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Sancho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-22-09 09:03 AM
Original message
Who will teach the baby boomlet? Warning: long post...
Most DU'ers had teachers born in the baby boom and educated with dollars that expanded higher education. That included the GI Bill, the Great Society, the "Sputnik" excitement, followed by expansion of community colleges and land grant universities. The United States now has to decide if the high quality education system that provided a free high school education to an entire country for 50 years is going to continue. There's no guarantee that we'll have teachers. Examine some of the facts:

Fact Number 1: The number of kids and hard to teach kids is here now!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090318/ap_on_he_me/med_baby_boomlet

"ATLANTA – Remember the baby boom? No, not the one after World War II. More babies were born in the United States in 2007 than any other year in the nation's history — and a wedding band made increasingly little difference in the matter. The 4,317,119 births, reported by federal researchers Wednesday, topped a record first set in 1957 at the height of the baby boom. Behind the number is both good and bad news. While it shows the U.S. population is more than replacing itself, a healthy trend, the teen birth rate was up for a second year in a row.
The birth rate rose slightly for women of all ages, and births to unwed mothers reached an all-time high of about 40 percent, continuing a trend that started years ago. More than three-quarters of these women were 20 or older."

Not only are there lots of children in the pipeline, but these kids are not born to stay-at-home moms and traditional two parent families. There's no question that the new boomlet consists in large part of a single working parent and/or unwed mother. The burden on the teacher is entirely different when you face 25 students and 15 or 20 of them don't have a second parent available for PTA or conferencing or helping with homework. Some of us have been there (and are still there). After 32 years teaching in various schools and colleges (and still going), my wife and I see the changing classroom first hand. There is simply no time or money for parents to volunteer, take their children to after school lessons, sport practice, or vacation at an historical site. Yes, the good school times you may remember still happen, but most school volunteers are now retired folks, kids are more transient as single parents change jobs, and teachers see more medical issues from lack of family doctor care than ever before. Frankly, almost every class now has an example of emotional behaviors that we used to see every two or three years. Schools have a police officer instead of a school nurse on staff. Even in college classrooms where there have always been crazy college pranks and Animal House parties; there are now serious mental problems and dangerous students. Many colleges have reacted in the last few years with new "disruption policies", but it is a sign of how much more pressure is put on the education system. The person in front of the classroom has to be much more than an expert in reading or math and that takes lots of preparation.

Fact Number 2: The need for well-trained teachers is increasing dramatically as statistical predictions come true!

http://nces.ed.gov/pubs99/1999026.pdf (10 year old report that has happened.)

Predicting the Need for Newly Hired Teachers in the United States to 2008–09

"Each year over 150,000 public school teachers are hired to meet the ongoing demands of replacing teachers who retire or who have left the profession and to fill new positions in growing school districts or to address special needs or meet new requirements. In addition to these extensive ongoing demands for additions to the teaching force, many schools and school districts have faced the prospect of a wave of retirements as the large numbers of teachers hired during the baby boom enrollment years approach retirement age. - snip -

The approaching wave of teacher retirements is documented not only by anecdotal information, but by statistical evidence as well. As a group, elementary and secondary teachers are significantly older than the general labor force. The median age of public school teachers in 1993–94 was 44 compared with a median age of 38 for all workers in October, 1993. The burden of replacing large numbers of retiring teachers comes at a particularly challenging time, as enrollments in elementary and secondary schools are projected to set records each year well into the next decade. Over the next ten years, an unusually large need for newly hired teachers is expected, both to replace teachers as they retire and to meet the needs of increasing enrollments. These newly hired teachers will include both people who are new to the profession and those who are returning to teaching after some time away from the profession."

Even though it's not well-known, most states report that about half the new teachers receiving a license stay on the job less than five years. In Florida, colleges produce less than half the teacher openings. Teachers recruited from other professions drop out at an even greater rate. What's the problem? Salary is an issue, but not usually the main concern. Most normal people don't want to work their butts off while being blamed daily for almost every problem in a system of little "real" support. Not all schools or school districts are failing, and in fact most do a pretty good job with shrinking resources and larger classes than ever. As the current crop of well-trained veteran teachers retire over the next 10 years, who will take their place. My wife and I were fortunate that there were loans and scholarships for college and even graduate degrees. Twenty-five years ago, we were working and had paid off all the school debt for eight degrees! Even President Obama still owed school loans when starting his run for state office after years of working and starting a family. That's two Ivy league lawyers! How much income could a local teacher expect would repay college loans?

Fact Number 3: Obama's Education Plan shows some awareness of the problem, but is it enough to really going to put a teacher in front of your child's class! I think the plan is a little naive for the real school classroom, even though it is much better than the last eight years of hell.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/agenda/education/

"Recruit Teachers: Obama and Biden will create new Teacher Service Scholarships that will cover four years of undergraduate or two years of graduate teacher education, including high-quality alternative programs for mid-career recruits in exchange for teaching for at least four years in a high-need field or location.

Prepare Teachers: Obama and Biden will require all schools of education to be accredited. Obama and Biden will also create a voluntary national performance assessment so we can be sure that every new educator is trained and ready to walk into the classroom and start teaching effectively. Obama and Biden will also create Teacher Residency Programs that will supply 30,000 exceptionally well-prepared recruits to high-need schools.

Retain Teachers: To support our teachers, the Obama-Biden plan will expand mentoring programs that pair experienced teachers with new recruits. They will also provide incentives to give teachers paid common planning time so they can collaborate to share best practices.

Reward Teachers: Obama and Biden will promote new and innovative ways to increase teacher pay that are developed with teachers, not imposed on them. Districts will be able to design programs that reward with a salary increase accomplished educators who serve as a mentors to new teachers. Districts can reward teachers who work in underserved places like rural areas and inner cities. And if teachers consistently excel in the classroom, that work can be valued and rewarded as well."

The Teacher Service Scholarships is a great idea that is past due. The problem is that every state legislature has to commit dollars to potential teachers. Is there real money? We don't know yet, since lots of money goes to a state budget and it disappears in the state capital before making it to the college student's bank account.

The mentoring idea is not new, and it helps - but often it is not going to work in real life. School districts don't have time and opportunity available for effective mentoring or planning time. In practice this rarely has much effect because it is difficult to implement. The good teachers who stay in the career already collaborate or they don't survive. There are very, very few real examples of common planning times during the day, so schools "make time" before or after school hours. It's not a horrible idea, but in my experience going to yet another off-hour meeting can be tough. Yesterday (Saturday), my wife was at a voluntary all day meeting of teachers in her subject. They got re-certification credit which most didn't really need, but no money for volunteering to participate and the workshop was "sold-out" anyway. Unfortunately, that's the career group that are retiring over the next 10 years! They are already committed to whatever it takes. Will the new younger group have the time, opportunity, or dispositions to be the next set of collaborative teachers? I hope so, but right now the numbers are depressing.

All teacher education programs should be nationally accredited. This is the best and most powerful item on Obama's agenda. Nationally accredited and approved teacher education programs have much higher standards than about half the colleges follow now. It costs money to prepare teachers and make sure that they all have the student teaching and coursework to face the current classrooms. Many of our teacher dropouts were simply unprepared to deal with the job! The problem with Obama's plan is a "voluntary" performance assessment. You don't want medical schools that produce doctors that may or may not be able to perform surgery or airline pilots that might be able to land the plane! Certified teachers should have proven that they have knowledge and skills to be responsible for children, and we need to have more than "voluntary" standards. I suspect that many of the teacher horror stories that we've read about recently are teachers who should never have been hired in the classroom to start with, but they slipped through the cracks of weak, underfunded college programs. Many of those college programs met some regional accreditation standards, but not national teacher program standards.

As far as a "reward program", if there are really rewards that are driven by teachers, that would be great. In reality, we'll likely see more nutty test score formulas like No Child Left Behind. My wife's school was an "A" school last year by the state grading system even though it is not a high income area. When the reward money (about $800 per teacher) was sent to the school, the district asked the teachers how to divide the dough. It does not surprise me at all, but the teachers voted to split the money with all the teachers and staff in the school (including the janitor); except they asked to put some money into improvements that they all knew the school needed (the district would not do it). Not exactly the behavior that AIG bonus-getters would express! Good teachers simply have different values than Wall Street executives, and that seems to constantly be a mystery to politicians. The reason that school was an "A" school was never an offer of incentives! Most teachers never even considered a bonus the reason they showed up everyday. The school's success is embedded in every professional teacher and their commitment to each child. That can't be bought with a bonus.

Who will teach the baby boomlet? Where are we going to get good teachers for the new generation of kids? The largest generation in US history starts school in five years!
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-22-09 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
1. Whoever teaches our children, I hope they are well prepared and well compensated.
The current crop of teachers are marginally prepared, overworked, and underpaid.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-22-09 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
2. In a world that
... won't face peak oil, global warming and debt, how do we expect them to care about the next generation?

The idea of all these babies growing up without the kind of care that we received is scary. In 18 years these kids will be soldiers in some new crackpot's war if they are not taught otherwise.

At this point we need teacher colleges, staffed and run by the best of teachers. And wouldn't it be of great help in the classroom if each teacher had two aides who come from the ranks of some mothers who needed work?

Thanks for all your teaching, Mr Sancho. Although, I must admit I always gave teachers a fit. One even told me I was responsible for making her a better teacher.
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msongs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-22-09 09:46 AM
Response to Original message
3. don't need schools n teachers - all you need is your bible :-) nt
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Nikia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-22-09 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
4. There have been recent layoffs
Is it actually just a distribution problem (getting teachers to where jobs are needed.)?
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Sancho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-22-09 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. We lay off teachers in Florida; last time was 1992 - but still have shortages.
Sometimes there's a distribution problem, sometimes there's a problem with certain subjects like math, science, or special education. Usually, the budget runs short so the last hired are out of luck. Two years later, the district is several hundred teachers short and recruiting all over the place. It is not stable.
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tonysam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-22-09 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #4
18. There is a HUGE Distribution Problem in Education.
Edited on Sun Mar-22-09 05:36 PM by tonysam
It is exacerbated by the lack of portability of retirement benefits, thus discouraging experienced teachers from relocating out of state, and there is also the problem of the idiotic state requirements for certification. They make you take stupid tests--at your expense--no matter you passed a test in the state you began your teaching or how many years of experience you have. You go through stupid hoops to get certified in each state.

If Obama was truly serious about education, he would require portability of pensions for teachers and TRUE reciprocity of certification; i.e., if you are certified in one state in your education specialty, it is good in all 50 states.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-23-09 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. Yes, there was a time back in the 1960s when my dad was considering
taking a church in California (he was a Lutheran pastor). My mom, who was an experienced kindergarten teacher, looked into the requirements for being certified there, and despite all her experience, she would have been required to take California History (to teach kindergarten) and some course in statistics (I repeat, to teach kindergarten).

She has an almost magical way with small children (even difficult ones), and any school district would have been lucky to have her, but those silly certification requirements were just one reason why my parents decided to stay in Minnesota.
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glowing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-22-09 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
5. We need to go outside the box. Schools are just not able to produce the
workforce of the modern world. There is a reason trade/ community colleges are so in need. They end up producing the nurses and paramedics and office personel. One huge relief on schools would be allowing junior/ senior year to be a "trade/ collegiate" type of schooling. My junior and senior years were a waste of time. I had to find classes to take my junior year and my senior year I supplemented with college courses and independent studies. That would be one huge burden lifted off the shoulders of a school cost. 16 yr olds are old enough to have some responsibility. Most have jobs and drive; they ouhgt to get appropriate schooling as well.

The other out of the box idea is to allow prof. to come into the class and help co-teach. One great division lost in education.. even in college, is the pertinant lesson. Why will learning this help me in the real world? Why should I take the time to learn this? What type of life could a path in lit or math or art take me? AND there needs to be more time spent on outside things; things like gardening and cooking and balancing a check book and knowing what debt and earinings look like and how to read the wall street journal. These things are just not being taught at home anymore... there's little time in anyone's life.. even worse if its a single-home family. Its time to design our communities in an organized fashion that allows for us all to pull together. AND it way past the time that WE adults start demanding MORE time for our families. Its absurd that we do not demand our rights; and if denied, take them. Fear is the worst problem for Americans.
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Davis_X_Machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-22-09 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. In high school, no one.
In order to save money, and thanks to distance learning, there will be one star teacher per state, at least for advanced subject, sent via broadband video, to every school. Locally, all that will be left is a whole bunch of ed-techs to take attendance and hand out detentions. And coaches.

There'll be a boiler room somewhere for electronic submission and correction of 'papers' and such, staffed by contracted temp workers, the way the grading of the MCAS and other state-level tests are done now.

The cost savings will be enormous. 75-80% of the cost of running a school district is salaries.

School as we know it -- where you actually knew a teacher or two -- will be declared not cost effective.

The most important statistic in education -- between 3/4 and 2/3 of local voters don't have a child in the local schools.
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southerncrone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-22-09 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. You have clearly seen the future.
Sadly, I believe you've nailed, & I'm in the system. Try not to think about this, but all indicators point to this scenario becoming reality.
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Sancho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-22-09 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. That's exactly what they said when tv was in every home in the 1960's!
Believe me, I've been teaching distance courses over the internet for nine years. Whenever I get more than about 30 students in a class, there is simply no time to answer email or read responses or monitor groups. However designed, there is a limit to a course of distance learning. If everyone could learn passively, we'd all be pretty educated! Some students can self-teach and self-correct and are self-motivated...but very few.
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Davis_X_Machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-22-09 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. But you *care* about the outcome.
Edited on Sun Mar-22-09 06:52 PM by Davis_X_Machina
Think of the economies of scale if you don't.

We're heading into an environment where the fixation with saving property tax dollars -- the lion's share of education funding, and valuations are tumbling -- and cutting state aid to districts -- drying up because states can't run deficits -- is going to be far greater than it is now.

The point at which schools, at least secondary schools, as we know them cannot still be run is closer than anyone cares to admit.

Ivan Illych's de-schooling of America is coming, and not in the way he thought.
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LooseWilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-23-09 01:16 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. Ironically.. if you're right, then most humanities majors in college
... might as well become junkies afterward, because teaching is one of the few job options that works for that line of study.

Though having seen classes of up to 42 students in Oakland CA, I can't argue with the sense of your predictions. Of course, there is an underlying assumption of Bush-esque systems of values required... or else cries of "won't someone think of the children" will wind up out weighing considerations of market economies of scale... cross your fingers.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-22-09 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. That is just not true
In my district we are REQUIRED to tie every lesson into lifelong learning goals and to have this poster up in our classrooms:

WHAT AM I LEARNING?
WHY AM I LEARNING THIS?
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glowing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-23-09 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #10
21. Good for you. Most lessons just are not realistic.. and most are mundane and boring.
I know, not all class or work can be amazing and stimulating. There is some need for nuts and bolts.. but it is a waste of time to insist on pushing every child into the same avenue. We are going to have artists who don't give a shit about calculus and we will have cullinary art students who really could care less about reading shakespear. Its good to round out one's education. But we should be identifying the strengths in our children and gear their education in that manner. Then the class wouldn't be boring for some and a struggle for others. The idea that we continue to robot our children is ridiculous.
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Celtic Pax Donating Member (5 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-22-09 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
6. Boomer teacher looking to retire!
Edited on Sun Mar-22-09 09:53 AM by Celtic Pax
It will be a sorry state for everyone as the "baby boomer" teachers like me retire with few to come behind us. Teachers today are inundated with a load requirements and responsibilities that have little to do with teaching. Rules, regulations,"no child left behind stupidity", constant criticism for children failing with parents effectively AWOL in their children's lives, abuse in the homes etc. with pay that never matches the work teachers actually do above and beyond the class day. Couple that with budgets that never give teachers enough materials to teach with, inadequate classrooms with too many students, inadequate staffing and you have a recipe for disaster with the coming generation of children. I am concerned about my grandchildren and thankfully, their parents fill in the gaps that occur in school. Unfortunately, many children don't have that and I don't know where these little guys are going to get it in 5 years.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-22-09 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
8. Fact # 4:
As a veteran of 26 years, I actively discourage people considering teaching as a career.

The relatively low pay for the amount of education, and continuing education, required; the poor working conditions; the underfunding and lack of support; the over-crowded classrooms and schools; the substandard facilities and resources; the constant disrespect; the myth of the "short" working day; the outrageous practice of holding teachers accountable for test scores when they don't control all the factors involved; the cultural disdain for intellect and education; and, most of all, the eagerness to make public education and teachers the scapegoat for societal dysfunctions, thus absolving everyone else of accountability....


I think we ought to be upfront and open about the realities.

It might be hard to recruit a new generation of teachers if those realities are not addressed.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-22-09 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. I discourage them as well.
Edited on Sun Mar-22-09 05:04 PM by madfloridian
When I began teaching it was one of the most respected professions in our country. The pay was not good really, but the benefits were great.

Then we had to have a minimum of a four year degree with education as a major.

The last I read in our area they do not require that anymore. One person told me it was an associates degree required now....2 years. Some charter schools and private religious schools require less than that.

The conditions now are so bad that most of us who are retired refuse to go back to volunteer or substitute.

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tonysam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-22-09 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. Don't Forget the Really Horrid Administrators
who can make your life a total hell. The rest is tolerable if you have a good principal who supports his or her people all the way, but the best working conditions can be intolerable if you have a horrible boss. Too many schools have people who should not be supervisors of any sort.

I have been in private sector work, public sector work, private schools, and public schools, and there aren't worse people on the face of the earth than rogue administrators in public schools. They don't teach you the realities of working with these types of people in ed school.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-23-09 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. That is also a consideration.
I've been lucky to have worked with mostly good administrators during my career.

I have seen and experienced what you refer to, though. :(
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ensho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-22-09 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
9. a number of months ago I said the job losses would cause a baby boom


and here it is and GROWING.


sudden upsurge in student enrollment can be handled.

in the D.C. area during WWII there was a surge in population and school kids. many a school made more classrooms by building quanset huts. holding classes in part of the multipurpose rooms. etc.

it was true, however, that a number of less then wonderful teachers were hired. and classes became bigger, but we all managed to learn to read, write, and do math, along with art/phys ed/and after school clubs. and MOST of us graduated from high school.

I think americans are smart enough to figure out how to educate our kids. step one is to keep neo cons out of the situation.
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southerncrone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-22-09 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
11. Thank you , Sancho, for spelling out the problem so succinctly!
Your post is long because there are many problems in education.

As one of those teachers who entered the profession after other careers, I am extremely frustrated. I am also considering leaving this profession for EXACTLY THE REASONS YOU DELINEATE! And I'm not the only one.

Our education system is in tatters. It is NOT the fault of teachers, as is so often (and I might add, conveniently) where the blame is placed. This is a systemic problem. I make less that 1/2 the money that I would make if I'd continued in the business world after raising my kids. This is a travesty. However, as you simply stated, THAT is not why I'm considering leaving....it is the lack of respect across the board...students, parents, administration, & community; lack of resources; increasing number of safety issues;& lack of community-understanding of the situation that are causing my frustration.

In the 7 years that I have been teaching, the classroom has changed dramatically. ALL teachers now are expected to be Special Ed teachers because of the many disabilities of the kids we are now have in our classes. I teach HS & it is extremely evident that NCLB has "disabled" many of these kids even more. Teaching-to-the-test in the lower grades is leaving students without the ability to analyze, synthesize & apply what they have learned to everyday problems they will face. As a result, those of us at the HS level must "cram" in all this type of learning IN ADDITION to our higher-level subject matter....all while the HS standards are continually being raised & increased.

It is a telling sign that teachers with 30+ years of experience are leaving, not because of $ or because they are eligible, but because our jobs have become humanly impossible.

I will be leaving because this job has become impossible for even the best of teachers.

Education is just another area of our society that needs IMMEDIATE attention. The fact that it has traditionally been a female-dominated "industry" whose "customers" are minors (no voting rights yet) has resulted in its needs being glossed over and politicized over the years. So, here is the outcome.

The application of the "business model" to education over the past 25-30 years has obviously failed. Children are not mass-produced "products", but individual human beings! We must go back to treating them as people, not products!

Thank you again for stating the current & future problems so well.
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-22-09 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
16. screw teachers. we need more standardized tests, merit pay and bibles in the classrooms!
screw teachers.

let your brats suck on the corporate media tit. They don't need education anyway. There aren't any jobs. How well-informed do you have to be to join a gang? Celebrity news and reality TV tell them all they need to know about this world.

screw teachers.



















alas!
:sarcasm:
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-22-09 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
20. i am so glad that i've only got 30-40 years left in this earthen hell...
Edited on Sun Mar-22-09 06:56 PM by dysfunctional press
the future ain't gonna be too pretty, it really seems
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