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Mike 03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 05:07 PM
Original message
Eastwood's CHANGELING and its depiction of treatment of women
Edited on Sat Mar-07-09 05:08 PM by Mike 03
I watched CHANGELING today and it brought tears to my eyes. It was the most depressing, upsetting and nerve wracking film I think I've seen since THE HOURS--to the degree that I would have been embarrassed to be watching it with an audience.

In the film a perfectly sane woman is institutionalized against her will and made to look insane and foolish by a phalanx of psychiatrists, psychologists, various authority figures, police officers, etc. She is humiliated at every turn.

It just made me reflect on how, yet again, we owe so much to another segment of our population that was undermined, deprived, marginalized for a very long time here in our country. It's so shocking to those of us born after, say (what? The 60s?), to discover that women were treated this way in our country that it begs incredulity.

I just got so caught up in this character's struggle and it tore my heart open as much as any work of art can. So when we think of those people we have harmed through ignorance--just as we are doing with the GLBT community now--we have to remember our mistreatment of women for so long.

Anyone who has not seen CHANGELING I must recommend it. It is a remarkable, hypnotic, mesmerizing and horrifying work of art.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
1. Women are the subject of ridicule and stereotypes. They're routinely trivialized and marginalized.
Edited on Sat Mar-07-09 05:59 PM by Captain Hilts
I went to the movies two days ago - The International - and before the movie there were several previews. In only one did a woman have a significant role - Julia Roberts. The rest were all men. People just aren't interested in what women have to say and they don't want women guiding the conversation.

We don't trust a woman to host a game show. Or a talk show other than one shown in the afternoon. Did the world really ask for Jimmy Falon to host a late night show?

Only FOURTEEN percent of the op eds in the Washington Post are written by women.

Something like 75% of all Disney characters are seen as male.


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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. 14% is ridiculous! Argh!
Edited on Sat Mar-07-09 05:48 PM by EFerrari
On teevee, all I can think of is Dinah Shore and Burnett but that was decades ago.
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. Don't get me started about Disney...
When we had our kids, we rented Disney movies, and I began to notice a pattern.

In the majority of Disney movies, not only is there NO mother or main female character--she is killed off early in the movie!

"Bambi" Mom is shot.
"Finding Nemo"--Mama fish is eaten by a barracuda three minutes into the film
"Little Mermaid"--Has no Mother. Raised by her father.
"Beauty and the Beast"--Belle has no mother. She died.
"Aladin" Jasmine has no mother. Was raised only by her father.
"Brother Bear" The Little Bear's mother is killed in the movie.


And most of the Disney classics, such as Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty--feature female characters that
are innocent and practically abused by everyone around them. There is always a horrible, evil main female
character (Cinderella's wicked stepmother and the Wicked Queen in Sleeping Beauty")...but a MAN (aka "prince)
always saves the day!

Walt Disney had some VERY serious issues with his mother or some other principal female in his life. No joke.
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dustbunnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 07:15 AM
Response to Reply #9
31. The stories of Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty hark back to medieval times.

Same for Beauty and the Beast. Aladin is an ancient Arabic tale. The Little Mermaid was a Hans Christian Andersen classic, not Walt Disney's invention. Neither is Bambi. You're blaming Disney for picking up other people's material and it's rather amazing that you have no clue where these classics came from.
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timtom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 07:48 AM
Response to Reply #9
35. "Walt Disney had some VERY serious issues with his mother"
And because of that traumatic situation with Uncle Walt, look how he managed to shape and influence ancient folk and fairy tales.
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dustbunnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. How did he manage to shape and influence them?
Seems the Disney versions followed the original material pretty much to the letter.
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timtom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #37
39. I don't always invoke the tag.
But that was my point.
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dustbunnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #39
40. Ahhhh... I'm slow this morning.
:D
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #9
54. Oh please; I worked as a Disney animation artist and have been
with the company 20 years now. We went without mother figures because it makes the protagonist face greater adversity to be without one. They are more alone and have much more to overcome without a mother figure. Most are based on traditional myths and fairy tales; Ariel was born from the head of Triton; that's true to the myth. Belle's mother wasn't dead...we never made any mention of her, so she could just as well have run away with another man who wasn't an insane inventor.Same with Jasmine. Sleeping Beauty had FOUR mother figures...perhaps because the villain in that film was also a woman. And what about Jafar, Scar, Stramboli, Rattigan, Rollo, Governor Radcliff, Frollo, Hopper, Macleech, Gaston, and half a dozen other male villains? Heck, Belle was ridiculed in the film for thinking and reading...thought "odd" by the rest of the villagers because she wanted to be educated and wasn't fawning over the hunky but dim witted man in town. That's not a role model that kids should have?
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #9
61. YES! I'm so glad someone else has noticed this, too.
He really had to have been one sick man.

Even the non-cartoon movies - mom is often gone. Usually dead. And the stepmother is always evil.

Ugh. Although my kids watched some of these movies as they grew up, I always made it a point to show them what was happening.
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #9
78. Disney got more politically correct in mid-late 90's with movies like Mulan
They could've made the females a bit stonger in The Lion King but supposedly that was an allegory for Hamlet.
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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #1
19. Pretty much any movie with a female protagonist is tagged (derisively) as a chick movie
The rare exceptions being sci-fi or action flicks like Alien or Lara Croft. Gawd forbid it's about a group of women or multi-generational.
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
20. Regarding Disney.....
Edited on Sat Mar-07-09 10:55 PM by femrap
Did you notice that all of the MOTHERS in Disney movies are killed or taken away....and the fathers take the lead. If there a 'mother figure,' she's damn mean.

Walt definitely had issues.

ETA: I just saw Coffee Cat's excellent list of Disney movies. I think Walt was a sadist, too.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. I've always noticed that. And, in a non-Disney note, movies about inspiring teachers...
are nearly always about male teachers.
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dustbunnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #21
32. Neither one of you realizes where fairy tales come from -

In the days of yore, when these stories were born, it was not uncommon for women to die in childbirth, and children were raised by step-mothers or other family members. Those were not Disney inventions, rather those fairy tales were written long ago.

That also isn't true concerning inspiring teachers.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #32
44. Yes, I know. But why are these fairy tales perpetuated in 20th Century film?
Why are nearly all the characters in Finding Nemo, male?

As for teachers, in one movie, Julia Roberts is inspiring, but in the end loses her job, etc. The Childrens' Hour, the Prime of Miss Jean Brodie, Up the Down Staircase is also about teachers that ultimately get in trouble.

Mr. Holland's Opus, The Dead Poets Society, To Sir With Love, Blackboard Jungle, and the more recent film out, are about men inspiring students.

The huge percentage of women as teachers is not reflected on screen.
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dustbunnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #44
50. I don't know, because they're classics maybe?
Edited on Sun Mar-08-09 10:31 AM by dustbunnie
Why are Jane Austen and Dickens novels "perpetrated" in 20th century film? They're period glimpses in the same way that Snow White, Cinderella and Aladin are. Pocahontas too. And considering that it was only in the last twenty years of the century that women really started to move into the work world, it's not surprising that earlier animated films reflected that.

Add Sister Act, The King and I, Freedom Writers and Meryl Streeps Music of the Heart to your list. On edit - Helen Keller as well. In Dead Poet's Society, Robin Williams gets the ax at the end as well.

I don't know why Finding Nemo has almost all male characters. Does A Bug's Life have all male characters? 101 Dalmations? Wizard of Oz? Finding Neverland? Fantastic Four? X-Men?
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #50
65. Male characters are the default in kiddie lit. Disney perpetuates and normalizes that. nt
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dustbunnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #65
76. Yes, you've said that.
Edited on Sun Mar-08-09 04:00 PM by dustbunnie
I think most would agree there is a huge difference between the type of story told in 1937 - Snow White, and an animated flick created in 1998 - Mulan. The Disney female leads reflect their times. And you may find it deplorable, but girls love princess stories and movies.
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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-09-09 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #44
81. Just for the record,
yes, Mr. Holland and the teacher in Dead Poets Society inspired their students, but they were both jobless by the end of the movie.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 03:47 AM
Response to Reply #1
27. watch any movie trailor
the men doing all kinds of action stuff, the gals are there for their titillation
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
2. Years ago all a husband needed to send his wife to a mental institution
was the signature of 10 people. Many a woman who complained about abuse either of herself or her children found herself locked up for life. My aunt was a heavy set woman and she wore shorts uptown on a very hot day and spent 45 years in the institution at Cherokee, Iowa. When she got out she tried to sue them for wages for the work she had done while there but the courts refused to allow it. That is why today we must take someone in front of a judge to have them committed. Even then I am assuming there are still unjustified commitments.
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. You might be mortified to know that it isn't that hard these days
to have someone committed.
Even if they voluntarily commit themselves--and are told that they can leave when they want to...there are papers to detain them further that only have to be signed by a physician. :(
You have no idea how easy it is to have a judge stop by the Emergency Room and sign papers committing people without ever talking to the person being committed--only taking the words of the medical professionals.
:(
I am so sorry about your aunt. :hug:
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ejpoeta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #14
38. i don't know about that.
I have a couple who are friends of ours. The wife is anorexic and skin and bones. Her husband has been trying to get her in a hospital, but he can't. her family will not help him get his wife help. She is really bad off. She won't eat. there is nothing he can do. I can't imagine how bad her organs are by now. this has been going on for a couple of years now.
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #38
41. I've seen it with my own eyes
Sadly enough.
I'm sorry about your friends.
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
22. Even Mary Todd Lincoln
was put away by her son. She was not happy....she got out eventually.
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Maine-ah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #22
56. I didn't know that, so I of course googled
after the assassination, and the death of their son Thomas she had depression and was prescribed laudanum, which caused hallucinations and anxiety, her hallucinations increased, so they prescribed more laudanum and chloral hydrate, which again increased the problems which is why she was committed. After 3 months of being committed, she was released to the custody of her sister, and declared competent.

So, she was basically committed due to her meds for depression.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Todd_Lincoln
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #56
60. I have always wondered about her?
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #56
74. Plus, Robert was a total DICK.
Hard to believe he was Lincoln's son.
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ensho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #2
58. and daughters were sent to homes for incorrigible girls if they misbehaved


my father threatened me with that and I knew he meant it.

Flagler, the railroad Baron got rid of one of his wives by sending her off to a mental hosp. in Fl. then he could divorce her and marry the next woman who liked being in 'society', which the first wife didn't like to do.

just a little Baron history
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
3. I saw it recently and agree. But have things changed so much?
Thank you Mike 03 for your sensitivity and wisdom. But given the attempts by men to control women--on the courts, in the churches, in the legislatures-- in terms of control over their own bodies, equal pay, insurance reimbursement for birth control, and taking domestic abuse seriously... I dare say not that much has changed. As happy as I am to see progress being made in GLBT rights, women's rights lag behind. Most people don't even know that ERA was never ratified (and the implications of that today.


But, yes, CHANGELING was a amazing movie. I too recommend it highly. After finishing it, I must have spent two hours trying to research what happened to this woman (you'll find contradictory information, in terms of when she died, where she spent the remainder of her life, etc.) Good on Clint Eastwood (and Angela Jolie) for a very well done and thought provoking movie.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Women couldn't sit on juries in NYState until the '60s. That's why the movie is 12 Angry MEN. nt
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #3
16. not that much has changed and the clock has been turned back.
"As happy as I am to see progress being made in GLBT rights, women's rights lag behind. Most people don't even know that ERA was never ratified (and the implications of that today."
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #3
48. Gee, the way I see it is this
Edited on Sun Mar-08-09 09:29 AM by Bluenorthwest
Half the gay people ARE women. Women's rights ARE GLBT rights. Sexisim is the foundation and keystone of homophobia.
I'd be interested to know what GLBT progress you are happy about. I've not seen any in years. I see Democrats voting against equal rights for us, I see other Democrats calling us out for asking for equality. If that is progress, what does regress look like?
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #48
49. Incremental... Attitudes are rapidly changing among youth...
Edited on Sun Mar-08-09 09:46 AM by hlthe2b
as far as GLBT issues go. That is hopeful.

And, yes, women's rights ought to likewise be embraced by GLBT, including right to choose. But, I see too much separation of the issues. Civil rights should be civil rights for all, regardless of race, ethnicity, gender or sexuality.
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #49
51. It is the other way around
Again, the L in GLBT stands for lesbian, and those are women. I've spent much of my life very active in the choice movement, the march for equality, and the fight against domestic violence, as have most of the gay folk I know. In part because many of them are women.
Sexism is the cornerstone of homophobia. Without the one, the other will perish. If one is allowed to flourish, the other will also grow stronger.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #51
52. I'm glad that has been your experience. It is as it should be. n/t
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #52
55. And so,
let me say again that my experience is more common than you seem to think. Among people who are active in any way, that is. The shop and gossip crowd I do not speak for, among gay folk, women, or those who are both. I know many women, straight and gay, who really are not engaged in any political way. I know many gay people, both men and women, who are also not engaged. But those who are tend to see the 'two' issues as one issue. I hope that makes for some encouragement. All any of us can do as individuals is to embrace and support each other all the way to a new and equality based world.
Any victory for women's rights, that is a victory for me, as a man, and particularly as a gay man. And any victory for GLBT folks is also a victory for all women. For all humans. For all of us.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #55
57. For what it is worth, Bluenorthwest...
Edited on Sun Mar-08-09 11:06 AM by hlthe2b
I have likewise found common support on both women's issues, race issues, and GLBT issues from the Lesbian communities in the cities in which I have lived and been active. In reality, I find less support for women's rights from gay males--not all, mind you, but just less. I've noted a dichotomy opinion--even among my gay male friends-- in terms of issues that effect "breeders" and all others, which I find very depressing. To be fair, I suspect there is likewise less support for women's issues coming from the hetero male side as well, even among my progressive friends and acquainances. Therein, lies the problem, I think. We should embrace the issue of civil rights in a comprehensive manner so that we all win.
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #57
62. Well we are in much argeement
I think it is a male thing, and I say this as a man. And as you said before, a bit better with the younger ones, many times.
Embracing civil rights in a comprehensive manner is a great way to put it.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #48
63. Yes, I agree ... however,
IMO, large part of the oppression of the homosexual community was to mainstream

the nuclear/reproducing family. Make it the norm.

And, for the most part, I think homosexuals were pressured into marriages in order

to appear "normal."

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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
6. I saw the real thing
I worked in a southern state psychiatric hospital in the mid 60s. Most of the women there were simply women nobody wanted any more. Their families thought they were the husband's responsibility and the husband had moved on, usually before she was hospitalized for "nervous exhaustion." A few of them were elderly and needed help with the activities of daily living that nobody else wanted to provide. If they were forgetful, they got shipped to the state nuthouse.

They were all medicated to the point that they stopped saying they wanted to get out of that place.

It happened a lot and it happened very recently. This movie would be just a little too real for me. I think I'll probably skip it.
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Politicalboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
7. Watch the Francis Farmer story
Her mother had her institutionalized and that was in the 40's and 50's. Then after years of being out and going back in they gave her a lobotomy.
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tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. Horrible thing to do to a human being. nt
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KT2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
8. The present can be scary too
Ever hear of people who are sensitive to chemicals? More women than men are affected. Powerful interests have and are working hard to have that classified as a mental disorder. In fact efforts have been made to make it so a doctor loses his/her medical license for diagnosing it as anything other than a mental illness.
"Chemophobia" is their name for the mental illness. It is said to occur from childhood abuse, Munchausen Syndrome, Munchhausen by proxy, when women attempt to have their children seen for chemical sensitivity, any past trauma they can come up with etc.

The good news is that doctors have gone to the mat - and by that I mean actually lost everything - to stop that process.
Power never stops.
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. You bring up an interesting point...
Edited on Sat Mar-07-09 09:52 PM by CoffeeCat
In the medical community--there is often a chilling effect on physical disorders that are real--but the medical
community does not want to recognize them. Often, these disorders may be more present in women--because they are due
to stress or a background of abuse.

Fibromyalgia comes to mind. I met so many women in my abuse-survivor support group who had this condition. Many
doctors treated these people like they were making things up. It's gotten much better now. But it seems like
women are often punished for the ways in which they cope with pain--more pointedly, when it is pain caused
by childhood sexual abuse or spousal abuse in adulthood.

I have noticed, in my own journey with sexual abuse--that there is a great deal of propaganda out there about
our symptoms or coping mechanisms being diagnosed as mental disorders. I think a great deal of depression,
anxiety and other mental illnesses are caused by sexual abuse--male perpetrated crimes. But the professionals
are quick to slap on a label of mental illness--which makes the survivor seem defective.

Many mental illnesses are astute coping mechanisms. If a child is abused, they may become depressed as their
system shuts down from being over-run. The depression allows them to survive.

I sometimes wish these conditions wouldn't be classified as "illnesses"--because often times--developing depression
or bipolar disorder or some disasociative state--is a survival technique. Ultimately, a person wants to drop
these survival techniques, but that requires a lot of therapy and learned skills, that were severely diminished
in childhood. I just wish we could find a more appropriate label than "illness" when we're really talking about
coping mechanisms.

(I also understand that some mental illness is due to chemical imbalances, etc.)
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. and the medical tests for what is "normal" or "standard" are mostly on males.
heigthtened sensitivity to toxic chemicals is not a "phobia"


interesting discussion, very good post. TY.

"I sometimes wish these conditions wouldn't be classified as "illnesses"--because often times--developing depression
or bipolar disorder or some disasociative state--is a survival technique. "
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #15
64. And most of the medicines create new problems for which they prescribe new medicines!!!
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #64
75. and people who are sensitive threaten the profit margin of the med pushers
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BuelahWitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #12
67. My mother was told her migraine headaches were caused by a need for sex
Edited on Sun Mar-08-09 01:32 PM by BuelahWitch
by at least two doctors. A couple more said she was a just a hypochondriac. Others juts threw pills at her.
Finally after 20 years somebody found the headaches resulted from the deterioration of the cartiledge in her jaw. A surgery was performed and *poof* no more migraines.
It makes me wonder how soon the jaw issue would have been cured had she been a male.
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #8
23. Guess I'll be quiet about my allergic reaction
to perfumes.
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KT2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. But in a way you can't
when people react to the perfume worn by medical personnel, it can affect test results, like BP and heart rate.
Had a friend who was in the hospital with pneumonia. He was just about to be released when the cleaning crew came through his wing. His heart rate shot up and they would not let him leave until they figured out what was causing it. He kept telling them it was the cleaner being used but they would not believe him. Finally they let him leave but would not admit that the cleaner was causing his heart rate to go so high.
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #25
73. not let him leave? WTF?
I felt like I practically had to fight my way out of the hospital. I sorta felt like it was prison with an IV, not that I have any experience with prison. But if you don't think I am healthy enough to leave, just try to get in my way, and you might need a hospital stay yourself.

But it also shows that the "doctors don't listen to or believe patients" is not limited to female patients. I got much the same reaction when I told them "I cannot swallow". The response was "what do you mean?" I was like "which word didn't you understand?" But their thinking seemed to be "since we know you can swallow, you must mean something different than what you just said"
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-09-09 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #25
79. Actually, I am lucky....
I just get an itchy skin rash where I put the perfume.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
10. SPOILER
How sad about the kid. I figured he didn't make it through the desert.
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dustbunnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 07:30 AM
Response to Reply #10
33. The movie was based on a true story.

The son was most likely killed as one of the serial killer "Wineville Chicken Murders." Disgusting story.
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tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 09:44 PM
Response to Original message
11. Watch his "Bird" as well (as I have just finished doing)
Edited on Sat Mar-07-09 09:45 PM by tbyg52
Eastwood is a beautiful human being who gets it.
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beac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #11
59. Eastwood supported McCain in 2008, so he doesn't "get" all of it.
It's such a shame. I really have a hard time understanding how he can make such powerful films and still think that Walnuts and Caribou Barbie were the right choice for the country. :shrug:
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tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #59
68. Good grief! I did not know that.
I guess we all have our blind spots, but that one is a doozie!
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
17. I felt the same way after reading The Yellow Wallpaper.
\
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
18. Thank you Mike03 for a really interesting thread.
:grouphug:
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bbgrunt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 11:49 PM
Response to Original message
24. A really good and eye opening expose
of how the health care industry has treated women is the 1980's book For Her Own Good: Two Centuries of the Experts Advice to Women by Barbara Ehrenreich and Deidre English.
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NoSheep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 01:17 AM
Response to Original message
26. John Cassavetes' films about women are very important for this reason.
If you are interested, check them out.
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hayu_lol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 05:27 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. The Changeling is an excellent movie...
based upon a true story(google: chicken coop murders). The ranch where the murders took place was called Wineland, is now called Mira Loma and is just west of Riverside, CA.

Eastwood did a very fine job with this movie. Much care was taken that only things that existed in 1928 were shown(buildings, streets, infrastructure). Only 'out of place' item was the one short shot of the LA skyline showing the LA City Hall which was not completed until 1935. Most of the household items and clothing was from the late 20s through the 30s in most homes and offices.

The treatment of women, as depicted in this film, did exist in the form shown at that time.

Really an outstanding movie.

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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 05:33 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. i think though men can easily be treated the same way - made to look crazy,
locked up, etc.

it's power, not gender.

or rather, gender is only one of the tools of power.
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NoSheep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #29
77. One of Cassavettes movies deliberately depicts both sides of that coin
he was very good at zeroing in on humanity in almost every form.
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #28
47. They used the court tramscripts word-for-word, too
VERY accurate.

This movie and "LA Confidential" are terrific at showing how corrupt and powerful the LA cops and local government were.
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #26
42. Good call...
Opening Night blew my young mind, and I recently saw it again. Rowland's performance is amazing, Cassavetes' direction is almost invisible yet so very uncompromising...
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #42
45. Rowlands and Cassevetes are a great pair. nt
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intaglio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 07:00 AM
Response to Original message
30. I must see this film ...
Too often Hollywood trivialises women and there are very, very few recent films with strong female roles. Amazingly China and Japan have produced several ("Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon", "Princess Mononoke"; "Nausica"; "Spirited Away"; "Ghost in the Shell")
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no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 07:45 AM
Response to Original message
34. The term, hysterics or hysterical.
Greek for the word, uterus.

The connection isn't hard.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #34
46. That's right, madness is a female or female-derived thing. That's why I ...
Edited on Sun Mar-08-09 09:18 AM by Captain Hilts
don't like the use of the term 'bitch' as a verb, it, too, associates excessive anger with being female.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 07:54 AM
Response to Original message
36. I am a 50 year old woman
and I recall being about 9 years old and dumbfounded when I was taught that women had to fight for the right to vote. I was just astonished. I still am in some respects. Watch the HBO film Iron Jawed Angels and be really impressed with the women's movement.....http://www.hbo.com/films/ironjawedangels/
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #36
53. Yep, the imprisonment and force feeding scenes were intense
my grandmother was a suffragette and moved on to civil rights once women did finally get the vote. She was an amazing woman; I can still recall her singing "give peace a chance" to herself in her 80's ans she was fixing dinner. I still find myself shocked when any woman balks at being called a "feminist"; they seem to have no idea how difficult life once was for us. It sounds like "The Changeling" might open a few eyes.
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zalinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #53
70. Women's rights are also starting to bite us on the butt
We thought we could have it all, but apparently not. A friend of mine is going through a very bizarre situation with her husband. He's cheating, but she's paying the price. His reasoning is that he should get the kids because he can make more money and therefore can support the children better. She has worked part time over the years, even though she struggled with medical issues. She is now on disability. Another guy, who knows them both, agrees with the husband, that it is logical that the husband should have the kids because of the support issue. I've also heard both of them saying how a woman MUST have a job while they are married, whether they have children or not. Oh, and these guys are between 30 and 40 years old.

Women are still doing 90% of housework, even if they have a job, according to studies that I've read, and they are the main child care givers. They are also expected to take care of the parents when they need help, not only hers, but his too. Women in their 50's and 60's are being burned out. And, many who have navigated all the trials of their marriage, then find out that hubby wants to leave and find himself a new younger wife. And, of course, no alimony, after all, she's got a job and can support herself. (Like her job at the department store will keep her out of poverty.)

Women still don't have it made in this world, they are always damned if they do, or damned if they don't. Where exactly have we gotten to? It used to be, that a woman had a choice on whether she wanted to work outside the home, now she doesn't. It doesn't matter whether or not the money is needed, or whether there is children involved. Now, it seems that women are expected to hold down a job, look glamorous, raise smart, healthy, well-behaved children, have a clean house, be a gourmet cook, a sex kitten in the bedroom and do it all with a smile on your face, or you are unfit.

zalinda
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #36
66. I was just trying to think of the name of the movie about the Suffragettes . . .
Angela Huston is in it --- not sure of the date - still in my library.

But one of the characters -- supposedly a Senator's wife is actually threatened

with loss of home, income, and child!

I'm not sure how true that character was in the story, but certainly modeled

on many true instances of those kinds of threats - often carried out.

As much as patriarchy oppressed, murdered and harmed women/females . . . they

were not totally successful in subduing them until the WITCH HUNTS.

After the Crusades, the populations were largely female because so many males

were killed in the wars. These women inherited their husband's wealth giving them

power to survive, etc. Thus began the Witch Hunts to deprive them of the right

to inherit family wealth. And along with it the right to take children from them.

What we need to understand is that this is pariarchy warring on women and it won't

stop until we stop patriarchy, itself. Organized patriarchal religion is the

underpinning for patriarchy. The Bible was written to cement patriarchy.

The only way patriarchy holds on to power is the same way that they took power . . .

by VIOLENCE.


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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #66
69. 'Suffragists'. Not the diminutive, 'suffragettes'.
It took me some practice to get it right.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #69
71. Thanks -- !!! Suffragists...!!!
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #71
72. I still screw it up sometimes. Perhaps because I love the song in Mary Poppins. nt
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
43. The court scenes were taken directly from the actual transcripts
The film was very, very accurate.
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-09-09 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
80. Eastwood did two brilliant films this year... absolutely his best
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