Should people who have given up on America participate at DU?

[bryant69]

Poll question: Should people who have given up on America participate at DU?

Not whether or not they should be allowed to; that's the moderators call (for the record i'm in favor of them continuing to participate if they choose to on general principal). But if you have given up on America, should you continue participating at DU? Or should you go somewhere else and do something else?

Bryant
Check it out--> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[GreenPartyVoter]

1. Just becuase they gave up on America does not mean we have to give up on them

[rzemanfl]

2. I chose "I like to vote" but I live in Florida, so a fat lot of good that

does...

[Swamp Rat]

3. I like to vote.

:D

[CrazyOrangeCat]

5. I like to vote, too.

I meet strange and interesting people when I vote.

[Swamp Rat]

10. You never know who might show up.

:D

[CrazyOrangeCat]

12. So true!

Luckily, he ain't in my precinct.

Sheeesh, what a pie-hole!:wow:

[cali]

4. I know what you're saying

and which post you're referring to, but really I don't see it as people who have given up on America so much as people who are, well, not too swift.

[hang a left]

6. Ya know bryant

I think that there are a ton of people here, whether they post or not, have some sense of impending doom.

Don't get me wrong. I have been in the fight for quite some time. But I got to tell you the fight seems futile at some times.

I copied a post from Peace Patriot a few days ago. I can't do a search. But it went to the greatest with 54 votes yesterday.

I know you can search so find it please. It is the essence of our great problem.

[jakem]

7. If people have 'given up' then they are not on DU.

They might be cynical bastards, but if they have given up on America they are not bothering to spend time here.

Kind of like expatriots who spend their time obsessing over what they moved away from- they havent really left. Sad.

[ComerPerro]

15. I say the US is a lost cause, yet here I am

[mnhtnbb]

28. Not necessarily so. Just returned from Panama checking on the construction

of what will probably be our retirement home.

We may yet decide NOT to retire permanently to Panama--but as things go we are increasingly thinking we will. If we do, we will certainly continue to have an interest in the US, because our two sons will most probably still be living here. However, we don't expect to wake up every morning cursing Bush
and the damage the Repubs have done to this country.

Why Panama?

Tropical island setting on Caribbean/no hurricanes (we're in Bocas del Toro)

Favorable property/tax laws

Relatively safe country (unless some Bush like Poppa decides to invade it)

Stable currency (dollar)

Good economy (booming and will continue with Canal expansion)

Less expensive than US

[chknltl]

8. Can I vote often???? I can vote for the quitters...they won't mind.

Did anyone else catch that episode of South Park where folks had to stick their heads in the dirt in order to send a message to the folks over in the Middle East? Not sure why I brought that up here...

[stillcool]

9. I think it's time for me to give up on DU...

Who's version of "my" country do I need to align myself? Am I allowed to question, complain, get angry? Or, do I just need to spout predictions for 2008?

[bryant69]

20. Overreacting a little, aren't you?

Nothing wrong with questioning complaining or getting angry; I encourage all three. But giving up and encouraging others to give up is not the same thing as questioning complaining or getting angry, it's giving up.

Bryant

[stillcool]

52. perhaps....

At one time I had thought that the more vile posters provided me with lessons in tolerance and acceptance. Now the mean-spirited, self-righteous blow-hards don't seem to have any redeeming qualities, and serve only as an impetus for knee-jerk reactions which I'm tired of providing them.

[bryant69]

54. Well why don't you go bitch to skinner and get anhy

mean-spirited, self righteous blow-hards you should happen across banned; I mean if they don't have any redeeming qualities anyway.

Bryant

[stillcool]

59. Why would I do that?

The problem is obviously mine, and the answers to my problems are not found in someone elses behavior. I believe attempting to get someone banned is self-righteous and mean-spirited in itself. The redeeming quality of the content of DU is mine to ascertain, and when the negative aspects outweigh the positive, it is time for me to take a break.

[UTUSN]

11. Who (the-cheenee) has "given up on America" = why does it have anything to do with DU??!!1 n/t

[bryant69]

24. I'm referring to this post

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=543330&mesg_id=543330

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Heddi]

13. What do you mean "give up on America"?

Do you mean people who are moving, have moved, or are planning to move out of the country (because I know that people who live out of the US, or are planning on leaving the US, have much scorn heaped upon them).

If those are the type of people you mean, then I'd have to say "shove it". In about a year (give or take a few months), my husband and I will be moving to Ireland to live, and to work as nurses. After about 5 years of living in Ireland, we will apply for citizenship (and most likely receive it based on our being nurses, etc).

Once we leave, we have no intention of coming back to the US aside from seeing family and attending funerals.

America has abandoned us. We have fought, we have protested. We have written letters and served our country (in more than one way, by the way). There is nothing, and I mean NOTHING, that America has to offer that a host of other countries in this world can offer as well, and usually without the blatant strings attached. We are NOT the shining beacon of freedom and democracy that we once were.

There was a time in my youth when I would travel the world and had no problem telling people I was from the US. I never felt the need to hide my passport while standing in line at the airport.

However, since 2000 (and more particularly since 2001), my husband and I have actively told people we're Canadian when we travel to Europe, etc. When we do confide in others that we are, in fact, American, we don't get disgusted looks but rather looks and words of sympathy.

Why should I live in a country that I'm not proud to admit that I'm from?

The first time we were in Europe and purposefully--*purposefully* put Canadian flags on our bags to 'hide' our nationality was the first of many indications that I should not continue to live in a country that shames me so much.

And it's not just the politics. It's the culture. The lack of culture. The inhabitants of this country.

I've lived on both coasts. North and south. East and west. I've been below the poverty line and I've been well above middle class and every single spot in between.

Now that we can not only afford to move, but have the credentials that are desperately needed and desired, we are going to move.

But don't worry, all of you who hate us that leave the country. You'll still be living off our tax dollars that we are required to pay to the US even though we don't live here and don't work here and don't work for US companies. But I never see y'all looking to repeal THAT tax law.....

[bryant69]

21. I am not talking about you

Or people like you. I don't think much of your choise, but it's yours to make not mine.

That said are you posting messages encouraging the rest of us to give up and follow your route? If so than I question the value of what you are doing.

Bryant

[alarimer]

40. I'm with you; I wish I could do that

And I might, if I could find a job somewhere. Even temporarily living somewhere else would be a good thing. You are right it is the inhabitants of this country that are problem (and the people they elect because they are too stupid and keep believing all of Bushco's lies). Some people talk a good game but nothing every happens to change. I know that our potential nominees are good people for the most part but they are corrupted by corporate money in the campaigns. And that is the problem with this country in a nutshell: corporate greed. Everything that is wrong with the US can be laid at the feet of corporations and their endless greed: the loss of good-paying jobs you can keep for a lifetime, health care or the lack thereof, our BUY, BUY, BUY consumerist mentality. We need Teddy Roosevelt and his trust-busters again.

You talk about American culture as if there were any. Oh you can find symphonies and ballets in many cities. But that's for the liberal elite, don't you know. :sarcasm: I admit to be a cultural elitist though. We read, watch thoughtful movies, listen to good music not fed to us by Clear Channel. But we are a minority in the country. Look at the popularity of American Idol. They put such shit on TV because we continue to watch it. And there is no shortage of contestants because everyone wants their 15 minutes.

But with the prevalence of American corporations worldwide, I am not convinced any place is safe.

[Eurobabe]

55. Just an article in the WaPO, people who have lived abroad

for years, are suddenly going to American Embassies to turn in their passports. Sick of paying taxes to the war machine. I personally can't wait to get dual citizenship in the EU. I'll see how it goes, maybe someday I'll be heading the the US Embassy too.

[Bonobo]

14. "Love it or Leave it", huh. STFU. This is a place to rant, not a friggin' temple.

[bryant69]

25. Touched a nerve have i?

I'm sorry; but I don't hold myself responsible for your guilty conscience.

Bryant

[AlCzervik]

16. worst poll ever imho.

[eleny]

17. You must

One lonely vote wasn't enough. And besides, - you must!

[PassingFair]

18. Fascist Poll

Glad I don't work for this guy!
It's bad enough that we can't use
the "e" word at work. Psssst : (the economy)

[bryant69]

19. How is it fascist?

I'm not saying they shouldn't be allowed to; I'm saying maybe they should't. If you can't tell the difference than maybe it's you has a perspective problem.

Saying people shouldn't watch pornography is not the same thing as saying that pornography should be outlawed. You might disagree with the first statement but it doesn't infringe on your liberty.

Bryant

[Eurobabe]

22. this poll is flamebait n/t

[bryant69]

26. I prefer the term provacative.

Bryant

[slackmaster]

23. People who have given up on America should get the hell out

Canada is nice this time of year.

[depakid]

56. Some of us are very much looking forward to it

The reality is that America (and Americans) have poor prospects for the future.

[slackmaster]

61. Your post brings to mind a comparison of recession and depression

If your neighbor is out of work it's a recession. If you are out of work it's a depression.

[depakid]

64. It's simply a recognition of structural problems

both in the economic systems and in the US Constitution that will prevent the country from making the changes necessary to deal with the problems of the 21st Century.

For instance, to break the stranglehold of money and corporate capture of the government would require a Constitutional Amendment- yet such Amendments don't have a shadow of a chance of passing.

Economically, there are similar difficulties due to Americans being locked into a "psychology of prior investment," whereby the vast majority believe that things are just going to go on the way they always have, despite the end of the era of cheap petroleum and natural gas- and despite the pillaging of capital (including natural capital).

Those chickens will come home to roost, and Americans will have no effective means of dealing with them.

Let's face it- we've spent the last 25 years divesting in education and destroying local commerce networks- along with our manufacturing base. Many regions have almost no mass transit- and rely on thousands of miles of supply lines. We have two generations now that have effectively been propagandized by the far right. Along with other matters (increasing income inequality for example) and what one sees is not a formula for a soft landing.

[H2O Man]

27. I hear ya.

Loud and clear.

[pampango]

29. Hell, yeah. Maybe they can convince the rest of us to give up on

America. The RW would love them for that.

[Oilwellian]

30. Worst poll ever on DU

It's a classic example of WHY people are giving up on America. I'm becoming more and more convinced there really has been a dumbing down of this country.

[porphyrian]

31. Anyone who follows DU rules can do whatever they want within those rules.

Beyond that, who should get to say who should stay or go?

[bryant69]

35. Why don't you read the original post?

But allow me to repeat myself; whether or not they should be allowed to is up to the moderators, but I think they should be. But should they choose to continue to participate?

I think people should be allowed to do all sorts of things that I don't think they should actually do.

Bryant

[porphyrian]

44. I did. Why do you assume I didn't? I simply stated my position.

Why don't you try not being an ass?

[bryant69]

45. I'll stop being an ass about the same time you do

But I assume I can continue being an ass for a good long time

Bryant

[porphyrian]

46. Yes, your compulsive assuming is your problem. - n/t

[omega minimo]

53. The OP doesn't say what you mean: "given up on America" or what you're referring to

:shrug:


There's a couple votes for "Worst Poll Ever"-- Maybe that could be a category. :evilgrin:

[Radical Activist]

32. fatalist negativity brings everyone down.

It isn't productive. People who have a "woe is me, all is lost" attitude can participate but they should also keep destructive negativity to themselves, unless they're asking for a pick-me-up.

[philosophie_en_rose]

33. No. And this poll is ambiguous and phony.

!

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

34. Yes. Even Misguided And Melodramatic Posters Can Participate Here.

[KG]

36. some days, DU can't be beat for pure comedy.

:silly:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

37. What does "America" have to do with it?

Are we required to be "patriots" fighting for America?

"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good." Thomas Paine

[bryant69]

39. Good point - I should have clarified

If you aren't from America obviously, you aren't required to give a shit whether America survives or not.

I apologize for my failings.

Bryant

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

41. I am from America.

I just feel no particular allegiance to it - or any other country.

"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all." --Thomas Jefferson to Francis Hopkinson, 1789.

[bryant69]

42. Than, when it comes to America, what do you advice your fellow DUers to do?

To fulfill Jefferson's mandate?

Bryant

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

43. Whatever their consciences as "free and moral agents" tell them to do.

Leave, stay, fight, surrender, have a cup of coffee, take a nap, or resist the imposition of tyranny in whatever form by those who seek to impose it from whatever source.

[blondeatlast]

38. DU is mostly entertainment, whether we like it or not. And bitching is therapeutic.

Yes, we can spur activism, yes, there is some damn good journalism here, yes, we're all smarter than the average political bear-wonks.

DU's administrators have managed to allow its members a big degree of control over what we want to see, and they have tremendous backup if stuff that clearly shouldn't be here, gets here. I encourage all to make use of it.

And not including an "other" option is cute--and not in a good way.

[mmonk]

47. Define given up.

[stranger81]

48. why is there always a guy who wants to purge others from DU

for not living up to his (or her) own personal list of ideological requirements?

And why do you want to be that guy?

Leave the brownshirt crap for the freepers.

[bryant69]

51. Again, for like the ninth time

I don't think people should be purged from DU; if they want to let them continue to participate. I'm asking is it a morally sound choice to choose to continue to participate and bring other peopel down once yuo have concluded there's no hope.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Madspirit]

49. America

America gave up on me before I gave up on it. I'm a lesbian. I have been homeless. I live in poverty. I can't get the medications I need. I am uninsured. ETC. America gave up on me long before I gave up on it. America...change it or fuck it.
Lee

[chaska]

50. Would a canary have an opinion of coal mines?

[WritingIsMyReligion]

57. What a dumbass poll.

What are you, the arbiter of all things DU? Of everyone's mental state?

[bryant69]

58. I'm just asking a question

And letting people answer it themselves; how does that make me the arbiter?

[slackmaster]

62. Note that "This poll is biased ambiguous and phoney" has 63% of the vote

:D

[treestar]

60. Some people feel pessimistic on some days

I don't think there is anyone who has given up to such a degree that it is a permanent fixture of their opinions that would even be on DU in the first place. Such people as you describe are too apathetic for DU.

[Hosnon]

63. Sure. First: Very few people have "given up on America". That's such a loaded statement that

it's hard to know what you mean.

But in any event, someone who has "given up on America" can do whatever the Hell they want, in my opinion. In fact, I welcome them here because they provide a fresh point of view.

Edit: Didn't vote.

[BlooInBloo]

65. Maybe you think this is Haven'tGivenUp Underground - that's around the corner....

... That said, I fucking hate doomsdayers.