Russia she'd be n jail now.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. You say:
Edited on Tue Apr-21-09 01:54 PM by truedelphi
If she had done this for Russia she'd be in jail now.



Yep, if she had done it for Russia, she'd be in jail.

It's funny how selective "justice" is. If the people tortured over the last eight years had been Israelis, the torture prosecutions would already be underway.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. Also, Bear In Mind
Larry Franklin, the American involved in the case is already serving his sentence so why should the Isrealis being given a pass?

"The Lawrence Franklin espionage scandal (also known as the AIPAC espionage scandal) refers to allegations that information regarding United States policy towards Iran was passed to Israel through Lawrence Franklin via staffers of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee. Franklin, a former United States Department of Defense employee, pled guilty to several espionage-related charges and was sentenced in January 2006 to nearly 13 years of prison. Two former AIPAC employees have also been indicted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Weissman
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #33
38. Thanks for the excellent information. n/t
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #33
43. I wondered about that too. It's pretty devastating
Edited on Wed Apr-22-09 07:48 PM by sabrina 1
to hear that that trial will not go forward now.

I will say though, that I always felt that Rosen and Weiss had a good defense and that it might have worked had the trial gone forward. They claimed that what they did was not at all unusual and that it was sanctioned by the highest levels of our government. That the US and Israel always shared 'sensitive information'. I think that was a shock to many people but to those working inside the government (check the OP regarding Perle and Wolfowitz, who even after those violations, were still able to attain powerful positions in our government) it was 'normal'.

However, with the trial and the expected revelations and the anticipated reaction of the American people who do NOT in general know about this 'special relationship', all of that could have changed.

When AIPAC distanced themselves from Rosen and Weiss they were furious and their defense team, in order to prove their claims they called Condi, Hadley and Feith as witnesses to back up their claims that they were doing nothing wrong.

I thought that was a great move on the part of the defense. What would Condi et al say? 'Yes, of course we share sensitive info with foreign countries'! I think they also tried to call Cheney as a witness. They tried to get the subpoenas quashed, but failed. They had two choices, deny they approved of or maybe even ordered this 'sharing' of info or admit it, and risk being charged with treason themselves.

That was a very important trial. I am stunned that all charges have been dropped now. It most likely would have completely exposed Cheney's shadow government which he ran from inside his Office of Special Plans, something that needs to be investigated separately.

I remember also, that the FBI, which had been working on the case for two years before they finally raided AIPAC's offices, had to move faster because someone found out about the investigation.

This case should have been front-page news for that past four years, instead, even the calling of the SOS as a witness in a spy trial, barely received any mention.

Something is very wrong in this country, and the more we find out, the easier it is to understand why this government no longer listens to the American people. It is beyond time that the American people wake up and actually do something to get this country back, out of the hands of the traitors who have apparently been selling it to the highest bidders for a very long time.

Edited to add ~ where does this leave Larry Franklin now? If Rosen and Weiss did nothing wrong, doesn't that let him off the hook also, despite his confession?

As for the guy who fled the country, I also remember that the prosecutors wanted him returned, but Israel would not cooperate.

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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. Good Question Regarding Franklin
However the fact that he pleaded guilty mat be a problem for him and limit his options. And in fact he did pass sensitive info. As to the 'special relationship', it has gotten out of hand and it is that, that I refer to when I say the lines have been smudged to our detriment
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. True, re his pleading guilty.
But, he pled guilty to passing sensitive info to a foreign government through Rosen and Weiss. If they are not agents for a foreign government anymore, then I think he can ask for a new trial at least. I haven't read why the charges were dropped, the last I heard the trial was coming up in June so I don't know if there was some admission that their claims, that what they did was 'normal' was accepted. It's a shame, because it definitely seemed that they were guilty, or at least as they claimed, the Cheney/Feith/Condi team were ...

I agree with you as far as the lines being smudged. I don't understand all this spying being tolerated from a supposed ally.
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TorchTheWitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-23-09 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #43
53. Rosen and Weissman are set to go to trial in June
http://innovation.cq.com/liveonline/54/landing

Q Adam from Philadelphia:
What is the current state of that case against Rosen and Weissman? What effect do you think this revelation will have on that case moving forward?

A Jeff Stein:
A trial is scheduled for June.



According to this article, the Justice Dept. is considering dropping the case. However, with what just came out about Harman, it will look REALLY REALLY bad if Holder agrees to drop it...

WASHINGTON The Justice Department is considering dropping its case against two former pro-Israel lobbyists accused of illegally disclosing national defense secrets, government officials said Tuesday.

...

Two government officials said Tuesday the Justice Department has been weighing whether to go forward with the much-delayed case. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to disclose details of internal discussions. Some involved in the case are urging officials to let it continue to trial, the officials said.


It also looks like it may be postponed yet again because of a judge having a scheduling conflict...

Their trial now is scheduled for early June in a Virginia federal court but is likely to be delayed further because a judge has a scheduling conflict.



And it's Weissman (not "Weiss")



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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-23-09 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #53
56. Okay, someone here said the charges had been dropped.
I stopped following that trial a while ago after so many cancellations and demands to make the charges go away. It looked like it would never get to trial especially after they called Bush officials as witnesses. So, it didn't seem all that surprising that charges might have been dropped considering the pressure there has been to do so all along.

I had more time to check today and am surprised, if what the anonymous sources are saying is true, that the current DOJ would even consider dropping the charges. Bush would not be a surprise, but this DOJ ought not to be even thinking about dropping this case.

Nine cancellations already so I won't hold my breath on it happening in June, but if it does, I hope the media doesn't continue to ignore it.

Anyhow, it's good to know it was not true, at least so far. Thanks for correcting the mis-info.

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genna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-23-09 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #43
58. If this is as big a problem as this underlying AIPAC case makes it seem
Obama needs to clean house.


If there is going to be a special relationship, they need to codify the legal status of it so officials can't be prosecuted for espionage or treason. If there is NO special relationship and this spying by American officials is illegal, people need to be put out of their government jobs.

Pollack comes to mind.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-23-09 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #58
60. Yes, that would make sense and I hope it gets done
soon.
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TorchTheWitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-23-09 06:08 AM
Response to Reply #33
49. They haven't - they go to trial in June
It was the indicted AIPAC officials, Rosen and Weissman, that Harman was agreeing to try to get reduced charges for in exchange for help being appointed by Pelosi.

http://innovation.cq.com/liveonline/54/landing

Q Adam from Philadelphia:
What is the current state of that case against Rosen and Weissman? What effect do you think this revelation will have on that case moving forward?

A Jeff Stein:
A trial is scheduled for June.



As for the suspected Israeli agent, we don't even know who he is, so how can we imagine he's being given any pass? The people that Jeff Stein used as his sources have been very closed-mouth about the suspected agent because it's a very sensitive ongoing investigation.

Q Mary from Bethesda:
Why won't your sources give any more details about the alleged Israeli agent?

A Jeff Stein:
National security wiretaps are about the most sensitive item the government has.



http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cfm?docID=hsnews-0000...

The identity of the "suspected Israeli agent" could not be determined with certainty, and the former national security officials would not discuss other aspects of the highly classified NSA eavesdropping operation against Israeli targets.



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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-23-09 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #49
59. Thanks, I'm glad it's going forward if only
because of the information it has the potential to reveal, with Condi et al finally under oath.
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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
27. Kick back to the front page n/t
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laststeamtrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
28. K & R - n/t.
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harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
31. Everyone knows Israel spys on the U.S. It is just the extent of it
that got the U.S. to push back a bit.
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laststeamtrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
34. Kick -- n/t.
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Truth2Tell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
35. Download and watch this video now.
AVI: http://www.wcontent.com/spy.avi

This mind-blowing four part series on Israeli spying in the US by Carl Cameron aired on FOX News three months after 9-11. It was almost immediately removed from the FOX Website and the network has since refused to comment on its existence, although they have never retracted the claims.
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balantz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. I posted part of the video here at D.U.:
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
36. israel spys on the united states?
FREE POLLARD!!!
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
39. Hey Mark...
Remember back in like 2004 or 2005 when the FBI raided the Jackson library? I wonder if this is related to that? It happened about he time that the Franklin stuff was happening.

-Hoot
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. Jackson Library????
Guess I don't. What brings it to mind?
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. Well it's not the Jackson Library...
It's Ol Scoop's stuff in the U of Washington library that got raided.

Sorry for my CRS!

-Hoot
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-23-09 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #44
51. Just a guess, but Jackson would have known "Mega"
Edited on Thu Apr-23-09 09:13 AM by leveymg
Maybe, Mega's identity. Look at the time period. In 1965, Israel was deep into its nuclear program. The Israelis completed their first couple of deliverable devices just before their preemptive attack across the Sinai in 1967. The fissile material for those first devices was plutonium. The major source of plutonium production in the United States is Hanford, Washington.

Israel makes plutonium for atomic bombs at the Dimona nuclear complex in the Negev Desert. The French-supplied reactor there has produced plutonium with heavy water from Norway (brokered by the British) free from international controls since 1962. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/4789832... The Israeli nuclear program goes back to the very founding. While Israel had reactors in place long enough to produce much of its own materials, the technology of plutonium bombs is complex and requires very specialized knowledge and equipment, and vast amounts of fuel stocks and chemicals. The program also required a substantial amount of proven, weapons-grade material for experimental and development purposes. Those components and knowledge were sourced from several countries, including the US, UK, and France.

Mega, obviously, would have been at the center of organizing transfers from the US. Contact with the Senator of Washington State and his staff would have had obvious advantages.
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
40. Kick
:thumbsup:
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. Thank you
What do you think of this?
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
45. isn't EVERY country spying inside the U.S? as best they can?!
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-23-09 03:40 AM
Response to Original message
48. Wiretapping a congressman, bad. Wiretapping a pro-Israel congressman, good.
Got it.
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-23-09 06:11 AM
Response to Reply #48
50. No, wiretappinga congressmen bad,
wiretapping a MOSSAD operative, good.
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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-23-09 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #50
52. You got it, Pontiac. n/t
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-23-09 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #50
54. Any evidence for that? Or is that just the default assumption - that a pro-Israel congressman is
MOSSAD?
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-23-09 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #54
55. Who says the pro-Israel congressman is MOSSAD?
There are two participants in conversations.

I don't consider Israel a part of the United States nor do I consider Israel's interests and our interests to be one and the same. Frankly, I believe that our persistence in pretending like we are identical to the detriment of both of us and the world.

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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-23-09 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #55
57. I think you overstate the case.
The US leans on Israel whenever it wants (Osirik bombing, various "peace" processes).
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