My response to Republican who is suddenly upset about Obama's adding to the debt

[ProfessorPlum]

Him: Now that the Messiah has come and has shown his true intentions, how does it sit with you? Excited about paying more in taxes? Looking forward to your kids being leveraged to the hilt before they even know what leveraged means?

Me: Oh, I get it, you’ve suddenly discovered the problem with a large national debt.

Him: Yeah, and in one week adding more debt to it that the evil GWB ever did is especially grand. :)

Me: I know you are half-kidding here, but I had a minute this morning to check the numbers:

The debt at the start of each fiscal year is available (http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo4.htm and http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo5.htm), and while it isn’t perfect, you can use the amounts at the end of the years after presidents leave office (the last fiscal budgets that are signed under them) as a rough estimate of how much they have added to the debt during their administration.

Our current total debt is about $10.9 trillion dollars (http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np), so where did that come from?

At the end of the last fiscal year that Carter signed (9/30/1981), our debt was just under 1 trillion dollars, 997 billion.

At the end of Reagan fiscal years (9/30/1989), our debt was $2.86 trillion, so Reagan built up about 1.86 trillion in debt

At the end of Bush I’s fiscal years (9/30/1993), our debt was $4.42 trillion, so Bush I built up about 1.56 trillion in debt (in half the time of Reagan!)

At the end of Clinton fiscal years (9/30/2001), our debt was $5.8 trillion, so Clinton built up about 1.4 trillion in debt (less than Bush I, over twice the amount of time!)

At the end of Bush II’s fiscal years (9/30/2009), our will be at least $10.9 trillion, so we can attribute at least $5.1 trillion in debt to Bush II. (We can estimate the actual deficit for fy2009 to be about $900 billion ($485 billion is the official number, but that doesn’t include the two wars we are fighting), and since we are only about halfway through fiscal year, we can expect that number to go up about $450 billion – making Bush II’s share of the total more like $5.5 trillion.

Let’s add Carter to really make this comparison: He added $300 billion to the debt. (9/77 to 9/81)

So, who bankrupts the country the fastest?

President How much Per year

Carter $300 billion $75 billion
Reagan $1.86 trillion $232 billion
Bush I $1.56 trillion $390 billion
Clinton $1.4 trillion $175 billion
Bush II $5.1 trillion $637 billion (so far)

So, if you really want to bankrupt the country quickly, elect a Bush. Remember, their good buddy Grover Norquist has stated that is exactly their strategy – to bankrupt the government and make it so small and weak that it can be “drowned in a bathtub”.

What do we learn from these numbers? That Dumbya nearly doubled our already enormous federal debt. He dug a hole that was almost twice as big as the preceding 42 presidents COMBINED. Wow.

We also see that roughly 80% of the staggering current debt was accumulated under just three presidents: Reagan, Bush I, and Bush II.

Now, about Obama. His stimulus package came in at under $800 billion (http://www.foxbusiness.com/story/markets/industries/government/obama-poised-sign-stimulus-law/). And his proposal for fiscal year 2010 calls for a deficit of about $1.75 trillion (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/02/26/obamas-budget-overview-predicts-trillion-deficit/). So, by 9/30/2010, when he will have been in office almost 2 years, he will have added roughly $2.55 trillion to the debt (that is $1.27 trillion per year, roughly twice the rate of Dim Son’s spending). What do we learn from this?

That Obama hasn’t added to the debt nearly as much as Bush did, by a long shot, since the money from the stimulus is just beginning to be spent, and the rest won’t begin being spent until October of this year. Still, he is talking about spending quickly. Why might that be? BECAUSE W. RUINED THE GLOBAL ECONOMY. What did W. “buy” with that $5.1 trillion (and counting)? Let’s see: Two unnecessary and unwinnable wars, the destruction of our privacy and food safety systems, and a bubble which has now popped and is sending the world into worldwide economic collapse. Obama HAS to spend money to try to fix the massive, expensive problems that Bush left for him.

Republican defenders of Bush the lesser better hope to hell that Obama succeeds at what he is trying, because only if he manages to pull us out of this will Chimpy/Cheney ever hope to be considered anything other than the worst administration ever. If Obama can’t, Bush’s name will be shit for the rest of history.

As far as being “leveraged”, since your guy DOUBLED the debt and left the world in a complete clusterfuck, I suggest you STFU for a while about Obama’s spending for a while (say 2-3 years) and just see what happens.

Have a nice day, and welcome to the world of fiscal responsibility.

Note: This analysis is imperfect – these are real dollars, not inflation adjusted dollars, as I couldn’t find any by year debt records in adjusted dollars past 2004 or so. That adjustment would make Clinton and Bush II look more frugal, and Reagan, Carter, and Bush I like much bigger spenders.

[Lasher]

1. Good response.

Might use some of that myself.

[sharp_stick]

2. Nice

now watch him crawl back under his rock and not bother responding, or responding with some weird rushism and then bolting. This will end when he comes out of hiding at the end of the winter and pretends he never said it to begin with. Republicans are great at this, I've seen Hannity deny saying something while the video of him saying it was playing on the other side of the screen.

Republicans live in delusion because reality is too tough for them to comprehend.

[global1]

3. Grover Norquist's Statement Of Strategy - Any Video Posted On That.....

I think that if a video is available of Grover Norquist stating that their strategy is to bankrupt the government and make it so small and weak that it can be “drowned in a bathtub” - that we should make that available and e-mail it to everyone.

Is that clip available anywhere?

[ProfessorPlum]

7. Here is a link to what is supposed to be the audio

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1123439

Trying to find the quote . ..

[ProfessorPlum]

9. Hmmm. Here he is denying it:

http://www.pbs.org/now/transcript/transcript_norquist.html

BILL MOYERS: You're on record as saying, my goal is to cut government in half in 25 years, to get it down to the size where we can drown it in the bath tub. Is that a true statement?

GROVER NORQUIST: No. The first part is an accurate statement of exactly what we're trying to do. We've set as a conservative movement a goal of reducing the size and cost of government in half in 25 years, which is taking it from a third of the economy down to about 17 percent, taking 20 million government employees and looking to privatize and get other opportunities so that you don't have all of the jobs that are presently done by government done by government employees. We need a Federal government that does what the government needs to do, and stops doing what the government ought not to be doing.

[Ganja Ninja]

4. You might also point out that the economic death spiral we're in

was well underway before Obama took office and any spending we have to do to pull us out of it can be tacked on to the Bush deficit.

[Arugula Latte]

5. I like how you quote foxbusiness.com to him.

:rofl:

[ProfessorPlum]

6. Yeah, I thought that was a nice touch.

[elocs]

8. I have found that the average Republican does not know the figures and doesn't care.

If the figures do not agree with what they already believe, then Republicans simply view them as Liberal propaganda and simply dismiss them. They don't want to be confused by the facts.

[ProfessorPlum]

11. I know. I've already found that out with this guy

This is mostly for my own records. He'll just bounce to the next RW talking point.

[elocs]

15. Republicans at this point have really been distilled down to the ultra hardcore cultists.

Those who would listen to reason probably voted for Obama already and will give him a chance even if they still consider themselves to be Republicans. There really is no reasoning with the ones who are remaining.

[gratuitous]

10. Don't hold your breath waiting for a substantive response

I'm guessing some oblique reference to Clinton getting a blow job followed by radio silence.

[ProfessorPlum]

12. :) No doubt

[baldguy]

13. You're asking him to add?

Conservatism precludes the ability to do simple math.

[ProfessorPlum]

14. :)

[wiggs]

16. Cheney: "Deficits don't matter" Why isn't that quote being

dredged up by journalists, pundits, and dem leaders? Would be pertinent....

[wiggs]

17. Discouraged that once again, dems aren't taking advantage of an easy case

to make against gop policies....saw van der heuvel do it this weekend against Rove, it's not hard. Yet media, dem leaders, and pundits allow the gop to frame Obama as committing generational theft. This will stick unless more vigorously exposed. The administration can't rely alone on common sense, thinking ability, and research abilities of the american people.

...first point to make is that the stimulus, bailout, and iraq spending are on the Bush administration. Period. Like when a relief pitcher comes in with bases loaded...those runners belong to the previous pitcher. Second... dems and journalists must insist that accurate numbers (like those you post) be used. It is time that propaganda and misinformation be ridiculed and slapped down hard. I'm not saying that, to match the republicans, we need to engage in misinformation that is skewed left. We need to be vigorous in defending the truth.

the public is getting much more (mis)information and propaganda from Steele, Rove, Cantor, Boehner, Limbaugh than from economists or experts. This is the strategy. They are playing propaganda, like guerilla warfare. Lining up in straight lines in traditional warfare when your opponent is hiding behind trees and rocks is suicide.

[ProfessorPlum]

18. Agreed about the stimulus, bailout, and Iraq spending

and even Afghanistan spending, but of course that is the "good" war, which I also opposed but which few Democrats did.

[wiggs]

19. obama's team was great at rebutting smears during the campaign. Countering

bs was almost instantaneous and was sometimes brutally frank and to the point. Since the gop continues with the same junk, the same kinds of responses are still needed.

The vitriol, anger, and misinformation spewed on radio and tv by Hannity alone is toxic and needs an antidote.