Christian Nation? Okay, Say You Got Your Wish. Now What?

[20score]

For those that learn their history in church or current events from right wing radio, using a meaningless phrase printed on our money to prove we are a Christian nation must seem logical. But our money did not form or structure our government. That was the Constitution, which does not mention God or a creator. The fact that the Constitutional Convention went on for weeks and the founders just forgot to include God or Christianity in setting up a Christian nation, seems like quite the oversight. So, the modern day theocrats usually bring up the “endowed by our creator” phrase from the Declaration of Independence. Still not making this a Christian nation. To say we are a nation made up of mostly Christians is true, but that does not translate into being a “Christian nation.”

"Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard." (Leviticus 19:27)

But if tomorrow morning, say at 9 AM EST we did become a real Christian nation, what would be our first order of business? We now have to figure out what religions we will allow to exist and which will be outlawed. Lets say that we are open minded enough to allow all Christian denominations and also the Jewish faith. The others faiths and the non-believers will have to convert right away, and that opens a whole new set of problems on what punishments to mete out to those who don’t comply. Now, since church will be compulsory and disobeying the Sabbath laws will be punishable, what do we do with Seventh Day Adventists and people of the Jewish faith?

“do not plant your field with two kinds of seed. Do not wear material woven of two kinds of material." (Leviticus 19:19)”

And here’s where it really gets tricky. Since even people within the same religion, lets use Catholics, disagree strongly within the church itself on which rules to follow, who will decide which rules we will apply? Everyone, and I mean everyone who claims to follow the Bible picks and chooses which rules/laws they will follow. Obviously for you the easy rules are no more abortions and no homosexual behavior. But what about slavery? Is that okay again? Selling your daughter? I mean she is yours. Should stoning be brought back to punish adulterers and people who blaspheme? What about eating shellfish and wearing two different types of clothes? And these questions cannot be blown off. Life will change. Who gets to pick which rules from the Bible the country will follow? Should we set up a council of elders and religious leaders like Iran to set up our new laws? Or, how about we go back to the experts for guidance, look to medieval times when they really knew how to mix church and state?

44"As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are around you. 45 You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their clans that are with you, who have been born in your land, and they may be your property." (Leviticus 25:44-45)


Theocrats, explain.

[ejpoeta]

1. that is the problem with the bible and 'christian nation' ....

people pick and choose what they want to follow and ignore what they want to.

[The Straight Story]

2. That is OT stuff, better question would be what we be if we were a jewish nation in that case

;)

[20score]

3. But that's where they get their objections to homosexuality and abortions.

The OT.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

8. Well, some point to Paul

and one of this letters to the Corinthians. But that tirade is against all kinds of sexual activity--Paul would rather people pray than procreate--thoughts of sex distracted one from thinking of the divine, he thought (obviously never heard of Tantric Yoga).

[The Straight Story]

9. Some get it from the NT (but it is not as direct) - and I agree with you actually

They do use the OT for BS purposes, but then fundies are intellectually lazy when it comes to theology. It is too hard to read things in context (historical, et al).

[ihavenobias]

19. Exactly. I bothers me to no end when (some) Christians dismiss it as the OT

After all, the very foundation of their moral code (The Ten Commandments) is from the OT!

[Jackpine Radical]

4. It's really very simple. All Christians except heretics will be welcome

to do what they please, as long as their actions and thoughts are in accordance with the principles of the One True Faith. The precepts of the One True Faith are the simple, logical, and eternally valid ones taught by my church. Unfortunately, there are only 37 adherents to the Church of the One True Faith. We are praying for a pestilence to fall upon the heretics.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

6. Yes, and only you 37 will go to heaven

the rest are condemned to hell, right?

[Jackpine Radical]

10. Well, 33 or 34 of us maybe. A few of the members are a little iffy in my book.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

5. It would only work if only one type of Christianity was allowed

all dissenters would be tried, convicted, and exiled or executed, much like what happened in the Puritan Massachusetts Bay Colony. And, after a while, those "godly" people would start turning on themselves, claiming there were those amongst them who were witches. And we know what happened when that started.

Let me keep my secular state, thank you kindly.

[TK421]

7. None of the scenarios you played out above will come to pass

I know for a fact that too many people are beginning to wise up to the concept of religion these days

No theocrat here, I agree with what you are saying, just that I'm not worried about any of that shit happening in the least....too many of us just wouldn't stand for it

[20score]

11. I don't think it will. I've just read and watched numerous things today where people were

calling this a Christian nation. I'm sick of it so I'd like them to follow what they're saying to a logical conclusion.

[TK421]

13. They are in the minority...and we hear about these wackos all the time

and don't hold your breath waiting for a logical conclusion....

[zeemike]

12. Although your premise is correct your use of the OT is not

a good argument. Why? because the christians will just point out that Jesus did away with all that even though that too is incorrect to some extent.
The best argument is the words of Jesus himself and if they are used the christians claims fall apart quickly.
First for example when the Pharisees ask Jesus if they should pat taxes to the government (Rome) Jesus said "Render to Cesar the things that are Cesar's" a clear example of separation of church and state.
Second on the question of public prayer he said "do not do like the hypocrites do and pray in public but lock your selves in the closet and pray in secret" and that makes the churches in clear violation of the commandments of Jesus their Christ.
Then there is that whole Sermon on the Mount thing that is completely ignored by Christians.
And then there is the "what you do to the least among you you do to me" which through cold watter on their positron on welfair...
And I could go on and on but I think you get my point.

But there is one part of the OT that Jesus did tell them to follow and that is the ten commandments and we clearly do not as a nation or as christians follow one of them and that is "Remember the Sabbath and keep it holey"
Because the remembering of the Sabbath was not about going to church one day a week but about a day of rest for all men. And there is more.
The land must keep a Sabbath one out of every seven years and given a rest. And every 7x7 years or on the 50th year all debts were to be forgiven...that is the big one...
So so called Christians should be careful what they wish for.

[20score]

14. Yours and The Straight Story points are well taken. But I am talking about people who follow people

like John Hagee. Who says things like this:
"So I believe that the judgment of God is a very real thing. I know there are people who demur from that, but I believe that the Bible teaches that when you violate the law of God, that God brings punishment sometimes before the Day of Judgment, and I believe that the Hurricane Katrina was, in fact, the judgment of God against the city of New Orleans."

Very much an Old Testament kind of guy. These are the people I am writing to in the post .

[zeemike]

16. But if we don't have one now then would we not have to

create some kind of commission to study the matter and find out what it means to be one?
And would that not include using the teachings of Jesus to determine just what it means to be a christian nation?
that could open a big can of worms for John Hagee and his ilk.

[20score]

17. More complications! And I thought being a Christian nation would be as easy as saying it.

This will be hard.

[suede1]

15. K&R. Well written!

[20score]

26. Thanks!

[20score]

18. There was a video posted here and on another site I had an argument with someone who

claimed he went to law school. He also said we were a Christian nation and the constitution was just God's wishes. (Or some semblance of that.) Plus other news stories.

Well, I just had to write this.

[Two Americas]

20. not what they want

The religious right is an extreme right wing political movement masquerading as religion.

Whether a person is opposed to or in support of the religious right, falling for the lie that it is about religion empowers and gives strength to the movement either way.

Moist if the right wing propaganda is not intended to rally any base - they have none - but rather to fool liberals about the nature of the opposition and distract them from where the battle lines actually are. The religious right is the cape to the bull, and the liberal bull cannot resist charging that cape and coming up with thin air - again and again and again.



...

[punkin87]

21. Good post! Glad you wrote it. I think it's pretty obvious that they don't think through what they're

asking for.

[20score]

22. Thanks, I thought it was a rather obvious question to ask.

[democracy1st]

23. good post 20score just what I needed,can't believe how fast we forget K & R

[20score]

24. Thanks!

[sampsonblk]

25. "Christian nation" is a meaningless term

How can we even debate that, when it has no meaning?

[Marrah_G]

27. My first order of business would be to grab my kids head to maine and slip over the Canadian border.

As a Pagan, let's just say I would feel less then safe.