A warning of creeping totalitarianism in U.S

[No.23]

http://www.philly.com/philly/entertainment/20090315_A_warning_of_creeping_totalitarianism_in_U_S.html

The United States, if it does not radically alter course, will become a totalitarian state. That is the argument of Sheldon S. Wolin's Democracy Incorporated.


This is no political screed. It is a brilliant, nuanced, and detailed dissection of the abject failings of the American political system by one of the nation's preeminent political theorists. It is a work that will rank as one of the most important pieces of political philosophy of the new century. By the time Wolin, who taught political philosophy at Berkeley and Princeton, is finished, it is clear that unless Barack Obama radically restructures corporate and military industrial power, our democracy is doomed.


Wolin uses the term inverted totalitarianism to describe our descent into despotism. "Inverted" totalitarianism does not revolve around a demagogue or charismatic leader, as "classical" kinds of totalitarianism do. The power centers of inverted totalitarianism are corporate and usually anonymous. It does not openly discredit democracy. It pays homage to the democratic ideal, patriotism, and the Constitution while quietly subverting democratic institutions.


The New Deal was the closest the nation came to a popular democracy, according to Wolin. But the rise of the country as a superpower after World War II led, in Wolin's eyes, to an increasingly tamed or "managed democracy." The unchecked power of a corporate elite made possible inverted totalitarianism. It has developed "imperceptibly," he writes, "unpremeditatedly, and in seeming unbroken continuity with the nation's political traditions."


In inverted totalitarianism, pliant legislators are elected by citizens - but they are beholden to armies of corporate lobbyists. Corporate media, which control nearly everything we read, watch or hear, lock out critics of corporate power (as an example, Wolin names Ralph Nader) and imposes a bland uniformity of opinion.


In totalitarian regimes such as Nazi fascism or Soviet communism, economics was subordinate to politics. "Under inverted totalitarianism," writes Wolin, "the reverse is true: economics dominates politics - and with that domination come different forms of ruthlessness."


It is hard to argue with Wolin's thesis, especially as hundreds of billions in taxpayer dollars are funneled to Wall Street while the rest of us wonder if we will have a job next month.


"The new system, inverted totalitarianism, is one that professes to be the opposite of what, in fact, it is," Wolin writes. "It disclaims its real identity, trusting that its deviations will become normalized as 'change.' "


Wolin notes that the framers of the Constitution distrusted and often feared popular democracy. They established constitutional restraints - the Electoral College is one - to protect the power of the elite. The rise of democracy was a slow, arduous struggle, decade after decade, that pitted citizens against the elite. The republic existed for three-quarters of a century before the formal end of slavery. It was an additional 100 years before black Americans were assured their voting rights. It was not until the 20th century that women gained the right to vote and trade unions were able to engage in collective bargaining.


"Far from being innate," Wolin writes, "democracy in America has gone against the grain, against the very forms by which the political and economic power of the country has been and continues to be ordered."


The hijacking of government by corporations has permitted the military-industrial complex (which, in a clever sleight of hand, is no longer considered part of the government) to bleed the country. "Big government may be the problem," Wolin quips, "but military is the solution." The social programs implanted by the New Deal have been reduced or eliminated as part of the "selective abdication of governmental responsibility for the well-being of the citizenry" under cover of cost-cutting and improving "efficiency." The official U.S. defense budget for fiscal year 2008 is $623 billion. The next closest national military budget is China's, at $65 billion, according to the Central Intelligence Agency. And yet, even in the midst of our economic collapse, the two main political parties refuse to challenge the right of the military-industrial complex to gorge itself on taxpayer dollars.


Imperialism and democracy are, Wolin writes, incompatible. But imperial politics is what we have, and since our leaders refuse to limit the resources devoted to sustaining empire, democracy will perish.


"Imperial politics represents the conquest of domestic politics and the latter's conversion into a crucial element of inverted totalitarianism," Wolin writes. "It makes no sense to ask how the democratic citizen could 'participate' substantively in imperial politics; hence it is not surprising that the subject of empire is taboo in electoral debates."


Wolin has only one blind spot, a minor one. He believes that no one actively challenges the way things are because the lives of ordinary people are "materially tolerable and safer" in the United States. But this ignores what is happening to consumers and working people in the present economic downturn. As tens of thousands of workers join the ranks of the unemployed daily, as they watch helplessly as their homes are foreclosed on, and as they are unable to pay for health insurance, they could easily turn inverted totalitarianism into classical totalitarianism. And demagogues too often crawl up out of the slime to prey on those in despair during a crisis.

[Luminous Animal]

1. We have little clue

as to how fucked we are.

[femrap]

63. WASF

We are SO fucked.

[truedelphi]

68. People remain clueless.

They are proud of how much they don't know. "This and that and the other thing are beyond my understanding" is a common refrain.

[cabluedem]

88. I agree. Lots of Americans are PROUD of being so ignorant. nt

[lonestarnot]

2. Kevin Johnson discussing tent city in his city. I wonder how many states are now seeing them

rapidly becoming the new community?

[RJ Connors]

5. I hope one pops up soon in my state,

as that may be my new place of principle domicile.

[lonestarnot]

6. I am sorry RJ Connors. What state are you in?

[omega minimo]

83. Kevin Johnson is a fucking phony

and he doesn't give a shit about "his" city. He is ruining it with the developer assholes who put his multiple child molesting, high school hijacking, reverse racism, kool aid cult of the personality, teach to the test fudge the numbers take the money and run, can't get his verb/tense right, federally indicted, paid off the girl in Phoenix and had his lawyer talk to the girl at his charter school before the police did, delusional, unqualified ass in office.

He is Sacramento's George W. Bush passing himself off (in the mirror) as "Little Obama" :puke:

[HysteryDiagnosis]

3. The only reason I can see for the Aston Martin ad in this thread

is that we need a James Bond to help dig us out of this mess. I don't think the tent cities need one.

[RJ Connors]

4. Yep, that's exactly what we have going on.

And it is subtle enough that I fear it might just work. Anytime I try to explain to people what is going on they think I am just overly paranoid and it is going on right in front of them. But still, they can not see.

[Deja Q]

7. Can you do anything about it either?

Ultimately, none of us can.

[woodwrite]

8. Not at the federal level,..no. But Wolin is absolutely right.

More than anything else, Wolin demonstrates that the great miscarriage of justice in our system is not that one party or the other performs poorly on a given issue once in power,.. but that they CHOOSE what those issues will be. When the electorate makes its electoral "choice," it is actually exercising precious little choice at all. The political industry has framed the issues, set the stakes and the groundrules and, ultimately, still pays the same piper.

National-level politics plays directly into the hands of the corporate elite described by Wolin. The solution, if any is to be had, has to originate at the state and local level,.. probably will involve a third party,.. and will depend heavily on a state's citing constitutional justification for the passage of some form of "prior dissent" resolution. In effect telling the federal government that if it goes too far, then that state will opt out of the game.

[Greyhound]

11. When there are only two players, both dependent on "contributions",

it is simple and cheap for large companies to just buy both of them.

This is where we are and it will only get worse until a critical mass of citizens act to enforce their demand to change it.
:kick:

[Two Americas]

34. I think the people are ready

When you get out away from the circle of "winners," those in the the upper 10%, professionals and educated people, the rest of the people are very much ready to "act to enforce their demand to change it." They have no leadership, and I think that is because any and all with verbal skills are socialized into something of a "palace guard," or as Malcolm called us "house Negroes."

This excerpt from a speech of his in Detroit brilliantly describes exactly how we are led to side with and defend the ruling class.

Message To The Grass Roots
Malcolm X

To understand this, you have to go back to what young brother here referred to as the house Negro and the field Negro -- back during slavery. There was two kinds of slaves. There was the house Negro and the field Negro. The house Negroes - they lived in the house with master, they dressed pretty good, they ate good 'cause they ate his food -- what he left. They lived in the attic or the basement, but still they lived near the master; and they loved their master more than the master loved himself. They would give their life to save the master's house quicker than the master would. The house Negro, if the master said, "We got a good house here," the house Negro would say, "Yeah, we got a good house here." Whenever the master said "we," he said "we." That's how you can tell a house Negro.

If the master's house caught on fire, the house Negro would fight harder to put the blaze out than the master would. If the master got sick, the house Negro would say, "What's the matter, boss, we sick?" We sick! He identified himself with his master more than his master identified with himself. And if you came to the house Negro and said, "Let's run away, let's escape, let's separate," the house Negro would look at you and say, "Man, you crazy. What you mean, separate? Where is there a better house than this? Where can I wear better clothes than this? Where can I eat better food than this?" That was that house Negro. In those days he was called a "house nigger." And that's what we call him today, because we've still got some house niggers running around here.

This modern house Negro loves his master. He wants to live near him. He'll pay three times as much as the house is worth just to live near his master, and then brag about "I'm the only Negro out here." "I'm the only one on my job." "I'm the only one in this school." You're nothing but a house Negro. And if someone comes to you right now and says, "Let's separate," you say the same thing that the house Negro said on the plantation. "What you mean, separate? From America? This good white man? Where you going to get a better job than you get here?" I mean, this is what you say. "I ain't left nothing in Africa," that's what you say. Why, you left your mind in Africa.

On that same plantation, there was the field Negro. The field Negro -- those were the masses. There were always more Negroes in the field than there was Negroes in the house. The Negro in the field caught hell. He ate leftovers. In the house they ate high up on the hog. The Negro in the field didn't get nothing but what was left of the insides of the hog. They call 'em "chitt'lin'" nowadays. In those days they called them what they were: guts. That's what you were -- a gut-eater. And some of you all still gut-eaters.

The field Negro was beaten from morning to night. He lived in a shack, in a hut; He wore old, castoff clothes. He hated his master. I say he hated his master. He was intelligent. That house Negro loved his master. But that field Negro -- remember, they were in the majority, and they hated the master. When the house caught on fire, he didn't try and put it out; that field Negro prayed for a wind, for a breeze. When the master got sick, the field Negro prayed that he'd die. If someone come to the field Negro and said, "Let's separate, let's run," he didn't say "Where we going?" He'd say, "Any place is better than here." You've got field Negroes in America today. I'm a field Negro. The masses are the field Negroes. When they see this man's house on fire, you don't hear these little Negroes talking about "our government is in trouble." They say, "The government is in trouble." Imagine a Negro: "Our government"! I even heard one say "our astronauts." They won't even let him near the plant -- and "our astronauts"! "Our Navy" -- that's a Negro that's out of his mind. That's a Negro that's out of his mind.

Just as the slavemaster of that day used Tom, the house Negro, to keep the field Negroes in check, the same old slavemaster today has Negroes who are nothing but modern Uncle Toms, 20th century Uncle Toms, to keep you and me in check, keep us under control, keep us passive and peaceful and nonviolent. That's Tom making you nonviolent. It's like when you go to the dentist, and the man's going to take your tooth. You're going to fight him when he starts pulling. So he squirts some stuff in your jaw called novocaine, to make you think they're not doing anything to you. So you sit there and 'cause you've got all of that novocaine in your jaw, you suffer peacefully. Blood running all down your jaw, and you don't know what's happening. 'Cause someone has taught you to suffer -- peacefully.

The white man do the same thing to you in the street, when he want to put knots on your head and take advantage of you and don't have to be afraid of your fighting back. To keep you from fighting back, he gets these old religious Uncle Toms to teach you and me, just like novocaine, suffer peacefully. Don't stop suffering -- just suffer peacefully. As Reverend Cleage pointed out, "Let your blood flow In the streets." This is a shame. And you know he's a Christian preacher. If it's a shame to him, you know what it is to me.

http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/malcolmxgrassroots.htm

[omega minimo]

87. oh cool! the people are ready! 10, 15, 20 years way too late!! Yay!!

Thank god it took an economic crash and government coup to wake em up!! (oh wait, the coup didn't do it, it was gas prices..........)

[Two Americas]

101. good example

The contempt for the common people implicit in your remarks is an important component of the problem.

Starting back over 30 years ago, potential leadership for the political Left has become increasingly useless and ineffective, and has been missing in action. Those with verbal and critical thinking aptitude and are channeled off into college and the white collar professions, have en masse been focused obsessively on individualized spiritual pursuits - self-improvement. The thinking there, such as it is, is that if one concentrates on spiritual development and becomes a more enlightened being, that this will lead to improved social conditions. Many now claim that this is the only way to improve social conditions - as novel and unlikely as that may be.

This drive to self-improvement, and obsession with personal internal states and spirituality, this self-centered approach, in lieu of political action and commitment or a sense of responsibility to others and to the greater good, has completely replaced the political Left, and this is the main cause of the ascendancy of the extreme right wing.

Having improved themselves, and having become advanced, enlightened, and evolved beings - in their own imaginations - they then see the common people as hopelessly backward and so therefore beneath contempt. This contempt for imagined inferiors percolates under the surface all of the time and influences all political thought and discussion.

Nothing could sabotage any and all politics that are even vaguely left wing more effectively. People are free, of course, to put all of their attention on themselves and to

....

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

106. Deleted message

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[tavalon]

92. I've never read Malcolm X before

I think it is high time I fix that situation. I may be a white woman, but I suspect I might just feel a little more unity with the field negro than with the house negro. Thank you for the introduction,

[Two Americas]

102. that's great

Thanks for saying that, tavalon.

We may not have all of the answers, but we can start asking the questions.

Much of the history of this country is suppressed, and we cannot form intelligent political positions, be an effective force for good, if we do not have the complete picture. We are trained to fear and reject and ignore and deny the history. One would think that the main activity here would be exploring and discussing the true history in order to develop a clear vision and translate that into a powerful and constructive narrative to take out to the people. Instead, we are like hamsters on a wheel, going around and around in the same circles, re-hashing the same stale arguments, spouting the same tired talking points back and forth, and then wondering why we don't get anywhere.


...

[Greyhound]

100. I really hope you are right, it has been far too long in coming.

I'm just too tired to hold my breath and not old enough stop biting my tongue.

[Two Americas]

103. waiting for the people

I have seen that expressed so often over the last 8 years or so - "when oh when will the stupid sheeple wake up?" The assumption is that we are awake, and they are not. But I am convinced that the opposite us true.

The most stunning illustration of this was when the immigrants were in the streets by the millions, demanding justice and equal rights, including the largest political march ever in the history of the city of Los Angeles. That got little or no attention from the liberals and progressives - I saw none at the marches - yet at the exact same time as that was happening, I read people here moaning "what would it ever take to get the people out into the streets?" The disconnection and alienation of the liberal intellectuals from the people is complete, and is not even seen. So who is asleep? Upon whom are we waiting?

If we are mere observers, and are holding our breath, waiting, and hoping that someone else will do the work for us, hoping that somehow the every day people will magically all become "like-minded" - will all become upscale, gentrified, educated, enlightened "progressives" just as we are - hoping to find a safe and easy way out of the crisis, then it is we who are not awake, it is we who are missing in action, it is we who are blocking progress, it is we who are in league with the rulers and who are doing the bidding and advancing the cause of the wealthy and powerful few.



....

[nichomachus]

12. Right -- just like the problem with the media

is not that the media tells us what to think, but the media tells us what to think about.

The media sets the agenda for discussion in the country -- e.g. Michelle's bare arms, or "is Obama failing?" or "is the couple down the street responsible for the banking failure?" The, while we argue about that, the corporations run rampant over us.

[tavalon]

93. You are so right

It's time for us to frame the discussion from the ground up. No matter how fun it is to laugh about how Jon Stewart did a gotcha, we're the one's getting got.

[omega minimo]

85. It would have "involved" a nop braindead population of individuals who valued democratic principles

when it still mattered

[tavalon]

91. You have an answer

No one ever seems to have an answer, they just show the problem and I/we despair. I don't see the United States remaining together all that much longer so putting out that card could actually help. I'll admit I wouldn't be too unhappy if the West Coast opted out of this grand experiment.

[chrisa]

16. Vote

When people don't vote, they have absolutely no right to complain about the government. Not voting makes you a powerless slave.

The best option is to not vote for Corporate shills.

[Grinchie]

41. Simplistic thoughts from a shallow mind

These corporate cheerleaders are appointed in many cases, by both the democrats and the republicans.

It matters not who you vote for, as the mechanisms are in place to subvert Government at will.

Ever wonder why Obama enlisted DLC rightwing repug lites into is administration? They are his insurance that the Military Industrial complex gets the impression that it will be fed on schedule, and not turn violent when it gets hunger pains.

Look at the magnitude of Opposition to the Food Safety Act H.R. 875. A widely coordinated misinformation campaign arose overnight to oppose the first bill that we have seen in 50 years to place accountability onto those that produce the food we eat. The big businesses would be held accountable for the synthetic crap and unhealthy processing techniques they use to Manufacture our food.

Yet, the bill is framed by the opposition as "Bill will soon Ban Organic Farms!! Be Scared, really scared!!". This is a prime example of inverted Totalitarianism, where they must shape opinion through lies and subterfuge, because they cannot come out and say they oppose this bill without looking the monsters, and exposed for the uncaring trolls that they are.

When one reads the Bill, you find that it would not make it illegal to grow a tomato, would not ban organic farms, and not create any more recordkeeping tasks than what is normally done to produce food for commerce. I do see entities such as Kraft food, McDonalds, Frito-Lay and all the other agri-businesses needing to hire and army of back office people to keep track of the tankers of Corn syrup, boxcars of beef, and pallets of fish patties are sourced from.

As a farmer, I ask why they are not doing this already? The answer is because the Government has abdicated it's responibility to maintain the safety of the Food Supply already. With GMO's being dumped into our food without meanigful testing, does anybody deny this?

[veganlush]

69. why is it that a Monsanto employee's spouse is a proponent

..then I wonder. I really want to be on the correct side of this issue but no one has been able thus far to show me something I can believe...I'm in the process of asking John Robbins of "Diet For A New America" fame.. no reply as yet..As far as I can tell, Monsanto makes no bones about that fact that they want to "own" species (through patents) and that just can't be good, common sense should tell us that..

[TBF]

42. The only options we are given is corporate shills. If we want our "vote" to matter

it's better to ignore their dog & pony show, and "vote" with our protests. It's the only chance we have.

[bertman]

47. Chrisa, it is RARE for anyone but a corporate shill to get the financing to compete in

either party. So, the choice becomes WHICH corporate shill to vote for. Which is really no choice at all. Witness how the DLC under the aegis of Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schulz in Florida supported the established REPUBLICAN corporatists over the much more progressive Democratic candidates. When the party apparatus refuses to acknowledge or fund progressive candidates who are free from the taint of corporatism, the fruit dies on the vine.

[flyarm]

50. how about when you vote and your vote is not counted for all the nation to see??

and they willingly accept the results, as if they are real?????
My vote was not counted,nor that of my state democratic party vote and I may never vote again.

Where were any of you when my vote was stolen???????

[cliffordu]

78. Which vote??

[caseymoz]

55. It won't help. Break up the media conglomerates. Re-adopt the fairness doctrine.

The media is their weakness.

If the propaganda machine is taken away, big corporations lose much of their control over the debate, and very quickly costs for buying ads will drop because of the competition. Require a certain amount of time be given to news, as before, with the fairness doctrine which will either opening up debate or shut up the right wing stooges who will then have to defend their positions.

What did Reagan do when he came in? He did away with enforcing anti-trust laws and rules governing the airwaves that were there to keep corporations from dominating the public debate. The results were also the division of politics into audience demographics, aggravating the conservative/liberal divide.

[Two Americas]

108. it is not conditional

The right to complain about the government is not conditional, and there should be no restrictions on it.

[omega minimo]

84. yeah that's how they get away with their shit, keep tellin yourself and everyone you know you're

helpless and "no one could see it coming" :evilfrown:

[RJ Connors]

97. I have done something about it by bringing it to people's attention

for over 30 years! But you know the saying, you can lead a horse to water...etc, etc.

[readmoreoften]

9. WILL become? Come on. /nt

[L. Coyote]

18. My take too. Where was everyone when Florida 2000 was stolen? Or 1963 and 1968?

Overthrow is not in our dictionary now??

[flyarm]

52. Or how about 2008???????????eom

[TomClash]

62. you stole my quote!

Great minds think alike :)

[newfie11]

10. We have to enforce our ideas in countries that we have no business in.

Meanwhile crying that we are under threat of terrorist. What other country has troops (or some type of military) personal in so many countries.

Look at big bad Russia, Iran,China and who out spends all of them put together. No wonder this country is in the shape it is!:grr: :banghead:

[Why Syzygy]

13. kick

:kick:

[tomp]

14. imperialism has been the problem since the turn of the century...

...and some are just noticing. THAT shows how fucked we are.

[L. Coyote]

19. Imperialism was a problem before we got rid of the king. The Ohio Company was

ready to exterminate the Natives and steal the continent before they overthrew the King's prohibition on invading Native sovereign nations.

The land in Ohio financed the USA for the onset!! The USA is a Blood Nation, built on the blood of Native peoples and of the Slaves.

[tomp]

25. i can go with that.

i was talking about imperialism in its most modern sense. people have been invading and killing people since time immemorial. little changes.

[TBF]

43. Great post - wish I could rec it. n/t

[chrisa]

15. If Fascism were to come to the US...

It would be through the blending of Corporations and Government. Corporations would become the government.

I believe things like "Only the police and military should have guns," and "Support our Troops, no matter what!" would lead us on this path. Military spending would be ridiculously high. Of course, the Troops would fight wars for the rich (even against Americans) and would be the ones who had the guns and police support. Blackwater and the US military would be hard to differentiate, since they would be so mixed together.

It's time to cut military spending to 10%, unless if we want a disaster in 50 years. However, no reason to get paranoid. If anything, we're tired of war. I couldn't see us attacking Iran or anywhere else in the Middle East without an absolute catastrophe in Government (a mass vote out of politicians in favor of peaceniks, and protectionists, along with gigantic protests of millions).

[SlowDownFast]

33. 'Corporations would become the government.'

Where have you been?

They already have.

[TBF]

44. Are you under the impression that you're not currently living under facism? I would disagree. n/t

[burythehatchet]

49. The US Treasury funds Citibank billions to keep it afloat, while Citibank

downgrades retailers because of the possibility of greater unionization as a result of the Free Choice Act. Can it be any clearer?

[tavalon]

94. You have a lot of "woulds" in your post

that are here now. You just gave the best argument that fascism is here now. Did you realize that?

And, BTW, if Obama cuts the military budget on iota, he will be, um, removed, by, um, a lone gunman, yeah, that's right, a lone gunman(a military industrial gunman, just to be clear). Do not think for a minute the military industrial complex doesn't have this nation in a stranglehold and has for the last 50 years. If the military budget is to be cut, it will be cut because the military allows it and they will not allow it.

[opihimoimoi]

17. What can we do to unfuck ourselves???

[madmusic]

20. Give our email addresses and passwords to the government

So they can protect us from the terrorists.

[opihimoimoi]

45. OOoooookayyyy.

LOL

[femrap]

66. Stop spending money at Corporations!

It's really the only power we have as individuals...how we spend our money (what little we have). I think we should set up Co-ops where we can. Become as self-reliant as possible. I want to get off the grid...geothermal, solar panels, well water/cistern, etc.

I hate Corporations. A LOT.

You do know that it was planned to put a piece of the Military-Industrial complex in each of the Congressional Districts, don't you???

[No.23]

90. Exactly right.

Boycotting is in order.

Some really massive, heavy duty boycotting.

But that's too much of an inconvenience to many.

It implies a significant lifestyle change.

Becoming knowledgeable of which retail businesses, for instance, exploit people.

And choosing to cease doing business with them.

On every level.

People aren't ready yet to make such a significant lifestyle change, however.

Which is regretable.

Because economic exploiters only know pain via their pocketbooks.

Regretable indeed.

[femrap]

98. Many who are experiencing the

foreclosure and job loss 'change of life' may just be ready to hear about boycotting! Best to focus their anger on something worthwhile.

Grow a garden, visit Goodwill, garage sales, 2nd hand stores, etc.

[omega minimo]

86. ask yourself what you didn't do to stop this and start doing that.

:thumbsup:

[onehandle]

21. The book reviewer has a book that is highly critical of Atheists.

Uh-oh. And DUers voted him to the front page.

[varelse]

31. It's not that simple

http://www.salon.com/books/int/2008/03/13/chris_hedges/

He's not exclusively aiming his criticism at one group of fundamentalists ("New" Aethists). He seems to disagree with fundamentalism of any kind.

[onehandle]

38. Bingo.

Fundamentalism lives at Democratic Underground.

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. How many of us DU'ers have been warning about this for years now?

Ok a few of us

We have even used the term (Thom Paine)

Ah, now that a prof has published it, perhaps the tin foil sheen will disappear...

No, not really

[LWolf]

23. Agreed. nt

[Raster]

26. "...perhaps the tin foil sheen will disappear..."

Puh-leeeze! There's an entire army of conspiracy smearists just waiting to obfuscate the discussion, cloud the facts and inhibit transfer and sharing of information. Lord MIC has his faithful servants even on DU... perhaps more so than most.

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. Google inverted totalitarism on this board

then come back to me

[upi402]

24. didn't Rome try this already

I guess we repeated history huh? Remember When Clitnon tried to reduce spending and the media labeled him soft on defense? and it stuck! go figure...

[Odin2005]

30. The Republic died when people were forced to choose between a populist tyrant and self-serving...

...aristocrats who opposed all change ever since they murdered reformers Tiberius and Gaius Gracchus when they tried to push through land reform while hypocritically yelling "Liberty, Freedom! Tyranny is dead!"

As Mark Twain said, "History doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes." Civilizations seem to all follow similar patterns in their history, and Western Civilization is in a position similar to Graeco-Roman Civilization in the age of the Gracchi. Our "landed slave-owning aristocrats opposing all reform" are the multinational corporate elites, which spew platitudes about "liberty" to legitimize their greed and self-interest.

[upi402]

32. Hannibal and Philip V vs. Rome

Scipio went too far and Hannibal was called back and beat the Romans. Punic wars, extension into Greece, and withdrawal, and over extension into Spain and Carthage, is what rhymes to my ear. Cato lives, and lives here. Over all, I think we are over extended and will be crushed by the weight of our military - with it's worldwide expanse of enemies.

I'm no historian at all, but I really love history. I've forgotten more than I know for sure. And I quote Twain all the time too!

All in all, we're screwn.

[caseymoz]

65. You're right, and the fact is, the Roman Republic had many checks and balances.

It's unbelievable just how they were subverted, corrupted, atrophied or abolished.

Fact is, nations are mortal. They have a life-span.

[cbayer]

27. No.23

Please be aware that DU posting rules concerning copyrighted information require that you copy no more than 4 paragraphs and then supply the relevant link.

Thanks,

cbayer
DU Moderator

[No.23]

76. Thanks.

I wasn't aware of that before you mentioned it.

I am now.

I, personally, don't think that 4 paragraphs is enough to wet the whistle of a potential reader of the link provided.

But hey, as long as the rule stands, I'll go by it.

Now, how about liberalizing the number of paragraphs that can be copied, eh?

Liberalism is good, after all.

[yowzayowzayowza]

82. Paragraph limit is based on...

fair use of copyright material, not simply board policy. :hi:

[Ardent15]

29. Nixon was key

He instilled the power of the unitary executive among his White House staff-among them Dick Cheney, Donald Rusmfeld, and Karl Rove.

[AntiFascist]

35. K&R, The threat of terrorism..

is manufactured by the totalitarian elite in order to keep us in line and afraid. Cheney seems to be their spokesperson. "Stuff Happens" means that they will not tolerate a nation that attempts to approach true democracy.

[anonymous171]

36. lol no way we will become totalitarian. More likely we will become a fascist state.

[14thColony]

61. Fascism is a sub-set of totalitarianism

as is Communism (in the Stalinist model anyway). Therefore if we become a 'fascist state' as you say, then you are merely specifying what exact type of totalitarianism it will be.

[cabluedem]

89. We already are a fascist nation. Matter of degree. nt

[ddeclue]

37. .NET Democracy anyone?

Pardon me while I make a Microsoft joke...

:)

[JohnWxy]

39. THERE IS NOTHING SUBTLE ABOUT THE CONVICTION OF DON SIEGELMANN - for those interested in fighting

totalitarianism check out policital prosecution of the former Governor of Alabama and recognize that if you keep leaving it to others to fight for democracy you can kiss your democracy good-bye: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x433033#433291 and then stand up against totalitarianism by emailing and demanding action against the perps of this travesty. (links for emailing provided at link above.)

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Baikonour]

46. Where the FUCK were these people the last 8 years?

[burythehatchet]

48. Battlestar Galactica

[omega minimo]

51. What was the question?

:spray:

The fact that this is news proves it ain't "creeping" no more.

[file83]

54. Yeah totally, like writing about the icebergs surrounding your ship proves

that your ship isn't going to strike one and sink, because HEY, WE'RE STILL FLOATING!!!

[omega minimo]

60. with a bumper sticker: "More Militerry, Less Skools," right under:

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED! :spray:


The piece sounds interesting. It also sounds like a rehash of Naomi Klein's body of work and the ignored warnings of those who watched the sea ice up over the past 3 decades.

[MasonJar]

53. The Wolin synopsis above does not mention it, but the founding fathers

were worried about corporations even as early as the beginning of our nation, as were presidents who followed, such as Lincoln. Quotes from Jefferson et al on this topic should be easy to google. Allegedly these great thinkers did not act on their concern by limiting the power of corporations in the Constitution because they decided to leave their regulation to the states.

[woodwrite]

59. And as for George Washington,...

A philosophical thinker on a par with Jefferson, in my opinion,...... In his Farewell Address to Congress, Washington even warned against the formation of political parties.

[Sandrine for you]

56. The change must be made inside the Democratic Party, at the base level

This is the goal of DU I for what I understand.

[caseymoz]

57. The only thing separating us from totalitarianism? The Internet.

They can't really control information on it-- yet, which is why Internet freedom has to defended at all costs, and kept basically democratized. We lose here and it's lost.

And the sharks are circling:

http://www.savetheinternet.com/=threat

[woodwrite]

58. The Internet is great, but it ain't the only thing....

Being the best-armed civilian populace on the planet has something to do with it, too.

[caseymoz]

64. True, but they can still deceive.

And an armed uprising is difficult to put together when the media constantly misinforms you and deceives you about facts.

[kwenu]

67. You know we are living in interesting times when the Left and Right propose to destroy the republic

in order to save it. The country is going through difficult times but have we really changed that much?

What shall we do?

[TBF]

80. You and I live in Texas. I doubt things have changed here in the past 250 years.

If anyone will rebel, though, it will be Texans and they'll probably form their own country again. That would not surprise me at all.

[reprehensor]

70. Brilliant book.

In Democracy Inc., Wolin successfully transcends the Left/Right paradigm and challenges his readers to do the same, pointing out the malevolent influence that corporate America inflicts on the U.S. political system, and by extension, the political systems of the world. Whether Democrats or Republicans are elected, important foreign and domestic policy decisions seem redundant. (e.g. Despite the new President, Afghanistan remains a battleground and the 'War on Terror' seems entrenched. Middle East policy remains unchanged. Despite a Democratic majority, Health Care reform seems a distant dream for economically over-burdened civilians.) Does the U.S. elite run the country, or do the people? Is there any hope for the present system? How do we go about changing the system for the better? Wolin provides context, research, and sorely needed scholarship on these complex issues that cannot simply be solved by voting for a different body in a business suit, or by desperately scapegoating one faction or another. This book is a small education unto itself.

I recommend it to all DUers.

Thanks for posting the above review.

[JohnyCanuck]

81. "Does the U.S. elite run the country, or do the people?"

Is it just the US elite calling the shots?

The neo-liberal website Wonkette, which had previously ridiculed "conspiracy theorists" for ascribing power to Bilderberg, seemed to take a somewhat different tone when it made the connection between Obama and Hillary’s meeting and the Bilderberg Group.

"Guess who had a very private talky-talk in (maybe) romantic Northern Virginia tonight, probably at the Bilderberg Group meeting in Chantilly? Your Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton!," states the blog. "They really met and talked, in private, Thursday night. And really, it sounds like they did this at that creepy Bilderberg Group meeting, which is happening now, and which is so secret that nobody will admit they’re going, even though everybody who is anybody goes to Bilderberg."

To have the potential future President and Vice-President of America attend a conference that debunkers have dismissed as a mere talking shop for old white men once again underscores the real influence that Bilderberg enjoys.

Not one U.S. corporate media outlet has made the connection between the location of the Bilderberg Group conference this year and Obama and Hillary’s decision to venture out to Chantilly for their confidential "tet a tet".

Not one U.S. corporate media outlet has yet uttered one word about 125 of the world’s most influential power brokers meeting behind closed doors to discuss the future of the planet on U.S. soil - while being met by the probable future President of the United States.

http://www.infowars.com/hillary-obama-in-secret-bilderberg-rendezvous/

[burning rain]

71. K and R

^

[denem]

72. DATE PUBLISHED: April 7, 2008 !!!

This is news on DU?

[arcadian]

73. An example of inverted totalitarianism.

Tomorrow I could take my camera and walk around the downtown area of a major American city taking photographs of the cityscape and have a dozen security guards, police officers and even private citizens telling me to stop taking pictures because "it's illegal". I would be stopped, questioned, asked to present ID and in certain cases have my camera and equipment confiscated. My crime? I never committed one. It's not illegal to take photographs from a public location. That my friends is inverted totalitarianism, I can't tell you how many times it's happened to me.

"9/11 changed everything" It's warning, not an observation.

[Truth2Tell]

74. K&R for self-evident truths. nt

[WCGreen]

75. I've been saying this for a very long time now...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=5227552

what we have here in the US is, more precisely, Fascism with the inverted totalitarian mode of governing as the overlay. We are controlled by the corporate culture that has melding into the military industrial complex that Ike warned us about decades ago.

[No.23]

77. Yep, so true. With one caveat, however.

Facism isn't limited to right wing political leaders.

Many so-called left-leaning administrations still maintained the MIC intact.

It's not only a dis-ease of the right.

The left can be inflicted with it also.

[Greyhound]

96. And who controls, though doesn't necessarily own outright, those corporations?

It is, as it has always been, a class war.

[WCGreen]

99. I'm afraid it will always be so...

[Two Americas]

109. yes

We could fight back, though.

[jeff30997]

79. K&R

Very informative article.Thanks.

[democrank]

95. We......the people......must make a decision.

Should we save our country or not? Will we continue to worship things like "Shock and Awe" campaigns while we ignore homeless children? Will we continue to brag about our big muscles while veterans with PTSD beg for care? It`s up to us.

[Echo In Light]

105. Thanks for posting

[yella_dawg]

107. Silly Question?

Consider the pie chart of military spending. How much of the spending in various places such as the Middle East and Latin America is actually funded by the US?