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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 04:34 PM
Original message
AMD: MacBook issues giving graphics bad rap

AMD: MacBook issues giving graphics bad rap



by Brooke Crothers
March 11, 2009 9:45 AM PDT
nanotech: the circuits blog @ CNET.com

Advanced Micro Devices worries that lingering issues--both real and speculative--with Apple MacBooks are giving laptop graphics a black eye.

In a phone interview Tuesday, Stan Ossias, director of marketing, mobile graphics, at AMD, began by asserting that my March 11 post "overstated" the case about heat and the instability of graphics processors in laptops and that some readers may interpret heat issues too broadly.

"In the case of Apple's product, I don't know what happened with Nvidia's GPU but we'd like to avoid having the negative aspects taint the entire industry," he said. (GPU stands for graphics processing unit.)

"I know that when Nvidia announced (in October of last year) publicly that it was recalling or having to rework some of its products and they took a big write-down, we had to address concerns from our customers that we were not also experiencing packaging failures because of the overheating and design flaws that they were experiencing in their product line," he said. "So, we basically had to go and calm down a lot of our customers and say, look, this is not something that's inherent to our technology, it's not something that you have to expect from any GPU."
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ret5hd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 04:37 PM
Original message
o.k.
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Sultana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. Oh, shut up AMD
Intel will forever kick your asses }(
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B3Nut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. Intel doesn't make high-end GPU's, only basic chipset-based ones
for onboard graphics on the motherboard (and they're nothing special, OK for a business box but that's about it.) AMD and Nvidia are the main 2 games in town for advanced graphics subsystems. I prefer AMD's ATI chipsets to Nvidia's, since (1) Nvidia drivers have been buggy of late and (2) Nvidia's CEO donated a large sum of money in support of Prop Hate in Calif, so I avoid them when possible. No idea if AMD took a side on that fight, but I know Nvidia did, so I won't buy their graphics cards if I can avoid it (buying corporate systems, I sometimes have to take what I get, but...)

Incidentally, Macs use Intel processors (and I use nothing but Intel CPU's in my own builds, and prefer Intel Desktop Boards for their stability too.)

Todd in Cheesecurdistan
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Sultana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Sssssshhhhhhh, I know nothing about GPUs
:dunce:

Thanks for the info :thumbsup:
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Cronus Protagonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
2. They should buy a PC!
I enjoy rubbing their noses in it, yeah, but it's not as much fun when you don't believe it like MACaholics believe it's a good idea to tell people to get a MAC every time a PC has an issue.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. My standard response: "This is Impossible, Macs are perfect"
Works every time. :)
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bainz Donating Member (278 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Like Dell or Hewlett-Packard?
"This past summer, Nvidia acknowledged that a packaging defect had led to a graphics chip problem that affected some notebook computers, including those made by Dell and Hewlett-Packard. The chipmaker said in July it was taking a one-time charge of $150 million to $200 million to cover expenses relating to the glitch. "


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MattBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. They are all PCs
A motherboard with stuff stuck on it.

The OS is not the computer.
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bainz Donating Member (278 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
3. Sounds more like a sales pitch n/t
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itsrobert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
6. The radio tech guy said he doesn't understand
why Apple our selling $6000 computers with a $50 graphics card in them.
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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. That is precisely my argument
Every Apple computer made today is just a PC tweaked and installed with a different OS.

Can I put an NVIDIA GTX 295 or an AMD/ATI HD4870 X 2 in a Mac? No.

Mac users get to settle for hardware from 1 to 2 generations past.
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bainz Donating Member (278 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Which one?
What $6000 apple computer has a $50 graphics card?
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HarukaTheTrophyWife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. The imaginary apple computer in their head
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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. A 2P Mac Pro with 8GB of ram and 1 hard drive costs $5999.00
And comes standard with a nVidia GeForce GT 120 (which is nothing but a rebranded Geforce 9500 GT)

About $50 bucks at newegg.com
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Surely you must be kidding.
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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Nope
Go to Apple.com and build a new system with 2 Intel "Nehalem" processors at 2.93 ghz and choose 8 GB of ram, and the price is $5999.00. Scroll down to the Graphics area and you will see that it comes standard with a GeForce GT 120.

Six months ago, it was called a 9500 GT. A pretty worthless graphics card.

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MattBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. Errrr... Because top of the line Apple computers are
$1000 worth of hardware with a $50 OS. You are paying $5000 for a pretty little apple logo.
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Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #16
21. Yeah new Macs are so fucking expensive. But they last a long time.
I'm still using my 4 1/2 year old Powerbook G4 right now.
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MattBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. I have had computers for that long or longer as well
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sudopod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 11:21 PM
Response to Original message
13. Intel wants to fold graphics into the CPU
NVidia wants to fold the processor into the graphics card.

I wonder who will win? :p
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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. AMD
:P


They have been talking about a CPU/GPU in the same package since 2005 when they bought ATI.
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MattBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. Intel would be in a better spot to push for it.
I don't really see AMD giving up the enthusiast market that buys a new video card every year.

They will both phase out the front side bus as a way to interface with the video card and have some of the on die space reserved for video but I doubt they will get rid of video cards any time soon.
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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Intel uses QPI now, and AMD has used HyperTransport since '03.
FSB is DEAD.

The GPU that will be in the same package as a GPU will be an integrated part.



In the AMD world, the 790GX chipset on an AM2+ motherboard uses an integrated Radeon 3300 GPU on the northbridge. Not exactly a superstar performer, but it will run most games on low or medium. And it overclocks like a MFer. Ideal for light gaming & office/internet applications.

Move that GPU to the CPU package and you will have the same thing. One heatsink/fan and probable power savings.
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MattBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. The "bus" is still gasping and flopping around
Edited on Thu Mar-12-09 01:01 AM by MattBaggins
I still don't see why I would want that GPU on the CPU unless you can cost effectively bring the graphics worlds ram and pipelines to CPU and motherboard.

Give me that space on the CPU to put the video side of the game engine with at least a full 64 bits of bandwidth to the GPU? Then give me 3D wrap around glasses so I can ignore my kids and never leave Warcraft.
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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. It isn't actually on the CPU die. It is just packaged with the CPU. MCM
Multi Chip Module, a la Intel's Core 2.

And I can see the allure in the business world. Cheap CPU + GPU, and a cheaper mainboard. Add a case/PSU, some ram and a hard drive, and you are done.

A fully functional, current generation system for less than $500.
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MattBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. I agree with you on that
even better for laptops. But bring that price down to less than $200.
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