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Bravo President Lula - the medical profession was more right than the Church

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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 07:17 PM
Original message
Bravo President Lula - the medical profession was more right than the Church
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7929712.stm
<snip>
The Brazilian president has criticised a Catholic archbishop for excommunicating several people who helped a young girl have an abortion.

The nine-year-old child underwent the abortion of twins she conceived after alleged abuse by her stepfather.

President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva, himself a Catholic, said he regretted what he described as the cleric's deeply conservative attitude.

But his actions were criticised by President Lula, who said: "As a Christian and a Catholic I deeply regret that a bishop of the Catholic Church has such a conservative attitude.

"The doctors did what had to be done: save the life of a girl nine years old.

"In this case, the medical profession was more right than the Church," AFP news agency quoted him as saying.
-------------------------
Now ask the archbishop how the fugg he came up with any god's laws.
I hope doctors ignore the archbishop when he comes seeking medical attention. I would tell him his god has decided it's time for him to die.
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Idealism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
1. Can you imagine an American president ever saying that?
"In this case, the medical profession was more right than the Church."

I am very proud of Lula for this type of stand.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. They'll probably excommunicate him as well
He's right - the catholic church is not above the law or medical ethics.
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Idealism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Being right isn't always the popular choice n/t
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sufrommich Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #1
16. Yes, I can imagine Obama saying it. nt
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
2. happy to k&r.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 07:29 PM
Response to Original message
3. Lula is going to be very important in the next four years.
K&R
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LakeSamish706 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
4. I know that this is changing the subject a tad... But I sure hope that this stepfather....
rots in a jail cell for life... This is despicable at best and I know that it happens more often than is reported.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. He has been arrested and the report I heard said
he's likely to to be jailed for 15 years. Bet the archbishop visits him in prison. :puke:
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Sinistrous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
8. Killing the messenger...
The archbishop was only stating what is explicit in Canon Law (see Canon 1398).

In this case, the Church is grotesquely in error, but the archbishop had no choice.
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. The archbishop could have kept his mouth shut
Head over to Catholic.com the people defending this asshole are sickening. As far as I'm concerned, he's no better than the man who raped the 9 year old.

I told my mother that this is the last straw for me. I don't know how I'm even going to bring myself to walk into a Catholic Church for a family wedding or funeral after this.
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Sinistrous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Keeping his mouth shut would not have made any difference.
The excommunication was automatic.

This is merely a legal nit. I am only saying that the archbishop should not be the object of our opprobrium, but the Church itself.
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MattBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. Just doing his job BS defense?
As a Cardinal; he is high enough up in the Church to be personally criticized.
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knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. The Church ignores canon laws all the time.
I know that we still have canon laws in the Orthodox Church that say women can't wear pants, have to wear headcoverings, and don't allow any piercings of any kind. It's not like our bishops enforce those. Granted, that one's bigger and more important, but where's the mercy? Abortion was allowed under Jewish law in Jesus's day, and that's why the Church never was entirely against it until the RCC passed that law in, what, the late 1800s?
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Sinistrous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Google "latae sententiae" n/t
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knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. Huh. Makes me glad I'm Orthodox.
We're not quite that weird or legalistic most of the time.
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Sinistrous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #18
26. From your comments, I gather that the Orthodox take
a more realistic and humane approach to human dilemmas than the RCs.
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #10
23. Around 1868 I think
It was also around that time that abortion became illegal in the U.S. But, the first anti-abortion laws were originally passed because the procedures available at the time were extremely dangerous (and no antibiotics, of course) that the laws were intended to protect women from near certain death. At that time, as dangerous as childbirth was then, it was safer than abortion.

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knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. That's a very good point.
It's also why most of the early feminists were against abortion. To them, it was a hugely dangerous procedure often forced on the woman that too often resulted in her death. Big difference between then and now.
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roody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. He had a choice. Father Roy Bouegious was excommunicated for
refusing to recant his support of women priests. But then Roy is a Christian.
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Sinistrous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Sorry.
Apples vs. Oranges. Different rules apply.
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roody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. The question is "Is one going to make their
life count for something? Or merely live and die?"
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-09-09 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #17
27. You don't get to be an archbishop unless you know how to play the game
this guy isn't interested in what's right or wrong - he's concerned about his career. If he's young enough, he's probabably thinking he can get a red hat out of this deal and that gives him a shot at the papacy.
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MattBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. When they excommunicate
right wingers that vote for war or sentence people to death; I will entertain your "they have to do this" silly argument. Until that time I will go by they can apply Vatican rules as they wish or ignore them as they wish.
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roody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. "They have to do this"? You are not quoting me.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
13. K&R for Lula.
South America is being reborn.
The reforms sweeping across South/Central America is the BIGGEST story NOT reported in the MSM.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
22. Kick. I like Lula more every day. Good for him!
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 08:06 PM
Response to Original message
24. Well, duh. Science is always more right than any church.
For one thing, science has actual facts on its side.

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