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If our SEALs can take out the Pirates like they did - why not take out OBL that way?

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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 11:05 PM
Original message
If our SEALs can take out the Pirates like they did - why not take out OBL that way?
No big crazy war in Afghanistan or Pakistan...no carpet bombings...just a bunch of SEALs (or Greet Berets, Special Forces, etc) go in in the middle of the night, fill OBL and his bunk mates full of lead, take a picture, and get the hell out?

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Webster Green Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
1. Because he's been dead since 2002?
Just a guess. :shrug:
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Kitty Herder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-13-09 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #1
36. Ding, ding, ding!
I think we have a winner.
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Cynical Guy Donating Member (55 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
2. A few reasons.
1. Gotta know where he is.
2. These pirates weren't exactly well funded or trained or armed...
3. If OBL is indeed where we think he is, he's inside another country's borders and we're not willing to cross them without permission.

I have a feeling at this point that we know where he is, and that he is not a threat. If we go in there now, it would upset relations with a very unstable Pakistan, and it would also generate sympathy among other terrorist organizations.

So, I think we're just waiting for him to do something stupid like show up at the local Wal-Mart in Karachi so we can round him up quietly.
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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Ummm... across which country's borders?
If your referring to Pakistan, then you don't keep up on current affairs, we have no problem violating their sovereignty.
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Cynical Guy Donating Member (55 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. No need to be testy.
But anyway, I have been busy, so I might have missed the news about us sending troops across the border and bombing sites within Pakistan. All I've heard about are drone attacks, which are still totally out of line, but are not going to get the job done.

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ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 11:11 PM
Response to Original message
3. A lot of reasons:
1) This was a sea battle where we had total firepower supremacy and controlled everything around for miles.

2) The sea is flat and hard to hide in when you don't have a submarine.

3) These guys aren't in OBL's league.

4) OBL is hiding out in the mountains of Pakistan where access is very very difficult and hiding places are many.

Doug D.
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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Bullshit.
Edited on Sun Apr-12-09 11:22 PM by arcadian
The U.S. has has total global supremacy, land, sea, air, space, ether, etc. The world is a very small place. We could still get him anywhere on the planet if he still existed.
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ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. I cant tell you if he's still alive or not but we have a lot less control over
Afghanistan and Pakistan than we do over the Indian Ocean.

Unless you just want to nuke them.
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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. We occupy, Afghanistan. Remember, you break it you bought it?
And we have bases in Pakistan.
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DonCoquixote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #5
17. BS
If you really think that any nation has total global supremacy, you are drawing your thoughts from the same well as the freepers. All the tech in the world will not substitute for Geographical protection, which is one thing OBL has, and the pirates did not (at least on the sea, if this had gotten to land, we could have seen a replay of Black Hawk Down.
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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Black Hawk Down was a movie.
Edited on Sun Apr-12-09 11:54 PM by arcadian
Try cracking a book once in a while :hi:

edit: Okay it was a book too, try reading that.
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DonCoquixote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-13-09 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #18
23. Ha ha
And somehow, your sarcasm undoes about 500O years of history that says that if you are up in the mountains, invaders have a hard time dealing with you, unless they can commit MASSIVE amounts of troops on the ground. Ask the Soviets.
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JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-13-09 06:40 AM
Response to Reply #18
27. It was a movie based on a book, Black Hawk Down: A Story of Modern War, which chronicled
the Battle of Mogadishu. Also referred to as The Battle of the Black Sea or, for Somalis, The Day of the Rangers.

:hi:

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Duke Newcombe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-13-09 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #5
19. One word: Somalia. One more: Iraq.
Two words: Blackhawk Down.


I don't quite agree with your evaluation of our supremacy.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. The fact that he's not being towed behind a destroyer might also enter into the equation
;-)
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 11:21 PM
Response to Original message
6. Or Saddam. I thought Cheney had a hit squad.
I know this is OT. But I was doing a bit of extrapolating on this subject tonight. I tried to confine it to my own head until I saw your post. I'm not getting involved in the pirate discussion. I have nothing to say. There's no outrage.

But it does beg the question. It almost furthers my thoughts of why we had to create a kind of world war three just to take out Saddam. Anyways, it's not like we've beaten that one to death around here.


So have this in the meantime. It's like a good martini substitute-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mhx44UGscn4
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. The answer is we didn't need a war to get Saddam or OBL. Bush wanted a war.
The neocons stole trillions of dollars through that war. in so many ways....
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-13-09 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #14
20. Exactly. This is what hurt us who knew, so much.
But this is all rhetorical. We just had to sit and watch.

The evidence surrounding it is overwhelming. Revealing Plame, lying to the UN, and on and on. The strength of the judicial system is also it's weakness. We here have connected the dots. But they just can't be connected in a court of law without the connecting evidence. What a shame. But there will be justice. I can't imagine there not being.

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Brooklyns_Finest Donating Member (747 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
8. OBL is dead
His second in command is still alive, but the border region of Pakistan is very hard to get to. Our best chance to get those guys were during the fight of Tora Bora. Unfortunately, we relied on Northern Alliance forces instead of US troops for the fight.
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Wiley50 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 11:26 PM
Response to Original message
10. OBL stays out of little lifeboats drifting off of Somalia
Edited on Sun Apr-12-09 11:26 PM by Wiley50
But if they heard he was in that situation

I'm sure he would be dead meat
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sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-13-09 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #10
22. You get the prize for Best Answer (nt)
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 11:27 PM
Response to Original message
12. You got to find him first.
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notesdev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
13. First
they have to sneak him out of the complex beneath Virginia where he films the videos for election season.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-13-09 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #13
30. .
:evilgrin:
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glowing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 11:47 PM
Response to Original message
16. Because OBL is either dead; or the man cannot be captured due to
relations with the Saudis and our ever loving need for oil. Look at what happened after 9/11, all the Saudi royalty bin Ladin's were wisked away on privatly arranged jets; while countless other American's around the nation were stuck--grounded from taking any flights and worried sick about another attack.
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old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-13-09 12:18 AM
Response to Original message
21. I understand the US military had OBL actually in gunsights
and did not get permission to shoot. I am not clear on the details, but there was a Special Forces mission after him and they actually had him, but were told to stop.

mark
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Are_grits_groceries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-13-09 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #21
37. Google "Tora Bora." nt
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-13-09 01:37 AM
Response to Original message
24. According to Bhutto, before she was assassinated,
OBL is dead. Probably has been for some time.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-13-09 05:45 AM
Response to Original message
25. We need to know where he is, first. nt
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conspirator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-13-09 06:29 AM
Response to Original message
26. Because life is not a hollywood movie, and there are dumb terrorists and smart terrorists nt
Edited on Mon Apr-13-09 06:29 AM by conspirator
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ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-13-09 07:29 AM
Response to Original message
28. Because we haven't had him surrounded by Destroyers and likely a sub lurking under him too.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-13-09 07:34 AM
Response to Original message
29. But if we did that, the US wouldn't have the chance to go into the area with overwhelming force
And dictate the placement of pipelines and other such matters under the guise of "fighting terror" We wouldn't have a chance to try out all our new toys, like the drones, we wouldn't have the chance to spend lots of money, thus enriching the merchants of death even more.

This is what should have been done from the beginning, small strike forces. This is what we should be doing now. But instead, our corporate masters want more money, which means more war, which means that we continue to try and use a sledgehammer to kill a fly.
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Juche Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-13-09 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #29
34. That is my speculation too
Edited on Mon Apr-13-09 08:58 AM by Juche
Emphasis on speculation, but that is how I feel. If Delta Force had killed Bin Ladin then the rage we were feeling as a country over 9/11 would've been partly satiated and we would've been less likely to support a war in Iraq (which was packaged as revenge for 9/11 by the Bush admin). But the Bush admin wanted to invade Iraq and anyone who has paid any attention can see that the Bush admin only viewed us as a focus group to manipulate to get their own agenda done. So maybe (huge emphasis on maybe) Cheney or someone else blocked any serious attempt to kill Bin Ladin because they wanted to channel our rage as a nation into supporting a war in Iraq instead of watching it dissipate after Bin Ladin was killed.

Again, emphasis on speculation.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-13-09 08:02 AM
Response to Original message
31. that's precisely how it SHOULD have been handled
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QueenOfCalifornia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-13-09 08:03 AM
Response to Original message
32. Because he isn't
sitting in a little boat, at sea, surrounded by war ships?
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Juche Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-13-09 08:53 AM
Response to Original message
33. I really don't know what is going on
There are thousands of special forces soldiers in the US military in organizations like the berets, Rangers, Recon, AF commandos and SEALs, but the best soldiers from those organizations are picked to work for Seal team 6 and Delta force and those are the units that work with groups like the 160th helicopter pilots to go after Bin Ladin.

A guy under the pseudonym Dalton Fury is a Delta Force operative who claims we could've killed Bin Ladin back in 2002 but he got orders from above not to. I have not read his book, but it is something to look into. He has done TV interviews as well.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/10/02/60minutes/mai...

http://www.amazon.com/Kill-Bin-Laden-Commanders-Account...



There is also speculation, as some have said, that Bin Ladin died back in 2002.

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/osama_dead.ht...
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NeedleCast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-13-09 09:00 AM
Response to Original message
35. Easier Said Than Done
Even if OBL is still alive, it's not like he's advertising his where abouts. He's hiding in some of the harshest terrain the world has to offer.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-13-09 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
38. Because there's no actual intere$t in "taking out" OBL, even if he's alive
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davepc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-13-09 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
39. Bush didn't let them.
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Pharlo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-13-09 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
40. Who can be certain we didn't.
This was a well publicized Special Forces Operation. The Elite Special Forces are trained for the NOT well publicized operations. Things most people will never know about - why do you think so many of them die in 'training accidents'? 'Training' is the official story.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-13-09 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. I thought the expression was "He became a signalman before he hit the ground"
But yes, you're right
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