Has anyone seen the LBJ movie with Randy Quaid?

[ChuckTodd]

They really made him look like a clown who hated Bobby Kennedy and was jealous of JFK.

[Cleita]

1. There was no love lost between the Kennedys and LBJ particularly after

a bitterly contested primary. I haven't seen the movie so I can't comment on the clown part.

[H2O Man]

14. LBJ didn't really

run in the 1960 primaries (which were far fewer in those days). His position involved saying he "wasn't a candidate," and hoping that Stevenson could keep JFK from winning on the first ballot at the Convention. LBJ knew he was too closely associated with the "parachial" status of the south/Texas to do well in the actual 1960 primaries. His power was behind-the-scenes: he hoped to convince party leaders that Kennedy couldn't win, and that going with Stevenson would result in a 3rd loss (and that Kennedy's people would not support Stevenson).

On the eve of the Convention, JFK and a few advisors were discussing Johnson's tactics. Several -- obviously including RFK -- said harsh things about LBJ. JFK, who had been aware of the "Sonny-Boy" comments Johnson made behind his back, expressed amusement. He told them that LBJ was a "riverboat gambler," and appears to have recognized the potential benefits of having Johnson as VP at that time.

[monmouth]

2. Quaid did a great job. The movie had a "B" quality to it...n/t

[tularetom]

3. Another asswipe who thought starting and winning a war in some dipshit country

would make him a great president. Didn't work out too well for him did it?

[Captain Hilts]

5. Um, LBJ didn't start it. nt

[tularetom]

7. Technically no but remember the Tonkin Gulf Resolution

that opened the door to massive increases in the level of American forces committed to that clusterfuck came right out his office.

[PVnRT]

8. We were already ankle-deep at that point

[hedgehog]

13. Ankle deep ain't neck deep.

[Captain Hilts]

19. Yes, and recently de-classified materials suggest that JFK was very concerned about...

what was going on and was reluctant to get more involved.

[Captain Hilts]

9. Eisenhower sent the first "advisers" and JFK upped the total, though

recent releases of documents in the Foreign Relations of the United States series suggest he was getting concerned about what was going on.

[H2O Man]

12. Truman.

President Truman had "advisors" there and funded the French effort, before Ike. Though I have a lot of respect for Truman, he erred in changing what had been FDR's ideas for Vietnam's future.

[Captain Hilts]

16. Yes, very true. Ho Chi Minh sent a couple of letters to FDR asking him to use his influence

to get the French out.

FDR was a true anti-imperialist, but had more important matters on his plate.

Hell, there are FILMs of the Versailles conference of Ho following Wilson around asking him to use his influence to get the French out.

A friend of mine's dad was assist. military attache there in the mid-50s. We have a photograph of him in combat fatigues - he was a Marine - carrying a briefcase in one hand and a rifle in the other.

[H2O Man]

17. Yep.

During WW2, the group that would later become known as the CIA coordinated efforts with Ho, after the French had been defeated at home. They referred to him as "our little man in the jungle."

Had FDR lived, the US would have taken a significantly different route in its dealings with Vietnam.

[Captain Hilts]

18. It's really ironic we ended up fighting him, isn't it?

FDR truly would have made a difference in reference to this had he lived.

[H2O Man]

20. It is interesting

to think how, if one thing had been different, so many other things would be different today. Far too many human beings lost their lives, or were seriously injured, and for what?

It also shows how one person can impact history.

[Captain Hilts]

4. Because he hated Bobby Kennedy and was jealous of JFK. nt

[trayfoot]

11. Underneath LBJ's public facade..

lay a man who had an inferiority complex. I believe that is what drove him. He was always trying to "measure up" - to the Kennedys or anyone else.

[Captain Hilts]

15. Absolutely. nt

[radiclib]

6. I saw it, but only remember the PeptoBismol

Lyndon liked to pound it down by the bottle apparently. BTW, Chuck, does GE pay you to post on moonbat message boards?

[trayfoot]

10. Yes, I remember it very well.

I used it as an educational tool in classes. According to people who were around at that time, it was very credible. LBJ just thought he could do in Vietnam what he did in Congress - run over the enemy like a bull in a China Shop. Didn't work in foreign policy. LBJ's domestic record - Congress and Executive - was quite good. Unfortunately, he was flawed in foreign relations.

[alarimer]

21. He was.

LBJ was a complete asshole who would say ANYTHING to get elected. He had no principles of his own or very few but would appear to agree with anyone he was talking to, and then later he might stab them in the back. He threw over his mentor Ralph Rayburn and cheated on his wife repeatedly. Which is not to say he didn't do good things. He did; his support for the civil rights legislation was instrumental. Of course it caused the Democrats to lose the South, possibly forever, but it was the right thing to do. Sometimes you have to shove this stuff down people's throats. Most Democrats (including the current President) do not have that kind of guts. They are focus-grouped and polled to death.

But then, there's Viet Nam so LBJ's legacy is definitely mixed. But he was a first-class asshole.