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"We the People" to "King of the World": "YOU'RE FIRED!" ...a letter from Michael Moore

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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 07:07 AM
Original message
"We the People" to "King of the World": "YOU'RE FIRED!" ...a letter from Michael Moore
Friends,
Nothing like it has ever happened. The President of the United States, the elected representative of the people, has just told the head of General Motors -- a company that's spent more years at #1 on the Fortune 500 list than anyone else -- "You're fired!"
I simply can't believe it. This stunning, unprecedented action has left me speechless for the past two days. I keep saying, "Did Obama really fire the chairman of General Motors? The wealthiest and most powerful corporation of the 20th century? Can he do that? Really? Well, damn! What else can he do?!"

This bold move has sent the heads of corporate America spinning and spewing pea soup. Obama has issued this edict: The government of, by, and for the people is in charge here, not big business. John McCain got it. On the floor of the Senate he asked, "What does this signal send to other corporations and financial institutions about whether the federal government will fire them as well?" Senator Bob Corker said it "should send a chill through all Americans who believe in free enterprise." The stock market plunged as the masters of the universe asked themselves, "Am I next?" And they whispered to each other, "What are we going to do about this Obama?"
Not much, fellows. He has the massive will of the American people behind him -- and he has been granted permission by us to do what he sees fit. If you liked this week's all-net 3-pointer, stay tuned.

I write this letter to you in memory of the hundreds of thousands of workers over the past 25+ years who have been tossed into the trash heap by General Motors. Many saw their lives ruined for good. They turned to alcohol or drugs, their marriages fell apart, some took their own lives. Most moved on, moved out, moved over, moved away. They ended up working two jobs for half the pay they were getting at GM. And they cursed the CEO of GM for bringing ruin to their lives.
Not one of them ever thought that one day they would witness the CEO receive the same treatment. Of course Chairman Wagoner will not have to sign up for food stamps or be evicted from his home or tell his kids they'll be going to the community college, not the university. Instead, he will get a $23 million golden parachute. But the slip in his hands is still pink, just like the hundreds of thousands that others received -- except his was issued by us, via the Obama-man. Here's the door, buster. See ya. Don't wanna be ya.

I began my day today in Washington, D.C. I went to the U.S. Senate and got into their Finance Committee's hearing on the Wall Street bailout. The overseers wanted to know how the banks spent the money. And many of these banks won't tell them. They've taken trillions and nobody knows where the money went. It certainly didn't go to create jobs, relieve mortgage holders, or free up loans that people need. It was so shocking to listen to this, I had to leave before it was over. But it gave me an idea for the movie I was shooting.

Later, I stopped by the National Archives to stand in line to see the original copy of our Constitution. I thought about how twenty years ago this month I was just down the street finishing my first film, a personal plea to warn the nation about GM and the deadly economy it ruled. On that March day in 1989 I was broke, having collected the last of my unemployment checks, relying on help from my friends (Bob and Siri would take me out to dinner and always pick up the check, the assistant manager at the movie theater would sneak me in so I could watch an occasional movie, Laurie and Jack bought an old Steenbeck (editing) machine for me, John Richard would slip me an unused plane ticket so I could go home for Christmas, Rod would do anything for me and drive to Flint whenever I needed something for the film). My late mother (she would've turned 88 tomorrow if she were still with us) and my GM autoworker dad told me in the kitchen they wanted to help and handed me a check for an astounding thousand dollars. I didn't know they even had a thousand dollars. I refused it, they insisted I take it -- "No!" -- and then, in that parental voice, told me I was to cash it so I could finish my movie. I did. And I did.

So on that March day in 1989, as I was driving down Pennsylvania Avenue, my 9-year-old car just died. I coasted over to the curb, put my head down on the steering wheel and started to cry. I had no money to take it in to be repaired, and I certainly had nothing to pay the tow truck driver. So I got out, screwed the license plates off so I wouldn't be fined, turned my back and just left it there for good. I looked over at the building next to me. It said "National Archives." What better place to donate my dead car, I thought, as I walked the rest of the way home.
Though it wasn't easy for me, I still never had to suffer what so many of my friends and neighbors went through, thanks to General Motors and an economic system rigged against them. I wonder what they must have all thought when they woke up this Monday morning to read in the Detroit News or the Detroit Free Press the headlines that Obama had fired the CEO of GM. Oh -- wait a minute. They couldn't read that. There was no Free Press or News. Monday was the day that both papers ended home delivery. It was cancelled (as it will be for four days every week) because the daily newspapers, like General Motors, like Detroit, are broke.
I await the President's next superhero move.

Yours,
Michael Moore
MMFlint@aol.com
MichaelMoore.com
(Go State!)

P.S. Please know that it has not been lost on any of us from the Rust Belt how our corporate bigwigs were treated (remember, the auto companies wanted a loan, not a handout) compared to how the titans of Wall Street got trillions of free cash, lunch at the White House and a photo op with the Prez. Trust me, we get it. And, if there is a God in heaven, the thieves of Wall Street will soon pay. Also... the sight of our president having to promise that he would back every GM warranty and give consumers a bonus if they trade in their old Grand Am for a hybrid, was alternately sad, hilarious, and just plain weird. This is what it's come to: the Commander in Chief of the Free World is now Mr. Goodwrench. Jeesh.
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 07:30 AM
Response to Original message
1. "it has not been lost on any of us from the Rust Belt how our corporate bigwigs were treated"
The p.s. is the most poignant point in my opinion.

The fact that the general populace is getting screwed while Wall Street gets trillions is going to bite Obama and Democrats in the ass. People are dumb but they aren't that dumb.

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snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 07:49 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. I too think the screwing of the American people will become regretful for
President Obama. He reinforced his position today in London stating that looking for those who are to blame is history. We must move forward; we are all responsible.

I don't understand. I have lived responsibly; Wall street has been irresponsible as have their oversite companions. You're right--we're not dumb......I realize that special people can do what they want to do regardless of the harm inflicted upon others. Big problem.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #3
33. It is also quite a bit worse than that.
Edited on Wed Apr-01-09 04:39 PM by truedelphi
He has allowed his appointees at Treaasury and at the Fed to give away probably a decade's worth of USA's money to the various BailOut programs. And at no point are these firms liquidated and then having their contracts burned and whatever decent assets they contain sold off.

Instead, the BailOut money and "Toxic Asset Buy Up" money is being dispersed to the various financial institutions in such a way that the contracts they have made must be honored.

Thus we saw over last week that AIG and other banker's bonuses were honored. But that is only the tip of the iceberg.

Since the contracts state that the losses to the counterparties to the Credit Default Swaps get paid first, there is no way to really set a company straight.

The Credit Default Swaps being bets made on the value of the CDO's and SIV's. If the Bailout and Toxic Asset Buy Out money was paid in such a way as to resore at least some of the CDO's and SIV's, then perhaps many of the Credit Default Swaps would not come into play and would not need to be paid out.

All these plans are is tremendous shift of wealth from the median incomed to the top .05% of the wealthy.

And yet, we are supposed to shut up about it, because Obama is so nice.

He may be a nice guy, but he is going to have a bit of explaining to do when people finally wake up.
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #33
45. This will serve as justification for the return of the 90% top marginal tax rate!
Now if all of those at the top of the ladder don't like it and say they are getting blamed instead of their criminal CEO brethren, tell them that with the system in place the last 30 years, THEY also had the opportunity to change it for the better if they were so noble and correct the corrupt criminal malfeasance with their own campaign dollars, but they just stood on the sidelines and reaped the benefits their criminal brethren sowed. Now it's time for them along with the criminals to pay the price of their crimes.

FDR had it figured out. It's time we return to that again to restore the wealth balance with a vibrant middle class again.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-02-09 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #45
65. I just discovered this terrific quote of FDR's
Edited on Thu Apr-02-09 01:21 PM by truedelphi
I am paraphrasing, but basically he is saying at a rally in 1936 at the Madison Square Garden "It is as dangerous to collude with organized banking as it is to collude with organized crime."

Actually, it may well be more dangerous. The Mafia actually fed people and helped people who had once done them favors and then became disabled. The banking crowd in this country has helped insure that we have no decent health insurance. Even though it is We the People that pay through the nose for the usurous banks that strangle us.

The Mafia in Chicago offered loans at a rate of 150% when I was growing up in Chicago. The PayDay loan centers now offer rates of 900%. That is Nine Hundred Per Cent!! But with Congress being owned by the banking crowd, will it change?

They enjoy us getting financially wasted by medical bills, and then having to take out loans.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. We are not dumb, just powerless. Again, it's who cares what we think or want or need.
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. Not entirely powerless.
We do get a chance to use our strength every two years in the voting booth.

On second thought, that doesn't always work out all that well either.


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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #10
38. As long as men with guns defend the status quo, we're powerless. nt
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
46. What is the difference between
The Financials and The Car Manufacturers? And why are The Manufacturers getting all the heat? UNIONS.

Also The Financials have become a huge part of our GDP while The Manufacturers are a small part now.

No, I don't see Ed Liddy of AIG getting a pink slip, do you? And they're the worst of the worst. I think Michael is too personally involved in this one to see it straight.


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burning rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #1
49. That's the money quote, alright.
Obama needs to wake up and realize that the 2008 victory wasn't necessarily permanent. Working class Americans put trust in Democrats, and if top Democrats continue to suck on class issues, it's going to be a short-lived victory.
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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 07:43 AM
Response to Original message
2. K&R
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MelissaB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 08:05 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. Another K&R
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unkachuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #6
53. and another....n/t
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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 08:03 AM
Response to Original message
4. i don't buy it.
moore sees a superhero, i see a declaration of war on the working people of the auto industry. who freaking cares about wagoner? if it's not him it will be some other multi-million $ a year asshole. who's bailing out the ordinary citizen? not obama.
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harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #4
13. Hard to say. I think more importantly Obama is working on fixing the board
If they get a number of new board appointees who are the right people it will mean much more than Wagoner being gone.

We aren't hearing anything about the board of AIG being shaken up. I think that says a lot.
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George II Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #4
19. Has anyone here actually taken the time to READ the "stimulus package" or any of the "bailouts"??
You might be surprised. But then no one will have anything to whine about!
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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #19
43. Thank you ........
You reminded me of that scene in "Fahrenheit 9/11" when John Conyers laughingly asked Moore if anyone honestly thought that their elected representatives actually read all the bills that came across their desks. He found the naivete laughable.

When I start reading a post here that takes off on what Obama is doing with Wall Street and the auto industry, or what he's not doing in terms of war crimes, gay marriage, any number of other issues, I just stop reading and skip right on because I think Obama has to know what the country's priorities must be.

But, I am also convinced that, in the matter of bailouts, the people who are bitching about what our government is currently doing don't have the slightest idea of what they're talking about.

Saves time and reinforces what my old teachers told me - that an empty vessel makes the most noise.

I don't pretend to understand any of it, but I do share Michael Moore's astonishment and pleasure at our President taking charge and making changes.

So, thank you for your simple and cogent observation.

:toast:
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-02-09 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #4
58. exactly. nt
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donco Donating Member (717 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 08:04 AM
Response to Original message
5. I wonder it the nine-year-old car he had, that died
happened to be made by GM?
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WannaJumpMyScooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. well, if it was only 9 years old
that would make it a 1980 or 1979 model, not good years for GM

so, yeah most likely
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George II Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #7
20. GM hasn't had a good year since the early '60s.
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WannaJumpMyScooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. mid-80's
were pretty good... 74-75 okay, 66-68 were good

other than that, yeah, it has been pretty bleak
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #5
21. And we paid to have it towed.
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 08:55 AM
Response to Original message
9. Toon: President Goodwrench




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EC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. Except none of those things are covered by warrenty...
and what is covered isn't likely to fall apart before the warrenty expires...it's just another racket...I've only been covered once on warrenty - the rest was usual maintance.
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
11. k+r
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Froward69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
12. Poor Duckie...
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Patchuli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #12
51. I agree, poor Duckie!
Graywarrior promised to let him go after Bush left and Obama was sworn in and as you can see, HE DIDN'T!

That duck makes me claustrophic!
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JitterbugPerfume Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
14. Michael Moore
truth teller
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
15. Thanks for nothing Oprah-you brought us this crap-same shit, different day.
Edited on Wed Apr-01-09 12:26 PM by earth mom
I'm not sure, but I think Michael Moore gets it-because this letter can be read as approval or a sarcastic slam against Obama.

Hopefully it's the latter and Moore will continue to skewer the powers that be.

I also hope his new movie exposes the massive corruption in Washington DC so that it wakes up those who bought into the fake "hope and change" Obama's buddies like Oprah sold people who wanted change and hope so badly they desperately and naively bought into the lies. :puke:
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psychmommy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. oprah didn't bring it.
i didn't get the same negative vibe from mike that i am getting from you. obama has made changes. if he hadn't done anything but throw money at the car companies everyone would be bitching about that. i am tired of hearing right wing talking points on du. where's the change? i see or hear something everyday. i have no expectations of him being able to snap his fingers and accomplish everything. before the meme was he is doing too many things at one time and now it is where's the change? the change is we have a president that is doing something about a lot of things. do i nuclear non-proliferation talks? do i hear repeal some of bush's crap? do i hear people pissing and moaning that their pet issues aren't being done their way? do i see rw bs on every site i go on now, even the entertainment sites. i can feel the desperation oozing out of these posts and threads. he still have over 50% of the people waiting to see if things work. i am giving him longer than a couple of months to fix what took 8 yrs to bring down.
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dmr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. Thank you. Rome wasn't built in a day.
I don't get how people think the President has a magic wand to immediately effect multitudes of changes in a culture that is a deeply ingrained toxic battleground.

Everybody's got an opinion, but what they don't have are all the facts, nor do they have to be the one to face the music each moment of every day.

I'm willing to give my president time. What I've observed of him is a very, very intelligent and methodical man. I'd rather him effect changes slowly to obtain an outcome that benefits my nation. I'm mature enough to appreciate that I will not be pleased with all his decisions.

Born and raised in Detroit, I don't like the double-standard between the blue collars and white collars. The UAW & Teamsters afforded my friends and family with a good, but not lavish lifestyle - people who were the back-bone of this country. These are the people who paid their taxes, supported their communities & schools, sent their children off to wars, and kept the economy moving. The president knows this - he saw it in Chicago.

I think the president is just getting started with Wall Street and the big bankers. We don't really know what happened at their lunch last week. We only have the words of the bankers - big-shot men who'd say anything to save face to protect their interests.

I'm with you, I'm giving him more than a couple of months. Ronald Reagan started this shit, and it's going to take time, fortitude and our support to break this more than a generation worth of toxic culture.

This is a critical time, and I won't feed the Republicans anything by publicly disparaging my president or my Senators. I do, though, let him and my Congress-critters know what I think, and I do that often.



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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #24
36. It's going to take time, yes.
But much of the time, I don't see him trying to do the right thing.

He seems to only care about business. He seems WAY too 'centrist'.

Once the time has come and gone, will we be okay again?

Only if Obama's goals are good ones.
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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #36
41. He's also changed his mind on single payer.
When he was a state legislator he was for it; now that he is President (or now that the insurance lobby has gotten to him) he is against it. Was he lying then or is he lying now? I only voted for him by holding my nose. I surely will not make that mistake again based on what I am seeing now.
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Brucie Kibbutz Donating Member (704 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #18
39. Oh, he's made some changes alright.
On who's behalf? Who benefits from it? Who is advising him on what "changes" to make? :shrug:

People aren't pissed about some false idea that there hasn't been any "change". They're pissed about the way he's gone about these "changes" with an arrogant double standard that benefits Wall Street -the people that caused all this- at the expense of everyone else.

You and the administration can go ahead and pretend this is no big deal. It may put your mind at ease, but many people that voted for Obama in November are seeing this double standard as another slap in the face and it's not going to go away.
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psychmommy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-02-09 05:56 AM
Response to Reply #39
61. the double standard is bullcrap.
we have been bailing out the big three for a long time. the management messed up and tried to squeeze all of the concessions they could out of workers. the workers have nothing left to squeeze and if management can't see any other way they need to go. so ceo #1 kicked to the curb. all other ceo's on notice. sorry i am not a one issue voter and i try to look at the bigger picture. i learned during this election cycle that the pres doesn't think like i do but he gets the job done. find another false dichotomy to harp on this issue is falling flat. even the msm isn't using it anymore.
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Brucie Kibbutz Donating Member (704 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-02-09 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #61
68. You are avoiding the issue.
Edited on Thu Apr-02-09 02:24 PM by Brucie Kibbutz
They're not upset that Wagoner was fired. They're upset that Wall Street continues to get all the money they need to operate, despite the fact that they're the ones that killed the economy. In contrast, Detroit has been loaned bailout funds only after agreeing to ultimatums given by the White House. When they didn't meet the performance goals placed on them, the President did as the task force suggested and cut them off. Even if that was the correct action to take, where is the task force demanding accountability from Wall Street? That task force doesn't exist because WALL STREET CROOKS ARE THE ONES RUNNING THE FUCKING SHOW! :banghead:

Look, I know you are obsessed with the image of this politician you love so much but it's doesn't help him when you have to go to such irrational lengths to make excuses for his bad decisions.


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psychmommy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-02-09 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #68
70. you avoid the issue by using your obsession crack.
i addressed the issue. we have bailed out the big 3 over and over. bushco put strings on their bailout and they came back for more. the workers have conceded all they could and that ceo had to go. wall streets first bail out was from bushco. i think all of you complainers have conflated what the 2 administrations have done. so keep going on with the unequal comparisons banging your head against the wall. i choose to read and learn. i don't have time for you doom and gloomers. i am obsessed and irrational, hahahaha.
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Brucie Kibbutz Donating Member (704 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-02-09 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #70
73. nope
It's not all on the Bush cartel now. Wall Street continues to suffer no consequences while their crony in the White House hands it over. So yes, you are still avoiding the issue. All so you can enjoy your Happy Obama World. :crazy:
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psychmommy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-03-09 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #73
76. yes they have to take their share of responsibility.
it is not an insult to me to say i enjoy my pres. i voted for him to get to run the country and i am gonna give him time to do it. he didn't start this crap but he is gonna work to hard to fix it. you can throw your hate around but it won't stop him.
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Brucie Kibbutz Donating Member (704 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-03-09 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #76
77. I didn't say he started it.
I'm saying his attempts to fix it are unethical and benefit only the Elite he seems to have been bought out by. No consequences, just more cover up. You still disregard that entirely because you don't want to admit what is going on right in front of you is a disgrace.

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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-02-09 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #18
64. I'm tired of seeing the extreme right wing behavior of Obama & Congress cheerleaded on DU
Edited on Thu Apr-02-09 11:42 AM by earth mom
just because it's Obama who is leading the way.

If it had been McCain who kissed Wall Streets ass and McCain who fired the head of an Auto company, there would have been an uproar around here.

But when Obama does it, to some around here it's "all good" because they refuse to see that there is NO difference between dems and rethugs anymore.

NONE.

There are only a handful in Congress who are fighting for the people anymore and if you can't see that and won't admit to it because of your Obama love, I feel sorry for you.

And btw, this crap didn't start 8 years ago. It started decades ago and was created by corporate america who own just about every politician in Washington DC including Obama.


Here, check out Obama's campaign donors from Wall Street. It's enough to make you sick although you will probably pretend it's nothing because it's "all good" when Obama does it:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


And one more thing, I don't watch the bullshit news on T.V. So there is no "meme" I'm listening to or buying into.

I get my news and info online and I make my own mind up. And one thing I've learned over the years is: Follow the Money.

You would do well to follow that creed yourself.

You might learn a thing or two about how things really work in Washington DC.
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psychmommy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-02-09 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #64
71. well, how the heck is he supposed to fix
something in 3 months that has gone on for decades. there is a meme-whether you get it online or rush's radio waves it is the same theme. he's not doing his job, where's the change. he is anti labor. he is anti blue collar people. he is in the pocket of big business. he is too liberal or conservative. the handful you are talking about in congress are the conservadems i am sure. i will reserve my judgement. he doesn't have a magic wand, he can't crinkle his nose and make it happen. i knew i didn't want mccain in office and therefore didn't vote for him. sorry i don't see extreme right wing behavior and i can see the change. i have a pres that works everyday. he is not on some ranch playing with wood. he is trying to do something. he wasn't even sworn in and folks tried to get him to do something. i'm tired of seeing extreme hysterical posts like yours.
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psychmommy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-02-09 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #64
72. well, how the heck is he supposed to fix
something in 3 months that has gone on for decades. there is a meme-whether you get it online or rush's radio waves it is the same theme. he's not doing his job, where's the change. he is anti labor. he is anti blue collar people. he is in the pocket of big business. he is too liberal or conservative. the handful you are talking about in congress are the conservadems i am sure. i will reserve my judgement. he doesn't have a magic wand, he can't crinkle his nose and make it happen. i knew i didn't want mccain in office and therefore didn't vote for him. sorry i don't see extreme right wing behavior and i can see the change. i have a pres that works everyday. he is not on some ranch playing with wood. he is trying to do something. he wasn't even sworn in and folks tried to get him to do something. i'm tired of seeing extreme hysterical posts like yours.
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change_notfinetuning Donating Member (750 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
17. It's too bad that a person like Michael Moore could never get elected in
our present "democracy". I wonder what the founding fathers would think about that.
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LuckyLib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
22. GM and other autoworkers continuing to love their executives makes no sense.
Those SOBs led them down the primrose path for years, refusing to build smart or fuel efficient. They had to be dragged into making seatbelts standard equipment, remember?

Your executives have not been your friends, and you should be on the side of the worker and in favor of minimum compensation for every fat cat automaker CEO!
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Brucie Kibbutz Donating Member (704 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #22
42. You missed the point entirely.
I've yet to see anyone shed a tear over the ouster of Rick Wagoner. In fact, UAW workers were pointing out Wagoner's incompetence for years. What people are pissed about is the double standard in place where Obama dictates to Detroit with an iron fist while coddling Wall Street thieves.
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KitchenWitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-02-09 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #42
74. Ding ding ding ding ding!
Exactly.
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tomreedtoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #22
48. And where are our UAW scolds on this thread?
They were sitting here, insisting that Detroit cars were not rusty rattletraps, and that if we didn't buy their cars we were traitors to America and the working man. They denied that their executives were making bad decisions and designs. They were standing shoulder-to-shoulder with the management that was firing and outsourcing union members.

So what do you say about this, UAW guys? And I'd rather you not change the subject to how evil the banks are; we know they are. What about your own industry, guys?
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Brucie Kibbutz Donating Member (704 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. UAW labor didn't design and engineer rattle traps.
Labor just assembles the parts they are given to work with. If they are given poorly engineered parts to assemble, all they can do is make a poorly engineered car with it.

What do you say about that, NeoCon Reaganites?

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tomreedtoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-02-09 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #50
56. That's the point I kept making, and UAW Guys shot me down.
I did not blame the working man. I blamed management and their insane ideas of what a car should be. And if the union people were true to their roots, they would have never stood with their idiot bosses and defended their decisions to make those lousy cars.

But they did. I guess I can understand them wanting to keep a paycheck, and thereby propping up their corrupt overlords, except those overlords have been cutting their paychecks and outsourcing their jobs. Did the UAW and management actually become each other, like the end of Animal Farm, with the ruling "socialist" pigs looking exactly like the "fascist" humans?
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Brucie Kibbutz Donating Member (704 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-02-09 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #56
59. I see what you mean about them not liking criticism.
I have criticized the cars a number of times on another forum but they always took it as though I was attacking their work ethic or their job skills. Denying the obvious didn't help them at all but I wouldn't expect them to threaten a strike or something because their bosses were determined to design shitty (for the most part) cars.
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tomreedtoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-02-09 06:24 AM
Response to Reply #59
62. But I thought they SHOULD have struck against their bosses.
Because, in a sense, they were right. Labor and management are both responsible for building usable and valuable products. They have to work together to make the best products.

My argument is that labor allowed management to run the automotive business into the ground. "Who cares if we're making crap," they might say, "we're still getting paid and they're still letting us keep the union." The union response to this affair has been one way, to support management no matter what. Management has no responsibility towards the union, or for that matter the automotive consumer.

Well, now the customers are voting with their pocketbooks (as if we had some kind of choice). We haven't any choice but to hurt both automotive management AND union members. We can't buy crap just because it's American-made. And Detroit's never listened to what customers say, only what their own marketing people believe will "sell."

The unions could have made the case for better products; they could have represented us consumers to management, in a more direct way than us simply turning our backs. But they didn't, or felt they shouldn't. And as a result both labor and management may soon be out of work.
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Brucie Kibbutz Donating Member (704 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-02-09 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #62
66. "Labor allowed management to run the automotive business".
Isn't that management's job? I don't think the UAW can be held responsible for management doing a bad job. Wagoner did a bad job for a long time and it took no less than the President of the United States to force him to face some consequences for it. I don't know how the UAW could be expected to hold him accountable.

Let's be honest about sales right now. All manufacturers have seen their sales decrease drastically in this economy, not just Detroit.
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CubicleGuy Donating Member (271 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
23. Sounds like the way things ran under Bush
He has the massive will of the American people behind him -- and he has been granted permission by us to do what he sees fit.

Yes, I seem to recall that a President was allowed to invade Iraq because the American people were whipped to a frenzy and were behind him on that one as well.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #23
35. Obama is even using the same people Bush had on board to do this.
There is only one Party - the money party.
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guruoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
25. He must have missed this...
'I was wondering why Ford and GM being treated so differently by the Federal Government,
and why Ford was able to reach an agreement with its workers, and why GM is demanding
additional concessions from its employees. So, I took at look at its debt ratios, and wow!
What a difference. My question is why?' ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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obiwan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
27. I lived in the Midwest for years. Back in the early 1980's I saw what was happening...
... in Detroit and elsewhere and I got the hell out.

We the taxpayers gave billions of dollars to Detroit. IMHO we are now shareholders in GM- damn right we can fire the CEO of GM because if he stays, corporate-think will remain intact and GM will ask for more and more money from us without cleaning up their act.

Sure, it's tough love but the workers at GM and Chrysler have to deal with reality. Things can't go on the way they have. The free ride is over. It's unrealistic and unsustainable. It's a free market, and you can't sell the public something they don't want.

Nowhere is it written that the American public is responsible for the welfare of auto workers. The government never took care of me. I took care of myself. Lord knows I could have used its help, but I pulled my poor ass up and survived on my own.

President Obama is right to fire Rick Waggoner. The guy is a greedy blood-sucking spud boy.

That's not a right wing point of view. That's reality.

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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
28. When he successfully fires a Wall Street Bank exec, you can start peeing yourself with excitement
Firing the head of an auto firm isn't exactly as exciting or revolutionary as you think it is.
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DWilliamsamh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #28
34. Remember AIG? Its head was fired as well. (n/t)
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Brucie Kibbutz Donating Member (704 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #34
52. Who fired him?
Did Obama make that call?
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #52
55. Negative Ghostrider.
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0xDEADBEEF Donating Member (71 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
29. President Obama Didn't Fire Rick Waggoner.
Obama didn't fire Waggoner. He simply stated terms for a government bailout loan. GM could take it or leave it.

Rick Waggoner's way wasn't working out too well for them. I guess they decided to try it Obama's way.
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Brucie Kibbutz Donating Member (704 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #29
54. How are the Wall Street CEO's working out for them?
Evidently, it's not working out too good because they keep demanding more money and their loyal crony in the White House keeps handing it out. How come he doesn't state similar terms for them? Why doesn't he tell them to take it or leave it? :think:
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jmg257 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
30. Great stuff when the state exerts such power. The next 'Bush' could be more thrilling then the last!
The problem with an intrusive government is there is a 50% chance the next guy won't think the way you do.
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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
31. "King of the World" Hehehe...
propane
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dothemath Donating Member (221 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
32. Out. Of. Touch.
I would add the following. Democrats have made a modicum of headway when it comes to the right starting point. 'We the people' includes all of us, not just the rich - or if you are an elected official who is not(yet) rich, hang on, keep sucking up to the lobbyists, corporate fascists and similar, and you will get there.

The republics have whipped their talking points dead horse to the equivalent of fish poo. Gazillions and gazillions of tons of fish poo are added to the oceans every year. Have you ever seen any? Neither have I. Same with the republics.

Every time they step forward to spew the same crap we have heard since God knows when, their starting point is somewhere above the majority of people in this country who are responsible for making it possible for the friends of the republics to steal from them. Republics love it when 'entitlements' make everyone think of Soc. Sec., Medicare, etc., when entitlements mean something entirely different to them. Can you spell 'golden parachute', 'bonuses' for driving your company to bankruptcy and getting bailed out with taxpayer money, setting up 'illegal tax havens for avoiding taxes on money you "made" in this country, ...... aww, to hell with it. Off to the hardware store - see if the new shipment of pitchforks has arrived ........................
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Kajsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
37.  I got this email this morning,
and forwarded it to many friends.

Michael knows firsthand what the auto workers
have gone through.

And big :kick: and R. for this,

Thanks, Gray.
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MasonJar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
40. And yet I heard on NPR tonight that the workers of GM are going to make even more
concessions to avoid GM bankruptcy, where they will likely fare even worse. So bailout the financial institutions because we have Geithner and Summer as advisors, but give a miniscule amount (by comparison) to the companies with large numbers of workers, who will have to make concessions while paying with their taxes to help bailout the CEOs who took enormous bonuses and who caused the debacle we are all in. I am not that impressed with this tactic personally. Why not help the companies whose existence is crucial to the livelihood of so many (not just workers at GM, etc., but also suppliers, salesmen and all the other ancillary jobs dependent on GM and Crysler)?
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Dystopian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 08:33 PM
Response to Original message
44. KandR!
Thanks for posting!

peace~
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DissedByBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
47. Take the government's dollar, play by the government's rules
He begged for the money so I have no sympathy.

A healthy company that has not asked for a cent should have no worries.
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4turePrez Donating Member (28 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-02-09 12:42 AM
Response to Original message
57. Off the bandwagon so quickly I see
I'm disappointed to see so many tried and true Obama supporters quickly jump off the bandwagon at the sight of tough decisions and with the prodding of the GOP talking points.

I agree wholeheartedly that every single Blue Collar idiot on wall street right now should be fired. However, it's easy to forget the Big picture. AIG's assets don't just impact the United States alone. They are an international company that backs trillions of dollars in insurance holdings and such in many different economies. I think Obama's strategy right now in relation to AIG and companies like it is this:

1. Keep the idiots that got us into this mess there FOR NOW to get us out of this mess.

2. Give them enough money to show the rest of the world that we're seriously committed to backing up our debts and financial stakes. First, to avert a global meltdown....second to avoid political pressure from the likes of china and other countries that we owe money to, yet are considered our biggest threats.

3. Achieve a stabilization of the markets, from which you can develop a foundation to move forward in a newly regulated and revamped capitalist system that is more robust than before, and will repay the debt effectively.

4. Fire the idiots that got us in, and helped us get out of the problem...and get on with our lives.

We can all agree that If ole GW Bush was in charge, he would have hastily fired all the executives, nationalized the entire banking system, and then given the keys to Cheney. However, we aren't dealing with that ignorant buffoon anymore...we got someone with brains and patience...I challenge all of you to take a look at the bigger picture hear and give it some time...you will see.
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-02-09 05:10 AM
Response to Original message
60. Here's what the Union in Michigan did when Obama asked for their help:
<snip>Michigan Union Labor for Obama
Michigan Organzied Labor for Barack Obama for President.

Former Clinton Labor Officials Endorse Barack Obama
By Seth H. from New Jersey - Feb 21st, 2008 at 6:48 pm EST
Also listed in: 9 groups
Please help us spread the word about this letter to your friends, union leaders, union brothers and sisters, other co-workers, and family members:

FORMER CLINTON ADMINISTRATION OFFICIALS ENDORSE BARACK OBAMA

“Barack Obama is the best choice to restore the American Dream for working families.”

February 21, 2008

Dear Friends:

We were privileged to work for President Bill Clinton in senior appointed positions in the U.S. Department of Labor, the National Labor Relations Board, and the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission during the 1990s. We have great respect for President Clinton and Senator Clinton.

In 2008, however, we believe that Barack Obama is the best choice to restore the American Dream for working families. We support Barack Obama for the Democratic nomination for President of the United States. We urge you to join us in voting or caucusing for Barack Obama.

Hope has been a rare commodity for America’s working families in recent years. The American Dream seems less and less achievable as more and more families face the threat of slipping out of the middle class. Job growth has been anemic throughout George W. Bush’s seven years in office, and it has ground to a halt in recent months. Real wages have stagnated. Forty-seven million people have no health insurance. Reliable, adequate pensions are increasingly rare. The stress of meeting the demands of work and family has grown for many adults who face the challenge of caring for their children and their parents at the same time.

Rather than shoring up the middle class’ crumbling foundations, the Bush Administration has weakened them further. Unions --- critical contributors to a strong and growing middle class --- have faced an unprecedented attack from the White House, the National Labor Relations Board, and the Labor Department. The Bush Administration has presided over irresponsible trade deals and massive tax giveaways that accelerate the export of American jobs. The Bush Labor Department launched an assault on overtime pay and continues to search for ways to weaken the Family and Medical Leave Act. Protections against workplace discrimination have been undermined by shrinking enforcement resources at the EEOC and the Labor Department, as well as anti-worker decisions by Bush’s appointees to the Supreme Court, lower federal courts, and the EEOC. Safety and health protections in workplaces and mines across the country are an afterthought.

In the face of difficult economic times and a hostile federal government, working families have been struggling to secure their place in the middle class and sustain their hope in the face of despair. Barack Obama has a plan to secure and expand the middle class and, perhaps more important, give working families reason to hope again. He plans to:

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/group/Michigan...
-MORE-

And what did they get in return? Betrayal.


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4turePrez Donating Member (28 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-02-09 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #60
63. name it
what betrayal? what exactly has he betrayed them on?
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Brucie Kibbutz Donating Member (704 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-02-09 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #63
67. I think the UAW feels betrayed
when they see the President not holding Wall Street to the same standard that he has held Detroit to. I can't say I blame them. I would have expected that sort of thing from the Bush administration.
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hiphopnation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-02-09 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
69. disingenuous at best
he hasn't fired any of those wall street scumbags. no, instead he's sent geithner to lick their boots and shovel tax-payer dollars into their turd-shit companies. color me unimpressed.
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4turePrez Donating Member (28 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-03-09 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
75. AIG CEO
We all know that the CEO of AIG right now is a replacement, right? I mean you all know that...right? so as it stands right now...for CEO replacements the score stands at 1-1. And as far as pay is concerned..the unions have been told to renegotiate their terms...and as far as on the wall street side their pay has been limited....so for pay the score is 1-1. The only disparity that sends everybody up in arms is the quantity of money were talking about. Well lets go ahead and be realistic and take alook at what percentage of the US income is comprised of the financial markets as opposed to the Auto Industry....yes....exactly. I think so far he's being as fair as he can be...to effect change, yet keep the wheels moving to make that change provide results.
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