When the privileged fall...

[misanthrope]

...It looks like the thud is bigger than they anticipated.

While you normally want to have the utmost sympathy for the victims of misfortune, some within this article don't quite pluck all my heartstrings with full gusto.

snip: Nine months ago he lost his job as the security manager for the western United States for a Fortune 500 company, overseeing a budget of $1.2 million and earning about $70,000 a year. Now he is grateful for the $12 an hour he makes in what is known in unemployment circles as a “survival job” at a friend’s janitorial services company. But that does not make the work any easier.

“You’re fighting despair, discouragement, depression every day,” Mr. Cooper said.


Sounds like Mr. Cooper is having to readjust to what reality is for a great deal of his countrymen and will be on every day of their lives with no end. No, it's not fun but that is life for many of us that the nation chooses to forget about.

Hubris has come to town, is kicking ass and taking names. The overall impression I'm left with from the article is that a lot of these people's biggest lesson to be learned from all this is the apparent way they looked down their noses at those less fortunate than them. It would appear the readjustment of superficialities and materialism is causing angst. I guess the guy in the corner office isn't intrinsically any better a person than the fellow mopping the floors, now is he?

At the risk of sounding delusional, maybe the best thing to come out of these economic stresses might be a change in the way we view ourselves and others. Will we ever realize socio-economic hierarchy is a tool of oppression?

[amitten]

1. When the priveleged fall--f*** them all.

Greed is the root of all evil.

And yes, I believe this is karma on a grand scale.

[lunatica]

2. He might learn to be grateful for the janitorial job

Pain is the greatest teacher. You can ask any metaphysical student. It's the great equalizer. But, really, is the pain of someone who has a high paying cushy job worse than the pain of the janitor he replaced and who now has no job?

[sandnsea]

3. $70,000 a year is not privileged

Wow, they're just rewriting this script any way they can to take the focus off the wealthy.

[Deja Q]

11. In today's economy, it's healthy middle middle class.

Not upper class. Not rich.

Lower middle class would be around $50,000 - give or take... IMHO FWIW.

[sandnsea]

15. Mean household is $50,000

Half of households earn less. But trying to make ends meet on $50,000 would not be easy for anybody with a family. Technically though, I think somewhere around $30,000 is lower middle class.

Regardless, they just seem to want to avoid talking about the top 5%, $100,000+ crowd.

[truebrit71]

26. No shit! In today's world that is barely middle class..what's next combined yearly income of $100k..

..is "rich"?

Gimme a break...

Being rich is like porn...everyone knows it when they see it...and $70k a year ain't it..

[sandnsea]

29. $100,000 household income is top 5%

Maybe 10%. So it is "rich" in a technical sense. It's at least an income where you can put some money away and end up with a million, if the obscenely rich would stop screwing around and tanking the economy every ten years.

But $70,000, no way, not rich at all and unlikely to ever get rich, unless they never lose their job and never have a medical emergency. Even then, it's possible to have to spend every penny of that $70,000 on housing, insurance, and taxes.

[neebob]

47. I make $70,600 a year ...

until tomorrow, that is, when my 10-percent pay cut takes effect, and I'm just getting by. I know there are other single heads of household and two-income families getting by on a lot less, so I know I'm not underprivileged, but I don't feel especially privileged either.

[GoCubsGo]

53. I think they're trying to make a big deal of his previous employer...

He worked at a Fortune 500 company. Supposedly, working for them makes you a wealthy big-shot, regardless of how low on the totem pole you are. Now, he's a "lowly" janitor. They picked the wrong guy to make their point.

[patrice]

4. Maybe some of them will come to understand why "the Poor" don't just "pull themselves up

by their bootstraps".

[northernlights]

41. um, and maybe some of them already pulled themselves up

by their bootstraps the first time around. And know there's no way they'll be able to do it a second time. Not likely past 50; not likely in this economy.

That's why they hold out until the last dime before taking whatever job they can get. Once they take the $10/hour job, the odds of "bouncing back" are slim to none.

[patrice]

51. Yeah! And how about past 60 and paid all of the bills and saved all of the money and helped the

kids get on their feet, did everything "right", except trusting a system that LOST almost all of the assets they told us to acquire for our old age.

[drmeow]

Note the location

Tempe, AZ. How much do you want to bet that idiot will continue to vote for McCain and Kyl and all the right-wing nut jobs who populate AZ government. As long as they think they can stop abortion, they will shoot themselves economically in the foot every time.

[Catshrink]

23. Tempe, AZ is the most progressive area in the Phoenix metro area

It's rep is Harry Mitchell and I'd have to look, but I'd bet that Tempe precincts supported Kyl's opponent in his last election and voted strongly for Obama.

My area, somewhat east of Tempe, on the other hand is represented by Jeff Flake. :puke:

[drmeow]

44. The article was written in Tempe

The couple lives in Glendale.

Believe me, I KNOW Tempe's the most progressive. That's why I live there instead of anywhere else in the valley. But we've still got our share of right wingers. And I'll bet that couple (who start each day with a prayer) vote for McCain and Kyl.

(PS - sorry about you being in Flake territory - :puke: is right!)

[lukasahero]

5. This guy made $70,000

He's not "the privileged"

You're fighting the wrong enemy.

[misanthrope]

12. I guess that's all relative...

...My dirt farmer ancestors would say he's very privileged. So would the guy behind the counter at the gas station around the corner. So would the fellow who owns the little cafe where I get lunch now and again.

I'm not saying Mr. $70,000 is my enemy. His real enemy was the way he let society convince him to determine human worth by job titles and salaries. Without that perspective, he wouldn't be having the emotional difficulty he is.

We all make that judgment to certain degrees and all it does is lead us to endless dissatisfaction.

[lukasahero]

20. You're not even in the ballpark of the people who are 'priveleged'

It's not even worth arguing if you can't understand that it's the folks making millions a year that are the problem.

[patrice]

6. Thom Hartmann was recently citing research that strongly supports how much CHANCE is involved in

"$ucce$$".

[fascisthunter]

10. I Have one of the Best CEO's in my Company

he really gets it, both he and his wife. I love working for him.

[patrice]

24. Though Chance is an important factor, it's not 100% of the dynamic. I know what you mean.

Some of the dynamic IS real knowledge and understanding. My boss, a director, is very smart in his cost-consciousness. His focus is on adding value to our enterprise and he knows how to treat people in order to get ALL of them to add value to our work.

[Warpy]

19. CHANCE plus being born into the right family

Don't underestimate the power of family networking in setting one up for success...or failure.

[MadHound]

7. Umm, I would hardly call $70,000 "privleged", more like middle class

Most two income professional households bring that in, do you get glee when they fall? No indication that these people were greedy or lived beyond their means.

I'd be careful if I were you, I think that you're going on schadenfreude overload.

[JerseygirlCT]

9. exactly.

This "rich" vs. poor fight that keeps being created here is terribly counter-productive.

People all over are hurting. Am I qualified to judge their degree of acceptable hurt?

People are told to work hard in order to get a good education and a good job. They do everything they're supposed to do, they work hard, they pay their taxes, they help in the communities, they give to charity. And then, one day through no fault of their own, the rug gets pulled out from under them. Is it up to me to judge whether their suffering is legitimate based on the size of that rug?

$70k is not exactly up there with the CEOs of our major corporations. That's pretty darned middle class around here.

[Deja Q]

13. Exactly.

[misanthrope]

16. There are just as many who never make it that far...

...and a great deal of it is due to happenstance.

If you'll actually read what I've written in this thread, it's apparent that what I'm commenting on is the mental adjustment the people in article are having to make by being dropped on the socio-economic ladder. It's revelatory of their worldview and their place in it prior to the "adjustment."

[JerseygirlCT]

18. Worldview and their place in it...

I could as easily find myself in that position. I don't think there's anything about my worldview that would make that adjustment any easier. It's hard, period.

And yes, there are plenty of people who do everything right and still can't get ahead. Blaming those who do succeed isn't a useful way of dealing with that problem at all. Might make some feel better and righteous, but it doesn't cause any real change.

Being poor doesn't necessarily mean one has a righteous worldview. Or that one gives a damn about anyone else. Ditto being a bit more than poor. We really need to quit this stereotyping of people based on their income (anything more than what I make is RICH! And rich people suck!) and start looking at their behavior - individually - instead.

[northernlights]

25. um, not exactly...

Adjusting to a change in means is not just a mental adjustment. Trying to keep up with an underwater mortgage for a house you can't sell is not just a "mental adjustment." Trying to continue to support 8 children through these changes is not just a "mental adjustment." Trying to get back into your old career so you can continue to support your family and not have everyone end up in the street is not just a "mental adjustment."

I'd withhold sympathy *only* if they voted for *.

[MadHound]

33. I was responding to your OP

Where you stated "While you normally want to have the utmost sympathy for the victims of misfortune, some within this article don't quite pluck all my heartstrings with full gusto." Whereupon you proceed to cut to the part about Cooper. If you weren't expressing schadenfreude about his fall, then perhaps you should make yourself and your POV a bit clearer than mud:shrug:

But somehow I still think that you were expressing schadenfreude over his plight, because immediately afterwards you wrote "Sounds like Mr. Cooper is having to readjust to what reality is for a great deal of his countrymen and will be on every day of their lives with no end. No, it's not fun but that is life for many of us that the nation chooses to forget about."

So while later on in the thread, after you had been called on your viewpoint, perhaps you did start commenting on the mental adjustment people are having to make. But sorry, your OP was nothing but gloating at how far these "privileged people" have fallen. And frankly, I find that sort of misplaced glee despicable. What's next for you, joy that those of us in the $40,000 range are having to go to an hourly wage?

[misanthrope]

35. "Full gusto" is the key...

...I feel more sorry for him than I would for Dick Cheney, but not as much as others I personally know whose situation is more dire.

The breast cancer incident for the Coopers really sucks. That's hard.

But the "shame" is what turned me off. We do what we must and there's no shame in that.

[patrice]

28. It's all relative. Point well taken, though. Thanks for the reminder.

:hi:

[whoneedstickets]

8. Security Manager from Tempe, AZ - likely GOP voter...

Stupid, but hardly privileged.

[Warpy]

21. $70.000 didn't go that far in Tempe

at the height of the real estate bubble, that's for sure.

His income has been cut in half and he's got to be hurting, especially if he tried to buy the good life through debt.

A new generation is learning a harsh old lesson: income can come and go, but debt is forever.

[northernlights]

14. I'm sorry you're so bitter

I didn't see anything in this article suggesting the formerly privileged people looked down their noses at anybody. I used to make over $70K before the high-tech crash and 9/11. Before I made $70K+, though, I made one hell of a lot less. In fact, I started straight out of college out making something like $2/hour -- minimum wage plus 15 cents. So to me, people who start out at $10/hour and whine are crybabies. All through my 20s I juggled paying rent on first my 1 room and then my 2 rooms versus food. It wasn't until I was 32 that I graduated from 2 rooms to 3. And I've lacked health insurance for *most* of my life. I don't even want it now...if I get cancer I'm more than happy to check out.

Many of us are people who got up every day and worked very hard at what we do and climbed the latter of success. Our spending was the engine of our economy, and we're the ones losing homes that we saved for and earned, even living well within our means. Remember, this is a country where you can make $250K and be considered middle-class.

$70K sounds like a lot of money, but to have taken until age 45 or 50 to climb there means you did it the old fashioned way. It's not like they rolled out of school into half million dollar per year jobs (like a certain young lady named Chelsea and people of her ilk get to do). And it's nothing compared to the MILLIONS their bosses take home every year.

I feel sorry for them. They *think* they're in survival jobs until they "bounce" back. There is no bounce back for people like us. Nobody wants you after you're 50. By the time Obama's recovery plan takes effect, they'll be permanent janitors. Except for me. I've already been there and done that...that's about where I started and I have no interest in repeating the experience. I'm just going to hang on long enough to care for my dog, and when he leaves so do I.

[misanthrope]

31. What about...

...“'You’re fighting despair, discouragement, depression every day,' Mr. Cooper said."

I would think Cooper would be grateful he has a job and isn't living on the street. He can look around him and see those less fortunate everywhere.

"For many of the workers, the psychological adjustment was just as difficult as the financial one, with their sense of identity and self-worth upended."

People in the article said they exhausted savings before finally going out and looking for "any" job. What was holding them back from doing that before they exhausted their emergency funds? Check out the story of the Arlt woman for an example.

Or the Cooper fellow... “There were times I broke down,” Mr. Cooper said. “I broke down thinking, ‘This is what I’ve become.’ ” THIS is what he's become? A guy looking for a job? Who is making an honest living with a job he was fortunate enough to land because a friend with means handed it to him? That sounds fortunate to some. Why is that shameful?

His wife admitted she was initially ashamed of her husband's new job.

I'm not happy they fell. My point is that when people who make a middle class wage like that feel they are so distanced, so "above" others, maybe it's indicative of a greater problem.

[wickerwoman]

37. I'm not sure it implies that people think they are "above" others...

in some cases people made sacrifices which are not paying off.

I spent nine years in college getting a BA and a graduate degree. I worked part-time jobs in factories, retail and farm work while studying full time to pay for a lot of it, but I was still about $30,000 in debt when I graduated. I spent the last ten years busting my ass to pay off my student loans when I could have just defaulted on them. I worked 60-80 hours a week to save up money to pay off student loans, didn't take vacations for years, didn't have any kind of social life, took jobs because I had to not because I wanted them or because they led to where I wanted to go.

And now the degrees which I made a lot of sacrifices to get (and which probably cost in the low six figures) are completely useless. I'm looking at jobs that I could have gotten as a high school dropout. I don't think it makes me a snob to be a little pissed at all that wasted time, energy and money.

I know that many people live their whole lives on factory jobs and don't get an opportunity for something better, but I think you're allowed to be a little extra pissed when you spent nine years, $100,000, and a lot of hard work and stress on something that didn't give you any real benefit. I could have gotten a job at McDonalds after high school, gone out partying every night, done drugs, bought lots of shit I didn't need and I would be in exactly the same position I'm in now. But I would have a lot more shit and I would have enjoyed the last fourteen years a lot more.

[misanthrope]

39. Though I was called "bitter" in the post leading to yours...

...I can't say I harbor what you do or feel as wound up as you do at what seems apparent futility right now.

Here's to hoping you find some value in those years you now view as wasted.

[wickerwoman]

45. Well, assuming you're not unemployed

it's understandable that you don't feel the same bitterness. Doubly so if you're not unemployed after spending years paying off some diplomas which are basically toilet paper in today's economy.

I can read books at home for free. I can participate in engaging discussion online. I spent $100,000 on credentials so that I could get a job that paid a living wage and now I can't even get that.

Fuck yes, I'm bitter. I come from a blue-collar background. I put myself through college. And it's kind of annoying to come on this thread and read about how now, finally, I'm supposed to understand how the other half lives and how they can't just pull themselves up by their bootstraps. I lived it for twenty-two years and busted my ass to get away from it and now I'm back at square one except now I'm apparently a snob who thinks she's better than everyone else. Oh, and I have even less chance of getting a job because I'm over-qualified.

Not everyone who has a college diploma had it handed to them. Not everyone who makes more than $50,000 a year was born into it. And I can find sympathy in my heart for anyone who has worked hard and not seen the fruit of that labor no matter what their tax bracket.

[misanthrope]

48. I'm sorry you're so bitter...

...I have a college education that I still owe money on, am "underemployed" at the moment and have problems with terminal illness. But, it's no one's fault. It's just the way the world is. The universe is neither just nor unjust, merely indifferent.

The four kids I went to high school with who died before they saw their 18th birthdays should be so lucky as to have my problems.

I still fail to see the shame in having to struggle.

[northernlights]

49. their feelings of shame were not in having to struggle

It's recognizing that at $12/hour, you can't feed and house your family. Your house is underwater, so you can't sell. When you end up bankrupt, you won't be able to rent. It's drowning in slow motion.

And because you see all your former colleagues still working, except the ones like you that have "disappeared." So you're thinking it's your own fault, feeling that despite how hard and long you've worked, you've failed, that you are a failure.

When in fact, for years the media was saying rah!rah! the economy is great, when in fact since 2002 it's been a jobless recovery based on fraud. Those of us who were dumped in the 1st Bush recession, and never found a toehold again in any job, were treated like total losers.

I'm glad you have a job. I've worked 18 months in the last 7 years. I was SOOOO grateful for that $10/hour job. Until my rw employer, along with verbally bullying me daily, literally poisoned me, harrassed me in my home, and assaulted my animals. All for $10/hour, not enough to even break even.

When I was laid off back in 2002, I sent out hundreds of resumes and got 3 responses. Since then, hiring managers have sneered at with contempt, screamed at me, and generally been unbelievably nasty. That's when they've even responded to my applications.

You go through 7 years of nonstop rejection, all the while watching everything you worked for go down the toilet. You watch the cars whiz by during rush hour, twice every day. And it's like you don't even effing exist.

I'm sorry you're terminally ill. The fact is we are all terminally ill, it's just some people will be leaving sooner than others. I do hope you at least have medical care.

For me, I'm in clinical depression and constantly battle suicidal tendencies. The only thing that keeps me going is caring for my dog. When he goes, I go. Our society has no use for overeducated, overexperienced, ugly, 50+, single women. And that is a fact.

[wickerwoman]

50. northernlights,

just :hug: thanks so much for your post. It's so easy to feel like the only one.

I sent out four hundred resumes last year, went to seventeen job interviews and... nothing. On the one hand, I'd be happy with a shitty minimum wage job. On the other hand, why is anyone in the richest country in the world put in a position where they have to accept employment that makes minimal use of their talents and pays a subsistence level salary (if that)? Isn't that the question we should all be asking instead of "who does this guy think he is being depressed about losing his job?"

[I Have A Dream]

54. northernlights...

This world needs you more than you know. Please don't give up. :(

:pals:

[cali]

17. 70,000 a year is certainly NOT privileged.

Ridiculous to pick on someone like that. And not very well informed. At all.

[renate]

22. I think this story is really sad

Nobody in this story seems to have ever looked down on anybody else. True, they're having a hard time adjusting to a pay scale they'd once lived above, but I don't think it's fair to assume that they ever thought less of the people who worked for less money in bakeries or liquor stores or as custodians.

I don't take any pleasure in the suffering of people with incomes greater than others'. If I did, I'd also have to take pleasure in an American custodian's losing his job and having to pick through trash like people in less developed countries do. (And right now, since our income is zero, to be consistent I'd then have to be happy for a trash picker to lose their job....)

[misanthrope]

32. The couple mentioned in the story lead...

...stated outright that that both of them were ashamed he is working as a janitor. If that doesn't indicate how they saw themselves and how they saw janitors in relation to them, I don't know what does.

[bertman]

27. It's sad to see someone characterizing these people as "privileged", but then given the

screen name of "misanthrope" it's easier to understand.

These people were no more "privileged" than a skilled technician such as a plumber, electrician, or even a master carpenter. They were working class folks who had good jobs that they apparently trained for and worked hard at. None of them deserves this kind of disparaging treatment.

[S n o w b a l l]

38. Exactly...

thank you.

[Mari333]

30. In Michigan, 70,000 a yr is priveleged

I guess it depends on where you live.

[bertman]

42. Mari, I think you are equating privileged, which means having perks due to rank or standing

or birth, with well-paid. The two are not synonymous and create a false separation between working people of different earnings levels and locales. Even now many of my contemporaries in North Carolina who work in factories would consider union auto workers privileged because they make more money and have more benefits than their non-union counterparts in other places.

Do you consider union autoworkers to be privileged?

[Mari333]

43. no and you are right

but i am equating it to todays economy for one person ..if someone in my town makes 70,000 a yr they are considered very wealthy comparatively..sorry for the misunderstanding.

[bertman]

46. I thought that's what you meant. No problem.

:hi:

[Berry Cool]

34. I am definitely hoping

that these experiences give people in this situation a genuine feeling for what life is like for other people who didn't have the breaks they had...so that if they ever find themselves in a better position again in life, they will use it to make life better for others. For people for whom they perhaps will have greater respect after having walked a mile in their shoes.

[misanthrope]

36. FINALLY!!**nm

**

[readmoreoften]

40. 70K is at the upper-level of working class/middle class. The people in this income range our on our

side--although many of them don't know it because they are ideologically brainwashed. It also depends on where he lives. In NYC, $70K is equivalent to about $25K a year. (I base this on the Forbes analysis that $40K a year is equal to $46K in Dallas and $15K in NYC.)

[Avalux]

52. 70K a year is NOT privileged.

Your disdain for this man who made a reasonable income - certainly not exorbitant - is troubling. He is not a member of ruling class and deserves empathy just like everyone else who has been laid off.