Is the Susan Boyle performance a hoax?

[Cruzan]

The more I think about it the more I begin to wonder, though I have no evidence.

My first impression of her before she started singing was with her hair and clothes how much she reminded me of those Monty Python housewife characters, the so-called Pepper Pot women:



The resemblance seemed to me so striking that it almost had to be intentional. Why would a professional TV production with all of their hair, makeup and wardrobe staff let her go on like that unless on purpose?

My second impression when she started singing was, beauty aside, just how professional she sounded, not just in the quality and resonance of her voice, but in her breathing, her pacing, and the almost well-practiced emotion she gave the song.

Was this all some kind of prank to supercharge the show's ratings? Is "Susan Boyle" actually a professional musical theater (or some other kind) of singer that was heavily made up and presented as an undiscovered unknown?

I don't know. But everything said about her story and her performance so far has to me almost a too perfect fairytale-like quality, to the point where it begins to seem contrived.

[Stellabella]

1. She has taken voice lessons.

Didn't you see the interview on the morning shows today? Or hear the people from her hometown?

[smoogatz]

8. Yep--my wife (also a trained singer) noticed it

the first time she saw the video--it's obvious Ms. Boyle has had some training. That doesn't make her a pro, or a ringer--the music biz is often about appearances first and voices second (see Britney Spears, et al), so it's not that surprising that someone like Ms. Boyle could fly under the radar for years and years. It's also true that she has a fine voice, but not an amazing voice--you could find better in almost any African American church choir in the U.S. What's striking is the juxtaposition between her appearance and her voice--and that's what people responded to, I think.

[intheflow]

104. "you could find better in almost any African American church choir."

Excuse me, but this sounds like racism to me.

To clarify: I'm not saying you are a prejudiced person, or that you have any conscious biases against (or for) people of color. I'm making a distinction between being prejudiced and engaging in the more subtle and nuanced white privilege of unconscious racism.

I believe in reality you're just as likely to find extraordinary singing voices in any random church choir in the US, whether those voice boxes are covered in white, yellow, red, black, or brown skin. To say someone is more likely to find beautiful voices coming from black bodies sounds not that far from the stereotype of "Those darkies sure can sing!" If your experience with white churches is poor choir quality, the blame lies with the choir director, not the skin color.

[Teaser]

163. oh sweet christ

I know I don't usually shit on people's topics here, but this one is the lamest topic evar.

[BlooInBloo]

159. Because them blacks - dey sho nuff can sing dem some, can'ts they miss elly?

[smoogatz]

164. There's a long tradition of African American church singning

that you evidently don't know anything about, that puts a lot of emphasis on the solo voice. Most of the great black female blues and soul singers come out of this tradition. But okay, yeah, I'm racist for suggesting that a lot of black women have great voices. What ev.

[showbusiness]

151. Susan Boyle is NO hoax, but the show is – to a certain extent.

I love the lady, her authentic personality, and her beautiful voice. Watched her a zillion times since Monday when a friend sent it to me from Europe. She brought tears to my eyes on every occasion.

It wasn't until I saw all the other auditions that I realized how some, the horrible ones like Andy the crazy dancer, the witch, the Dance King, etc...are brought on board purely for their lack of talent. For the sensation of nasty buzzers going off and red X's flashing all over the screen. Mind numbing humiliation. A weird experience. The acts are clearly prescreened and prepared.
Then I watched Ms Boyle's segment again, with a more critical eye.
For one, they edited the original soundtrack. The intro was cut, and so was the strophe about “He slept a summer by my side...”. Fair enough, but that's not done overnight. The song also popped up, in another version, during the ratings. Nice touch.
Shots were readily available to be edited for the “before and after” effect. The curly hairdo is different from earlier pictures of her that are now surfacing. There's a thin line between preparing and staging: it now strikes me as unnatural for her to walk away before hearing the score.

My conclusion is that the producers knew early on (maybe weeks, even months ago?) that they had a hit on their hands (like Paul Potts), and made every effort to present her as the most unlikely person ever to do well, to enhance the surprise effect, a main ingredient of the narrative.

That does NOT diminish Susan's personality or performance in any way. It certainly helped to reach 13 million YouTube hits in 5 days. And that's how we (far away from Britain) discovered her. For which I'm extremely grateful.

But it implies that there was a fair amount of faking on the part of the jury and the production company. Simon Cowell (also the producer of the show) did not lie when he said: “I knew from the minute you walked on to that stage....” He probably knew it well before.

It is and remains show - business as usual.
I wish Susan, from the bottom of my heart, all the very best, because she deserves it. But it's a jungle out there.

[biopowertoday]

2. You have bought into the Judging the Book by its cover--and older

shall we say, non star looking women that was ignored because of her looks and probably age.


What a woman!! Go Susan.

[Enrique]

asking a question means he's buying into something?

I disagree. I think the people that don't ask questions are the ones that are buying into something, not that that's necessarily a bad thing.

[biopowertoday]

18. did I say

anything about asking a question? I was pointing out the probably why.

[devilgrrl]

3. How about the chinese girl that was replaced by lip-synching pretty girl at the Olympics?

I keep thinking about that in relation to this story.

[Karenina]

24. Excellent recollection!

[derby378]

4. Somehow, I don't think so

Simon Cowell's been in the business for a long time, from flavor-of-the-month boy bands to the various Idol incarnations. I think he could tell if Susan was faking.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

93. And, it'd look bad for HIM, if it was a hoax

He wouldn't make that risk.

[JSK]

132. Simon looked genuinely shocked

when she started to sing.

[azmouse]

5. She does have a beautiful voice but

I have to admit to wondering the same thing.
She seems to have come from nowhere and is now everywhere.

In any case, I wish her success.

[MADem]

20. ??? EVERYONE who competes in BGT comes "from nowhere."

Even this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1k08yxu57NA

[azmouse]

29. You're right about that

but I don't know... I can't help but feel that there isn't something completely kosher about what was presented.
I'm just being cynical I guess.

Like I said, whatever the situation, I wish her success.

[timtom]

97. And what about that 12-year-old kid, Andrew Johnston?

I mean, THAT was the voice of a woman!!!

http://www.tangler.com/forum/best-of-youtube-12/topic/4...

And don't forget the remarkable Bobby Breen...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGMZ1dN7eT8

Who is covering up?
What did they know?
And, when did they know it? (at least as early as 1938, apparently)

[azmouse]

105. ???

The first link didn't won't load.

And I don't get your point, if you had one.

[timtom]

114. Just my surreal "sense of humor"

Sorry about the link. It works for me. If it loads anything, you have to scroll up to get the video.

I'm like that in public, too. Some are amused from time to time...

[dionysus]

6. sorry, dumbest OP of the day...

[Enrique]

13. much smarter to buy things without questioning them.

eating hype with a spoon and laughing at skeptics.

[biopowertoday]

25. move it over to the conspiracy theories forum.

[Enrique]

31. yeah with all the other wackos who doubt reality shows

[Sultana]

33. ...

I am in England & I've never heard of Susan Boyle till today on DU.

[Enrique]

39. you must be one of those weird people that has a life

I've heard stories there were people like you out there.

[Sultana]

154. I came back from Dublin yesterday (8-day holiday) & I don't watch TV here

[MADem]

84. Not a BGT fan? Or do you lack a television license? nt

[WI_DEM]

42. All you have to do is google her and you can find her story, now is everybody in her hometown lying

or what?

[Enrique]

49. so you googled her and I googled her

and the OP asked here on DU. Good for all of us.

[WI_DEM]

51. yes, good for people to do research and find out what the story is before

suggesting that it's all a hoak.

[Enrique]

54. why?

is the OP obnoxious in any way about asking the obvious question that you yourself asked.

Certainly many of the responses are totally obnoxious and hostile.

What is so very offensive about asking publicly what you and I asked privately? Is the belief in Susan Boyle a sacred one that can't be questioned?

[WI_DEM]

58. I must say you are an excellent advocate for the OP

who hasn't responded at all.

[Hugabear]

139. Would ANYBODY be questioning her performance if she were a hot 20-yr old blond?

Hardly. She's created such a sensation because she is NOT your typical music industry singer - in fact, she's pretty much about as opposite as you can get.

I rather find all these conspiracy theories to be rather insulting.

[AngryAmish]

98. But WHY are they lying?

What do they have to hide?

[Hugabear]

137. If you're going to question something, at least have SOMETHING to back yourself up

Otherwise, you look just like any other internet hater.

[Enrique]

146. I love her and I love American Idol for finding her

I think it's a great thing. Her great singing talent combined with American Idol's talent for contrivance has done some good imo, for her and for the people that like her music.

And it's good some people aren't buying everything they're being sold without checking it out.

Where's the hatred other than in the overreaction to people questioning a reality show?

[Turborama]

147. It's not American Idol, it's Britain's Got Talent

Just sayin'.

[olegramps]

72. Yes, it wins hands down.

I have attended several clubs that had karaoke. My son has a band and I have attended many performances in which he has employed several vocalists. Some of the singers of course stunk, but a few were really talented. To make it in showbiz you need a couple of things. Good looks is paramount to ability. Then throw in a good measure of luck and you just might, just might, get an audition with a major scout. Its is one tough business with ferocious competition.

[TNOE]

83. Agreed.

[Lorien]

131. Indeed. Some people search for conspiracy in all things

which kind of distracts from the ones that are actually out there!

[notadmblnd]

7. The woman said she had been singing since she was 12

She wasn't asked if she didn't have voice or music lessons during her 47 years. Obviously she is an unknown. It's unfortunate that human nature causes us to dismiss those who may not be attractive to most people, as frauds.

Whatever the case, I enjoyed the performance and the faces on the people who dismissed her outright, when she blew them away with her voice.

[NashVegas]

55. In Some Peoples' Worlds

"Unfuckable" women don't even deserve the training that might help them grow as artists, don't you know. It'll only break their hearts, to have such great talent and not be accepted by society. Better no one should ever have to know they exist

[Catherine Vincent]

9. Who is Suan Boyle? nt

[notadmblnd]

15. here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lp0IWv8QZY

[Enrique]

10. she's real but the show's fake

the totally fake "American Idol" improved this woman's life probably, and brought enjoyment to people that like that kind of music (I personally don't care for it and Susan Boyle sounds to me pretty much like any of those singers lol).

[LostinVA]

64. She wasn't on "American Idol," but "AI" isn't fake anyway

[undeterred]

11. Your post is insulting,

There may be a relationship between beauty and success, but there is absolutely none between beauty and talent.

[hlthe2b]

19. re:

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

12. I guess her village is in on the hoax too. The people in the pub where she sang

karaoke are in on it.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4949467n

[Historic NY]

22. karaoke..thats voice lessons.

Imagine trying to sing in a smokey, stale beer & whiskey joint.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

34. ...

[Canuckistanian]

36. Singing in smoky bars? Didn't hurt Ella Fitzgerald

Or almost any other major singer you can name. They ALL started off singing in bars and nightclubs.

People who walk directly from talent shows to recording studios are virtually non-existant. That's what makes this story incredible.

[Toucano]

123. +1

[RaleighNCDUer]

134. Karaoke is NOT voice lessons - all it is is practice.

Proper voice lessons require a very good voice coach, discipline, and a LOT of practice. My dad was a HS music teacher, many eons ago, and he had a wonderful singer - sounded like Anna Marie Alberghetti - and he coached he as well as he was able but insisted that when she got the chance she should get a REAL voice coach. He was really afraid of working with her himself, for fear of ruining a promising singer with poor technique.

[MADem]

14. You do realize those were the early auditions, or maybe not?

She looks like the ladies who used to run the tea shop near my house.

Did you ever see Paul Potts' performance on the same programme?

Here, watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1k08yxu57NA

[rucky]

16. I think you're treading into the "unhealthy skepticism" category. n/t

[hlthe2b]

17. My understanding is they don't "fix up" the contestents at audition

stage.... The opera singing, cell-phone salesman who was a similar phenom a few years back, was equally frumpy at this stage in the show.

I know it is hard, but I think the cynicism may be misplaced here.

[jmg257]

21. Don't think so. And don't care...one of the best performances I ever saw/heard.

Including the typical "Idol" pre-judging and surprised reactions.

Heart-filling stuff.

[SoCalNative]

23. Adam Lambert has done Broadway shows

Should he be kicked off American Idol? Is he perpetrating a fraud?

[mudesi]

26. Not A Hoax, But Definitely Planned

The producers saw a great chance for good TV and took it. Unless she was lip synching, it can't be called a "hoax", but it's not like they didn't know she had a good voice, otherwise they wouldn't have put her on the show.

[WolverineDG]

45. I think they were looking for the next "Paul" & they found Susan

I can't believe someone would say they think this is a fake even though they have no proof. If it was a fake, why didn't they air it on April 1?

dg

[RaleighNCDUer]

57. Who is "they"? How does it work with these shows?

Do the judges hear them in audition before this point, or are they screened by producers first so the reaction of the panel is genuine upon first hearing the contestant? There must be some kind of pre-screening, and I can't imagine that Simon Cowell will waste his time listening to hundreds of applicants to come down to the dozen or whatever that open the show. The kid backstage had obviously heard her before, cuz he was real jazzed at the reception she was going to get - he knew she was going to blow them away.

[dustbunnie]

71. Yes, they send out the scouts first for preliminary auditions.

If they didn't, you could very well end up with a show that offers not a single, decent talent. They make it a point to mix up some good, some bad, and a few really amazing contestants.

And yes, of course, there were the two dudes who were salivating at the reception she would get. Not everyone gets followed around with a camera to produce the kind of youtube clip everyone's been watching.

[zazen]

70. yes--I do the judges already knew she had a pretty good voice

maybe not as great as it was, but she had already made the cut to get on stage, so they had to know something. But I suspect she really is who she says she is.

The video on YouTube has been edited to be a "story" about this, however. It's not the original live scene, I don't think, not with their playing the Les Mis song in the b/g while she waves, cuts to the guys in the back, cuts to the audience members making ugly faces in the beginning, and so forth

[northernlights]

106. she wasn't lip synching

She demonstrated good, solid vocal technique, with a good instrument, and gave an honest, poignant and deeply-moving rendition.

[Canuckistanian]

27. Hoo boy.

Everything is a conspiracy, isn't it?

There's nothing being done that isn't controlled by a few powerful people.

Get out more.

[WolverineDG]

48. Sign seen at next major protest

"Susan Boyle was an inside job!"



dg

[Bicoastal]

28. First things first--these TV talent shows do screenings beforehand...

...so the Producers can select the acts for the big audience that are either very good, horrendously bad, or just bizarre. (If every single auditioner actually got to perform for the top judges, the whole production would take weeks to get past the preliminary stage.) And when they DO have the performers for the big audience, only a few of THEM actually make it on TV.)

So no, after she made it past unrecorded auditions behind the scenes, the Producers of this show fully capitalized on her looks and life story before the performance, and absolutely edited it to highlight the drama (shots aplenty of the audience's pre-performance derisive laughter, the judges rolling their eyes, etc.) They knew what was COMING...

...but listen, there are people with great voices all over the planet--people who put in the years and training, but never have the range or luck or experience or (in this case) physical beauty. This woman undoubtedly did community theater in her own area, but if she was a West End performer, we'd all have heard about it by now.

[TayTay]

40. Then the story is not just about her

but about those watching her. Without the reaction, there is no story.

so it's about Susan Boyle, the undiscovered singer, and about the millions who saw something of themselves in her.

That is still one hell of a story. I have seen efforts to script such a thing before. (Isn't there a movie coming out next week about a gifted violinist who was homeless who reclaims a place on the stage?) However, rarely does such a thing become a world-wide sensation. The producers of the TV show didn't forward all the links, real people did.

[NashVegas]

62. Absolutely It's About Peoples' Reaction To Her

It's the scoffing audience and celebrity judges who were ready to roast her before they heard her even sing a note, their quick re-appraisal, and roaring approval that makes the story as much as Susan Boyle and her story.

There are millions of Susan Boyles all over the world, people capable of unleashing a fantastic gift, who never get the chance because of pre-judgment. That's the story, too.

[Hannah Bell]

141. but that storyline was shaped & "produced" as well

[FKA MNChimpH8R]

99. Yup

The two guys backstage (preliminary audition producers perhaps? I know nothing about this show or its US counterpart) KNEW that she was going to kill the crowd stone dead and probably the judges as well. She was screened, you can bet, but I think the reaction to her live performance was legit. The unvarnished "Holy Shit!" expression of surprise and shock on Simon Cowell's face just a few seconds after she started to sing was a giveaway that he hadn't been tipped. If he could act that well, he'd be a frigging actor.

[vinylsolution]

30. Probably not a hoax....

... but definitely a distraction.

While the rich continue to loot our country, we're told to look the other way.

[NYCGirl]

37. Heaven forbid people react to something that makes them smile for a minute.

It's a wonderful filmclip, and I hope she finds great success.

[Bunny]

38. Oh for fuck sake. Like we can't possibly think about two things at the same time.

GMAFB.

[TayTay]

41. Yes, because if we didn't have this story

we would solve the world economic crisis, achieve world peace and make everyone above average.

Honestly, how can someone who says they want to clue "the people" in on what they need to know then turn around and disparage the people for liking a good story?

[jmg257]

53. And a GREAT distraction it was! Don't look or listen if you don't want, no biggie.

Was well worth it for me.

[ohheckyeah]

69. I'm sorry.

I'll try to remember to think about the rich looting our country every waking minute of the day.

I guess it will send you around the bend to know I watched American Idol both Tuesday and Wednesday nights.

[Uncle Joe]

76. I believe you underestimate the power we have here at D.U. I also believe this ability

to multitask extends to other parts of the Internet and the posters at those assorted web sites as well.

The first thread on which I posted relates to Susan Boyle, but check out the other three as well, they're on different subjects, and I posted on all of them, including the rich looting our country part!


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Of course this is only a small sampling of the various threads of which I've posted these past couple of days. I also posted on a couple of threads regarding the issue of Net Neutrality.

In short, I believe it's a big world out there and while we must stay vigilant regarding the serious, tragic, and critical issues of the day, we must also stop every now and then to smell the roses in order to recharge our emotional batteries.

[Rebubula]

116. wow...

...do you have a life or do you just sit around and cry for all the injustices in the world?

Life is short and you should try to have fun. It sucks that pain is worldwide and unstoppable - but that does not mean that it has to infect your body to the point that you cannot enjoy one woman's (judging by her tale, she has had a rather hard life) joy and her beautiful voice?

Sad...

[Codeine]

117. I suppose that was inevitable.

I'm sure you do nothing but focus on socio-economic policy all day long. Never read a good book, or enjoy a film, or sing along to your favorite song on the radio; just a laser-like focus on Injustice and Unfairness.

Do sod off now. Kthnxbai.

[HughMoran]

161. "we're told to look the other way."

Who told us to look the other way? Psychotic tin foil hat language like that just makes you seem batshit crazy.

[Old and In the Way]

32. I suspect that they knew they had a winner in Ms. Boyle.

Obviously, she had pre-auditioned and the production crew knew that her image would be in total contradiction to her voice. Would she have become the overnight sensation had they glammed her up? Maybe, but I think they figured that this would be a lot more interesting and drive ratings if they kept her just the way she was. Whatever, she's obviously become quite the Youtube sensation...

[Arugula Latte]

35. She was a caregiver to her elderly mother -- not much time to pursue a singing career, IMO.

[Barack_America]

59. But plenty of time to sing...

...listen to music and learn how to interpret it.

She has stated that she had voice training, but my suspicion is that most of this is just a natural gift. In addition to the beautiful voice she clearly has, she likely has a very keen ear for music. Most striking to me, however, is her ability to add "soul" to classical music. Her voice is technically good, sure, but her interpretation of the song was remarkable. This is a woman who has known disappointment and heartache and triumph, and was able to inject that into the song in a way that still has my mind spinning. It was like listening to Gladys Knight sing theater. Amazing.

[Arugula Latte]

63. Right ... I'm actually saying that her circumstances would help explain

how she came out of nowhere. She's just a natural talent who didn't have the resources to become famous until now. I don't see a hoax at all.

[Barack_America]

85. Definitely.

I was agreeing with you, albeit in an awkward way.

[LisaM]

66. I agree with you here. I thought that she had temperament that a lot of the contestants lack

Maybe her life story has contributed to her ability to deliver the song. I don't watch American Idol for a variety of reasons, but mostly because the contestants, even if their voices are good, don't move me in any way. Carrie Underwood is the prime example of this. She doesn't interpret her songs (IMO) at all; she's technically proficient, and that's all. I watched the Susan Boyle video, and I thought she had that little extra something that makes one singer different from another. She was feeling her song, not just singing it.

[Dappleganger]

133. Good observation. nt

[northernlights]

109. totally backwards

Her natural voice is very nice, but many, many people have equally nice or better basic instruments.

She demonstrated about 3rd-4th year level voice training and it was plainly visible to others who have had voice training to that level and beyond.

She knew exactly how, technically, to put her voice into the "mask" to create resonance and how to maximize the use of the mask. She also demonstrated small, counter-intuitive details such as lifting her chin slightly on the *low* notes (when untrained singers want to tip their chins down) and dropping her chin slightly on the *high* notes (when untrained singers try to reach up to the note), to allow her vocal folds to move as freely as possible in the appropriate direction.

The fact that her singing held up so well under performance stress is due to a good grounding in vocal technique. Correct technique practiced over so many years that she could focus totally on the performance and allow the technique to take care of itself. When some tension did start to creep into her throat and almost cause a glottal-stop (about 3/4s of the way through where she starts to squeak on a high note), she could interrupt the glottal-stop and re-open fully, thereby preventing a train wreck.

[Barack_America]

156. I understand what you're saying, but I think that we're talking about different things.

As far as technique goes, I'm sure that everything you've said is correct. But I was talking more about what allowed her to interpret the song as she did.

[Annces]

43. I heard of her last night - she is really the buzz

It seems she could probably have gotten somewhere if she had gone to auditions and had an agent. Many opera singers are not that good looking. But for sure to make it as a pop singer, you have to have looks. That is about image.

The best acting is in theatre. But the money is in Hollywood.

[RandomKoolzip]

44. Wow. And i thought I'd never see a conspiracy theory dumber than

"The US caused the tsunami" or chemtrails or HAARP on DU. Guess I was wrong. Never underestimate the potential of DUers to unpleasantly surprise you with just how stupidly paranoid they can be.

[azmouse]

46. MSNBC just did a story about Susan Boyle

Others have admitted to doubts about her performance being genuine but the female judge of the show said it absolutely was genuine.

It's ok to have questions. Others may have the answers.

[ejpoeta]

108. it's normal to question. these shows DO do things, so cynicism isn't such a bad thing

considering. but i do believe that the person who said the pre-screeners probably knew she would blow everyone away. but even they couldn't have known the sensation this woman would become. they could hope, but you can't catch lightening in a bottle. it comes on it's own.

My husband is really taken by this whole story. he keeps watching that video and talking about it. it does kind of get annoying after awhile, but I was glad she showed them all. one of the things i don't like about shows like American Idol and o ther shows like it is that they like to make fun of people. they fully meant to do that from the looks on their faces before she sang. and the judges couldn't have known ahead of time judging from their reactions. they were completely floored.

[RaleighNCDUer]

47. Anybody who has spent a considerable part of their life in amateur

theater and community/church choirs knows there are thousands of people out there with professional quality voices, many with professional training, who just didn't to in that direction.

What caught me was the disparity between her initial approach the end result - I'm reminded of a story about Barbara Streisand auditioning when she was about 18, coming on stage like a bit of a ditz, chewing gum, does her little "I'm uh, I'm Barbara, and I, uh, I'm gonna sing, uh (whatever the song was). She starts - then stops, saying 'excuse me', pulls the gum out of her mouth, looks around, then shrugs and sticks it to the underside of the stool she's sitting on. She starts again, with that terrific voice, and knocks the producer dead.

After the audition he looked under the stool - there was no gum. The whole gum and ditz thing was just a schtick to lower expectations and make the subsequent song that much more powerful.

First thing I thought of, seeing this.

[Blue Diadem]

50. The female judge was just asked if Ms. Boyle was a plant.

I believe she was genuinely shocked by the question. She had already discussed Ms Boyle's looks as being unkempt or worse and not expecting the voice of an angel. She responded to the question by saying their rules are much stricter in her country and that if something like that took place the show would be taken off air.

edited to add: this was an interview just done on MSNBC

[Barack_America]

52. Well, Susan Boyle sang it again live on the Early Show this morning...

...via satellite, which I guess gives the conspiracy theorists more fodder.

I'm not directing this at you, but I still find it interesting that people simply cannot seem to believe that a woman who looks like that could have a voice like that.

Makes no sense to me, but we keep seeing the doubt over and over again.

[RandomKoolzip]

65. "I still find it interesting that people simply cannot seem to believe...

that a WOMAN who looks like that could have a voice like that."


Which just goes to show how sexist our culture is; i mean, anyone shocked that a person as unkempt and non-standardly "attractive" as Ms. Boyle could sing as well as she did obviously never saw Van Morrison perform at any time in the 1980's (y'know, before the hat, trenchcoat and sunglasses made him look a little less like some sort of Tolkein-esque dwarf-orc-hedgehog hybrid)

http://pro.corbis.com/images/BE071915.jpg?size=67&uid=%...

[Blue Diadem]

74. I'm shocked that they think she's a plant or hoax.

I've heard many an average looking person's voice through the years and there are some with wonderful voices. Susan Boyle's is beautiful.

I wonder if the hoax claimers even think about what enhancements are done to our stars. Very few are "beautiful" au natural, especially as they age. If we remove hair color/styling, makeup, hair removal, and all the cosmetic surgeries IMO, most would look pretty average.

[malaise]

95. I don't find it interesting at all

People who have been socialized with prepackaged BS can rarely spot the genuine article. There's cynicism and there's cynicism but I don't get this one.

Go Susan!!

sp.

[arcadian]

56. Who cares? The economy is in the shitter and we are bogged down in two wars.

Who gives a fuck about this person?

[Barack_America]

61. Music either does it for you or it doesn't.

And if music does it for you, then this woman's performance likely did it for you.

BTW, people said the same for Obama and his "bullshit message of HOPE".

[jmg257]

67. ALOT of people. It was a GREAT performance. Well worth a listen when you get the time.

[Dappleganger]

78. Because ART is important!

If we cannot aspire to something higher even during difficult times, we have let the world beat the humanity out of us.

Watch 'The Pianist.'

[azmouse]

82. I like pie.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

88. Do you do weddings and bar mitzvahs, too?

[KatyMan]

89. So what sort of high brow, enlightened

entertainment do you indulge in? Or is it Naomi Klein and documentaries all day long? Lighten up.

[Codeine]

118. For the same reason you waste your time on the internet.

We're capable of handling multiple thoughts at once.

[Lorien]

138. You answered your own question

when everything is in the shitter-that's when people MOST need a "feel good" story to give them a little hope for our species. There's very little of that available to us these days. And part of what touches people about Boyle is that she is like so many people out there; living a life that no one gave a fuck about. And now some do.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

60. More to the point- if she weren't ugly, would anybody care?

There's a rather pathetic undercurrent to this whole hoopla- everybody's so "shocked" because she's ugly and can sing.

She's like some kind of circus freak, she's not the real issue so much as the crowd of people looking at her.

[jmg257]

68. Wouldn't matter. She CAN sing. If some hottie could sing like her, she would probably be even more

popular.


As it was, an unknown older nice lady with a good cheery attitude sings a touching hard-to-sing song and just REALLY wows EVERYONE. It's a nice story.

[RaleighNCDUer]

129. If some hottie could sing like her, she'd have been famous long ago.

She'd have moved from Scotland to London's West End two decades ago.

I'm glad she finally got her shot.

[Blue Diadem]

77. I think you're right.

I'm not understanding the whole looks emphasis. The woman has a beautiful voice.

[sinkingfeeling]

92. But she's not ugly in any way, shape, or form.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

103. Sure she's ugly. Butt ugly. And fat. That's the whole selling point.

She's like a duo. Ugly and The Voice.

[Spazito]

107. I didn't find her "ugly" at all, what I did find was someone without the usual...

artifice that accompanies these things. It was a refreshing change, imo.

[sinkingfeeling]

111. Wow. Could you be any more misogynistic?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

113. Yes.

I could bring up her gender in some form or other and remark negatively towards that.

[dustbunnie]

112. She's not ugly at all. Lol. She's a real life "Miss Congeniality."

It was the frumpy forties hausfrau smock and hairdo that gave people the impression she's unattractive. They're going to dye and style her hair, pluck her unruly brows and put her in today's fashions, and she'll look completely transformed. She has sparkly, lovely eyes, a nice nose, long, beautiful legs, and it's clear she can "move."

[Codeine]

119. No, it was the ugly that made her ugly.

And I say that as a certified Ugly Person.

Fuck, it's so ridiculous around here when you can't even acknowledge the simple fact that some people are just plain fugly. We have to pretend that everyone is beautiful and sparkling or we lose our Progressive Cred or something.

[dustbunnie]

125. But she isn't. If I had thought she was fugly, I would've just shut up.

As I was watching the clip, I wanted to take the tweezers to her myself, and could totally envision what she'd look like with a little prompting. She's not twenty, so you can't compare her to some hot, new pop star, but for a 47-year-old woman, she looks pretty good as is (good skin, good muscle tone in her legs, etc) and with some external help, she'll look just fine. She does have nice eyes... they conveyed a lot of emotion, and that's what attracts people. I hope you're not so hard on yourself.

[Blue Diadem]

127. WOAH She's not ugly.

I thought you were referring to those who thought she didn't meet their eye standards, I didn't realize you thought she was ugly.

Damn, I think those(including you) who feel the need to criticize her looks have the real issue. The pathetic undercurrent is that you and those judging her physical appearance feel she has to meet your opinion of good looks.

[RaleighNCDUer]

130. She ain't ugly. Believe me, I KNOW ugly.

She's just rather normal in a British housewife way.

If you think she's REALLY ugly, you need to get away from the TV once in a while.

[greguganus]

101. I don't think she's ugly. Her inner beauty comes out with how she cared for her parents.

I'm reminded of the movie "Shallow Hal".

[Codeine]

120. She has inner beauty.

But she's butt-ugly on the outside. How does one rule out the other?

[Brazenly Liberal]

73. I can answer one of your questions

The various talent shows - American Idol, Pop Idol, Britain's Got Talent, America's Got Talent, etc - don't bring in the professional hair, makeup and wardrobe until you're down to the finals. A first performance is with the contestant's own resources.

Susan was on TV this morning and said she had had voice lessons at one time in the past.

Who knows how much of the story she tells is true? She seems pretty genuine in these interviews, but in the end it really doesn't matter to me.

[blogslut]

75. Oh, for fuck's sake!

Yes, the people that screen and audition the contestants knew she had talent and skill. Yes, the "big moment" was probably orchestrated for maximum impact. Yes, the woman took voice lessons at one point in time.

I hate to be the one to tell you this, but show business is all about illusion.

The point is, this obscure, societally unattractive woman, has the voice of an angel.

Deal with it.

[4_TN_TITANS]

79. I did think she seemed a little too comfortable on stage,

but as far as her appearance she's lived in her mother's old house her entire life, I can understand her being what we call 'backward'. Any fashion advise she got was probably decades old!

[JuniperLea]

80. Jaysus Mehree and Joesuf!

I've known dozens of women just like her... country church choirs are full of them... so the hell what? Talk about losing the moral message here.

If this thread weren't so shallow, it could drown in its own irony.

[TNOE]

81. It must suck

to be so negative and distrusting of absolutely everything. Is there nothing that we just can't love and enjoy and surprise us, that a woman such as this comes out of the shadows and wows us all....

[Enrique]

86. it's possible to enjoy life without blindly trusting reality shows

I know it sounds implausible, but it's true!

[TNOE]

87. The reality show is NOT

the woman and the woman is NOT the reality show. Two distinctly different things.

Writer of this thread's quote:

"I don't know. But everything said about her story and her performance so far has to me almost a too perfect fairytale-like quality, to the point where it begins to seem contrived."


Sometimes beauty is just beauty and wonder is just wonder and greatness is just greatness. And sometimes dreams do come true and miracles do happen.

[Hugabear]

144. Yes - because it's a televised competition, it's automatically all fake, eh?

Besides, you do realize that there's a huge difference between a show where contestants compete against each other based on their talent, and a 'house' show where they just throw a bunch of people under a roof and watch what happens?

Would you say that a show like Jeopardy is also fake? Because using today's terminology, that should be considered a reality show as well. And therefore fake.

[Enrique]

148. no, but it might be

In the case of American Idol I think contrived is a better word.

Jeopardy might be fake too, though much less likely because people would probably go to jail if it were. Not sure if fake reality shows would be considered fraud.

Pro sports are kind of fake too, though I still enjoy them.

[Hugabear]

149. I agree that shows like American Idol may be contrived - but the talent is still real

This is why I hold the opinion that coming in 1st or 2nd place on American Idol is actually worse than finishing #3-10. Shows like American Idol & Pop Idol are focused on the mass pop culture audience. Which is why it was such an oddity when someone like Taylor Hicks defied expectations and won a few years ago, and is still being crucified in the pop media.

But while many of these shows may have a contrived format, and may try to push certain stars over others, there's no denying the talent that some of these people - most of whom were completely unknown without any prior professional experience - have.

[biopowertoday]

96. nicely said. thanks

[malaise]

90. I have a decent singing voice

My school had music and singing lessons. We were taught to sing - breathing, pacing, emotion, the works - we had form choirs, junior choirs and a senior choir. Then we competed with other schools in the annual music festival.
That started between 7-10.

I saw Susan Boyle singing in her kitchen without music this morning on CBS.
She has been singing as in performing since she was 12. She doesn't look any different than the average person performing in the British first round of the show. Indeed she looks like the average person who performs karaoke and sings on the church choir.

She's the genuine article and you're wrong to judge her by the American love of razzle dazzle. Read her life story.

Go Susan!! I'm in your corner.

gr.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

91. Obviously, you've never seen how some people go on in early stages of American Idol

[snooper2]

94. idjit

nt

[Evoman]

100. I don't think the audience or the judges knew what was going on.

However, I wouldn't doubt the producers do. As far as I'm aware, not every contestant on American Idol or the talent shows gets to go up in front of the main judges. You go in front of a panel of pre-judges, who let you go in front of the celebrity judges once they've decided your good enough (or terrible enough to be made fun of).

One of my friends tried out for Canadian Idol. She didn't get to go in front of the celeb judges...she went in front of another panel of pre-judges.

Think of the logistics...you couldn't have EVERYONE who wanted to try out go in front of the celeb panel. It would take forever.

[northernlights]

102. why would you think a hoax?

Many, many, many plain people have good vocal instruments and take voice lessons. Her voice training looked and sounded to be about 3rd-4th year level -- about the same level as mine and many of my singing friends. Rank amateurs, all of us. The more attractive get leads in community musical theatre or solos in community chorus productions. The less attractive tend to get overlooked even at the community level.

She's been singing for 35 years, so that's plenty of time for her vocal technique to have reached auto-pilot, freeing her to focus on musical expression even under duress.

Her performance struck me as totally honest. She simply has lived that song -- it's a reflection of her experience of life. Unlike the attractive ones who have doors opening every other minute. Same as the rest of us unattractive ones who work and wait decades for a single opportunity...

[Karenina]

128. Thank You.

[CTyankee]

145. I agree. Also, it would be hard to replicate that balding spot on the top of her head.

You could see it when she bowed...

[Sequoia]

110. Because only beautiful people can sing?

[Hugabear]

140. Many beautiful people CAN'T sing, yet still get multi-million dollar recording contracts

How fair is that?

[Sequoia]

155. Miley Cirus comes to mind.

[Karenina]

166. So does Diana Krall.

[Sequoia]

167. I have no idea who that is.

[-..__...]

115. I was thinking more of Benny Hill

[spanone]

121. hmmmmmmm

[Skidmore]

122. Could it just be possible that there are people in the world

who are truly talented and just don't get breaks? What a cynical and snide comment. Let one middle-aged woman realize a dream. It won't hurt you. As another middle-aged woman, I revel in her achievement. She is a gracious and talented person, deserving of the recognition she is receiving.

[Missy Vixen]

152. Skidmore, you rock

>Let one middle-aged woman realize a dream.<

I'm another middle-aged woman who burst into tears when I realized I covet her courage. We all deserve to realize our dreams, don't we?

I hope you get that chance, too.

[omega minimo]

124. Yes and that East Lothian accent was Spot On. Suspicious................

[opihimoimoi]

126. The world lost 30 years of hearing her voice...think of all she coulda been singing

since 17.....we are the losers.....

Nevertheless...she is here and what a pleasure to hear that voice, that humility/sincerity/courage...so refreshing...paul potts was good....she is as good if not more of a suprise....

At the end of the show...she was crying like a baby for Happy....that made me cry....

[Hannah Bell]

135. I think she *was* presented in a purposefully frumpy way - more frumpy than her norm.

i think the judges knew what was going to happen, too.

but the bios right from the start talked of her having been involved in the local/regional "entertainment scene" in her area of scotland.

Doesn't make her a ringer. I know people in my own town of 25K with professional voice training, & like her they sing at local venues, sometimes for pay, sometimes not. Some of them hoped to be stars, too.

There's plenty of talent out there. The best live performance I've ever seen, one that brought me to tears though I didn't even understand the words, was a Japanese schoolteacher singing traditional popular Japanese songs at a free performance.

It's just a myth that talent is rare. "Success" is rare, talent is ubiquitous.

The essentials of the story seem to be true unless the producers rented her a council house & bribed all her neighbors.

[Hugabear]

136. Why, because she's old and not sexy enough?

How fucking offensive is that, for anyone to suggest that it must have been a hoax or some sort of attention-grabbing spoof. I thought she sounded wonderful, and I am very glad to see people like her get a chance to shine, who normally would never get that chance.

[Hugabear]

142. Is there a way to UNRECOMMEND this thread?

The more I think about it, the more it really pisses me off and offends me that people would automatically assume that this is some sort of publicity stunt, that it's a hoax or prank.

[omega minimo]

143. Their loss, either a neurotic habit or prank. NO PATHETIC PISSING can deny the POWER OF THAT VOICE

[TrogL]

150. I am a vocal teacher. No, it's not a hoax.

Here's why.

• She's singing along with a pre-recorded tape. Of course she's got the phrasing right. She doesn't have any choice.
  
• She's sung in amateur choirs. There's plenty of talented amateurs. Any choir directory worth his salt should be able to teach someone to her level. Choir directors also teach breathing and other vocal technique.
  
• Her stage presence sucks. She's got a single gesture she uses over and over. It happens to work for this piece.
  

Note: I'm not denigrating her performance. She did a fine job with this piece. I'd like to see what else she can do, especially in other genres. There's some opera roles that would suit her.

[Marie26]

153. Then check this out:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[andras]

157. the show found me

one thing is clear:
as ms. boyle herself says, the show found her (that is they
must have had a reason to wanna have her on, i would guess it
to be them knowing of her ability to sing)
does it make her a hoax? hardly - but it is a well oiled,
engineered project and the show's judges no doubt were well
aware of her ability, unlike their facial expressions would
suggest.

hear the interview with her, and the interviewer himself
loosing a beat as he's being told that it was the show which
initiated the contact . . . .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5ZBfiMv6Ak - 4:45 mark on

[JI7]

158. Didn't she say she was a Professional Singer ?

or had learned enough to be professional. either way she didn't deny she had talent .

[XemaSab]

160. She's polished

But hell, I've taken voice lessons.

That doesn't mean a lot.

[Sebastian Doyle]

162. Well the media sure seems to be forcing the story on all of us

I don't recall such a fuss being made over any other contestant of a British TV show that doesn't even air here.

Probably the most attention the American version of the show got was from the male Britney Spears impersonator.

[Odin2005]

165. The stupid! It BURNS!!!