Is the economy in the middle of birth pains of a new dynamic that will shape future generations

[Peacetrain]

For the last 40 plus years we have moved from a producer economy to a consumer economy.

Economies are just a measure of how humans create the things they need to exist and an arbitrary cost assessed to it.

If we move from the "me me me" consumerism, to a producer economy that benefits all.. (totally thinking green here) that moves to things like solar reworking of existing homes etc.. utilizing things already produced, and reusing them..and promote education as a "value" within our own society.. it could be pretty sweet in the long run for all of us.

But in order to do that, it would have to be a traumatic birth pangs and is that what we are experiencing.

Or am I just overly hopeful?

[bullimiami]

1. at least its some possibility that holds promise of better times.

[Peacetrain]

4. Actually I have been feeling pretty positive

for the last month or so..I know there is a LOT of bad apples we still have to shake out of the trees..but what I am seeing in our local newspapers, with move to green etc, it is very exciting..

We were an overinflated market that was for sure..

[marmar]

2. I really do think this is the end of an economy based on consumerism.....and it should be.

What the next incarnation of the economy will be, I'm not sure.....

[tekisui]

3. I may be overly pessimistic.

But, I see an ever expanding use-and-throw-away society. We have been using up land with overfarming over production and toxic pollution. We have used it and tossed it. We have done the same with our cities, so many have been used for labor and factories, until they were tossed to the wayside in chases for cheaper labor. Most of the products we use are tossed after one use.

I am afraid this philosophy has been extended to our entire economy and our entire country. The uber-capitalistic/consumeristic practices are bringing us to the brink of throwing this country away.

[Peacetrain]

6. I felt that way the last few years myself..

But this economic shakeup.. may help people make better choices..which in the long run will help us all

[CJCRANE]

I agree in part

but IMO the next phase is a recyclable/renewable throwaway society. Guilt-free conspicous consumption.

[tyne]

5. Yes, I think

you're right. And, we've just started our labor. When the Limpubs cry out...that means we're at the top of a contraction!

This is all a really good thing.

[Peacetrain]

7. Yep, but we are going to deliver a beautiful baby for the future

when this labor is over :fistbump:

[NJCher]

8. yes

One look at where some of the money goes in Obama's stimulus bill will reveal that it's time to move on.

Just this morning, I read about a group of young people who are gearing up to start businesses with the stimulus money. They have a plan to weatherize huge numbers of homes at once. This was a story on NPR.

Cher

[ThomWV]

9. Let's start with your first sentence

"For the last 40 plus years we have moved from a producer economy to a consumer economy."

I think you meant to say 'Over' rather than 'for' but that doesn't matter. We are still the world's largest producer of stuff so I think its at least partially incorrect to say we have moved away from that and we've been a consumer society more than 40 years. So I don't think your statement is actually true although I think you're on the right track. It seems to me that what has happened is we're in the process of moving from being a nation that over produced and over consumed to one that doesn't - or maybe still does but does it a lot less. That too would mark a dramatic change and there would be much coping, but its not quite the same thing.

For whatever its worth what I think is happening is that we are moving out of our of our great 'ages'. I see every 'age' to be a time in which something that did not exist before to any great extent becomes the norm. So we had the stone age, and the iron age, and the bronze age, and the industrial revolution, and the computer age and all sorts of divisions each introducing a new norm that did not exist before. The one we just came out of was the age of waste. Never before in man's history was it possible to waste - but we sure did it. And now we have discovered that in fact we can't waste any more than our forefathers did. Just my opinion.

[Peacetrain]

11. Well since most new jobs.. 70% I think were service connected

I see that as consumer driven.. but I think we are headed to something better for our future generations..

[AB_Positive]

10. I too am optimistic with no real reason to be.

Working 3 jobs to support a mother who's jobless and still struggling to find work, going crazy with stress and my partner living 5 states away until her degree is done... and yet I can't help but feel like we're going to turn the corner. I'm working on finding the experience needed to be a med/IT woman (heads up, if you're in IT and don't have medical knowledge get it... the stimulus and health care plans are going to work heavily on modernizing the medical field, and IT will be needed), companies that would've laughed at 'going green' just 5 years ago are changing their tunes when they see the actual monetary savings involved... I don't know if we're too late but we are changing.

At least we're trying. Then again we'll probably all be dead in the 2050s when the magnetic poles reverse and we lose atmosphere globally for a couple weeks. Either way, I plan on at least being healthy, happy and stress free when it all goes poof. :D

[Peacetrain]

12. I know what you mean>>

My brother lost his job, and we support my mother.. but dang he found one washing dishes.. and guess what, I have been sitting on the sidelines with my money, I pulled it out of the markets a while back(even though I was in social choice) but I am getting ready to head back in.. May I think.. and I am going green..

[TBF]

13. I feel optimistic as well Peacetrain,

this crash (or correction, however you want to look at it) was overdue. It's important to talk about it because we are then being cognizant of what we'd like the future to be. I believe we do control that. That is one thing Obama said in general terms that I completely agree with. We will be stronger, now let's talk about how we want "strong" to look.

I personally favor lifting up everyone (which is going to bring the level down for the top 1/2 of 1% that owns everything - so you'll hear them kicking and screaming), with things like eliminating all tax cuts Bush put into place, transitioning to single-payer universal health care, transitioning to renewable energy sources, thinking about how to shelter our homeless, feed our hungry, fund mass transportation.

Good thread, I like how you framed this.

[Peacetrain]

14. I know we have a lot ahead of us, and it will be an up and down

car wreck from day to day.. but even with our own economic issues, I sense possibilities, that I did not see 2 or 3 years ago.

[TBF]

15. Absolutely. I think back to when I worked in a psych hospital

right out of college. Unfortunately our chemically dependent patients used to have to crash pretty hard if there was any hope of turning their lives around. Only when they hit bottom would the enormity of their actions hit, and we'd have a shot that they'd be scared enough to listen to us and make behavioral changes. "It works if you work it". We can do this.

[sandnsea]

16. We didn't need the crash

to move to a different kind of society and economy. The crash was Wall Street created. But the only thing that will get us out of this is a new economy, and even if we buy things that are good for us and the planet, that is still a form of consumerism.

[Peacetrain]

17. Absolutely "green" consumerism.. that is what an economy is

how things are made for humans to live, and an arbitrary value attached to it..I think we are moving that arbitrary value to a green mode.. sustainables.. that in the end help promote life beyond human needs.. the health of the earth etc.

:)

And in doing that, we add jobs, and an intrinsic value to our own lives.. and the guilt of using 25% of the worlds resources every year, and having to defend it will begin to winnow away

[sandnsea]

18. Gore would have created that economy

That's one of the key differences between Democrats and Republicans. Democrats always move us to the next level of innovation. They use tax dollars and incentives to actively move us to where we need to go. They recognize that the government has always shaped this country, from building roads and canals to the Lewis & Clark Expedition to the railroad and forward. Republicans just cannot see that and let us waste away to ruin. The market is just not enough.

[Peacetrain]

19. The republicans are certainly only in for the here and now

They have no concept of laying down a long term healthy economy for not only now, but future generations..

[Kansas Wyatt]

20. The economy is re-setting itself and moving away from Reaganomics Policies.

All of the outrage by Republicans, against anything that would help 'We The People,' rather than the Wealthy Elite, was their warning and notice they the Obama Administration would find no help with the economy.

Now the Wealthy Elite are going to make it as hard as possible for the Obama Administration to change the economy, as the policy changes from their gimmick money markets and consumerism economy, back to a real economy with a solid foundation that places the middle class first in policy decisions.

Personal Empires above Country... The Wealthy Elite's motto, and Republicans do their bidding.