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babsbunny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 04:00 PM
Original message
Belief and the brain's 'God spot'
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/belief-and-th...

Scientists say they have located the parts of the brain that control religious faith. And the research proves, they contend, that belief in a higher power is an evolutionary asset that helps human survival. Steve Connor reports

Tuesday, 10 March 2009

The search for the God spot has in the past led scientists to many different regions of the brain.


A belief in God is deeply embedded in the human brain, which is programmed for religious experiences, according to a study that analyses why religion is a universal human feature that has encompassed all cultures throughout history.

Scientists searching for the neural "God spot", which is supposed to control religious belief, believe that there is not just one but several areas of the brain that form the biological foundations of religious belief.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
1. Mebbe this explains why people have faith in the markets
Doesn't say which kind of 'god'
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GoesTo11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
2. The existence of that spot is more proof of an intelligent creator
It's like a remote control car with an antenna to receive the signal. A rock doesn't have an antenna to receive no signal.
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stopbush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Leave it to the religious to take scientific research
and lower its implications to the banal and childish.
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. oh for pete's sake....
It EVOLVED in response to selective pressure.
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. The article seems to suggest it's a side effect of the capacity to make moral judgements.
Which in itself is useful for maintaining order in the group and therefore enhances one's odd of survival. Or, at least, did in primitive societies. We have LOTS of traits that were necessary in the distant past but now are hindrances. I maintain that the predisposition to religion is one of those.
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #8
70. oh I agree completely...
...on all counts. I was responding to the DUer who thought a biological link was additional evidence of an intelligent creator.
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. The existence of that spot is more proof man is compelled to create a creator
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 05:00 AM
Response to Reply #5
116. Absolutely!
Whether there is a force beyond us is neither here nor there. We are storytellers and it's evolutionarily helpful. I find this fascinating. I believe in a higher power as I understand it and I've had religious "experiences" that go beyond mere belief. If that is because a bit of tissue in my brain got tickled, so be it. Those experiences have been the bedrock of my life and I don't really care how they came to be, it's more what I've chosen to do with those experiences that makes the woman.

I have no problem with people who are athiest. I do wonder about those who are absolutely sure one way or the other and who will not stand any questioning of their absolutism. Life is too fluid for such absolutism, no matter the ilk.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #5
131. !
Edited on Wed Mar-11-09 10:47 AM by SammyWinstonJack
:-)
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. That's like saying our susceptibility to electric shocks is proof of the existence of Zeus. -nt
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 05:00 AM
Response to Reply #6
117. You understand perfectly!
Hello, fellow traveler.
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #2
17. You've got to be fucking kidding me.
I mean really. Come on now.
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GoesTo11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. And a sense of humor would be evidence of a silly creator
That theory would explain a lot.
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damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #21
47. Hey, I like trickster gods.
So long as they're not too mean.
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
23. No, it's more like an explanation
for how people could continue to be so gullible.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #2
37. lol
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damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #2
43. No proof of God, no proof of no God.
That's the thing about science: it can't tell us about anything that is not natural, not observable or detectable or measurable, or maybe manipulable. If could be that religious belief is the result of natural developments that somehow helped intelligent being survive in the world; or it could be that a supernatural power manipulated evolution to include a 'God spot.' Believe or disbelieve as you will; but don't try to blame it on science.
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GoesTo11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #43
49. What if MRI imaging yielded more accurate pictures
including a little tag that says "inspected by number 7"?
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #2
56. Perhaps it is
a part of the brain that allows one to "see" the connection between one's self and the universe around them, much like our eyes.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #56
91. ...
:hi:
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #2
66. ....
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #2
128. No, it's proof that God is an invention of our own minds.
Malfunctioning temporal lobes are to a large extent responsible to seizures and auditory hallucinations (hearing voices).
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NeedleCast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
183. Please tell me this is sarcasim
please....please?
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
7. I wonder if fluctuations in the Earth's Magnetic Field could have or has had an effect
Edited on Tue Mar-10-09 04:30 PM by Uncle Joe
on the ebb and flow of religious fervor throughout human history?

"This work was followed by a study where scientists tried to stimulate the temporal lobes with a rotating magnetic field produced by a "God helmet". Michael Persinger, from Laurentian University in Ontario, found that he could artificially create the experience of religious feelings the helmet's wearer reports being in the presence of a spirit or having a profound feeling of cosmic bliss."

Another observation, the paragraph below would suggest to me that animals may experience some form of spiritual feeling, especially primates. I also wonder about elephants as well, why would they carry the bones of their dead around for days? These bones no longer resemble the elephants, they used to know, so on some level, I would think elephants must be aware of or sense an alternate existence other than life.

"The study found that several areas of the brain are involved in religious belief, one within the frontal lobes of the cortex which are unique to humans and another in the more evolutionary-ancient regions deeper inside the brain, which humans share with apes and other primates, Professor Grafman said."

Thanks for the thread, babsbunny.




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DearAbby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Either the Magnetic field
or the harmonics of the field, has the effect on all living creatures.
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Yes but I'm looking for a direct historical religious correlation, according to this paragraph,
only 8 out of 10 were affected and the one mentioned notable exception wasn't religious. So I'm hypothesizing that for religious people those times of heavy magnetic field fluctuation would be particularly intense with the result of an up or down swing in religious, fundamentalist or evangelical fervor throughout the world's various societies.

"Dr Persinger said that about eight in every 10 volunteers report quasi-religious feelings when wearing his helmet. However, when Professor Richard Dawkins, an evolutionist and renowned atheist, wore it during the making of a BBC documentary, he famously failed to find God, saying that the helmet only affected his breathing and his limbs."
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. there will be no "direct historical religious correlation" b/c we all have souls, not located in the
brain. Perhaps this spot is the human bodies response to forces beyond it.


As for the magnetic fields, these are influential and observable on various life forms, including humans, even when the human brain doesn't believe it.

Since we are electromagnetic beings, how could it not?
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. "we all have souls, not located in the brain"
Link, please.
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stopbush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #24
30. What is asserted without proof may be dismissed without proof.
That's a Hitchens link that seems to answer the question.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #30
90. What evidence do you have that consciousness is limited to the brain?
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stopbush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #90
94. There's no evidence that it isn't.
Please present your evidence that consciousness exists outside the brain. You have asked me to prove a negative which is impossible. I merely ask you to prove a positive which should be quite simple to do if evidence exists.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #94
99. There's plenty of evidence, based on experience. except someone convinced to ignore it, will deny it
Experience and science and despite the chuckleheaded ahole below this post, evidence based on basice science and anatomy. Let alone other levels of consciousness.
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Hanse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #99
102. Plenty of evidence? Great.
Then you won't have any problem citing any.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #102
104. Already did
"except someone convinced to ignore it, will deny it"
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Hanse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #104
107. Cite it again.
Or cite some more, if there's plenty of it.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #107
109. What part of discussion killer don't you comprehend?
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Hanse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #109
110. The part where you support your claim with evidence.
I'm looking and looking, but I just don't see a link.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #102
112. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
stopbush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #99
127. No, there isn't any evidence. There is hearsay, opinion and wishful thinking.
You call it "experience," but experience and observation meaning nothing if not supported by evidence.

So, produce your evidence. And by that, I mean REAL evidence, scientific evidence.
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Hanse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #90
96. Brain injuries lead to loss of consciousness.
So does a decreased blood flow.

Various pharmaceutical compounds applied to the brain can cause loss of consciousness. Or altering of consciousness.

Reversal of these stimuli restore consciousness.

Did you drop out of 6th grade before you took health class? Because this is all elementary level material.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #96
98. ah, the insults, a real conversation killer
I had a reply and some interest, right up until that BS at the end there. Homey don't play dat.


Anyway, you answered your own challenge with "Or altering of consciousness."

Have fun figuring it out for yourself. Feh.
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Hanse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #98
100. It's not an insult.
Small children have a better grasp of this material than you do.

If you find that insulting, perhaps you should do something about it.

"Anyway, you answered your own challenge with "Or altering of consciousness."

I didn't offer a challenge, goofy.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #100
103. hoist on your own petard
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Hanse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #103
108. Take a look, it's in a book.
reading rainbow
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #90
130. Neuroscience. Read up on it!
Edited on Wed Mar-11-09 10:41 AM by Odin2005
I especially suggest reading The Phantoms in The Brain by Indian neurologist V. S. Ramachandran and his description of a neurological condition caused by stroke or traumatic brain injury called hemispherical neglect where a person is completely unconscious and unaware of one side of his/her body and all the sensory information from that half. They will shave only half of their face and eat food on only one half of the plate because they are completely unaware of the other half.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #24
36. The brain telling itself that it is the be all and end all of consciousness doesn't make it so.
Link, please.
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #36
44. Don't try to put words in my mouth.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #44
52. um................ what?1!
:rofl: that makes absolutely no sense
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #52
57. You made a statement and I asked you to prove it
You responded by arguing with a statement that I hadn't made.

The difference should be clear.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #57
61. I made a statement. Not sure how you got it backwards. It's not all about you.
The difference should be clear


btw copy and paste + "link please" is not "asking" anything. Sorry, I don't speak Twitter.

It comes off as belligerent and so, unfortunately, will my reply in your style.
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. Wow
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kimmerspixelated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #18
26. Exactly!
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #18
33. Yes but if we all have souls, wouldn't the brain be a logical place
for an antenna?

I agree with you these magnetic fields would affect everyone or at least as to the helmet experiment went, 8 out of 10, but assuming as you state and I don't disagree with you, that the Earth's Magnetic Field fluctuations literally affect everyone, wouldn't or couldn't religious people interpret this as being an intense religious experience, resulting in increased religious fervor.

While those people that aren't religious may have the effect of this emotion, feeling especially alive, good or bad as the case may be but not view it in a religious context.

I'm not taking a stance here one way or the other as to whether there is a God or not, either these Magnetic Field Fluctuations are a subtle message from the almighty or they're not. I'm just asking if there has been an effect?
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #33
39. yes. isn't the pituitary considered some sort of connection.......?
"the Earth's Magnetic Field fluctuations literally affect everyone, wouldn't or couldn't religious people interpret this as being an intense religious experience, resulting in increased religious fervor."

Perhaps. A connection with the divine. On some level. In the past, such a helmet to amplify the effect may not have been available or necessary. This experiment may make it much more intense, right? The range of effect may not have been limited to "religious."

"While those people that aren't religious may have the effect of this emotion, feeling especially alive, good or bad as the case may be but not view it in a religious context."

Yes. Solar flares can make people become agitated, seem "crazy," distracted. The news tells us to note the effects on computers and electronics, not ourselves or each other.

:hi:
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DearAbby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #39
48. Wouldnt the pituitary be affected
by the sound waves of the magnetic field? I donno, I keep thinking sound has a great effect on the human brain.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #48
53. esp in a windtunnel in an echo chamber in a willfully ignorant circular firing squad
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Aethertek Donating Member (46 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #53
186. willful ignorance
What an apt description for religious belief. The upside to the article would be the implication that perhaps ignorance can be cured. Come on all you smart biochemists get to work on this, the survival of your species may depend on it. When your done with that get that aerosolized sterilization treatment worked out so the human race will stop breeding like rats.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #48
58. The sound waves of the magnetic field?
Sweet Jesus.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #58
63. He heard that
:evilgrin:
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DearAbby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #63
72. Huh?
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conscious evolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #39
166. Pineal gland
Is what you are thinking of.
It is the place in the brain where DMT is stored.DMT is considered by many to be a spirit molecule that allows access to other states of mind.
Many tantrics,yogas and Tai Chi's release DMT into the rest of the brain to bring about mystical/spiritual/religous Ecstasy states.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #166
181. Pineal, thank you, that's it.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #18
129. "We all have souls, not located in the brain" PROVE IT!!!
Edited on Wed Mar-11-09 10:34 AM by Odin2005
I'll bet you $1000 for real scientific evidence for the existance of an incorporeal "soul".
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #129
182. Here's a clue
Odin2005 (1000+ posts) Wed Mar-11-09 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #77
132. I have "experiences of the ineffable" too. I just don't need a BS term "god" and act like it is ...

...a being that answers my prayers and will give be eternal life if I obey it blindly. Something French philosopher Andre Comte-Sponville talks about in his recent book The Little Book of Atheist Spirituality.

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DearAbby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 02:01 AM
Response to Reply #13
115. Interesting theory..n/t
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. The harmonics of the field?
:shrug:
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. like vibes?
:hi:
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Like baloney.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. You've never heard of electromagnetic storms or solar flares?
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. Sure I have.
You've never heard of pseudoscience?
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. how is Uncle Joe's post 7 you responded to "pseudoscience"?
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. I didn't respond to Uncle Joe's post 7.
Is your solar flare acting up?
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #34
40. So you dispute the existence "the magnetic field" or "the harmonices of the field"?
b/c in a vibrating, electomagnetic universe, you don't budge? :spray:
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #40
45. I don't know what "harmonices of the field" means.
Or "electromagnetic universe" either.

I don't know what frequency the earth's magnetic field vibrates at, but if you'd like to tell me I'm all ears.

What I do know is that it the earth's magnetic field, "harmonices" (sic), the "electromagnetic universe," and solar flares have nothing to do with the research in the OP.

It is, in essence, pseudoscience from scientifically illiterate rubes.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #45
51. and you don't recall your own post #15? quit playing bs games.
"What I do know is that it the earth's magnetic field, "harmonices" (sic), the "electromagnetic universe," and solar flares have nothing to do with the research in the OP."

And how do you know that?

If you're unaware of science, how do you presume to call others "illiterate"?
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #51
59. ...

"And how do you know that?"

Because I actually am literate in scientific matters.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #59
64. yet claim ignorance of basic concepts. Strange.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. I don't claim ignorance of basic concepts.
I claim to be unaware of ill-defined misspelled pseudoscience woo woo logorrhea.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #65
75. Perhaps you will find another thread of interest and let others discuss what you dismiss
maybe there better spelers over their, too
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #75
80. Nah, this is GD.
If people want to post loony scientifically illiterate crap, it's not going to go unchallenged.

There are places like the 9-11, health, and astrology groups if people don't like it.

But I'm guessing you're already aware of them.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #80
84. "Unchallenged"? That doesn't mean flamed and locked by the bully club
What would be more "challenging" is a discussion with those who want to back up their own closemindedness with info :thumbsup:
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #84
135. No.
It means if somebody makes an absurd claim, as you've done, they need to back it up with citations.

As you haven't.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #135
140. Yet
some are able to contribute to DU without bullying and belligerence

As you haven't
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #140
144. You can't call people assholes then complain about bullying.
You're the most belligerent person in this thread, Omega.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #144
148. you can't trample on others and then pretend to deserve more credibility to discuss
and of course bullies consider anyone who calls their BS, "belligerent"

:think:
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #148
149. You're being called on your BS.
:shrug:
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #149
152. the attack mode just won't work. maybe readjust the attitude.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #152
153. It seems to be working pretty well.
You've embarassed yourself quite thoroughly.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #153
158. It seems to be working pretty well.
You've discredited yourself quite thoroughly. And killed discussion.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #158
159. Not so. So far I've won the discussion.
You could easily win the discussion yourself by posting evidence for your claims. Boy, wouldn't that make me look bad?

But you're not going to. Because there isn't any evidence.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #159
161. You win.
Edited on Wed Mar-11-09 02:20 PM by omega minimo
:spray:



Apparently you think a "discussion" is something you "win."

So attack mode works for you, eh? :rofl: Sad :cry:


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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #161
165. Yes, I know.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #165
172. OIC
Arrive in jackboots

Stomp "opponents"

Insist on your demands being met

Hold discussion hostage

Discredit yourself by disrespecting DUers

Misrepresent your behavior

Pretend innocence and mere "asking questions"

Call that "discussion"

You "win"





As before "what part of discussion killer don't you understand?"


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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #172
175. No.
1. Listen to other person.

2. Ask other person questions based on their comments.

3. Smile as other person gets irrationally upset. Calls other people names. Can't support their own arguments. Demonstrates a poor understanding of the natural world.

4. Win conversation.

"As before "what part of discussion killer don't you understand?""

I understand that you're "holding this discussion hostage" because you're refusing to provide evidence for your claims. If you admit there isn't any evidence, you can always retract your claims and move forward.



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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #175
177. !
:rofl:
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Smith_3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 05:19 AM
Response to Reply #31
119. Because of an improper use of the word "harmonics".
A field is a superposition of its harmonics. The post above implied that a field and its harmonics are two seperate things. That isn't the case. It was obviously an attempt at appearing smart without having real knowledge of the subject.

For further information look here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic_analysis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourier_series

In the case of electrodynamics, also interesting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spherical_harmonics
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #119
139. I never used the word harmonics in my post.
Edited on Wed Mar-11-09 12:49 PM by Uncle Joe
Here's another possibility about trying to "appear smart", maybe I asked an honest hypothetical question based on what knowledge I have and my interpretation as to the experiment in the O.P.

Maybe you're feeling insecure, but I wouldn't presume to know, but one thing I can presume, that is in hoping that you're not a teacher.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #139
145. My mistakes, Uncle Joe. Sorry
Edited on Wed Mar-11-09 01:38 PM by omega minimo
In response to a reply in the subthread off your post, I referred to your post and then misspelled "harmonics", which gave the respondent something to be petty about and pretend not to understand.

Now this other one is providing the godspotless with LINKS PLEASE, to wikipedia, apparently the last word in scientific research and credibility.

Again, the willful ignorance serves that poster's purposes, b/c someone's reply "implied" somthing.


DearAbby (1000+ posts)
Tue Mar-10-09 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #7
9.Either the Magnetic field

or the harmonics of the field, has the effect on all living creatures.


Smith_3 (1000+ posts)
Wed Mar-11-09 03:19 AM
Response to Reply #31
120.Because of an improper use of the word "harmonics".

A field is a superposition of its harmonics. The post above implied that a field and its harmonics are two seperate things. That isn't the case. It was obviously an attempt at appearing smart without having real knowledge of the subject.
-------------------------------------------


To discredit the previous post, which "implied that a field and its harmonics are two seperate things," s/he explains that one is a subset of the other, interrelated yet distinct, in at least verbal terms for their "superpositional" relationship.

So, rather than a discussion of the topic or the field and harmonics that are not two separate things, they would rather tussle over petty points and semantices, (oops, misspelled that too).

Rather than discover points of understanding and go from there.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #139
146. No, Dear Abby did.
Omega minimo was confused in thinking I replied to you as opposed to Dear Abby.

Your comments involving pseudoscience were the ones involving the magnetic field influencing people, and elephants sensing an afterlife.
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #146
157. Is it not science to question?
Edited on Wed Mar-11-09 02:03 PM by Uncle Joe
Doesn't all science begin with a hypothesis?

Why do you think elephants carry the bones of other deceased elephants around for days? I've seen this behavior on nature programs.

If this so called "God Helmet" using electro magnetic fields to stimulate the brain has produced an apparent tangible result, doesn't it seem logical, the Earth's Magnetic Field could be doing the same, on a more subtle level and yet macro scale?
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #157
163. ...
"Why do you think elephants carry the bones of other deceased elephants around for days?"

I don't know. Because they're sad?

"If this so called "God Helmet" using electro magnetic fields to stimulate the brain has produced an apparent tangible result, doesn't it seem logical, the Earth's Magnetic Field could be doing the same, on a more subtle level and yet macro scale?"

No. The earth's magnetic field is weak and uniform on the scale of the human brain. The earth's magnetic field has no effect on the human brain, which can be tested using a person exposed to the earth's magnetic field, and a person who's protected from the earth's magnetic field via a Faraday cage. Which, ironically, could be a tinfoil hat.

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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #163
170. So if an elephant is sad,
they must have memories of the past, but in carrying bones which in no way resemble deceased elephants, isn't it logical to assume elephants associate a symbol; in this case bones of their deceased friends and family with life?

Furthermore if a symbol and life can be associated, isn't that abstract thinking?

My understanding of the word abstract is thinking apart from perception.

Regarding the Earth's Magnetic Field's effect, doesn't it fluctuate and if it did, does this change those Webers and Maxwells, I read about in my Dictionary?

I haven't been to school in over thirty years, so please bare with my ignorance on any Physics level.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #170
178. It indicates an elephant may be able to have some degree of abstract thought.
That abstract thought being "these bones belong to my mother who I remember dying here last rainy season." That's got nothing to do with the after life, sixth senses, or electromagnetism.

"Regarding the Earth's Magnetic Field's effect, doesn't it fluctuate"

The earth's magnetic field does fluctuate over a geologic time scale. It's certainly not a harmonic oscillator on the scale of human activity.

"if it did, does this change those Webers and Maxwells, I read about in my Dictionary?"

No, due to the aforementioned time scale, the magnetic flux of the earth's magnetic field is essentially a constant with regard to the affairs of the human brain.

The monitor you're sitting in front of has a far more impact on magnetic flux when you switch it on and off.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #178
184. see
you are capable of discussion :applause: good job
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #184
188. Yes, I know.
The reason the conversation between you and me has stalled is because of failures on your part.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #188
191. .
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #191
193. And you continue to illustrate my point.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #193
194. the point is
Edited on Wed Mar-11-09 03:36 PM by omega minimo
you are completely oblivious to your own behavior and don't take responsibility for it.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #194
196. No, I'm completely aware of my behaviour.
And I stand by my claim that you're full of baloney.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #196
198. if
that's how you enter "discussion," you are responsible.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #178
189. I only used the elephant behavior example as a possible furtherance to
evidence suggested in this paragraph of the O.P. article in looking at the basis of spiritual belief or faith as a hardwired evolutionary trait.

"The study found that several areas of the brain are involved in religious belief, one within the frontal lobes of the cortex which are unique to humans and another in the more evolutionary-ancient regions deeper inside the brain, which humans share with apes and other primates, Professor Grafman said."

Throughout history religion has risen and fallen in popularity and passion and I thought maybe there was an electro magnetic connection.

Thanks for your input.

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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #157
168. .
yes. there are larger forces at work here. including solar flare influence on Earth's magnetic field.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #168
169. Solar flares don't influence the human brain.
:shrug:
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #169
176. do you have any evidence of that? Links. please? TY
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #176
179. Why should I provide evidence and links if you won't?
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #179
180. You can't
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #180
187. Yes, I can.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #187
192. could you point out the reference there to solar flares effects on humans?
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #192
195. No.
Solar flares don't affect humans.

If you want a reference for that, read the article I posted.

Small magnets have no physiological effect on human tissues or humans writ large.

And small magnets have a magnetic field quite a bit stronger than that from solar flares as felt on earth.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #195
197. no
no proof of that



"Solar flares don't affect humans."


"And small magnets have a magnetic field quite a bit stronger than that from solar flares as felt on earth."


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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #197
205. Actually, yeah it is.
"'Solar flares don't affect humans.'"

Are you not arguing that solar flares have a magnetic influence on human life? If by some other mechanism than magnetism, please address it and I'll debunk it too.

"'And small magnets have a magnetic field quite a bit stronger than that from solar flares as felt on earth.'"

Omega, the magnetic field of a small refridgerator magnet is significantly stronger than a solar flare, as felt by the person holding the magnet.

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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #205
206. that's absurd
is there any study on the effects of solar flares on humans, at those times we are warned that all our telecommunications and computers are impaccted?

The comparison to a refrigerator magnet is just silly.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #206
208. Why is a comparison to a refrigerator magnet silly?
Small magnets have a much stronger magnetic field.

The silly comparison, Omega, is the comparison of human beings to the power grid.

If human beings pulled thousands of volts over thousands of miles, then one would expect humans to be influence by very weak but very wide magnetic field fluctuations. But that ain't the case.

"is there any study on the effects of solar flares on humans"

There are studies on the effects of magnetic fields on humans, and that's what I linked to in the article.

Are you saying there's something special about the magnetic field that comes from solar flares, versus any other sort of magnet?
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #139
147. someone truly versed in and interested in science
would not automatically discount everything that doesn't already fit in their closed rat trap of conventional thinking.

It doesn't make them appear smart, it makes them appear unaware of the full range of science and evidence worth discussing.

You're right, I hope this indoctrination and bully behavior is not being inflicted on yet another generation.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #147
151. If the evidence is worth discussing...
why are you refusing to discuss it?
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #151
154. .
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #154
155. Asking you a hard question is a form of attack?
Asking you questions is a form of bullying?

But Omega, anyone truly verse in and interested in science is able to accept questions. Particularly ones which challenge their preconcieved beliefs.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #155
160. and then the pretending
that the belligerent approach is "asking you questions." :rofl:


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Smith_3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 05:24 AM
Response to Reply #28
120. His post was indeed pseudoscience.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #120
201. ,
Edited on Wed Mar-11-09 09:00 PM by omega minimo
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #120
202. "It was obviously an attempt at appearing smart without having real knowledge of the subject."
The post:
DearAbby (1000+ posts)
Tue Mar-10-09 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Either the Magnetic field

or the harmonics of the field, has the effect on all living creatures.


Your reply:
Smith_3 (1000+ posts)
Wed Mar-11-09 03:19 AM
Response to Reply #31
120. Because of an improper use of the word "harmonics".

A field is a superposition of its harmonics. The post above implied that a field and its harmonics are two separate things. That isn't the case. It was obviously an attempt at appearing smart without having real knowledge of the subject.
-------------------------------------------

OBVIOUSLY :eyes:

Your own post "implies" that they are two separate things, at least semantically, each aspects of the other, in a "superpositional" relationship and not actually separate.

:hi: It would be very interesting to learn from your knowledge, or hear what context Dear Abby was referring to, rather than have the post/er shot down with petty semantics topped off with an insult.

If science is treated by some as intellectual blood sport, no wonder some sciencebound types shoot down anything that might challenge their assumptions, ego and insistence on topdogging anyone they can.

The wiki posts, esp. the second one, didn't provide any definitive info. Is wikipedia the be all and end all of scientific certitude these days?

The next time someone says LINK PLEASE, we should just passive/aggressively post some arbitrary link to wiki and if someone can't put an answer together themselves from a page of wikiness, they're an idiot?

A few searches prove that there is a wide range of discussion in different contexts regarding magnetic fields in relation to resonance -- different WORDS (which you used yourself, implying they are different) for different aspects even if they're not two separate THINGS.

I'll bet you that Dear Abby knows that.

Sorry the phrasing didn't meet the standards of the wiki wielding brainiacs, too busy being "right" to share their insights with DU.

Or maybe insights come from the godspot that so many deem bunk
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #202
207. ...
"If science is treated by some as intellectual blood sport, no wonder some sciencebound types shoot down anything that might challenge their assumptions, ego and insistence on topdogging anyone they can."

Uh, well, yeah. Science is a place where ideas are constantly being forwarded, questioned, tested, and the better ideas are victorious. While the patently bad ideas are left bruised, battered, and end up on a long bus ride home.

Ego has nothing to do with it.

"The wiki posts, esp. the second one, didn't provide any definitive info. Is wikipedia the be all and end all of scientific certitude these days?"

Wikipedia is certainly an adequate source for the context of this discussion. If you've got an issue with the scientific merit of the articles on wiki, I'd love to hear it. The second article on Fourier series is clearly a logical continuation of first article. Although I'm sure a person would be confused if they didn't understand all the big words. But then again, if people are going to talk about harmonics, there's nothing in the articles that's too complicated.

Either way, links to wikipedia are certainly better than what you provided: nothing.

"The next time someone says LINK PLEASE, we should just passive/aggressively post some arbitrary link to wiki and if someone can't put an answer together themselves from a page of wikiness, they're an idiot?"

If somebody is curious about what you have to say and requests more information, then the correct, polite, and intelligent thing to do is to post a link. Not an arbitrary link, but one that has to do with the topic at hand.

"Sorry the phrasing didn't meet the standards of the wiki wielding brainiacs, too busy being "right" to share their insights with DU."

When you discuss science, Omega, terminology is important. "Energy," for example, might mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people, particularly the scientifically illiterate. But it has a specific meaning in science.

"Or maybe insights come from the godspot that so many deem bunk"

It's not the insights from the actual work in the OP that's deemed bunk, but the silly interpretations of other peoples work from people who don't know what they're talking about.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #207
209. again the pretending
Truly hilarious.

"Uh, well, yeah. Science is a place where ideas are constantly being forwarded, questioned, tested, and the better ideas are victorious. While the patently bad ideas are left bruised, battered, and end up on a long bus ride home."

So what happens here is self appointed censors skip the part where "where ideas are constantly being forwarded, questioned, tested" and cut right to the "victorious" bruising, battering and calling that "winning."

:eyes:

"If somebody is curious about what you have to say and requests more information, then the correct, polite, and intelligent thing to do is to post a link."

:rofl:

The "the correct, polite, and intelligent thing to do" would be to start by actually expressing more effectively than a one word swipe followed by "LINK PLEASE." The honest and intelligent thing to do would be to not rewrite the record and attempt to claim that that monosyllabic demand was "polite" and presented as being "curious about what you have to say and requests more information." :rofl:

That's why the bullying kills discussion.

The pretending later that it was presented in a way that invited discussion is BALONEY.


"If you've got an issue with the scientific merit of the articles on wiki, I'd love to hear it."

If you've got a point to make based on the scientific articles and can be bothered to post it, rather than link a wiki page, I'd love to see it.
:hi:


"... a person would be confused if they didn't understand all the big words."
"...might mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people, particularly the scientifically illiterate."
"...the silly interpretations of other peoples work from people who don't know what they're talking about."

"Ego has nothing to do with it."

Ego must have something to do with it or your language for being "victorious" would not reflect physical battery. The pretense is of being "correct, polite, and intelligent" and the reality continues the "insistence on topdogging anyone they can."

Your insults to everyone who doesn't meet your criteria for discussion -- whom you can't just leave alone and allow to discuss, or contribute informatively and respectfully -- is proof of that.

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Control-Z Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #7
27. a "God helmet"
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

sorry, I just can't help myself!

Can't. Stop. Laughing.

:rofl:
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GoesTo11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #27
35. $59.96 at Walmart.
I got two for the kids last Solstice.

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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #27
74. Sounds like something Vince would sell on TV


:rofl:
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yodermon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #74
78. It's a sham.
Wow!
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msongs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
10. the same brain spot that controls fleecing people out of their money nt
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #10
71. will those holy bags of water pushed on Robertson's channel
revive the god spot in heathens? Enquiring minds, dontcha know.... :evilgrin:
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #10
133. .
:spray:
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RiverStone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
11. Are you talking about the G spot or God spot?
Don't know much about religion, but... :)
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guitar man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Beat me to it
I was going to say, I found the god spot and it isn't in the brain. She was certainly going "oh god ohh god oh god!" when I I found it. :evilgrin:
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RiverStone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Now that's enlightenment!
Edited on Tue Mar-10-09 04:55 PM by RiverStone
:hi:
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guitar man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. !!
:hi:

:rofl:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #11
60. The stegosaurus
is said to have had two brains. One was in the head, of course. The other was apparently located in the hip region, and may have had control over a large part of its nervous system.

I'm at a loss to explain how your post reminded me of this.
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #60
73. unless I'm mistaken-- and that's been known to happen occasionally...
Edited on Tue Mar-10-09 07:35 PM by mike_c
...that second "brain" is more a metaphor than anything else. The vertebrate "brain" has a particular structure that is not repeated anywhere else in the nervous system. I believe the organ you're referring to is the caudal ganglion, which has been surmised to oversee a number of neurological events in the posteriors of large, slow witted dinosaurs and members of congress. Seriously though-- the caudal ganglion is not an accessory "brain." That's just a metaphor for its extra utility in some animals (including many modern insects, BTW).
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #73
82. Now I have
the perfect answer when my wife suggests that I think with the big head.
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #82
89. our work here is done, Tonto....
Edited on Tue Mar-10-09 09:12 PM by mike_c
:rofl:

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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
14. Back when we were all in scattered tribes in the wilderness . .
that spot must have been necessary for the survival of the species.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #14
42. And Now That We're All Perfectly Capable of Behaving In a Civilized Manner, We No Longer Need It?
That is, everyone except those kids who beat up the homeless.

And stock traders, them too.

And housing investors who buy up affordable homes, put in granite counter-tops and jack the price up $100k.

Need I go on?

It's amazing that 85% of our country *claims* to believe in a god, and yet pulls all that shit.
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #42
83. IMHO
Humans being the thick things that they are... the MESSAGE has been lost in the worship of the MAN. All religious traditions share some basic fundamental facts regarding how people ought to treat each other. All of them manage to crust up those essentials seeds with dogma and new rules that make sense to their host societies at the time... which get further codified in subsequent generations.. until they are unable to transmit that which is most essential.

The gene will only function as required if people manage to transcend the traditions.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #83
101. good point.
:applause:
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MedleyMisty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
29. I think it's wired differently in my brain
I can't think of anyone on either side of my family who's religious, so I guess I didn't get the God genes.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #29
134. I didn't get it either, thank Gawd!
:evilgrin:
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KG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
32. that article is a steaming pile of b.s.
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Vickers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
38. "injected radioactive isotope into Buddhists at the point at which they achieved meditative nirvana"

Now THERE'S a visual...
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GoesTo11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 05:32 PM
Response to Original message
41. I read that dyslexic brains are wired a little differently
They have a Dog, Spot.
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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 07:06 PM
Original message
LOL. I like that. And they name him Spot. Love it. nt
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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #41
67. LOL. I like that. And they name him Spot. Love it. nt
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The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
46. So people are born that way eh
Hmmmm
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GoesTo11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #46
50. Zing!
Edited on Tue Mar-10-09 06:37 PM by GoesTo11
That is not just a cute observation, but, in the right hands, one that may prove very useful in societal debate about other ways people are born.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #46
54. people evolved that way
:hi:
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
55. Biological predestination...
Biological predestination... :evilgrin:
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
68. Puh-raze jeebiz
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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
69. So maybe those of us that have enough trauma in their lives
and "lose faith" are actually experiencing something that works like depression where your neurons aren't firing properly. I haven't felt "faith" in a long time. There are other things I've felt that are more supernatural, but not a sensation of God Be With Me.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #69
85.  Maybe that's part of the continuum of experience that doesn't fit in the God/No God boxes
Edited on Tue Mar-10-09 08:49 PM by omega minimo
"There are other things I've felt that are more supernatural, but not a sensation of God Be With Me."
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
76. (facepalm)
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 07:51 PM
Response to Original message
77. "religious faith" or "experience of the ineffable" ?
To me "religious faith" means belief in a particular set of symbols that codify what might be more objectively an "experience of the ineffable". The former is a symbolization or representation of the latter. The latter might be a subjective experience, a state of consciousness that has (or seems to have) "profound" or "sublime" or "transcendent" implications. But the point is that it is "experiential," not something I merely "think" but something that fills my whole being.

So -- what is being talked about here, religious experience or the brain's tendency to codify experience symbolically and thus create religious symbols systems?
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #77
86. it could be
that's what's being described is the actual experience, prior to the definitions, demarcations and flamewars.

Thanks for posting. This resembles discussion. :bounce: There is a whole range of experience............... possibly connected to this research and we may -- as human beings -- all have it in common.


"...an "experience of the ineffable"..... might be a subjective experience, a state of consciousness that has (or seems to have) "profound" or "sublime" or "transcendent" implications.


The arguments are over the terms.

thanks for the post.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #77
132. I have "experiences of the ineffable" too. I just don't need a BS term "god" and act like it is ...
...a being that answers my prayers and will give be eternal life if I obey it blindly. Something French philosopher Andre Comte-Sponville talks about in his recent book The Little Book of Atheist Spirituality.
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #132
136. Yes, that's why I'm asking the question.
From the way this article is written, I can't tell whether what is being discussed is areas within the brain which are responsible for this experienced "sensation" (not sure what to call it) or whether they're talking about the religious symbolism that gets tacked onto that more or less "after the fact" (but not always).

Way back in the 1970s a structuralist showed, from that perspective, there was no difference between "ufo sightings" and "spiritual visitations". The book "Brain, Symbol and Experience," delves into this question, too.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #136
164. great posts. thank you for stating it so well
:hi:
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conscious evolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #136
171. There is another book
that says the same thing.
DMT:The Spirit Molecule by DR.Rick Strassman,MD.
He did a clinical study on DMT and one of the observations made is that UFO sightings/alien abduction were vary similar to what his study participants/subjects were reporting.

Tin foil hat time:I know a few people who think that the goverment flouridates water because it causes calcification of the pineal gland which prevents DMT releases.
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-13-09 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #171
210. DMT and I are old friends.
Since 1967.

And, no, I don't drink fluoridated water.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #132
162. Absolutely. That was Beam's point.
:toast:
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Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
79. Very interesting. I would point out one thing, however.
The article says, "...and the research proves, they contend, that belief in a higher power is an evolutionary asset that helps human survival".

Just because something improved the chances of survival at one time does not mean it still does so. I would say religion may be one of those things that was a net benefit when we lived in huts, but is now a net negative.
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IrishBuckeye Donating Member (336 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #79
81. The God Part of the Brain talks about this, published in 1996 (link inside)
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #81
88. Welcome to DU. Sound familiar?
"aside from the fact that his anti-faith proclamations themselves demonstrate a certain kind of blind faith, he gives no credence to others' views, nor is he compassionate to the helpful role that spirituality plays in peoples' lives."
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #79
87. They might have used the word "connection" rather than "belief"
please look at the posts right before yours that touch on the experience. Perhaps there is something to the brain research being filtered through limited expectations/vocabularies of the researchers/writers.

There is extensive research on dreams used by (most) indigenous cultures for survival, including as a "net benefit when we lived in huts."
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Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #87
92. My problem is with the present tense word "helps", rather than "helped".
You might be able to build an argument that religious belief was beneficial to human survival at a certain point in our history, but I don't think it follows that the same is true today. Quite the opposite, in my humble opinion.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #92
106. I'm not sure the brain activity, if it occurs
is about "religion," nor is it obsolete.
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wuvuj Donating Member (874 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #79
173. In the worlds current situation....
...religion is like a noose around our necks? From the NEW CRUSADES to Israel's insanity...to the Pope and the right to lifers still wanting to overpopulate?

The god spot might also be a disease process? I say virally caused and an inflammatory process.

I've had the disease before.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #173
190. similar to
blind belief in "science" and the "rational" causing closed minds and hostile reactions to anything that pushes the envelope of the Already Known.

As different from true science as religion is from spirituality, as zealotry is from rationale.
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wuvuj Donating Member (874 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-13-09 07:41 AM
Response to Reply #190
213. Good point...
It's the same disease.....all "belief and faith" and no real thinking involved? It's REAL EASY when your god...whomever it might be...is always right and is all powerful.
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jmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
93. The only part of this article that compared different beliefs showed
people of different faiths and atheists used the same parts of the brain when dealing with moral issues-

They found that people of different religious persuasions and beliefs, as well as atheists, all tended to use the same electrical circuits in the brain to solve a perceived moral conundrum and the same circuits were used when religiously-inclined people dealt with issues related to God.

Ok maybe these studies show what part of the brain deals with morality but they're trying way to hard to spin this.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #93
97. ,
"aside from the fact that his anti-faith proclamations themselves demonstrate a certain kind of blind faith, he gives no credence to others' views, nor is he compassionate to the helpful role that spirituality plays in peoples' lives."

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jmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #97
122. I would've much rather read an opinion piece full of quotes like that
or a more objective article analyzing scientific findings but this tries to do both and fails.

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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #122
141. ok
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LiberalPersona Donating Member (679 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 12:36 AM
Response to Original message
95. Religion = survival trait
I fail to see a connection there, in fact it looks like quite the opposite to me, looking at history.
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NoodleyAppendage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 12:53 AM
Response to Original message
105. Time to open clinics for "God spot"ectomies. Remove that offending area! Solve society's problems!
J
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #105
111. wow, what did they do to you!
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NoodleyAppendage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #111
124. Hmm...let's see. Denying gays marriage rights, subjugating women, fighting wars, etc.
Watch Religulous and get back to me.
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #124
126. If you see it that way, it's really fear/anger that is the problem.
We should get rid of that too.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #124
150. IMHO
the OP is about a range of experience, somehow localized in the brain (or not) related to a sense of interconnectedness beyond the human body.

It would be an interesting topic for discussion.

The writers and researchers apparently are calling that "religious."

There may be more to the story and the range experience than specific behavior that you associated with "religious"?

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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 05:02 AM
Response to Reply #105
118. No thanks
I would much rather continue to be touched by his or her noodley appendage.
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #105
123. Yep. Then once they find the gay gene we can set up gay clinics to cure that ill as well!
Homogenous society FTW!
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NoodleyAppendage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #123
125. You don't need religion to be a heterogeneous populace. Cultural differences exist beyond religion.
Straw man, sorry.

J
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 01:21 AM
Response to Original message
113. Correct
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 01:40 AM
Response to Reply #113
114. .
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 06:06 AM
Response to Original message
121. The fact that different nations vary widely in the level of belief of their populations..
Makes it fairly clear that this so called "God Spot" is really just the portion of the brain which we use to deal with moral questions.

Religious belief varies widely, from well under twenty percent in Iceland to over ninety percent in certain Middle Eastern nations.

Since humans are remarkably similar genetically, it therefore seems evident to me that belief or lack of such in the supernatural is largely determined by culture.

Also, the fact that religious belief has declined by eleven percent in the last eighteen years in the USA makes it clear that culture has far more to do with religiosity than does genetics, the genetics of the US has certainly not changed eleven percent in the last eighteen years.

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Sequoia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
137. Who is that person in your little photo?
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backtoblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
138. interesting enough
I am a mortician and when a body is cremated, there is a part of the brain that does not burn - believed to be the brain stem. There are theories as to why it stays, but it is somewhat of a mystery.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #138
156. wow. who knew? what happens to it?
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backtoblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #156
200. because some people might be sensitive
I won't go into details, but it goes wherever the person running the crematory decides to put it. Usually ground in with bones.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #138
167. The brain stem burns just like the rest of the brain.
No mystery.
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backtoblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #167
199. maybe so, but
My professors in college are responsible for my education and that is what is taught. Whether it IS a part of the brain or another part of the body is only theoretical, but the part that stays behind is NOT bone. It is spongy and about the size of a plum.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #199
203. Spongy even after immolation?
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backtoblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #203
204. Well
hard as bone- no , soft as sponge - no. It just has a softer texture than that of bone, so you can tell that it is composed of different tissue
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conscious evolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #138
174. Is it shaped like a pine cone?
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dkofos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
142. The god spot is really a dead spot in the brain caused from excessive prayer.
I prefer to study the other G spot.
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dcindian Donating Member (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
143. The eternal sunshine of the spotless mind.
has a whole new meaning now.....
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bethdoc Donating Member (16 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
185. James Randi Education Foundation
If anyone is interested in scientific data collected to prove or disprove all kinds of supernatural stuff: http://www.randi.org/site /

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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-13-09 01:45 AM
Response to Reply #185
211. Oh, god, puLEEze -- not THAT cia front org
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-13-09 01:58 AM
Response to Reply #211
212. they don't want any competition
in all things spooky.



The lead story on the site right now tries to make an issue out of artichoke and dandelion having health benefits. :yoiks: that's just KOOKOO!!!11!!

How could regular old plants, like the ones used medicianally in different cultures right out of the GROUND for millennia compete with patented, privatized at public expense PHARMACEUTICALS derived/synthesized from plants right out of the ground?

KOO KOO WACK A DOODLE. :freak: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!!!!!!!!!!!
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-13-09 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #212
214. As far as I'm concerned, they are the nerd version of freeper town. n/t
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